Nong Khai immigration office refusing to issue residency certificate on non-immigrant O marriage visa (multiple-entry)

[ramr]

I'm on a Multiple Entry Non-Immigrant O visa by marriage (aka "The Savannakhet Special") and we live in Nong Khai.   As Thailand is clearly getting more and more strict on enforcing requirements of all sorts, I figure it's time to finally get a Thai driver's license, so I send my landlord off to Nong Khai immigration with a TM30 form and all the required documents/copies.  I asked her to ask the immigration office how long after submitting the TM30 before I'm "in the system" and can thus submit the form requesting a residency certificate, which--as most of you probably know--is required to get a driver's license.  They sent her back with the bottom receipt for my passport, so that part was successful.   But they also gave her the answer that they will not issue a residency certificate because I'm on a multiple entry visa and still need to leave the the country every 90 days to get an additional 90 days validity of stay (i.e. stamp).  They said this even though the visa itself is valid for up to a year and I've had a couple friends living here long-term on the same type of visa (yes, the *exact* same type; I'm aware of the other type of non-o by marriage visa and its requirements) and they both have never run into this problem with getting a residency certificate.  The immigration office additionally told my landlord they would need me to come into the office with my wife and change my visa to a 12-month visa to issue the certificate, which--as far as I can tell--means they want to convert me to a standard single-entry non-o marriage visa, along with the income/bank balance requirements that go with it.  These requirements are impossible to meet right now, as I've been abroad for most of 2018 and am just getting settled back here job- and finance-wise...we're living off modest savings for the time being and are fine for money, but can't currently meet the Thai financial requirements.   (Note: even if I had the money, I'd do everything I could to find an alternative to keeping that much money in a Thai bank, for reasons that are obvious to many).

I've tried with countless searches to find another thread on TV (or anywhere!) that addresses this problem, but zilch.  It seems odd that with so many people using this type of visa long-term and the wealth of information and posts on TV that there are no other occurrences of this...that I can find.  This and the fact that my other long-term expat friends have had no such problems on the same visa, leads me to believe that Nong Khai immigration is indeed living up to its reputation as a particularly difficult office.  

Does anyone else have any experience with this exact scenario in other offices?  Can anyone shed some light on this...whether it's personal or friends' experiences...or any information they can point me to that definitively (yes, I know, TIT, but still) says that I can (or can't) get a residency certificate on a multiple-entry non-O marriage visa?  My wife is visiting friends out of town at the moment, but I'd really, really like to have my ducks in a row *before* we go back together to the immigration office to talk to them again.  The more info I have, the better.

I do understand their (ostensible) reasoning, as the ME visa is in a weird sense both a short-term and a long-term visa, but it just seems crazy to me that with a 12-month lease and a history of long-term visas in my passport that I wouldn't be considered as having a residency in Thailand.

Again, any ammo (figuratively speaking...I'm always Mr. Soft Spoken with Thai officials) that anyone can give me before I go back is much appreciated.

 

Edited January 2, 2019 by ramr

[Lovethailandelite]

Bangkok immigration won't issue them either unless you are doing 90 day reporting.
Good news is you can obtain one from your embassy.

[elviajero]

31 minutes ago, ramr said:

I do understand their (ostensible) reasoning, as the ME visa is in a weird sense both a short-term and a long-term visa, but it just seems crazy to me that with a 12-month lease and a history of long-term visas in my passport that I wouldn't be considered as having a residency in Thailand.

The visa is ostensibly meant for someone living outside of Thailand that wants/needs to visit frequently. It is not - and never has been - meant to be used to live in the country (yes I know many do and immigration tolerate it). Hence the reason why they are probably refusing to do a residency certificate.

[JackThompson]

Some offices have been reported to do a residency-cert without issue for those with your Visa-type.  It is a no-charge service, but some offices are reported to charge for it, or charge if you want it relatively soon.  If that office is being careful, and do not want to request payment for a "free" service directly, maybe an "agent" in your area can arrange it for a fee.  If this is not possible, then you would have to inquire with your passport-country embassy for one.

