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British expat says error on Thai Airways website resulted in 80,000THB of extra charges, then airline refused to refund


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23 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

The post says it has already been sorted out and the bank refunded his money. It is always better to use a credit card and then a debit card. US debit cards have the same protection of credit card against fraudulent charges. It must be the same for UK debit card also. However, for debit card, they will take your cash first and it can take up to two weeks for the refund available to you in your account. 

 

In the US, a customer obligation is only $50 for fraudulent charges. Banks always honor 100% for online transaction. You don't need to prove any thing. Only sign a document that you're telling the truth. 

So many mistruths about the chargeback process in this thread.  Thai Airways will be given the opportunity to contest the chargeback by presenting evidence to their payment processor (KBank/SCB/Bluepay whatever) who will forward it onto the network probably Visa or Mastercard (applies to debit as well) in this case for them to make a decision, this won't be submitted as a fraud case, based on the information from the customer - Barclays would of likely submitted the chargeback as an error charge where customer attempted resolution with the merchant had failed - this is for ThaiAirways to contest. If network upholds the charge then Barclays will redebit his account for the full amount - this would of been explained in the letter he gets a few days later.    It is of course possible Thai Airways won't contest the charge given the admin work invovled.

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

These sort of responses offered with false authority really irk me, because they offer a solution that isn't necessarily there.

Why? The obligation is on the card holder to show that the  transaction is wrong. The CC will not "sort" it out.

 

No they won't. TG generates  significant transactions for the banking groups and cc pools. Do you really believe that they can just "fine" a state controlled multi national? Seriously? If a CC tries to strongarm the Thai state it will find itself at a disadvantage, quickly. The obligation is on the customer to prove the error and so far there is no written evidence, just  verbal allegations of wrongdoing.

 

As witnessed from the OP, the CC did sort it out, and rightly so, it is downright idiotic to believe an amount of almost 2000 GBP is just for 20 KG additional baggage. Thai Airways should be ashamed at the way they handled this problem, and to me, name and shame is entirely justified. The more people hear about this the better, maybe Thai Airways will change their tune, whenever someone comes with a similar complaint. Absolutely disgraceful how they handled this case.

 

If I were you, I would retract this post, it shows quite clearly you lack any common sense in the matter, and no the onus is not on the card holder in this case. Each and every bank would retract this transaction, because logic quite clearly indicates this cannot be right. 

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12 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

These sort of responses offered with false authority really irk me, because they offer a solution that isn't necessarily there.

Why? The obligation is on the card holder to show that the  transaction is wrong. The CC will not "sort" it out.

 

No they won't. TG generates  significant transactions for the banking groups and cc pools. Do you really believe that they can just "fine" a state controlled multi national? Seriously? If a CC tries to strongarm the Thai state it will find itself at a disadvantage, quickly. The obligation is on the customer to prove the error and so far there is no written evidence, just  verbal allegations of wrongdoing.

 

This is all pretty moot anyway because he used his debit card.

 

 

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Soz chaps, time to chuck a spear in the spokes 😁

 

I have flown to Thailand eight times in the last couple of years and have used Thai Airways for all of those - with the exception of one flight.

 

I book through Expedia and go from Heathrow to Swampy in cattle class.

 

I have always found that from check-in to check-out, the level of service has been nothing but exemplary. The staff on the plane are attentive, polite and accommodating, and will help with any request. Speak to them and they are polite and helpful. I find the grub is really nice too.

 

I am going out again in March on THAI and will no doubt experience the same pleasant and relaxing 11 hour cruise.

 

The exception I mentioned was with EVA. That was nothing less than horrendous. Surly and rude staff who couldn’t give monkey’s giblets about the comfort of the customer. Virtually chucked your food at you at din-dins time, and if you spoke to them – just expect pig-ignorant grunts in reply.

 

I guess there has to be one exception to the rule, and I’m really glad it’s me 😁

 

 

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4 hours ago, digitalnobhead said:

this is for ThaiAirways to contest. If network upholds the charge then Barclays will redebit his account for the full amount

The guy said the amount shown was in THB but they charged him in GBP. So Thai Airways now has to prove that their claim is correct and that it showed GBP when the guy confirmed to purchase it, which is impossible for them to do.

They should obviously just have agreed to refund him in the first place, it's quite clear that he didn't want to buy additional luggage for 3 times the price of the airfare. But customer service in Thailand...

