Asbestos.

[elkangorito]

I have reason to believe that asbestos products are available in Thailand. Whilst these products may be freely available in Thailand, guidelines for the safe use & removal of asbestos are not available.

Most developed countries have either greatly restricted or banned the use of any form of asbestos, as well as implementing programs for its safe removal & safe disposal.

There are many kinds of asbestos, all of which have varying degrees of personal human hazard but quite sensibly, all of these products are considered dangerous. The common asbestos hazard is breathing any dust.

In a nutshell, do not buy or use asbestos - it may have very serious & long term affects upon you & your family.

Attached below is a PDF file about asbestos guidelines.

Edited February 20, 2007 by elkangorito

[GuestHouse]

In a nutshell, do not buy or use asbestos - it may have very serious & long term affects upon you & your family.

While I agree entirely with what you are saying, it the problem is avoiding asbestos. This becomes a particular problem when we consider the wide spread presense of counterfiet goods that may contain asbestos - Car break parts are an example.

Certainly there is no need to use asbestos and certainly it should be avoided, its the avoiding that is difficult where the policing of regulations is weak.

[chownah]

controversial issue....there are two basic kinds of asbestos....many studies indicate that one kind is bad and one kind is benign.....some people say that none of it is safe...others disagree....google it and read alot alot since there are people on both sides with vested interest.

[HenryLongfellow]

Why take the risk? If there are alternative products that nobody is worried about then why not use them.

But then TiT. If a builder can save 50 baht, at the cost of a couple of peoples health then of course he will chose to save 50 baht.

[chownah]

I have reason to believe that asbestos products are available in Thailand.

I guess that a good reason to believe this is that it is true....roofing, wall and ceiling panels and pipes are all available with asbestos in them.

Any idea of the asbestosis rate in Thailand?

[lingling]

I have reason to believe that asbestos products are available in Thailand. Whilst these products may be freely available in Thailand, guidelines for the safe use & removal of asbestos are not available.

You are kidding, right? Asbestos is the most commonly used roof materials here, so there is a bit more than "reason to believe". You can be sure that there is a decent amount of asbestos in the BKK dust as they just knock down buildings with asbestos roof, wall panels, pipes etc etc. I have yet to see a construction site where it is _not_ used.

Some types of asbestos was made illegal here a few years ago, but that hasn't really had any effect.

In addition it is still popular to lay large water pipelines made of asbestos so in some areas you not only inhale it in the dust from construction and demolition sites, but also get it in the tap water. (supposedly only unhealthy if you drink the same water unfiltered)

[chownah]

I have reason to believe that asbestos products are available in Thailand. Whilst these products may be freely available in Thailand, guidelines for the safe use & removal of asbestos are not available.

You are kidding, right? Asbestos is the most commonly used roof materials here, so there is a bit more than "reason to believe". You can be sure that there is a decent amount of asbestos in the BKK dust as they just knock down buildings with asbestos roof, wall panels, pipes etc etc. I have yet to see a construction site where it is _not_ used.

Some types of asbestos was made illegal here a few years ago, but that hasn't really had any effect.

In addition it is still popular to lay large water pipelines made of asbestos so in some areas you not only inhale it in the dust from construction and demolition sites, but also get it in the tap water. (supposedly only unhealthy if you drink the same water unfiltered)

I have never heard that asbestos in water poses a health hazard. Do you have a link that documents this?

Chownah

[backflip]

"I have never heard that asbestos in water poses a health hazard."

You are correct. Asbestos is only a health hazard if it is inhaled.

[quiksilva]

My grandfather died of asbestosis (sp?).

[lingling]

I have never heard that asbestos in water poses a health hazard. Do you have a link that documents this?

Some studies say that they can not prove a link, others that there are a link. Until there is a study that proves there is no link I will believe more in those that say that there is a link.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...p;dopt=Abstract

[chownah]

Lingling, Thanks for the link. At least now I have heard of the possibility. This evidence isn't the most convincing but it is evidence never the less.