 

The visa was designed to allow up to a near-continuous stay, as evidenced by no "stay out time" specified for its use, between leaving and returning.  Those at the top, who literally write the rules, could have added that stipulation at any time, they had intended a more limited use of the visa.  But as there is limited oversight of local offices and entry-points, we can only do our best to avoid the bad ones, when possible.  It's tough, though, when it is your local office, since the only way around it is to literally move (speaking as someone who did, in part to escape a corrupt office).

Edited January 2, 2019 by JackThompson

[Myran]

Couldn't you extend your stay with 60 days for the purpose of visiting your wife? That way, you'd have to do a 90 day report, which is what many offices demand in order to issue the certificate of residence.

[The Old Bull]

Renewed my drivers license a week ago . Took in a copy of my O visa, yellow book and passport. I even spent 300฿ on a medical that nobody wanted to look at. No problem.

[ramr]

11 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Some offices have been reported to do a residency-cert without issue for those with your Visa-type.  It is a no-charge service, but some offices are reported to charge for it, or charge if you want it relatively soon.  If that office is being careful, and do not want to request payment for a "free" service directly, maybe an "agent" in your area can arrange it for a fee.

 

Wow.  Love the quote marks around "agent."  I read you loud and clear.

 

 

11 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The visa was designed to allow up to a near-continuous stay, as evidenced by no "stay out time" specified for its use, between leaving and returning.  Those at the top, who literally write the rules, could have added that stipulation at any time, they had intended a more limited use of the visa.  But as there is limited oversight of local offices and entry-points, we can only do our best to avoid the bad ones, when possible.  It's tough, though, when it is your local office, since the only way around it is to literally move (speaking as someone who did, in part to escape a corrupt office).

 

Yes, I used to live in the jurisdiction of a notoriously horrible office...I know how that feels.  Multiple complaints (not from me personally, but from others with much greater Thai social standing) to Bangkok with documentation, but they washed their hands of it completely.

 

[jackdd]

First you should go there by yourself and try it.

If they really refuse it you can still decide to do your things in Udon Thani, here it's quite easy, about 4 months ago i got one with a tourist visa.

 

1 hour ago, ramr said:

that I wouldn't be considered as having a residency in Thailand.

You are no resident, you are "staying in Thailand temporarily" (that's about how Thai law calls it), but so is everybody else who is here an any type of permit of stay other than permanent residency ????

Edited January 2, 2019 by jackdd

[ramr]

6 minutes ago, The Old Bull said:

Renewed my drivers license a week ago . Took in a copy of my O visa, yellow book and passport. I even spent 300฿ on a medical that nobody wanted to look at. No problem.

Thanks for the info, but you also have to go through the immigration office to get the yellow book and the requirements for the residence certificate are but a subset of the requirements for a yellow tabien baan.  If they won't give me a residence certificate, they're definitely not going to give me a yellow book.

[ramr]

4 minutes ago, jackdd said:

First you should go there by yourself and try it.

If they really refuse it you can still decide to do your things in Udon Thani, here it's quite easy, about 4 months ago i got one with a tourist visa.

 

a) You got a residency certificate with a *tourist visa* (?!)

 

b) How on earth does Udon have jurisdiction over Nong Khai?  

[ramr]

9 minutes ago, jackdd said:

 You are no resident, you are "staying in Thailand temporarily" (that's about how Thai law calls it), but so is everybody else who is here an any type of permit of stay other than permanent residency ????

 

I didn't mean to imply that I should be considered a *permanent* resident...I know PR status is a whole different kettle of fish.  I just meant for the purposes of what I'm trying to do.

[jackdd]

Just now, ramr said:

 

a) You got a residency certificate with a *tourist visa* (?!)

 

b) How on earth does Udon have jurisdiction over Nong Khai?  