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58 minutes ago, jackdd said:

The guy said the amount shown was in THB but they charged him in GBP. So Thai Airways now has to prove that their claim is correct and that it showed GBP when the guy confirmed to purchase it, which is impossible for them to do.

They should obviously just have agreed to refund him in the first place, it's quite clear that he didn't want to buy additional luggage for 3 times the price of the airfare. But customer service in Thailand...

The price of excess luggage is nothing to do with the price paid for airfare. The OP should have read the Thai excess baggage charge page (and many of the contributors here). The price he says he was quoted? Well clearly a mistake either in the telling or in the hearing. 

https://www.thaiairways.com/en/plan/travel_information/baggage.page

 

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14 hours ago, kkerry said:

I'm surprised people still book on their website.

Unless things have changed recently, the prices for booking on the Thai Airways site were always more expensive than doing so through a good local travel agent in my experience. Same for Cathay Pacific.

Not so re Cathay Pacific. Better to use the Cathay Pacific website most of the time. Fly Cathay a lot.

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Best tool in one's arsenal. Suitcase scales. Inever leave home without them.

Not that they would have helped the OP.

But, it has reminded me to screenshot everytime I pay/get quotes online

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18 hours ago, billd766 said:

Go back to the CC company and explain it to them. They should be able to sort it out.

Read the whole post. He went back to Barclays and all is sorted out.

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4 hours ago, PhilAtUbon said:

Soz chaps, time to chuck a spear in the spokes 😁

 

I have flown to Thailand eight times in the last couple of years and have used Thai Airways for all of those - with the exception of one flight.

 

I book through Expedia and go from Heathrow to Swampy in cattle class.

 

I have always found that from check-in to check-out, the level of service has been nothing but exemplary. The staff on the plane are attentive, polite and accommodating, and will help with any request. Speak to them and they are polite and helpful. I find the grub is really nice too.

 

I am going out again in March on THAI and will no doubt experience the same pleasant and relaxing 11 hour cruise.

 

The exception I mentioned was with EVA. That was nothing less than horrendous. Surly and rude staff who couldn’t give monkey’s giblets about the comfort of the customer. Virtually chucked your food at you at din-dins time, and if you spoke to them – just expect pig-ignorant grunts in reply.

 

I guess there has to be one exception to the rule, and I’m really glad it’s me 😁

 

 

You don't chuck a spear in the spokes because what you have to say is irrelevant.

 

Few people would deny that flying Thai is a pleasant experience on most occasions, though older members will remember when Thai was actually a world leader.

 

The point at issue is what happens when something goes wrong in relation to booking on the website. I am quite bored by the BA experience but its website and booking process is streets ahead of Thai's. And in the event of something going wrong who do you think is going to take better care of you.?

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Best tool in one's arsenal. Suitcase scales. Inever leave home without them.
Not that they would have helped the OP.
But, it has reminded me to screenshot everytime I pay/get quotes online

Exactly.

I now screenshot any transaction online, car rental, flight or hotel etc usually a few times during each process to give you a step by step record.
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16 hours ago, HalfLight said:

Sorry guys, this is Thailand. Can anyone put hand on heart, and so they are honestly surprised?

 

I can't and I'm not.

 

When dealing with a Thai business, you always need to be reminded a few things:

 

1. If there is a dispute which might hang on and incompetence, mistake, or lack of understanding on behalf of the business, the staff will try to protect the business from loss of face by denying responsibility on behalf of the business, and often being rude in the process (especially if it's a foreigner making the query).

 

2. If you try to escalate the problem to a manager, the staff will perceive a risk of loss of face by themselves and will either simply refuse to put you through, or will make a series of outlandish claims, the most popular of which is "Solly manager in meeting". If in doubt as to the real position, always assume that the Thai staff are lying.

 

3. Staff in many Thai businesses are told never to put the customer through to a manager, the manager is much too important to be bothered with mere customers.

 

4. Management in most Thai business is based on the rule of 80/20, in that systems are designed to cope with 80% of the customer throughput, and the 20% which does not adhere to the management model can go and get stuffed, the business is prepared to lose that 20%. This means that there is no 'management by exception', and staff will routinely get rid of you anyway they can, as quickly as they can. Do not expect a return call. Do not expect the manager to call you back. Do not expect the business to give a damn whether you do ever business with them again or not. Too many years living high on the hog has meant that business in Thailand seems very peculiar. especially if you have been part of management in a foreign business prior to arrival in Thailand., which explains why Thailand's acquisition of companies on foreign lands usually fail, though there have been exceptions.

