Interview with US Consul from BKK re visas in Thailand

[TommyDee]

posting this as may be of interest.  we interviews the US Consular General, and current Deputy Ambassador this week.  This is a recording that includes discussion Thai visas for americans, but also anyone else in many cases.  

 

[stoney79]

Good one.

[AGareth2]

so 

in a Thai bank

[DrJack54]

Thanks OP, I'm having a nice chuckle. Is that a real interview or comedy sketch.

[siddv]

This whole "pension"  thing is outdated anyways. Fewer and fewer retirees rely on "pensions." Rather we now have 401K and investment accounts in our home countries from which we draw " as needed". This is likely beyond the comprehension of IO. Also more recent retirees do not necessarily have wives or SO that we are supporting in Thailand. Thus the reluctance to deposit large sums in our Thai bank accounts as surviving family may have considerable difficulty accessing those accounts later. However seems this will be the only recourse. 

[Danthai]

No mention of combination method. Money in bank aand monthly transfer, Guess we have to wait for changes.

[mfd101]

1 minute ago, Danthai said:

No mention of combination method. Money in bank aand monthly transfer, Guess we have to wait for changes.

Watch the video! It's all there!

[skatewash]

Good interview between Tommy Dee (TD) of Pattaya 103 FM and Tim Scherer (TS), the Consul General (and acting Deputy Ambassador -- #2 person) at the American Embassy Bangkok.

Worth watching in its entirety, but if you're interested only in the extension of stay news here's a summary of the salient information:

The Consul General has seen a draft Immigration Police order regarding the new extension of stay rules.  He expects the draft to be approved (and at one point indicated it was already signed off on by Police Commissioner Surachate "Big Joke" Hakparn) and released in the next few weeks (early January was mentioned).   Asked if this was 100% guaranteed he said no, but at the working level it is assumed that what was in the draft will be approved by early January (34:00 mark in the video).

Although details about the new process were not discussed he did indicate that all three of the current methods will be preserved in some form:  annual lump sum bank method (no changes here),  monthly bank method (formerly called the income method), and the combo method (combination of both of the previous methods).  It appears that they will only be interested in documentation from Thai banks showing actual amounts deposited.  He did not share any details about the specifics of how this would work.  This is discussed at about the 22:00 mark in the video.
 

[Danthai]

4 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Watch the video! It's all there!

As he said changes have not come down to immigration in form of police order. so we have to wait and see.

[TommyDee]

10 minutes ago, Danthai said:

No mention of combination method. Money in bank aand monthly transfer, Guess we have to wait for changes.

that was a question that a Thai Visa member sent us, I posed it later sorry, its in there toward the last 25%

 

 

and the mix of the two is to be acceptable

[Pattaya46]

3 minutes ago, Danthai said:

As he said changes have not come down to immigration in form of police order. SWomwe have to wait and see.

I am unsure why they would like to modify the Police order ?? There is no reference to Embassy Letter inside, so they would just need to modify Thai Immigration internal regulations. A lot easier to do than modifying a Police order that must be approved by the minister!

[Danthai]

Only thing that crossed my mind is maybe they are going to change many parts of the police order which could be good or bad for everyone. Only time will tell. 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

I am unsure why they would like to modify the Police order ?? There is no reference to Embassy Letter inside, so they would just need to modify Thai Immigration internal regulations. A lot easier to do than modifying a Police order that must be approved by the minister!

I think it is in very old police order or a ministerial order going back to when extensions based upon income first started that is more than a internal regulation.

[skatewash]

24 minutes ago, TommyDee said:

that was a question that a Thai Visa member sent us, I posed it later sorry, its in there toward the last 25%

 

 

and the mix of the two is to be acceptable

Yes, this is covered in the discussion at around the 34:00 mark.

[skatewash]

23 minutes ago, Danthai said:

Only thing that crossed my mind is maybe they are going to change many parts of the police order which could be good or bad for everyone. Only time will tell. 

A few interesting things the Consul General said about this:

 

1) There were no changes in the draft police order regarding the amounts necessary (so 40,000/400,000 for marriage and 65,000/800,000 baht for retirement).

