Too much information about the current situation floating around on the internet.

[KhunFred]

It's getting difficult to tell who the real "experts" are. One YouTube channel called "Retire Cheap, Asia" has information linking to a "police order" in both Thai and English and claims that income letters have NEVER been a requirement. He even suggested taking the police order in Thai and giving it to OA.  I shudder to think what the response would be, even if he was right and they were wrong. The guy has been here 18 years but he often goes for the quickest possible answer to a question. I've found ThaiVisa to be full of good information but some posters certainly disagree on visas and extensions of stay. Immigration seems to use lack of clarity as a crutch. I know the usual "love or leave it" explosion is due most any minutes now but NOTHING seems to be in the works as far as petitioning the Embassies and Immigration for a decision. I have until next October but others are in more immediate need of information that they can't get. Items in the newspaper such as the one over the weekend, do not help either. The officer asking expats to call immigration if they are having problems, only makes things crazier. For a while, I at least had the option of a visa service, now they want to make those illegal too, even though one such service invites the public to "see our agent at Immigration".  The situation is like trying to make sense of a Trump press conference.

[Vacuum]

15 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

For a while, I at least had the option of a visa service, now they want to make those illegal too

And why not? Some of their 'services' are illegal.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, KhunFred said:

For a while, I at least had the option of a visa service, now they want to make those illegal too, even though one such service invites the public to "see our agent at Immigration". 

The ads for "no money" / "sponsored" extensions are public.  Everyone who applies in-person has to show "seasoning" on the money, while agent-applications are uniquely exempt from this.  The fact that he said the agents "fool immigration" into thinking the 800K belongs to the applicant leads me to think that system will be around - in one form or another.  I'm surprised he did not burst out laughing even trying to pull off that big whopper  - and maybe he did, and the reporter simply left that out.

 

When you consider how much money is involved, it's hard to imagine the effort necessary to end that system - given the powerful people's lives which would be severely-disrupted if it were.

 

1 hour ago, KhunFred said:

"Retire Cheap, Asia" has information linking to a "police order" in both Thai and English and claims that income letters have NEVER been a requirement.

Yes.  And I can cite the law to an IO in a Bangkok Airport, and they can deny entry because they feel like it.  I find it amazing people don't understand this aspect of the immigration-system - it doesn't matter what the law says, it matters what the person wearing the uniform and/or his superior-officer feels like doing to do.  Unless you are a writer for a major foreign publication, what he does in your case, will be the end of the story - other than perhaps a footnote in a forum-thread on this website or similar. 

 

The only thing holding the entire immigration system from going "Full Somalia" everywhere - at every office and entry-point - is the presence of Good IOs / supervisors, who respect their oaths to uphold the laws of the country - because they care about the welfare and future of their country.  Unfortunately, they are apparently powerless to do anything about the "bad guys" controlling other offices and entry-points.

 

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, KhunFred said:

It's getting difficult to tell who the real "experts" are. One YouTube channel called "Retire Cheap, Asia" has information linking to a "police order" in both Thai and English and claims that income letters have NEVER been a requirement. He even suggested taking the police order in Thai and giving it to OA.

The published police orders do not state that "income letters" are required. But immigration decided at some point in the past that "income letters" would be the only acceptable way to meet the requirement of proof of income.

 

Showing the police order to immigration would not help. And if this person were an "expert" they would know that additional orders are often issued and not necessarily published in the public domain. The police orders are only useful to understand the types of extensions available. The documents etc. required to get the extension can/do change/vary.

 

The embassy income letter requirement was published on a old immigration webpage;

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq

22. Question : What is the required age of the alien wisthing to stay in Thailand with the reason of Retirement?

[snip]
         2.2  In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare
     -  Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. Or;
[snip]

Edited December 20, 2018 by elviajero

[KhunFred]

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The ads for "no money" / "sponsored" extensions are public.  Everyone who applies in-person has to show "seasoning" on the money, while agent-applications are uniquely exempt from this.  The fact that he said the agents "fool immigration" into thinking the 800K belongs to the applicant leads me to think that system will be around - in one form or another.  I'm surprised he did not burst out laughing even trying to pull off that big whopper  - and maybe he did, and the reporter simply left that out.

 

When you consider how much money is involved, it's hard to imagine the effort necessary to end that system - given the powerful people's lives which would be severely-disrupted if it were.

