A renegotiated Brexit would go ahead under Labour government: Corbyn

[rooster59]

A renegotiated Brexit would go ahead under Labour government: Corbyn

 

FILE PHOTO: Jeremy Corbyn, leader of the Labour Party, speaks at the Confederation of British Industry's (CBI) annual conference in London, Britain, November 19, 2018. REUTERS/Toby Melville/File Photo

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain's opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn would push ahead with Brexit and seek to renegotiate the terms if he won a snap election next year, he said on Saturday, in a blow to party supporters who want a second referendum.

 

Like much of Britain, Corbyn's Labour party is deeply divided over Brexit, with some senior lawmakers leading calls for a fresh vote and others representing areas that recorded the highest support for leaving the European Union in the 2016 plebiscite.

 

Corbyn, a Socialist with little passion for the EU, has been reluctant to support a second referendum, or People's Vote, but with less than 100 days to go until Brexit the clamour is growing for either a delay or a second vote to prevent Britain leaving without a deal.

 

"You'd have to go back and negotiate, and see what the timetable would be," the 69-year-old told the Guardian newspaper, when asked what he would do if he won an early election designed to break the deadlock in parliament.

 

Asked what stance Labour would take if a referendum were held, Corbyn said: "it would be a matter for the party to decide what the policy would be; but my proposal at this moment is that we go forward, trying to get a customs union with the EU, in which we would be able to be proper trading partners."

 

Britain is due to leave the EU on March 29. Prime Minister Theresa May has struck a withdrawal agreement with Brussels but was forced to pull a parliamentary vote on it last week after admitting she would lose by a large margin.

 

A new election is not due until 2022 but one could be called if May fails to get her primary policy through parliament.

 

Labour wants a permanent customs union with the EU and a close relationship with its lucrative single market. The policy has been dubbed "constructive ambiguity" by some, who question whether Labour could negotiate a better deal.

 

Critics argue that Corbyn has been happy to go along with the policy as long as the vote to leave the bloc is respected.

He told the Guardian he still had concerns about EU rules on state aid, and that he had to balance the views of all those in the party and understand why so many voted to leave the world's biggest trading bloc.

 

He said his plan for a customs union with the EU, to protect trade and access to the market, was designed to do just that.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-12-23

[Basil B]

 

He reminds me of a children's game "Simple Simon Say's"

Edited December 23, 2018 by Basil B

[John1012]

Unless the current government requests an extension of the 2 year period described in article 50, all treaties with the EU will become defunct on March 29th 2019. Parliament can bluster and whine as much as they like, if  agreed termination terms are not passed into law by parliament we leave and can trade under WTO rules. The current option submitted by Sharia May, appeaser in chief, almost certainly will fail to get  parliamentary  acceptance. (I hope). If it is accepted the Tory party will cease to exist at the next election.

[terryw]

Corbyn is simply speaking to his supporters. The last 2 years have shown us that the EU does not negotiate, it dictates.

[sawadee1947]

That is simply nonsense.

Negotiations are finished from EU side. 

[JulesMad]

...stupid man.... ????

[vogie]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

That is simply nonsense.

Negotiations are finished from EU side. 

Have you thought about Eire having an Irexit, it would solve a lot of problems you know.

[anon7867763]

Corbyn is an idiot. EU has said 100 times, no more negotiations. He has just signed Labours death warrant in the next elections. He is a serious looser.

[ivor bigun]

That is simply nonsense.
Negotiations are finished from EU side. 

Yes Junker said ,"do as we tell you" now p off

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jonnapat]

It seems that stupidity reigns everywhere in my country

[dunroaming]

3 hours ago, John1012 said:

Unless the current government requests an extension of the 2 year period described in article 50, all treaties with the EU will become defunct on March 29th 2019. Parliament can bluster and whine as much as they like, if  agreed termination terms are not passed into law by parliament we leave and can trade under WTO rules. The current option submitted by Sharia May, appeaser in chief, almost certainly will fail to get  parliamentary  acceptance. (I hope). If it is accepted the Tory party will cease to exist at the next election.

Not sure the Tory Party will cease to exist but they will take a harsh bashing.  All the main political parties have lost their credibility now.  It is still almost impossible to predict what will happen with Brexit.  We have created a monster that is systematically destroying the fabric of Britain. I fear the damage will be deep and long lasting.  No matter what Brexit brings we will be worse off for it.  The worst of it is that it has divided the country like never before.