Chownah

[Crossy]

I'd always been told that asbestos roofing where the asbestos is encapsulated in cement was 'safe' so long as you didn't cut it or otherwise generate dust.

It would appear however that as these roofs deteriorate they could let fibres into the environment

As an aside, we used to live near the Turners asbestos factory in Bickershaw, IIRC they went out of business when the place burned down.

[lingling]

I'd always been told that asbestos roofing where the asbestos is encapsulated in cement was 'safe' so long as you didn't cut it or otherwise generate dust.

It is safe as long as you don't cut it or break it. But when putting up a new roof, or when removing an old roof then it is difficult to do so without cutting and breaking.

In BKK you can see them just smash down old buildings with asbestos roof and wall panels, with no watering down or other protective measures. All that asbestos dust will just blow around the neighborhood and the soi dogs will develop mesothelioma and rack up expensive vet bills.

[elkangorito]

I have a good Brit friend who lives in Ban Chang (near Rayong). He was diagnosed with mesothilioma (not sure of spelling) some years ago & it was proven that his condition was caused by inhaling asbestos dust while he was working in power stations. He's had 2 major lumps cut out of his chest & is currently in good health. Needless to say that his health could rapidly decline anytime.

For those keeping up with current events, James Hardie (Australia) is currently in the process of paying billions to asbestos victims.

[siddv]

I'm an asbestos defense atty here in the USA and represent the mfgs and distributers of products that were commonly used and which contained asbestos in the 50s, 60s, 70, 80s and yes even the 90s. Day in and day out I take the depositions of persons who are dying, many of which thought they were healthly until a few months ago when they couldn't shake that coug, who now have been told that they have just a few months to live. The many adventures that they had hoped to take in the golden years of retirement will not happen. Instead, they and thier families and loved ones are preparing for thier death. Some people can work thier whole lives in the stuff and never have any problem, others can experience minimal expsoure and years later can develop mesothelioma. You want to take that chance? "Up to you"

[lingling]

[article not thailand related but asbestos-related]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/6378975.stm

[MyPenRye]

"In Thailand, asbestos has been imported for more than 30 years. It is used in several industries throughout the country. For example, 90 % of imported raw materials are used in cement manufacture, i.e., roof tile and cement pipe. The others are found in production of brake and clutch (8 %) and in production of vinyl floor tile, gasket, or heat insulating materials (2 %)."

reference

Sadly, Canada (and Russia), even though it (not sure for Russia) is banned here, is the main exporter of asbestos. I guess the owners must be well networked in the government. This is the other reason why we need more global watch organizations like greenpeace.

Edited March 30, 2007 by MyPenRye

[changhighlily]

My Brother died of asbestosis just a year ago come the 10th of April. This was in the Uk by the way where the regulations on using it are noe very tight where as before it was just like Thailand as they had no idea how dangerous it was. Now its as been proved without any shadow of a doubt that its lethel. Clifford my brother was very fit lad up to Christmas when he started with a chest infection. He worked on building sites and 57 years old. By the time he died it had eat one of his lungs away and half of his ribs and he died in agony. I would not wish that disease on my worst bloody enemy, anything but that. So you can talk all day about the pros and cons of the stuff. All I can say is that I have seen the full reports of what happened and its really awful. Like some of the poster say its used all the time in Thailand and to me its an irrisponsuble government that lets lets its use be legal. There are plenty of alternatives asbestalux one good example and for the a little extra cost what should be the problem. Just think of this when you are sitting and watching one of your loved ones sat there with an oxygen bottle bthat for a few quid it could have been avoided.

Thanks for listening

Lily

[JimsKnight]

I have reason to believe that asbestos products are available in Thailand. Whilst these products may be freely available in Thailand, guidelines for the safe use & removal of asbestos are not available.

Most developed countries have either greatly restricted or banned the use of any form of asbestos, as well as implementing programs for its safe removal & safe disposal.