2) There were no changes to the lump sum bank method.  The changes are to the income method which now sounds like it is really a monthly bank method where amounts would need to be shown in a Thai bank account.  The combo method was still offered in the draft police order according to the Consul General.  Now, how these latter two options will work in detail was not something that was discussed in the video.

I had the impression from what the Consul General said that the draft police order did not open a Pandora's Box of additional changes other than those indicated already.  The basic shift is a reliance on only Thai (bank) documentation to prove actual deposits and away from income streams.  As always the devil is in the details and it sounds like we might start to hear about the details in the next few weeks (early January timeframe).

The good news was that all three existing methods are envisioned by the draft police order to continue in some form.  What form that will take in the case of the monthly bank method is, of course, what interests everyone and what we don't really have any details about yet.

[4myr]

I'm afraid that the new police order will apply to all expats, even for the ones with verified income abroad by their respective embassies like Netherlands and Germany.

 

Here the current police order, section 2.22 in case of retirement: "The alien:
(1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM). 
(2) Must be 50 years of age or over. 
(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; or 
(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than 
Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a 
deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to 
the filing date; or 
(5) Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totaling no less than Baht 
800,000 as of the filin
g date.
(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively 
permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria: 
 (a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in 
a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have a monthly income of 
no less than Baht 20,000. 
(b) If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual fixed 
income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 
500,000 or have a monthl
y income of no less than Baht 50,000."

[JLCrab]

35 minutes ago, skatewash said:

The good news was that

The good news is that it seems pretty safe that there will be a new Police Order early next year and that it likely has already passed the required Minister's muster.

 

Then, once announced, we can look forward to the posts on here as to how stupid was the person or persons who put this new Police Order together -- I mean why should the comments to follow on here be different from anything else Immigration does.

[garyk]

Those numbers are way higher than I ever dreamed!

75K  known American's

UK, Australia, conservative number IMO would be another 75K.

 

That would guarantee over 8/10's of one percent into the Thai banks of the TOTAL GDP of Thailand.

Or about Three billion seven hundred and fifty million U.S. dollars. 3,750,000,000

Thailands total GDP is about 455 billion dollars.

 

 

Just to put this in dollars and cents if interested.

Those are staggering numbers?

 

[mfd101]

51 minutes ago, garyk said:

Those numbers are way higher than I ever dreamed!

75K  known American's

UK, Australia, conservative number IMO would be another 75K.

 

That would guarantee over 8/10's of one percent into the Thai banks of the TOTAL GDP of Thailand.

Or about Three billion seven hundred and fifty million U.S. dollars. 3,750,000,000

Thailands total GDP is about 455 billion dollars.

 

 

Just to put this in dollars and cents if interested.

Those are staggering numbers?

 

Which rather suggests that the idea that the Thais want to get rid of us all is (probably) false.

[garyk]

5 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Which rather suggests that the idea that the Thais want to get rid of us all is (probably) false.

Yup! They will milk this cow until dry.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, 4myr said:

I'm afraid that the new police order will apply to all expats, even for the ones with verified income abroad by their respective embassies like Netherlands and Germany.

Good point...it could very well turn out to be that way.  In fact, I bet it will.   

 

Embassy income letters could become a thing of the past which means Thai immigration will rely on Thai bank documentation only such as the bank letter saying you have X-amount on deposit and/or a passbook/bank statement showing X-amount flowing into your Thai bank account monthly.  All types of foreign income docs showing monthly income, pension payment, investment income, rental income, etc....etc...etc would not be acceptable.  Instead, only Thai bank documentation is acceptable.   The KISS principle.

 

I think that sucks for folks who would totally or partially use the monthly income method (I don't but use the Bt800K in the bank method), but do not want 65K/40K monthly income flowing into a Thai bank...instead, want it to continue to flow to their home country bank account.

 

[JackThompson]

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

I think that sucks for folks who would totally or partially use the monthly income method (I don't but use the Bt800K in the bank method), but do not want 65K/40K monthly income flowing into a Thai bank...instead, want it to continue to flow to their home country bank account.

Because the minimums must be xferred here, that may make it difficult for folks to handle paying passport-country expenses.  One solution is to pay directly out of one's Thai account - such as with a Visa/MC Debit card. 

 

To replenish foreign-accounts for other cases, some less-expensive solutions are Dee-Money, and Bitcoin/Crypto currencies - buy it out of a Thai account and immediately sell it into one's foreign account.

