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Refused an extension for 55 satang ( Retirement )


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9 minutes ago, Bigstef said:

The 800k does it need to be in bank account absolutely or it could in a mutual fund in a Thai bank ?

After watching the market for the past week I'm glad mine is in the bank.  You can use a fixed deposit account.  It is not big bucks.  A 50% increase in interest on peanuts is still peanuts.  How much can you make in 90 days on 20 grand? 

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9 minutes ago, happy chappie said:

Like I said in my earlier posts.ive cancelled my retirement visa and putting it to work and will be returning 12,000b a month.my circumstances are different to many others.i go to uk a couple of times a year.i live near the laos border so get 60day visa and 60 day extensions based on marriage from udon immigration.when I came here in 2005 800,000 could buy you nearly double of what it could today.at that rate by 2030 the 800,000 will be worth just over 400,000.with global markets in turmoil the last thing to do is let funds deprecate or rotting like mine was.

If you would have put 800,000 in the bank when you came here in 2005 and left it there considering the interest on a fixed deposit account and the dive of the pound one wonders if you would have been better off?

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28 minutes ago, happy chappie said:

Like I said in my earlier posts.ive cancelled my retirement visa and putting it to work and will be returning 12,000b a month.my circumstances are different to many others.i go to uk a couple of times a year.i live near the laos border so get 60day visa and 60 day extensions based on marriage from udon immigration.when I came here in 2005 800,000 could buy you nearly double of what it could today.at that rate by 2030 the 800,000 will be worth just over 400,000.with global markets in turmoil the last thing to do is let funds deprecate or rotting like mine was.

I get the point of what you are saying, it is also understandable this 800K can be increased to 1 million or 1.2 million due to inflation etc.  If you left that 800K in the bank untouched since 2005, how much would that have netted you today?  But as a foreigner living here with funds in a foreign currency, exchange rates and bank fees becomes part of the cost of living.  If forex swings affect you then you need to hedge against that to make your baht worth. 

 

Edited by farangx
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5 minutes ago, farangx said:

I get the point of what you are saying, it is also understandable this 800K can be increased to 1 million or 1.2 million due to inflation etc.  But as a foreigner living here with funds from a foreign currency, exchange rates and bank fees becomes part of the cost of living.  If forex swings affect you then you need to hedge against that to make your baht worth.

Yes and if they do raise it then it's only going to create more problems for a lot of retired people.lets face it the whole scheme is a mess.living here married with kids and only have to keep 400,000 or equivalent or retired alone and having to have 800,000 or equivalent.where is the sense in that.

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17 minutes ago, happy chappie said:

Yes and if they do raise it then it's only going to create more problems for a lot of retired people.lets face it the whole scheme is a mess.living here married with kids and only have to keep 400,000 or equivalent or retired alone and having to have 800,000 or equivalent.where is the sense in that.

If I make the rules here, then I will have only the 800K funding for retirement.  This makes it simple for everybody.

 

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1 hour ago, Robins said:

Just as absurd, they could have let him go to the bank, deposit 100 Baht then come back.  When someone in authority behaves in the manner claimed by the OP it has little to do with the requirements.  If a cop cites you for 26 in a 25 zone, there's something wrong with the cop, not you.  

Agree with the sentiment - but as I understand it, he was over the minimum when he applied.  They refused him based on applying today's rate to his income, and adding this to a bank-balance months back - though the exchange-rate on his income was higher back then. 

 

So, he was over the minimum at the time of the lower bank-balance, and has remained over the limit - if evaluated daily - though today.  Given they were looking at a past bank-balance to find-fault, it seems they could have done the conversion-calculation based on what his income was worth in Baht during the time in question.

 

As I see it, at some offices, each "in person" application is a question of "Do we have to let this foreigner do this, or can we force an agent-payoff out of him?"  Many requirements, including the financials, become moot - as soon as agent-money enters the picture.

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12 hours ago, happy chappie said:

the money would be better off in a long term fixed account

Rates here are fractionally higher than in my home country. I also have the option of keeping the 800k in a Thai bank foreign currency account, or in a longer term fixed deposit, and it still qualifies for a retirement extension.

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Thanks for all the replies everyone, mostly supportive. 

I made the title what it is for purposes of drama, the fact is that is what the difference is between the google quoted exchange rate on the day and what immigration said would be acceptable, but I believe the rate they used was even less than 41 as some people here have alluded to. I must admit that never occurred to me when calculating how much I really needed in the bank to cover all or most eventualities.

I accept my stupidity is at fault.

Next week my wife and I will go to the other office here and try to have a reasonable face to face and see how they react to my request for a marriage visa, and this time it will be money in bank and no p1ssing about with poxy income letters and exchange rates.

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24 minutes ago, OneeyedJohn said:

Next week my wife and I will go to the other office here and try to have a reasonable face to face and see how they react to my request for a marriage visa, and this time it will be money in bank and no p1ssing about with poxy income letters and exchange rates.