 

Yes.  And I can cite the law to an IO in a Bangkok Airport, and they can deny entry because they feel like it.  I find it amazing people don't understand this aspect of the immigration-system - it doesn't matter what the law says, it matters what the person wearing the uniform and/or his superior-officer feels like doing to do.  Unless you are a writer for a major foreign publication, what he does in your case, will be the end of the story - other than perhaps a footnote in a forum-thread on this website or similar. 

 

The only thing holding the entire immigration system from going "Full Somalia" everywhere - at every office and entry-point - is the presence of Good IOs / supervisors, who respect their oaths to uphold the laws of the country - because they care about the welfare and future of their country.  Unfortunately, they are apparently powerless to do anything about the "bad guys" controlling other offices and entry-points.

 

Best comment I have read lately. Reading the "law" to an official is asking for trouble.

[Spidey]

Watched the " Retire Cheap in Thailand" video when it was first posted. The guy is a B.S. artist. Told him so in the comments section of the Vlog. Also told him that he was a douchbag as, if people believed his BS, they could find themselves in deep doggy doo when they came to renew their visas.

 

Just another lowlife Thai Vlogger.

[sqwakvfr]

“RetireCheapJC” was first RetireCheapAsia.  He has been on YouTube for almost ten years.  He was the first person(that I can recall) who started the entire “you can live in Thailand for $500 per month” myth.  At times his videos are entertaining but the reality of living in Thailand is often different than what he portrays.  

[KhunFred]

52 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

“RetireCheapJC” was first RetireCheapAsia.  He has been on YouTube for almost ten years.  He was the first person(that I can recall) who started the entire “you can live in Thailand for $500 per month” myth.  At times his videos are entertaining but the reality of living in Thailand is often different than what he portrays.  

Existing on 500 USD a month and LIVING are two entirely different things. My fiancee has been living here on 300 dollars a month for quite some time. A previous girlfriend lived on 500 dollars a month. NOT much of a life. It CAN be done, but you sure as hell won't LIKE it. You simply could not live in America on that amount without government subsidies such as food stamps and Section 8 housing.

[jesimps]

I thought the guy responsible for this thread spoke with a lot of sense........then I read the last sentence. The lefties just can't resist it. Probably belongs to Democrats Abroad.

[Spidey]

29 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Existing on 500 USD a month and LIVING are two entirely different things. My fiancee has been living here on 300 dollars a month for quite some time. A previous girlfriend lived on 500 dollars a month. NOT much of a life. It CAN be done, but you sure as hell won't LIKE it. You simply could not live in America on that amount without government subsidies such as food stamps and Section 8 housing.

For a girl living in Issan with her family $300 is fine. She can live and support her family quite comfortably with that. $500 makes you an ATM, considerably more than a full time job would pay her. Glad to see that you're learning.

[digger70]

You want to be smart? go to you're local Imm office only and only deal with them ,then you know for sure what they want  an supply them with what they say they need. works for me ,no probs.

[Spidey]

Just now, digger70 said:

You want to be smart? go to you're local Imm office only and only deal with them ,then you know for sure what they want  an supply them with what they say they need. works for me ,no probs.

So what does your IO say they need?

[digger70]

10 minutes ago, Spidey said:

So what does your IO say they need?

What I have been doing for years ,Giving them all the papers they want and then sometimes they want an extra 1 or 2 . I have been using the THB800K  all the time, Letter from the bank , works out perfect for me.

[KhunFred]

9 hours ago, digger70 said:

What I have been doing for years ,Giving them all the papers they want and then sometimes they want an extra 1 or 2 . I have been using the THB800K  all the time, Letter from the bank , works out perfect for me.

Another "I have 800 thousand baht to idle" post. This crowd never stops reminding those of us on a perfectly good fixed income, that they have a lot more money than we do. Why is this elitism necessary? You are NOT Thai. I'm happy you have that whopping lump sum, but MOST expats do not. Some are even suggesting that the monthly income method should end and only the wealthy should be granted the right to live here. 

[John7777]

I check in on these threads once in a while. I take it that nothing has been clarified so far?  No official guidance on how those with the requisite monthly income can prove that to the satisfaction of Immigration? 

 

While I agree that 800,000 baht isn't all that much, I can see where those already living in Thailand on a fixed income might have some difficulty coming up with the lump sum in a short period of time. 

[matador007]

14 hours ago, KhunFred said:

Existing on 500 USD a month and LIVING are two entirely different things. My fiancee has been living here on 300 dollars a month for quite some time. A previous girlfriend lived on 500 dollars a month. NOT much of a life. It CAN be done, but you sure as hell won't LIKE it. You simply could not live in America on that amount without government subsidies such as food stamps and Section 8 housing.