There are many kinds of asbestos, all of which have varying degrees of personal human hazard but quite sensibly, all of these products are considered dangerous. The common asbestos hazard is breathing any dust.

In a nutshell, do not buy or use asbestos - it may have very serious & long term affects upon you & your family.

Attached below is a PDF file about asbestos guidelines.

Long post.

I worked in the Asbestos industry (Containment and removal) and can definately say that stuff is dangerous! The precautions to actually remove it defy the imagination! Plans, airlocks, negative pressure units breathing gear, liquid injection, mist sprayers etc.

To be fair Asbestos is still considered the ultimate wonder mineral (Lethality aside).

In ancient times an emporer could clean his Asbestos lined sheet by chucking it in the fire!

Flammable Airships in the early days allowed smoking because of the insulation effects of Asbestos in the smoking areas. Even now no material has quite matched Asbestos for being tough, lightweight, and heat proof. The substitute materials sacrifice one of the above usually (altough they are improving)

There is three catagories of asbestos: Blue, Brown and White. Blue is a real killer asbestos grade (croccyilodite) this stuff is nearly pure asbestos from the mineral mines! (>50% concentration) Its very easy to remove from a disposal angle (akin to cotton wool) but is very fibrous and lethal on the lungs (short and long term). Full on airlines and Outbreak style suits need to be worn! Thankfully this stuff is outlawed (since the 1980s) from being used in most countries, possibly even Thailand. This was/is used on towerblocks, in girders and yes this is probably still used in Thailand on new skyscrapers. It insulation materials are unmatched to rival its lethality. Good news is its not usually on peoples homes though.

When 9/11 kicked off a lot of the dust cloud from the towers was blue asbestos (they were built before regs came in) and many folks (emergency workers etc) have early signs of asbestosis etc. The NYC council keep very quiet on this one (they were criticised for re-opening wall st early etc but thats another story...)

The second and less severe than Blue is Brown Asbestos (Amosite >10-50% concentration). Usually found in pipework and in insulation materials all over the world. Outlawed in most countries but third-world countries still use this. Its been proved this is also a killer if the dust is inhaled (how much can vary)

Then there is White Asbestos (Chysotile >1-10% concentration) which is the contraversal one of the lot. This is often seen in large sheets on garages and false ceilings (similar to studio ceiling) This is the one thats really going full throttle in Thailand, I've been to Tropical Islands in Thailand where this is as well as up country. Now this is also used throughout SE Asia in Brake pad linings (unless things have changed) as again the wear resistant / heat resistant properties combined with being cheaper than conventional non asbestos brake pads make this cost-effective. It's hazardous to be in traffic for long periods because of this!

The asbestos industry (sales and distribution) argue very strongly that this type of material is not hazardous. They even continue to lobby governments to re-open trading citing no firm scientific evidence can prove its caused cancer (partly true). Its cheaper but since the 1990s even white asbestos remains outlawed.

Since most industrial diseases relating to Asbestos are of the blue type (dockworkers and laggers worked with this stuff a lot and suffer now because of it) and brown type.

The Asbestos mines are in South Africa and Eastern Asia (China?) and I think they still export round the world (S. America and Africa / Asia). The massive construction program in Shanghai probably involved asbestos in large quantities.

I can't see Thailand even considering to remove it just yet. Asbestos is cheap and does the job in their eyes, the workers installing it may pay the ultimate price though.

Even in the UK if asbestos thats already in place isn't presenting a danger to the public the HSE can recommend leaving it alone (subject to examination etc) The danger comes from disturbing it and damaging it (thus releasing fibres). Then it needs attention, like removal / isolations / encapsulation etc.

Although Singapore and some of the Gulf States do have a removal program in place it will be at least fifteen years (my estimate) before Thailand could possibly even implement a substitution and removal program. The UK and other countries have been doing such since the 1980s and theres still enough Asbetos left to keep firms busy for another twenty years!