 

Bleak but true. The expression 'caveat emptor' holds a special and powerful message in Thailand where the staff are incompetent, and any member of staff who is marginally less than completely incompetent will be promoted to management where their main job thereafter is to sit on their backside and salute when their boss comes past. Also bleak but true.

 

 

 

Excellent post, especially point 2.

 

I had frequent problems with my internet connection (breaking down entirely) for the first few years, and 'phoning customer services was always told the same thing 'A technician will sort it out/we'll 'phone you back'  Of course nobody ever 'phoned me back, and it always took a few days (one time, 2 weeks!) before my internet connection was restored.

 

As described by HalfLight, when I got fed up with 'phoning customer services every day for a few days (only getting the same response), and asked to talk to a manager - the response was 'he's not here at the moment/he's in a meeting, but will 'phone you back'.  Of course, the manager never 'phoned me back....

 

But there is good news!

 

Eventually, I got bad-tempered about it, and was rude enough to tell the customer service lady that I knew she was lying (this time I was told that the manager only worked a few hours a week....) and if he was in a meeting, I'd hold on until the meeting had finished so that I could talk to him.  Funnily enough, a few minutes later I was put through to the manager.....

 

He promised that he'd talk to the manager at the local office to ensure that my connection was quickly fixed, and that he'd 'phone me back after talking to the local manager - and he did!  He continued 'phoning me with updates, and when my connection was restored (a few hours later or the next day), he 'phoned me again to check that my internet connection was back!

 

Since then, any internet problems I've had have been quickly fixed as, I assume (?) a note has been put on their computer files that I'm possibly a 'problem' customer who WILL insist on talking to a manger if necessary :smile:.

 

Sorry for the long, off-topic post - but I hope it will help a few other posters who are continually fobbed off by customer services.

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It sounds like something that could happen with Thai Airways. I have always considered them to be way over rated, and have never been impressed with their service. A bit haughty it seems. I try to avoid patronizing government monopolies in general, and especially this airline. 

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19 hours ago, Cadbury said:

This airline is surely run by incompetents, what else would explain why they are losing millions of dollars a month and having to be propped up by an equally incompetent government.

I have said many times on this forum that Thai Airways is one of the longest-running wealth transfer schemes in Thailand. It transfers wealth from the general public, the taxpayer to a select bunch of connected people who hold positions in the government, in the RTAF and at Thai Airways.

 

So, in answer to your comment, the company is not run by incompetents but by competent people who have self-interest at heart.

 

Thai has been consistently bailed out by the Thai taxpayer over decades, sometimes overtly and other times by more opaque means. The reason they continue to lose large amounts of money is not because they are incompetent but rather that losing money (in the right way) is the very goal. The losses in the financial statements has a lot to do with having lots of people on salaries and benefits who are not productive, a lot of corrupt losses in purchases and capital expenditure, overly generous directors' emoluments, free flights for government officials, basically all costs that benefit connected individuals and could be stripped out if the management had cost-cutting as a priority.

 

Thai Airways has continued to be used in this manner by all shades of governments. It is not specifically related to this administration.

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21 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

I have said many times on this forum that Thai Airways is one of the longest-running wealth transfer schemes in Thailand. It transfers wealth from the general public, the taxpayer to a select bunch of connected people who hold positions in the government, in the RTAF and at Thai Airways.

 

So, in answer to your comment, the company is not run by incompetents but by competent people who have self-interest at heart.

 

Thai has been consistently bailed out by the Thai taxpayer over decades, sometimes overtly and other times by more opaque means. The reason they continue to lose large amounts of money is not because they are incompetent but rather that losing money (in the right way) is the very goal. The losses in the financial statements has a lot to do with having lots of people on salaries and benefits who are not productive, a lot of corrupt losses in purchases and capital expenditure, overly generous directors' emoluments, free flights for government officials, basically all costs that benefit connected individuals and could be stripped out if the management had cost-cutting as a priority.

 

Thai Airways has continued to be used in this manner by all shades of governments. It is not specifically related to this administration.