I agree with you both.  I have been watching 'JC' for a while, and I don't believe he is saying one should or should not live on ___ budget monthly.
I believe he is just putting information out there, a lot of sharing of prices of things in different parts of Thailand (and also good series on various Vietnam cities).

 

His videos cater in part to the American Pensioner, living that equivalent 300-500/mo. existance in America on their $1000 or so monthly pension.  If you sorta get what I mean.  So I believe he's showing those folks a way to get a better living out of said finances.
 

A lot of people struggling in America, but changing Countries and life not for everyone.

http://www.pensionrights.org/publications/statistic/income-pensions

Not sure how folks survive on 10-15k/year in the US.

 

Anyway, Happy Holidays and a great 2019 to everyone!

[BertM]

2 hours ago, matador007 said:

 

Not sure how folks survive on 10-15k/year in the US.

 

Anyway, Happy Holidays and a great 2019 to everyone!

Most on that income in US have government support; welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, Sec 8 housing, etc. I didn't watch that video, but I don't know how an expat could live on 300, 500 or 1,000 per month USD in Thailand having to pay rent, elec, water, food, AIS, immigration fees, transportation, etc. So, for US citizens, I think the video would be very misleading. Since no more income affidavits to falsify income a single person on 10 to 15k USD per year income would not qualify for retirement extension. And, Thailand doesn't provide government support to expats like US does. 

Edited December 21, 2018 by BertM

[bkk6060]

9 hours ago, KhunFred said:

Another "I have 800 thousand baht to idle" post. This crowd never stops reminding those of us on a perfectly good fixed income, that they have a lot more money than we do. Why is this elitism necessary? You are NOT Thai. I'm happy you have that whopping lump sum, but MOST expats do not. Some are even suggesting that the monthly income method should end and only the wealthy should be granted the right to live here. 

Sorry, but If one comes from any developed country in the world $25,000 is not a lot of money.

Especially, if they are over 50.

I agree with the guy.  What have you been doing?

There may be a few hardships that caused financial issues but most of us had 30 years of working to save a few bucks.

And I got to say the males that I know who do not have it wasted money, got several divorces, never tried to save, never tried to better themselves and kept crappy jobs because they were lazy, were in jail or prison for a length of time, etc. etc.

It is just low to attack those of us who planned financially and tried to do things right.

[samsensam]

6 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Sorry, but If one comes from any developed country in the world $25,000 is not a lot of money.

Especially, if they are over 50.

I agree with the guy.  What have you been doing?

There may be a few hardships that caused financial issues but most of us had 30 years of working to save a few bucks.

And I got to say the males that I know who do not have it wasted money, got several divorces, never tried to save, never tried to better themselves and kept crappy jobs because they were lazy, were in jail or prison for a length of time, etc. etc.

It is just low to attack those of us who planned financially and tried to do things right.

 

have to agree, there's nothing boastful about having 800K baht.

[JLCrab]

I will just hope for persons like Fred, who have been using the monthly income route to extension for years but would be hard-pressed to come up with the 800K lump sum, that some reasonable workable semblance of the same monthly deposit route will be in place next year with the folks at IMM presumably realizing that the bunco artists are already circling on that possibility.

Edited December 22, 2018 by JLCrab

[GeorgeCross]

10 hours ago, KhunFred said:

Some are even suggesting that the monthly income method should end and only the wealthy should be granted the right to live here. 

 

wouldn't surprise me, they didn't want backpackers or the unmarried/jobless/NOT WEALTHY under 50s either

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

wouldn't surprise me, they didn't want backpackers or the unmarried/jobless/NOT WEALTHY under 50s either

Oh they want those, but only as short term tourists. Conversely they don't want them living here long term pretending to be tourists.

[digger70]

16 hours ago, KhunFred said:

Another "I have 800 thousand baht to idle" post. This crowd never stops reminding those of us on a perfectly good fixed income, that they have a lot more money than we do. Why is this elitism necessary? You are NOT Thai. I'm happy you have that whopping lump sum, but MOST expats do not. Some are even suggesting that the monthly income method should end and only the wealthy should be granted the right to live here. 

Listen here fella I made sure that I had the THB 800 K Before I came to Thailand .I have just  Enough money from my pension to survive in Thailand . My pension is from Australia and it ain't much. this makes me not a HI So but  a person just surviving on my pension. Before you say something about me, ask first if  you don't know. Have a nice day  ???? 