If you suspect you've got the stuff in your home (which is possible) then I would advise against removing it yourself unless you've got experience of removing the stuff prior. The white / grey tile sheets seen all over thailand are the mildest form of the stuff going they present only a slight danger if damaged as their fibrosity is low compared with the other two and the fibres are less serpentine (barbed).

You could ask the Thai workers to remove it (trying to explain its dangers will be interesting in English to Thai!) but getting replacement materials may be tricky (especially as they may only have asbestos materials in the first place!)

The blue and brown type is found (usually) in city centers, offices and industrial zones, again this is the real nasty stuff to watch out for. Housing is extremely unlikely to have this.

If raining or subject to liquid asbestos lethality (all types) falls dramatically, something to consider if you twt a sheet in error!

An even lower grade of Asbestos is asbestos cement (similar to the stuff you see on garage roofs etc), this is still legal to remove yourself (UK) as its below decimal the amount of asbestos inside the cement.

I see this everywhere in Thailand!

Hope I haven't bored you all to death, But the stuff is out there and should be approached carefully, but not fearfully!

Sorry to hear about you all who have lost loved ones. The asbestosis is a horrible fate!

A buddy of mine in the Asbestos game who used to lag the pipeworks in the 1970s with blue asi. He's dying now from Asbestosis, coughing and all the misery. The UK government gave him about £15,000 compensation and thats his lot!

Any further questions give me a message!

Sorry didn't see the PDF file until I just wrote this post. Apologies if any of my info contradicts the OPs PDF.

Edited March 31, 2007 by JimsKnight

[elkangorito]

"In Thailand, asbestos has been imported for more than 30 years. It is used in several industries throughout the country. For example, 90 % of imported raw materials are used in cement manufacture, i.e., roof tile and cement pipe. The others are found in production of brake and clutch (8 %) and in production of vinyl floor tile, gasket, or heat insulating materials (2 %)."

reference

Sadly, Canada (and Russia), even though it (not sure for Russia) is banned here, is the main exporter of asbestos. I guess the owners must be well networked in the government. This is the other reason why we need more global watch organizations like greenpeace.

Thanks to all who have laboured to provide logical, & in some cases tragic, feedback. Too many people are easily fooled into believing that the stuff on their roof etc is NOT asbestos...they're told "it's cement". I think we now know what it really is...DANGEROUS!!

I would strongly advise reading the 'reference' in the above quoted post. Thanks for the link MyPenRye

JimsKnight - a great post. Thanks for taking the time to do it. I draw attention to one of your sentences as follows;

"If you suspect you've got the stuff in your home (which is possible) then I would advise against removing it yourself unless you've got experience of removing the stuff prior."

Please, keep the feedback coming. Maybe this topic will help to open the eyes of some currently ill informed people.

[chownah]

Perhaps the situation is not as dangerous as some people believe. In JimsKnight's post he clearly states:

"An even lower grade of Asbestos is asbestos cement (similar to the stuff you see on garage roofs etc), this is still legal to remove yourself (UK) as its below decimal the amount of asbestos inside the cement.

I see this everywhere in Thailand! "

The asbestos which you will typically run into in a Thai house is infact "asbestos cement". It can be safely removed by a home owner who takes the usual precautions such as not needlessly cutting or crushing so as to avoid making alot of dust...and wearing a filtering mask......basically the same precautions one should take when cutting concrete with an abrasive blade....at least this is what I have heard.

Does anyone know the incidence rate of asbestosis in Thailand....since asbestos cement is found everywhere you would think that there would be an epidemic going on.

Chownah

Edited March 31, 2007 by chownah

[JimsKnight]

You're correct Chownah but its important to add the following, either wear disposable 'paper suit' or dispose of your clothing and shower thoroughly to get any fibres from your hair etc.

Asi cement is the mildest but potentially dangerous if you or your family get into contact with it.

Kids are especially vunerable as the've got smaller lungs, developing etc.

I left the asbestos industry and one of the main reasons was too much con artistry where the companies would exaggerate the amounts of asbestos to remove it and therefore hike the removal price up to massive levels (talking high five figures to low six figure sums!) when it should of been only a fraction of the amount.