Given what a PITA family-based extensions can be, depending on the office (witnesses, home-visits, 30-day waiting period, wife-interrogations), you might want to give them the option of either.   Since you have the marriage-option, they would gain only more trouble for themselves - not any extra tea-money - by making an issue over such a small discrepancy. 

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22 hours ago, happy chappie said:

All the more reason and a good excuse to move to Vietnam.i wish I had of travelled around a bit more before settling down in Thailand.i gave up my retirement visa this week as I don't want to be held to ransom with 800,000 trickling away with inflation when it will be put to good use building two more apartments and giving me a return of 12,000b a month.this country seems to be on a self destruct mission if you ask me.

I reckon your feelings are those of many expats living here in Thailand but many have burnt their bridges . I have the 800k for retirement extension which expires in 4 months , have not bothered to do the proof of earnings from the B.E. having witnessed a falangs P.O.I. paperwork being scrutinised / interrogated by T.I. , plus the goal posts will probably be moved again when it suits them . As for waiting for an announcement from the T.I. on new rules for P.O.I. , I am not holding my breath as I think it will not happen .

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24 minutes ago, OneeyedJohn said:

Thanks for all the replies everyone, mostly supportive. 

I made the title what it is for purposes of drama, the fact is that is what the difference is between the google quoted exchange rate on the day and what immigration said would be acceptable, but I believe the rate they used was even less than 41 as some people here have alluded to. I must admit that never occurred to me when calculating how much I really needed in the bank to cover all or most eventualities.

I accept my stupidity is at fault.

Next week my wife and I will go to the other office here and try to have a reasonable face to face and see how they react to my request for a marriage visa, and this time it will be money in bank and no p1ssing about with poxy income letters and exchange rates.

You have learned the hard way that you cannot use any rate other than what Thai banks are giving.

For example here is the rate shown for today on a currency calculator.

image.png.e9f3fdcc8476ebe4ffda145e227a624d.png

Here is a graph from Bangkok Banks website. The telex transfer (TT) rate would be about 50 satang more.

image.png.0b085ddb74ba50afc0c992cdd03b84fa.png

Source: https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/View-Rates/Foreign-Exchange-Rates

 

You should not have a problem changing to an extension based upon marriage as long as you do not show 800k baht in the bank or more and if you have had more than 400k baht for the past 2 months.

My general list of required documents are here for the application is here. Marriage Extension Requirements 2.pdf

 

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16 minutes ago, superal said:

As for waiting for an announcement from the T.I. on new rules for P.O.I. , I am not holding my breath as I think it will not happen .

I was similarly skeptical, until the interview from the US Consul came out, where he said he had seen a draft of the new police-order, that it had been approved by the head of immigration, and that the primary difference is that incomes will need to be shown as deposited in a Thai bank.  I know they (embassy, immigration, etc) are quite capable of bs-ing us, but that seemed a bit too specific. 

 

Of course, there may be other stipulations in that order - or in IOs interpretations of it - which throw a monkey-wrench into the income-method to push agent-use.  We have to wait and see on the Police-Order, then again for reports to trickle in from every immigration-office, to see how it "really works" at each of them (which can, of course, change over time).

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14 minutes ago, JLCrab said:
1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Of course, there may be other stipulations in that order

Yes and 'stipulations' might also be referred to as anti-fraud measures.

Or "force a good percentage to use an agent even if legit" measures.  The history of past so-called "crackdowns" would indicate this is a possibility.

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2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Or "force a good percentage to use an agent even if legit" measures. 

So what -- I would say the overwhelming percentage of those who used the soon-to-be prior income affidavit actually had the 65K+ baht monthly income claimed and it probably would be the same if a new monthly bank deposit-type extension were to be implemented.

 

But nice of you as per usual to be looking out for interests of the agent contingent.

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On 12/22/2018 at 5:03 AM, happy chappie said:

Ive just built two 50sqm quality finished and furnished  apartments by my pool and both rented the week they were completed for 1.2 million and a return of 17,000b a month.sod keeping the money in the bank and don't need the visa as I live near a border and bounce between 60 day extensions based on marriage and plan to go uk in warmer months and do some work.the 800,000 is dead money ticking away daily.im really not a fan of banks and their schemes.immigration were scratching their heads last week when I stopped my retirement visa as I had the funds but just said can I have a 60 extention.i know it's different for other people stay long term here but it don't work for me locking up £20,000 that can be put to good use.

Hi,just curious how many 60days extensions based on marriage can you get in a row or and per year?

 

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On 12/22/2018 at 1:43 PM, DrJack54 said:

Might be a warning for UK folk with "no deal exit" coming soon. Pound won't be climbing any time soon. 

Maybe if Australia and Britain joined currencies and come up with some new currency. Call it " The Shyster"

And set the rate at 2 Shysters to the Pound.

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6 minutes ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

Hi,just curious how many 60days extensions based on marriage can you get in a row or and per year?

 

You can get one 60 day extension per entry with no limits imposed on getting another one after getting a new entry.

Really no different than getting 30 day extensions for 60 day entries from tourist visas.