[KhunFred]

41 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Listen here fella I made sure that I had the THB 800 K Before I came to Thailand .I have just  Enough money from my pension to survive in Thailand . My pension is from Australia and it ain't much. this makes me not a HI So but  a person just surviving on my pension. Before you say something about me, ask first if  you don't know. Have a nice day  ???? 

If you have 800 thousand baht to put in a Thai account, you are in much better shape financially than I have ever been. I have ALWAYS lived paycheck to paycheck. My savings were pumped into an annuity and State Teacher's Retirement plan. there is no "lump sum" option with those, you get a guaranteed amount for life just like Social Security. You have an awfully hot temper and a tendency to take things personally. This forum has been stacked to the rafters with people talking about their "lump sum" methods and the monthly retirees tend to be looked down on. Low income all of your life is not something I would recommend, but I was not smart enough to be a doctor or an attorney. I've also had medical issues that nearly killed me twice, and STILL I have to deal with the posters who say:  "it's your own FAULT mate, for not coming here with 800 thousand baht" . This gets VERY old, VERY quickly. I apologise for your quick temper.

Edited December 22, 2018 by KhunFred

[JLCrab]

I will just say on behalf of Fred that I believe his annuity comes through TIAA 'Teachers-fund' which was founded by Andrew Carnegie in 1918 and is one of the largest financial institutions in the world with over $US one trillion under management. So whether he has the 800K baht lump sum or not, that is nothing to sneer at.

[KhunFred]

Thanks, JLCrab, but the annuity is extremely small. MOST of my money comes from Social Security and the Retirement Systems of Alabama. All together, these monthly lifetime payments amount to slightly under 80 thousand baht. Crap pay in the United States but certainly envied by many here. TIAA is unlikely to go bankrupt anymore than my state retirement or Social Security. The forms they provided, showing my monthly income are no more complex than the "income letter" provided previously by my Embassy. Same situation with the state retirement payments. Just numbers in black and white that need little translation.

 

[JLCrab]

38 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Thanks, JLCrab, but the annuity is extremely small.

Well OK but I know them from my Oil&Gas days in the 1980's and they were big players in domestic exploration and still are.

 

As for how the 65K+ baht monthly scheme might be handled under the supposed to be new Police Order, I'll just wait and see.

Edited December 22, 2018 by JLCrab

[tabarin]

2 hours ago, KhunFred said:

If you have 800 thousand baht to put in a Thai account, you are in much better shape financially than I have ever been. I have ALWAYS lived paycheck to paycheck. My savings were pumped into an annuity and State Teacher's Retirement plan. there is no "lump sum" option with those, you get a guaranteed amount for life just like Social Security. You have an awfully hot temper and a tendency to take things personally. This forum has been stacked to the rafters with people talking about their "lump sum" methods and the monthly retirees tend to be looked down on. Low income all of your life is not something I would recommend, but I was not smart enough to be a doctor or an attorney. I've also had medical issues that nearly killed me twice, and STILL I have to deal with the posters who say:  "it's your own FAULT mate, for not coming here with 800 thousand baht" . This gets VERY old, VERY quickly. I apologise for your quick temper.

Because you don't own your mistakes and hide behind misery. Anyone will have misery in life and can save 800k baht over a full working life. We are talking about merely saving 50-100$ a month or having some profit after selling a house or asset.

That the requirement is annoying is one thing but to blame problems in life over not having that money at retirement age is another subject.

Edited December 22, 2018 by tabarin

[JLCrab]

When I first moved to Thailand in 2004, guys would drive to the Nong Khai bridge, buy a Lao visa, make the U-turn and come back with a 30 day visa exempt for years on end. Their biggest problem was needing a new passport with a minimum 12 entries and exits every year. You could also bring back enough cigarettes and liquor those days from the Lao duty free shop near the bridge to make the trip at a profit.

 

For at least 10 years now I have used the embassy income affidavit method for extension of stay via retirement. Hopefully the monthly income (as the word is used in the current Police Order) method in some form or another will continue. But it was never the case until maybe just now that someone of retirement age HAD to have a lump sum 800K baht on hand for a retirement extension and, hopefully, after things sort out, that will continue to be the case.

Edited December 22, 2018 by JLCrab

[KiChakayan]

18 hours ago, John7777 said:

While I agree that 800,000 baht isn't all that much, I can see where those already living in Thailand on a fixed income might have some difficulty coming up with the lump sum in a short period of time. 

Possibly the most sensible post I have read on these "Letter of income" threads. This 800000 Bahts class struggle has been pretty ridiculous.

Should mention here the talk show with the US Consul General. Highly sensible and likeable gentleman too.