[khunken]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Have you thought about Eire having an Irexit, it would solve a lot of problems you know.

Why think about something that's most certainly not going to happen. Right now Ireland is not going to shoot itself in the foot to solve a British problem.

Edited December 23, 2018 by khunken

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, johnsnapo said:

Corbyn is an idiot. EU has said 100 times, no more negotiations. He has just signed Labours death warrant in the next elections. He is a serious looser.

I'm not sure that EU leaders would never think twice about a full customs deal, but yes I agree that he's an idiot. I saw this YouGov latest poll, which certainly confirms it.  This is just the relevant part of it. Why on earth don't Labour leaders study these to find out what is actually popular with voters? Labour could suffer badly if it ends up facilitating Brexit

Labour is seeking an early general election. YouGov asked people how they would vote if Labour, along with the Conservatives, supported going ahead with Brexit. Labour slumps to third place, with 22%, behind the Liberal Democrats, who would jump to 26%. Those who voted Labour last year and remain the year before say they are more likely to switch to the Liberal Democrats (49%) than stay with Labour (41%). The survey suggests no compensating boost among those who voted leave in the referendum. In fact, it would be the Conservatives who would benefit if both main parties backed Brexit. Their support among leave voters would rise from 62% to 69%. Labour support among leave voters would slip from 21% to 19%.

Moreover, most Labour leave voters who take sides back a people’s vote, by 56-44%. Again, the evidence suggests little downside to Labour backing a people’s vote. Indeed, among Labour supporters generally, such a vote is massively popular, with 77% in favour and just 23% against. A further challenge for Jeremy Corbyn is to persuade voters that he could get a better Brexit deal if he were prime minister. This claim is rejected by 68%-11% of voters generally, by 47%-30% of Labour voters, and – perhaps most ominously – by 52-23% of Labour leave voters.

 

BTW The overall poll showed that in a referendum between staying in the EU, and leaving on the government terms, 59% favoured staying, an 18 point margin. "Support for staying in the EU has rocketed" said the caption.  

[evadgib]

 

[vogie]

2 hours ago, khunken said:

Why think about something that's most certainly not going to happen. Right now Ireland is not going to shoot itself in the foot to solve a British problem.

Bit of a selfish attitude if you don't mind me saying.

[khunken]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Bit of a selfish attitude if you don't mind me saying.

Actually I do mind because Ireland is part of the EU which is trying to get the UK to make up its mind. Nothing selfish about looking after one's own interests which are being upheld by the EU.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

 

I thought they will have a vote on that?

[elliss]

 All  is  not  lost , believe me please . 

  There will be ,  another  extension on the previous extensions . 

Good news at last. 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by elliss

[sawadee1947]

9 hours ago, vogie said:

Have you thought about Eire having an Irexit, it would solve a lot of problems you know.

We have no problem with migrants...... 

And our Taoiseach doesn't have either ????

 

[joecoolfrog]

7 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

I'm not sure that EU leaders would never think twice about a full customs deal, but yes I agree that he's an idiot. I saw this YouGov latest poll, which certainly confirms it.  This is just the relevant part of it. Why on earth don't Labour leaders study these to find out what is actually popular with voters? Labour could suffer badly if it ends up facilitating Brexit

Labour is seeking an early general election. YouGov asked people how they would vote if Labour, along with the Conservatives, supported going ahead with Brexit. Labour slumps to third place, with 22%, behind the Liberal Democrats, who would jump to 26%. Those who voted Labour last year and remain the year before say they are more likely to switch to the Liberal Democrats (49%) than stay with Labour (41%). The survey suggests no compensating boost among those who voted leave in the referendum. In fact, it would be the Conservatives who would benefit if both main parties backed Brexit. Their support among leave voters would rise from 62% to 69%. Labour support among leave voters would slip from 21% to 19%.

Moreover, most Labour leave voters who take sides back a people’s vote, by 56-44%. Again, the evidence suggests little downside to Labour backing a people’s vote. Indeed, among Labour supporters generally, such a vote is massively popular, with 77% in favour and just 23% against. A further challenge for Jeremy Corbyn is to persuade voters that he could get a better Brexit deal if he were prime minister. This claim is rejected by 68%-11% of voters generally, by 47%-30% of Labour voters, and – perhaps most ominously – by 52-23% of Labour leave voters.

 

BTW The overall poll showed that in a referendum between staying in the EU, and leaving on the government terms, 59% favoured staying, an 18 point margin. "Support for staying in the EU has rocketed" said the caption.  

