Move to make health insurance mandatory for long-stay visas

[LucysDad]

59 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

"In fact as far as skin colour goes being white, ageing, Anglo Saxon means you will not be asked to evidence residential status. Don't let the scaremongers scare you; understand the rules and act accordingly. Contrary to scaremongering they don't routinely check your passport.

 

This assessment of racial assumptions is cringe-worthy!  Otherwise, in future, some had better hope they won't ask for passports or other confirmation of residence!

 

 

Cringe away.

 

 

It is a fact.

[BigStar]

10 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Health insurance is a great case in point. You're American, and as fuc**ked up as our system is, once you get to Medicare age, you do get peace of mind.

 

 

But not as a Thai living in America unless you're also eligible for Social Security retirement benefits, Railroad Retirement Benefits (RRB), or Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI). How many's that. ???? Thai SS has a much better offer for foreigners.

 

Most people in the USA reaching Medicare age have been paying taxes for quite a few years that help support the system. But that's not a legal requirement if you're a citizen. An old retiree in Thailand hasn't been paying into any Thai system and isn't a citizen.

 

Apples and oranges, so not a great case in point.

 

Medicare, BTW, has its own problems and limitations. Check how many Johns Hopkins specialists will accept it as payment in full. Note that it and Thai schemes don't cover custodial long-term nursing home care, important to our many members already in the early stages of dementia.

 

Quote

In Thailand, it's actually the opposite, and the older you get the more out of reach health security becomes, with premiums escalating and exclusions making any horribly priced policy basically worthless

 

 

No. Same as in the USA if you choose to buy private insurance. What about the Obamacare "fix?" ???? Or anywhere from any known-good international insurer. But out of reach does depend on your wealth. 

 

Thais have their own schemes that make healthcare relatively affordable for Thais. It's also extremely generous of Thailand to allow foreigners under the age of 60, after working a year for a Thai institution, to join Thai SS and continue full health coverage for life by paying a modest premium. No Part B or D needed. Completely blows away USA's offer for foreigners to receive Medicare. 

 

Quote

 

Problem with that is, that policy proclamations don't often follow through on the long term implications

 

Similarly mere proposals aren't often accepted or after accepted implemented at all. Hence it's just awfully early to be running around like Chicken Little. Wait and see. Yes, you may have your Plan B. You didn't before?
 

Edited January 2, 2019 by BigStar

[scubascuba3]

Hi I am 80 and have Bangkok Bank accident insurance cost is a little over 5000 Baht P A
 

At 80 i would seriously give some thought to not bothering with a visa if the compulsory health insurance comes in. Avoids the drama of changing countries

[scubascuba3]

Thanks for the link.. checking on a couple of the references for premiums..
 
Viriyah - 39.5k for 51-55 rising to 94k for 70-75, upwards to 249k for 95-99.
Navakij - 53k for 51-55 to 91k 76-80 (no cover above this)
Both for c. 400k IP & 40k OP
 
Combined with all the restrictions and exclusions, it is hardly worth bothering.. Much more sensible to self insure especially as you get older... unless of course you want much higher cover (which many will recommend), but expect to pay correspondingly higher premiums.
JMHO.

The cover is rubbish, may be its enough for a Thai but not for a falang. I saw quoted ICU 5,000 baht daily. I've heard several times ICU can be 50,000 baht a day so the insurance is just a waste of money

[Patriot1066]

2 hours ago, LucysDad said:

 

 

Cringe away.

 

 

It is a fact.

Actually Chackabatti? Labours equal opportunities woman? raised ex pats in an interview not long ago when she was asked about "Health Tourism" from Africa, she emediatly raised 'what about ex pats I.e mainly white people, so I guess we are on their radar if Comrade Corbyn gets into power.

 

A guy I know not so well but to talk to went back to the UK last year as needed a big heart surgery after tests here, they did try to charge him, but he left after the treatment, so thinks he's got away with it at the moment. He said next time he would get a mailbox type address as he only had the BB address in the UK.

 

It is a fact as well that we if white are less likely to get asked if we are a resident or not, and I understand you can become resident on the day you arrive back if your intention is to stay. But we are more likely to have lived longer in the UK and contributed more than a 'new arrival' in any case. The UK system Is actually unfair to those that have left but paid in all those years when a 'new foreign arrival be it from Europe or an asylum claimant can get effectively get everything free.

[steve73]

15 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

6 hours ago, steve73 said:

Thanks for the link.. checking on a couple of the references for premiums..
 
Viriyah - 39.5k for 51-55 rising to 94k for 70-75, upwards to 249k for 95-99.
Navakij - 53k for 51-55 to 91k 76-80 (no cover above this)
Both for c. 400k IP & 40k OP
 
Combined with all the restrictions and exclusions, it is hardly worth bothering.. Much more sensible to self insure especially as you get older... unless of course you want much higher cover (which many will recommend), but expect to pay correspondingly higher premiums.
JMHO.