[nikster]

*bump*

Thanks for the enlightening insights, esp. JimsKnight - I figured the stuff is dangerous and didn't use it in my house but it's much better to know the details. I will pass on this info to my friends.

Edited August 9, 2007 by nikster

[dee123]

I too thank all of the above poster'sfor bringing to my attention the possibility of "dodgy" products that may be on sale in Thailand.....I worked as an asbestos removal operative in the late 70's in the u.k......guidlines were fairly strict then but even more so now....This subject must be brought to the attention of all who are buying materials for construction purposes etc....

[pete_r]

One question about the common square boards used for suspended ceilings. Is there any risk of finding asbestos in there?

[elkangorito]

One question about the common square boards used for suspended ceilings. Is there any risk of finding asbestos in there?

To my knowledge, no. I used these tiles in Sydney alot & not once were any of them an asbestos product or had asbestos in them. This could be different in Thailand. If possible, check with the manufacturer (if you can find out who they are).

[chownah]

One question about the common square boards used for suspended ceilings. Is there any risk of finding asbestos in there?

Yes, the 120 cm square cement boards are an asbestos cement product....and so is the corrugated cement board roofing....and the thin wall cement pipes....but don't worry too much because the types of fibres used in these products are the not really very dangerous kind and also the way it is being used in these products stabilizes the fibres so they generally don't sluff off of these products and so don't really cause much of a problem. There are probably alot of other environmental things that should concern us more than the presence of asbestos in these products. I'm sure that many will disagree with me in my estimation of the dangers of these products....I have asked before and I will ask again, does anyone know of the frequency of asbestosis in Thailand...I would think it would be an epidemic since these products are so widespread in Thailand...but I've never heard of asbestosis as being an issue in Thailand at all.

Chownah

[elkangorito]

One question about the common square boards used for suspended ceilings. Is there any risk of finding asbestos in there?

Yes, the 120 cm square cement boards are an asbestos cement product....and so is the corrugated cement board roofing....and the thin wall cement pipes....but don't worry too much because the types of fibres used in these products are the not really very dangerous kind and also the way it is being used in these products stabilizes the fibres so they generally don't sluff off of these products and so don't really cause much of a problem. There are probably alot of other environmental things that should concern us more than the presence of asbestos in these products. I'm sure that many will disagree with me in my estimation of the dangers of these products....I have asked before and I will ask again, does anyone know of the frequency of asbestosis in Thailand...I would think it would be an epidemic since these products are so widespread in Thailand...but I've never heard of asbestosis as being an issue in Thailand at all.

Chownah

Chownah is basically correct BUT, as advised with ALL asbestos products, the appropriate measures & procedures should be implemented when working with such products. See the link below for a guide to working with asbestos.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...st&id=24990

[pete_r]

A reason for the lack of reported cases of asbestosis in Thailand may be because the disease is currently diagnosed as lung cancer, without further investigation of the cause. Another possibility is that the disease hasn't got a significant impact yet, due to the long incubation time (20-40 years) and the fact that Thailand's consumption of asbestos started to increase just 20 years ago (when the producers of asbestos switched their market to the developing world, due to the increasing bans in the western world). One more possibility is that asbestosis simply doesn't exist in Thailand, but that seems a bit unlikely.

According to the Nation website (search for "asbestos"):

- Thailand is the 4th largest importer of asbestos, with 200,000 tons per year (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/page.arcview.php?clid=3&id=30032839) (Asbestos warnings planned, 27/04/2007).

- The really dangerous types of asbestos, crocidolite and amosite, are banned only since 2003 (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/page.arcview.php?clid=2&id=30003982) (Asbestos can cause cancer but 'it's cheap', 14/05/2006).

[klikster]

My grandfather died of asbestosis (sp?).

So did my older brother. I remember a sharp cough that he had for many years. He worked at a Dow Chemical plant on the Gulf Coast.

Edited August 11, 2007 by klikster