Corbyn has always wanted to leave the EU , his views are entrenched , hence his puzzling ' sitting on hands ' strategy.

[sawadee1947]

11 hours ago, terryw said:

Corbyn is simply speaking to his supporters. The last 2 years have shown us that the EU does not negotiate, it dictates.

You forgot who wanted to leave??????? 

[Basil B]

Corbyn lives in Cloud Cuckoo Land or more to the point he is preaching to the voters that do... 

 

The door is closed on renegotiation's, other than maybe clarifications and rephrasing the odd paragraph.

 

Even if he is hoping for a general election highly unlikely he would be in number 10 before Brexit day even if at all, given that he needs first to depose the government with a vote of no confidence, can not do that until the Commons returns on the 7th, then the Tories have 14 days to form another government, assuming the can not then the election would be the Thursday after 21 days, that will take use up to mid Feb,

 

here is the tricky point, he has only 257 MP's and needs to win another 69 seats and then that would be only a majority of one, that is a tall order given first his unpopularity, even when public opinion runs against a political party the incumbent MP's can still be hard to shift, and Labour have only 3% lead over the Tories according to the latest opinion polls (Tories 36% Labour 39%), this almost certainly will leave us with a hung parliament, that may take weeks to sort out then whoever forms the next government will need the support of the Scottish Nationalists and/or more than one of the minor parties. I doubt any will be willing to work with Corbyn, and all the other parties are solidly remain so that may well be a precondition of propping up any government.

 

 

 

[Grouse]

State aid is the point you are missing

 

Corbyn is a communist and he plans massive state spending which would infringe EU rules

 

He forgets that most EU countries invest significantly more per capita on infrastructure including road, rail, health, schools and utilities.

 

Corbyn needs to be got rid of together with that idiot Gardiner, the moronic Abbot and the dangerous shadow chancellor. In fact the Labour front bench and many of their back benchers fail to impress.

 

https://www.out-law.com/en/topics/eu--competition/state-aid1/-introduction-to-state-aid/

 

What companies would Corbyn wish to provide state aid to???

Edited December 24, 2018 by Grouse

[evadgib]

8 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

You forgot who wanted to leave??????? 

"Is going to"!

[Baerboxer]

On 12/23/2018 at 2:11 PM, terryw said:

Corbyn is simply speaking to his supporters. The last 2 years have shown us that the EU does not negotiate, it dictates.

 

Corbyn is a 79 year old very left wing socialist who has always been anti EU. He has no idea but appeals to many by making promises of free this that and the other. People who haven't lived through the mess of Labor controlled economies which basically want to spend everyone else's money for them and have no idea what to do when it all runs out.

 

The EU have said they will not re-negotiate. It's take it or leave it time. To pretend he could make the EU renegotiate, make them accept his version of a "better deal", even when no one knows what this would look like, is complete folly. Shows what a prat he really is.

 

Corbyn is really interested in turning the UK into the sort of socialist paradise that only exists in loony left imaginations. Reality - look at this photo. He's away with the fairies!

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, Grouse said:

State aid is the point you are missing

 

Corbyn is a communist and he plans massive state spending which would infringe EU rules

 

He forgets that most EU countries invest significantly more per capita on infrastructure including road, rail, health, schools and utilities.

 

Corbyn needs to be got rid of together with that idiot Gardiner, the moronic Abbot and the dangerous shadow chancellor. In fact the Labour front bench and many of their back benchers fail to impress.

 

https://www.out-law.com/en/topics/eu--competition/state-aid1/-introduction-to-state-aid/

 

What companies would Corbyn wish to provide state aid to???

 

He wants to re-nationalize the railways which would require massive public spending; bring all the NHS back into full public ownership, massive increase in workforce and associated costs; similarly would pressure local councils to re-establish their own workforce at the expense of private suppliers and contractors.  Plenty more examples in his rhetoric.

 

He will pay for all this, as usual, through tax. Tax on businesses, on individuals, wealth taxes and they want to bring in a Land value tax so when you sell your house, the increase in the land value becomes taxable.

 

Allowed to govern he will create a socialist centrally controlled economy that creates very little wealth, diminishes value, simply shifts money from one pocket to another and eventually goes bankrupt. But people are so pissed off with the Tories, he might just get the chance.

[Nigel Garvie]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

State aid is the point you are missing

 

Corbyn is a communist and he plans massive state spending which would infringe EU rules

 

He forgets that most EU countries invest significantly more per capita on infrastructure including road, rail, health, schools and utilities.