The cover is rubbish, may be its enough for a Thai but not for a falang. I saw quoted ICU 5,000 baht daily. I've heard several times ICU can be 50,000 baht a day so the insurance is just a waste of money

50k/day for ICU would be in an International standard hospital (BKK group, etc).  This "mandatory" cover would probably be OK (for many things) in a Thai government hospital.  Not every wants (or can afford) international standard 5* treatment.

[scubascuba3]

50k/day for ICU would be in an International standard hospital (BKK group, etc).  This "mandatory" cover would probably be OK (for many things) in a Thai government hospital.  Not every wants (or can afford) international standard 5* treatment.

In an emergency and an ambulance picks you up, don't they usually take you to a private hospital first (that's what I've read), then if you can't pay they move you to a govt hospital by which time maybe racked up a big bill. If you could guarantee being taken to a govt hospital it wouldn't be too bad assuming you are right about the daily 5k baht ICU being enough

[steve73]

5 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

11 minutes ago, steve73 said:

50k/day for ICU would be in an International standard hospital (BKK group, etc).  This "mandatory" cover would probably be OK (for many things) in a Thai government hospital.  Not every wants (or can afford) international standard 5* treatment.

In an emergency and an ambulance picks you up, don't they usually take you to a private hospital first (that's what I've read), then if you can't pay they move you to a govt hospital by which time maybe racked up a big bill. If you could guarantee being taken to a govt hospital it wouldn't be too bad assuming you are right about the daily 5k baht ICU being enough

For a "planned" medical procedure you would be able to select where to go. 

 

I agree in an emergency, when they see a "farang" they may take you to a private hospital first.. if you can't pay then serves them right.  Perhaps need to carry a insurance card that clearly identifies your preferred type of hospital (or at least the insurance limit).  If you have full intl cover, they can take you straight to a intl hospital.. Probably more useful to carry this than your passport.. 

[Mango Bob]

I have Tricare for Life.  I am 71 years old.  You must have Medicare Part A and B to be eligible.  I pay 25% of the cost for both outpatient and inpatient treatment including medicines.  I will never go to a government hospital and only use a private hospital near where I live for minor issues.  I do not pay anything after I reach my limit of $3,000.  ( I understand this will go up to $3,500 this year).  I only use Bumrungard Hospital which will charge for inpatient cost 25% and submit the claim for me to Tricare.   BNH and Bangkok Hospital do this also.  They will verify with JUSMAGTHAI that you are eligible.  With one operation you could meet your cap. 

 

p.s. I don't care what people think about government hospital.  I will never use them after seeing how they examined my wife for a cold.  The doctor did nothing but write a prescription for about 7 medicines.  Did not check to see if she had a fever, listen to her lungs or look down her throat.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Mango Bob

[Jumbo1968]

49 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

Actually Chackabatti? Labours equal opportunities woman? raised ex pats in an interview not long ago when she was asked about "Health Tourism" from Africa, she emediatly raised 'what about ex pats I.e mainly white people, so I guess we are on their radar if Comrade Corbyn gets into power.

 

A guy I know not so well but to talk to went back to the UK last year as needed a big heart surgery after tests here, they did try to charge him, but he left after the treatment, so thinks he's got away with it at the moment. He said next time he would get a mailbox type address as he only had the BB address in the UK.

 

It is a fact as well that we if white are less likely to get asked if we are a resident or not, and I understand you can become resident on the day you arrive back if your intention is to stay. But we are more likely to have lived longer in the UK and contributed more than a 'new arrival' in any case. The UK system Is actually unfair to those that have left but paid in all those years when a 'new foreign arrival be it from Europe or an asylum claimant can get effectively get everything free.

Unfortunately your friend will be on a data base, having a UK address, paying Council Tax etc doesn’t exempt you from paying hospital charges in the UK.

The criteria I believe is similar to the annual increments in the State Pension, live outside the UK for more than 6 months and you are classed as non resident.

[LucysDad]

1 hour ago, Patriot1066 said:

 

It is a fact as well that we if white are less likely to get asked if we are a resident or not, and I understand you can become resident on the day you arrive back if your intention is to stay. But we are more likely to have lived longer in the UK and contributed more than a 'new arrival' in any case. The UK system Is actually unfair to those that have left but paid in all those years when a 'new foreign arrival be it from Europe or an asylum claimant can get effectively get everything free.

 

 

40+ years in my case.

[steve73]

1 hour ago, Jumbo1968 said:

Unfortunately your friend will be on a data base, having a UK address, paying Council Tax etc doesn’t exempt you from paying hospital charges in the UK.

The criteria I believe is similar to the annual increments in the State Pension, live outside the UK for more than 6 months and you are classed as non resident.

You just need to say you are relocating permanently back to the UK for immediate free access to NHS, and the pension increase (backdated to when you left).  I'm not sure what would happen if you left immediately after your treatment though.. Arrest you at the airport..? probably not..!

[Jumbo1968]

32 minutes ago, steve73 said:

You just need to say you are relocating permanently back to the UK for immediate free access to NHS, and the pension increase (backdated to when you left).  I'm not sure what would happen if you left immediately after your treatment though.. Arrest you at the airport..? probably not..!

It all depends on what your morals are and how many lies you are prepared to tell. 