Yes, with a 60 day tourist visa. But i've also gotten one with a 30 day visa exempt last year here in Udon Thani.

 

They don't have jurisdication over Nong Khai, but Udon is less than an hour away from Nong Khai, so i think it's not too difficult to come here to get your certificate of residence and your driving license

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, ramr said:

 

a) You got a residency certificate with a *tourist visa* (?!)

 

b) How on earth does Udon have jurisdiction over Nong Khai?  

It doesn't have any jurisdiction. Unless you do a change of address to Udon Thani and lodge a TM30, you won't get one there. The certificates are also province specific. You couldn't for instance obtain one at Chonburi immigration by booking into a hotel and use it in Bangkok. That wouldn't work.

[ramr]

4 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

It doesn't have any jurisdiction. Unless you do a change of address to Udon Thani and lodge a TM30, you won't get one there. The certificates are also province specific. You couldn't for instance obtain one at Chonburi immigration by booking into a hotel and use it in Bangkok. That wouldn't work.

 

Don't have a long-term rental agreement in Udon upon which to base a change of address and TM30, so no go there.

I suppose I could check into a hotel in Udon and *hope* they register me with immigration as they are required to do, but many don't bother...or don't bother unless the person is going to stay a longer time (7+ or 10+ days is a figure I commonly hear).

[ramr]

47 minutes ago, Myran said:

Couldn't you extend your stay with 60 days for the purpose of visiting your wife? That way, you'd have to do a 90 day report, which is what many offices demand in order to issue the certificate of residence.

 

That's a possibility.  I'll check into it, thanks...

[Lovethailandelite]

8 minutes ago, ramr said:

 

Don't have a long-term rental agreement in Udon upon which to base a change of address and TM30, so no go there.

I suppose I could check into a hotel in Udon and *hope* they register me with immigration as they are required to do, but many don't bother...or don't bother unless the person is going to stay a longer time (7+ or 10+ days is a figure I commonly hear).

Then you will need to do your licence in Udon which in turn will be a totally different address on your licence to your vehicles and insurance.

[Lovethailandelite]

9 minutes ago, ramr said:

 

That's a possibility.  I'll check into it, thanks...

You still don't do 90 day reporting even with the 60 day extension to visit your wife. That's not how it works.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Lovethailandelite

[jackdd]

2 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

You still don't do 90 day reporting even with the 60 extension to visit your wife. That's not how it works.

You have to do 90 day reporting if you stay in the country for more than 90 days, if he gets the extension to visit his wife he has to make a 90 day report

 

3 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Then you will need to do your licence in Udon which in turn will be a totally different address on your licence to your vehicles and insurance.

This doesn't matter for anything

Edited January 2, 2019 by jackdd

[ramr]

8 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Then you will need to do your licence in Udon which in turn will be a totally different address on your licence to your vehicles and insurance.

 

Exactly.  And I don't want to mess with that. 

[Lovethailandelite]

11 minutes ago, jackdd said:

You have to do 90 day reporting if you stay in the country for more than 90 days, if he gets the extension to visit his wife he has to make a 90 day report

 

This doesn't matter for anything

No he doesn't. That's not how it works.

[JackThompson]

13 minutes ago, jackdd said:

14 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

You still don't do 90 day reporting even with the 60 extension to visit your wife. That's not how it works.

You have to do 90 day reporting if you stay in the country for more than 90 days, if he gets the extension to visit his wife he has to make a 90 day report

I got a 60-day extension once and asked about 90-day reporting - was told it is not needed in that case, as the application for the extension was counted as reporting.  I'm not saying this makes since, given annual-extensions don't count as 90-day reports.  But then, the 90-day / TM-6 / TM-28 / TM-30 overlapping reporting morass is a mess to begin with, so expecting consistency in this area would be unwise.