 

Corbyn needs to be got rid of together with that idiot Gardiner, the moronic Abbot and the dangerous shadow chancellor. In fact the Labour front bench and many of their back benchers fail to impress.

 

https://www.out-law.com/en/topics/eu--competition/state-aid1/-introduction-to-state-aid/

 

What companies would Corbyn wish to provide state aid to???

Interesting article from EU on state aid. In reality, as you said, many EU countries invest more in their infrastructure than we do. That includes rail of course. Corbyn, who appears to be becoming increasingly irrational (Logic wasn't his strong point in the first place) continues to pretend that for some weird reason the UK will be unable to bend these EU rules as many countries (Possibly including the UK?) already do.

 

Going back to the Reuters based article, I had to explain to an upset left wing friend on FB why the banner headlines did not reflect exactly what JC said. I said this:-

I read your article, it is making a fair point, Newspapers go for banner headlines that are not entirely justified by, or reflective of the fine detail of the subject matter. That’s what they do - all of them.
However an underlying problem remains here, whatever JC actually said, as he tries once again to ride many different horses at the same time.
1) It is pretty firmly established that JC is anti EU and has been for decades.
2) Going to see the EU leaders after an election victory is negociation, not a cosy little social visit, leaders don’t usually do those. Any mention of customs union etc confirms that.
3) Whatever JC is free to do will be tied to the election manifesto which the party, not only the leader, is responsible for, he never mentioned this restriction when it would have been the perfect way to avoid answering a difficult question.
4) The bottom line is that however you interpret what he said, it appears that he still want’s to leave, though on different terms. This is against the clearly expressed view of party members, who want a people’s vote, not JC selling out said members before they have a chance to vote for remain.
5) A wiser leader would have seen “Elephant trap” written all over this line of questioning.
6) As the statistics in this post show, the idea that Labour would loose Gamon votes by clearly backing a peoples vote is inaccurate. What is clear is the massive loss of votes they would lose if they went into an election backing Brexit. The EU is against nationalisation line which we have heard before is not part of EU law at all.
7) I am not against JC personally, although he can be a bit irritating like many politicians, I just don’t think he is good enough for the job. I want LP to win seats in England at the next election, and it appears to me that we are past peak JC. However if I wanted advice on the best sort of anorak to wear at the protest march, I’m sure he would be most friendly when offering his opinion!

Excuse long post.
 

Edited December 24, 2018 by Nigel Garvie
punctuation

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Corbyn is a 79 year old very left wing socialist who has always been anti EU. He has no idea but appeals to many by making promises of free this that and the other. People who haven't lived through the mess of Labor controlled economies which basically want to spend everyone else's money for them and have no idea what to do when it all runs out.

 

The EU have said they will not re-negotiate. It's take it or leave it time. To pretend he could make the EU renegotiate, make them accept his version of a "better deal", even when no one knows what this would look like, is complete folly. Shows what a prat he really is.

 

Corbyn is really interested in turning the UK into the sort of socialist paradise that only exists in loony left imaginations. Reality - look at this photo. He's away with the fairies!

I don't know if reading your posts has had this effect on him (Only joking) but Corbyn has aged 10 years overnight, though you might argue that he looks and acts like a 79 year old, and "Away with the fairies" is a fair comment.

 

I have lived through so many mismanaged economies it is painful to remember them. Macmillan and Wilson were ok, Heath- the three day week -say no more. Callahan useless, Thatcher an utter disaster, destroyed UK manufacturing industry, spent Scotlands oil money giving tax cuts to the rich (Norway with a similar resource has a fund large enough to pay off the UK national debt). Major ok, Blair/Brown ok up till the crash in 2008 (Caused by the banks, not actually caused by the UK LP strangely enough). Cameron .........anyone (other than the rich) care for a bit of austerity? It's a pretty mixed picture I would say, though I would agree that the amount of state spending planned by Corbyn and McDonell, would give anyone with a small understanding of economics cause for concern.

[SheungWan]

On 12/23/2018 at 2:11 PM, terryw said:

Corbyn is simply speaking to his supporters. 

No he isn't.

[SheungWan]

17 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

Corbyn is really interested in turning the UK into the sort of socialist paradise that only exists in loony left imaginations. Reality - look at this photo. He's away with the fairies!

Corbynite loony left imaginations Vs Hard Brexiteer loony right imaginations. Great choice.