 

No doubt this change will cause some extra cost and headaches, but could save some folks from having to pull up stakes move unhappily to another country.

[skatewash]

I think the following is the key exchange from the video discussion (starting at the 34:00 mark):

 

Tommy Dee (TD): There was a third option which is the combination of money in a Thai bank and a monthly income adding up to a certain balance.  Is that still going to be accepted under these new regulations?

 

Tim Scherer, Consul General US Embassy Bangkok (TS): Excellent question. So, the draft police order we have seen does, in fact, preserve that third option, we might call the combo option.

 

TD: OK, let's just get this. "Preserves," what's that mean? It's still in? 

 

TS: It's still in.

 

TD: It's still a deal?

 

TS: It's still there.  So, the last draft we saw still had it. It's still a deal, basically.

 

TD: OK, you've only seen a draft?  You're not worried about this?  It's a draft, it's not like it's black and white.  Or is it guaranteed that that's the way it's going to be? 

 

TS: Not a hundred percent guaranteed, but we've heard that Police Commissioner Surachate [Surachate "Big Joke" Hakparn] has in fact signed off on it.  So, at the working level, we're told that the draft that we've seen will, in fact, become reality in early January.

 

TD: Ok. So, the deal is that it's either 65,000 baht a month going into a Thai bank account...

 

TS: Thai bank account, that's a change...

 

TD: or 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account for at least three months, or more...

 

TS: Thai bank account, again...

 

TD: or a combination of the two that adds up to a certain figure that we're not quite sure what that would be...

 

TS: That's correct. If you want to check the actual figure, the figures haven't changed, you can go to the Thai Immigration Bureau website at www.immigration.go.th and they have an English explanation.

 

TD: OK, but obviously this is still provisional, it's going to be approved early next year...

 

TS: Correct, correct.  But we've been assured that the draft we've seen, will in the basic amounts, indeed will be preserved, will continue on, in the new order.

 

TD: OK, fair answer.  Glad to see you knew the answer to that one...

[BritTim]

If I had an appointment for an income affidavit at the US Embassy between now and New Year, I would have been very interested in the question of what happens if consular services are suspended as a result of the looming government shutdown.

[farangx]

3 hours ago, garyk said:

Those numbers are way higher than I ever dreamed!

75K  known American's

UK, Australia, conservative number IMO would be another 75K.

 

That would guarantee over 8/10's of one percent into the Thai banks of the TOTAL GDP of Thailand.

Or about Three billion seven hundred and fifty million U.S. dollars. 3,750,000,000

 

Taking into account the agents used to provide the 800K as some of them staked their lives on in some of the threads here, the final number might be around 2,000,000,000.  Forget about the Thai banks, money sitting inside them is much much more ....

 

[farangx]

2 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Which rather suggests that the idea that the Thais want to get rid of us all is (probably) false.

There was a lot of panic, fear, end of the world that kind of nonsense, very unreasonable.  Some retirees are rather fragile, have nothing better to do, don't get off the couch much.  It is understandable .... ????

 

[mfd101]

4 hours ago, 4myr said:

I'm afraid that the new police order will apply to all expats, even for the ones with verified income abroad by their respective embassies like Netherlands and Germany.

On the KISS principle - and noting how easy it is to get just about everyone, on either side of the desk, ranting & raving & losing all perspective - it seems pretty unlikely that TI are going to have one system for the Anglophones & Danes, and another for everyone else ...

[Pattaya46]

So in short, many expats of many countries could soon be in trouble because the USA Embassy decided to stop emitting "Embassy Letters" and persuaded Thai Immigration to modify its rules to adapt to this decision... 

[garyk]

4 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

So in short, many expats of many countries could soon be in trouble because the USA Embassy decided to stop emitting "Embassy Letters" and persuaded Thai Immigration to modify its rules to adapt to this decision... 

Head over to Cambodia, they have a barstool there with your name on it... haha

[Longcut]

8 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

So in short, many expats of many countries could soon be in trouble because the USA Embassy decided to stop emitting "Embassy Letters" and persuaded Thai Immigration to modify its rules to adapt to this decision... 

The USA wasn't the first to initiate this.