[ramr]

6 minutes ago, jackdd said:

You have to do 90 day reporting if you stay in the country for more than 90 days, if he gets the extension to visit his wife he has to make a 90 day report

 

Ok, well, I'll have to check into that, since the two of you don't have a consensus on this. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, jackdd said:

 

This doesn't matter for anything

Perhaps for now.  Then again, a few short years ago neither did people staying here for years with a zillion back-to-back visa exempt runs or tourists visas...or any number of other things they're clamping down on...both for tourists and long-termers.

 

If needs must, then I might have to consider the Udon option, but I'm really not comfortable with it.  Still, I'm happy for any and all ideas brainstormed in this thread.  Thanks.
 

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, ramr said:

 

Ok, well, I'll have to check into that, since the two of you don't have a consensus on this. 

 

 

Perhaps for now.  Then again, a few short years ago neither did people staying here for years with a zillion back-to-back visa exempt runs or tourists visas...or any number of other things they're clamping down on...both for tourists and long-termers.

 

If needs must, then I might have to consider the Udon option, but I'm really not comfortable with it.  Still, I'm happy for any and all ideas brainstormed in this thread.  Thanks.
 

I don't need a consensus on it. You simply don't 90 day reporting on a 60 day extension to visit your wife, as you wouldn't if you extended a 60 day tourist visa to visit your wife.
And I have explained how to get a resident certificate....Go too your embassy and get one.

[elviajero]

54 minutes ago, jackdd said:

You are no resident, you are "staying in Thailand temporarily" (that's about how Thai law calls it), but so is everybody else who is here an any type of permit of stay other than permanent residency ????

The OP is clearly resident - residing - in Thailand. You are conflating immigration status with residency status; the latter being where they live permanently or for a long time. And permanent residency is a misnomer. They issue a 'Resident Permit' when someone is granted indefinite (not permanent) leave to remain.

 

Residency certificates are just to confirm you live at an address. They have nothing to do with legal residential status or immigration status.

 

The only and simple reason some offices will only issue them to those with long term temporary stay is because you are known to them, and they have already confirmed the address. Some offices/ers have been known to issue them to anyone, and some IO's do them because they can scam a few baht out of the applicant.

 

Unless their has been a change to the TIB policy, officially, certificates are only supposed to be issued to visitors that have extensions of stay issued by immigration.

[Lovethailandelite]

24 minutes ago, jackdd said:

You have to do 90 day reporting if you stay in the country for more than 90 days, if he gets the extension to visit his wife he has to make a 90 day report

 

This doesn't matter for anything

Sorry but you people are a liability. Not only too yourselves but to others that know no better other than to listen to you. You really should stop attempting to persuade people to be driving around illegally and quite likely, in an accident, not to have any insurance cover.

[elviajero]

12 minutes ago, ramr said:

29 minutes ago, jackdd said:

You have to do 90 day reporting if you stay in the country for more than 90 days, if he gets the extension to visit his wife he has to make a 90 day report

Ok, well, I'll have to check into that, since the two of you don't have a consensus on this. 

When you apply for the 60 day extension it is considered the 90 days report (address report), so you do not have to make an additional report or complete a TM.47.

[Chicken George]

Get a yellow home book and you dont need a resendency cert.

[skatewash]

4 minutes ago, Chicken George said:

Get a yellow home book and you dont need a resendency cert.

LOL, a requirement to get a yellow book in most amphoes is to have a residency certificate from immigration.

[DPKANKAN]

18 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Bangkok immigration won't issue them either unless you are doing 90 day reporting.
Good news is you can obtain one from your embassy.

Kanchanaburi immigration won't do it. I went to the main Amphur office in town to get mine.

[TKDfella]

19 hours ago, ramr said:

Thanks for the info, but you also have to go through the immigration office to get the yellow book and the requirements for the residence certificate are but a subset of the requirements for a yellow tabien baan.  If they won't give me a residence certificate, they're definitely not going to give me a yellow book.

The yellow book is issued by the Amphoe office, not immigration. Immigration use that for address confirmation.