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On 12/22/2018 at 9:22 AM, DeeMak9 said:

They have to set a limit. A limit is a limit. Ive ran an all-you-can eat restaurant in the past (don't go into this business LOL), and kids under 110CM were free. Countless times we had parents in outrage when their kids were higher than 110CM, but did not get to eat for free.

 

In the OP his case, make sure you always have space. A little extra saving money would save you from this trouble, even when the sterling drops like a stone. You can always combine savings and income.

Having a ride at a fairground is very different to ruining someones life. Seasoning is discretionary anyway so there is flexibility but its just that as the OP put it wonkers.... are so up their own bum and hating every foreigner they love making things hard.

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49 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

So what -- I would say the overwhelming percentage of those who used the soon-to-be prior income affidavit actually had the 65K+ baht monthly income claimed and it probably would be the same if a new monthly bank deposit-type extension were to be implemented.

 

But nice of you as per usual to be looking out for interests of the agent contingent.

It is immigration who "looks after" the agent-system - as I learned first hand, with every required document, proof of income (embassy-letter PLUS a bank-book showing the deposits, etc).  I hate the agent-system, for that very reason. 

 

Good luck to a large percentage of legit, former embassy-letter users, if their "anti-fraud" measures turn out to be "Showing a Govt-Pension Letter" as the only acceptable "backup evidence" to a bank-statement showing the required deposits (which you and I are both making, in hopes that will be enough).

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I feel for the farangs who are marginally meeting/not meeting the 800K in bank rule for stay extension for those on immigrant visa. But 800k is a pittance when compared to, say, the $1 MM required for long term stay in NZ. Western economic powers are in serious decline and their currencies show that weakness. It can get worse as Western countries lurch from one self made crisis to another. 

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On 12/22/2018 at 10:13 AM, KhunFred said:

Typical "by the book" attitude found all over Thailand.  Curiously an equal number of attitudes are extremely lenient. These women probably feel they are protecting their jobs. If it had been men ( or other female officers) the story might have been different. The inconsistency is something that has been very difficult to deal with, since I have been retired here. Only a few times has that inconsistency been in my favor.

I saw an old scouser arguing with IO about being minus 5,000 Baht, they told him they would let it go if he went and put 5,000 Baht into his account now, he refused, they shook their heads but gave him his extension anyway (Surin IO)

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22 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

It is immigration who "looks after" the agent-system

Look you've said multiple times across multiple topics that the reason for this whole shake-up is to drive more farang to the agent system. If they really wanted to do that, I would think they could've just said that we are maintaining the income affidavit modus operandi and, to any citizen of any country whose embassy does not want to issue such letters, tough luck.

 

So I'm not going to bite on that government pension only as backup thing as there is no indication so far they will even routinely want bank-up.

Edited by JLCrab
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11 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

So I'm not going to bite on that government pension only as backup thing as there is no indication so far they will even routinely want bank-up.

Let us hope you are correct. 

 

What I said was, something beyond what was revealed by the US-Consul could be in the Police-Order, which would torpedo income-based affidavits for many.  You said this might include "fraud prevention" measures.  That is where we seem to disagree - I know from history and personal-experience, what "fraud prevention" / "crackdown" means in immigration-speak at some offices; it means "an opportunity to increase profits from fraud and to deny legit extensions absent agent-assistance." 

 

But, these tactics vary by office, and by desk within some offices.  The end-result for applicants will likely come down to the local office and desk within it, as is the case now.  I hope there will be any language that would block a bad-office/desk from carrying on as-is, but the wording might even make it easier for them.  We will see over time how it plays out.

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21 hours ago, happy chappie said:

Yes and if they do raise it then it's only going to create more problems for a lot of retired people.lets face it the whole scheme is a mess.living here married with kids and only have to keep 400,000 or equivalent or retired alone and having to have 800,000 or equivalent.where is the sense in that.

If the wife has already bought the house and condo, the cars, paid the school fees etc, they probably think 400000 baht/year pocket money is enough for the husband perhaps?

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On 12/22/2018 at 6:52 AM, marcusarelus said:

After watching the market for the past week I'm glad mine is in the bank.  You can use a fixed deposit account.  It is not big bucks.  A 50% increase in interest on peanuts is still peanuts.  How much can you make in 90 days on 20 grand? 

Well not too much but, usaually i put the rest of my money before going back in my born country,in a retire fund in Kbank about 15k bahts per year and this year i had a 9% percent interest years before the interest range between 2 to 7%.... 

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On 12/22/2018 at 9:41 AM, grego49 said:

Same with the Aussie dollar,going down faster that a fat kid on a seasaw,

That's a big consideration if you're planning to use the embassy document 6 months in advance. Who knows where the AUDTHB will be in 6 months from now. For example, the USDAUD rate now is just over 0.70, but years ago it had dropped below 0.50 whereas not too long ago it was at parity. It's more volatile than the GBP by far. I was really hoping it would continue to rise as it had over the last few months, but now it is heading south again, quite rapidly.

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