Emergency treatment is free but any routine stuff is charged at 150% of the initial cost.

[steve73]

11 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

It all depends on what your morals are and how many lies you are prepared to tell. 

Emergency treatment is free but any routine stuff is charged at 150% of the initial cost.

I've always thought the NHS should ONLY be for emergency/essential treatment.  Any non-essential stuff (cosmetic surgery, etc) should have always been "paid-for", although as you get older the lines do get blurry, such as hip replacements, etc. 

[scubascuba3]

This chat about compulsory health insurance which is already in place for the 3m baht longer term visa. But hardly any suckers took that up? so crazy to roll out to the 800k option

[Sheryl]

Those are just room charged which are not the main driver of hospitalization costs.

Surgery costs. Doctor fees. Medications. Lab tests. Scans and xrays. Medical equipment and supplies -- all additional to the roon charge.

400k cover is pointless. You need 3-5 million baht cover per event or more if the cap is per year.

Most internstional insurers provide USD 1 million.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[scubascuba3]

Those are just room charged which are not the main driver of hospitalization costs.

Surgery costs. Doctor fees. Medications. Lab tests. Scans and xrays. Medical equipment and supplies -- all additional to the roon charge.

400k cover is pointless. You need 3-5 million baht cover per event or more if the cap is per year.

Most internstional insurers provide USD 1 million.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

"400k cover is pointless"

This applies to govt hospitals also?

[Sheryl]

"400k cover is pointless"

This applies to govt hospitals also?

IMO yes. It will go further in a govt hodpital but it is still not enough should you have a major accident or catastrophic illness. Bills in those cases eadily exceed 1 million baht.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[JLCrab]

5 hours ago, Sheryl said:

400k cover is pointless.

Pointless or not, 400K baht per year minimum IP cover is the number approved by the MoFA for the O-X visa as on the official MoFA website and I don't see that number likely changing should any possible requirement be put in for O-A.

[scubascuba3]

Pointless or not, 400K baht per year minimum IP cover is the number approved by the MoFA for the O-X visa as on the official MoFA website and I don't see that number likely changing should any possible requirement be put in for O-A.

But if we are going to be forced to buy insurance it may be sensible to spend a bit more and get one that is actually useful

[Sheryl]

20 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

36 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Pointless or not, 400K baht per year minimum IP cover is the number approved by the MoFA for the O-X visa as on the official MoFA website and I don't see that number likely changing should any possible requirement be put in for O-A.

But if we are going to be forced to buy insurance it may be sensible to spend a bit more and get one that is actually useful

Especially since a decent policy will cost about the same.

 

but the stickler is the unnecessary OPD requirement....

[JLCrab]

29 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

but the stickler is the unnecessary OPD requirement....

So maybe if it becomes absolutely necessary to have OPD cover to get an O-A visa, it could be added to an IPD only existing policy with a BIG deductible to keep the premiums in tact i.e. 40K baht per year OPD with an 80K per year OPD deductible.

[Pattaya46]

7 hours ago, Sheryl said:

400k cover is pointless. You need 3-5 million baht cover per event or more if the cap is per year.

If the idea is just to avoid big unpaid bills in Thai hospitals, then it's not pointless. It's enough to pay for most cases, and for the very serious ones it's enough to stabilise them and send then back home. What will happen to them after that is not Thailand problem or preoccupation.

[Misab]

Maybe there will a government health insurance for this purpose with payable price 

[ivor bigun]

So what will happen to people over a certain age who cant get it ,but have lived here years and have familly here?

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[steve73]

7 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

So what will happen to people over a certain age who cant get it ,but have lived here years and have familly here?

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

There were some links earlier in this thread (I think) suggesting cover up to 100yo.. but it was 249k per year for 400k of cover IIRC..

[scubascuba3]

I'm becoming increasingly relaxed about this forced insurance (who likes being forced to do anything?). I'm glad i didn't buy a condo. I may do two 3 month tourist visa stints in Thailand and spend the other time in nearby countries

[roo860]

I'm becoming increasingly relaxed about this forced insurance (who likes being forced to do anything?). I'm glad i didn't buy a condo. I may do two 3 month tourist visa stints in Thailand and spend the other time in nearby countries

And could still stay in your condo for 6 months a year, if you had bought one.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[scubascuba3]

And could still stay in your condo for 6 months a year, if you had bought one.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Yes but it means 6 months empty, ok but a bit of a waste

[meechai]

7 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

20 minutes ago, roo860 said:

And could still stay in your condo for 6 months a year, if you had bought one.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Yes but it means 6 months empty, ok but a bit of a waste

More than a waste...We use to do just that....BUT ...TIT

 

You may come back to a condo full of poop smell as we did because upstairs condo toilet had been seeping into our ceiling & of course none will report it if your not there

 

Sold CM Condo on that trip after owning it near 20 years

It is fine if you live full time as we once did.

But since leaving in 2016 to instead live part time only....Condo's not a wise choice unless someone is checking weekly on it for you

 

Still have house in Northern Thailand & no problem as sister inlaw lives next door & keeps check on it

Edited January 5, 2019 by meechai