 

"free flights for government officials"

 

Ah yes, this old Thaivisa chestnut. It's not actually true but hey, what does that matter? Right?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, thedemon said:

 

"free flights for government officials"

 

Ah yes, this old Thaivisa chestnut. It's not actually true but hey, what does that matter? Right?

 

 

Thai MP's were given free business class flights back to their constituencies on Thai Airways. Other than there having been no MP's for a while due to the coup, has this changed?

 

You haven't addressed the substance of my post.

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3 minutes ago, thedemon said:

 

"free flights for government officials"

 

Ah yes, this old Thaivisa chestnut. It's not actually true but hey, what does that matter? Right?

 

 

Well... They do have a special check-in line for government officials which seems odd.  Infact, they have all sorts of odd titled overstaffed checkin lines, at least there is rarely a queue unless you have the misfortune of being stuck behind a chinese tour group, but then they wave you "you european!" to the next desk.

 

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57 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Excellent post, especially point 2.

 

I had frequent problems with my internet connection (breaking down entirely) for the first few years, and 'phoning customer services was always told the same thing 'A technician will sort it out/we'll 'phone you back'  Of course nobody ever 'phoned me back, and it always took a few days (one time, 2 weeks!) before my internet connection was restored.

 

As described by HalfLight, when I got fed up with 'phoning customer services every day for a few days (only getting the same response), and asked to talk to a manager - the response was 'he's not here at the moment/he's in a meeting, but will 'phone you back'.  Of course, the manager never 'phoned me back....

 

But there is good news!

 

Eventually, I got bad-tempered about it, and was rude enough to tell the customer service lady that I knew she was lying (this time I was told that the manager only worked a few hours a week....) and if he was in a meeting, I'd hold on until the meeting had finished so that I could talk to him.  Funnily enough, a few minutes later I was put through to the manager.....

 

He promised that he'd talk to the manager at the local office to ensure that my connection was quickly fixed, and that he'd 'phone me back after talking to the local manager - and he did!  He continued 'phoning me with updates, and when my connection was restored (a few hours later or the next day), he 'phoned me again to check that my internet connection was back!

 

Since then, any internet problems I've had have been quickly fixed as, I assume (?) a note has been put on their computer files that I'm possibly a 'problem' customer who WILL insist on talking to a manger if necessary :smile:.

 

Sorry for the long, off-topic post - but I hope it will help a few other posters who are continually fobbed off by customer services.

She who must be obeyed notes down times dates etc and next time she goes to pay the bill asks for a claims form fills it in and gets 48 baht back for each time it's over x hours. ( I'm not sure )

Yes, I know it's not much but she does it just to annoy them, and I get a couple of beers out of it. 😆😆

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i have problem w 34.000 thb

 

payed with pin ( aroved payment)

 

Oman air

after entering the payment, i waited and than comes 

 

 

Payent done- Matching Payment could not be found

clearly problem of thir system, payment cant be adjusted to existin gooking

 

Money gone, Hotline say not payed  all blablbla   no investigation even wehn i forward them the mail from bangkokbank

 

they still ignorre the mail from the bank, so takes me 1-2 month until back the money ,or 6 like beforee

bangkokbank

 

Bangkok Bank Credit Card <[email protected]>

To:PXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Jan 16 at 4:11 PM

Dear       Mr. PXXXXXXXXXX mXXXXXXX

                Bangkok Bank Public Company Limited would like to inform that the following transaction from “OMAN AIR" was made to your VISA Platinum Credit Card number 454 XXXX XXX  XXXX amount  34,xxx bath  time 06.24 pm.on XX/01/2019

has already been approved and currently waited for merchant settlement.

 

Yours sincerely,

Cardmember Service Section

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15 hours ago, Dufnu007 said:

I am a travel agent and I used to work a lot with TG during the 80s and the 90s. On that time, I also was a gold member on TG as I travel from Europe to Thailand 4 to 5 times a year for more than 30 years and it really was such a pleasant company ( as smooth as silk ) but since the begining of the 2000, they disapointed me so much in so many ways, that I never worked or travelled with them anymore, using any other airlines instead, mostly Emirates or Etihad. Now, even for domestic flights I try as much as I can to avoid flying TG... Such a bad service !

I agree as I used to consider TG a good airline, and their prices were very good too.

 

Things changed, so I started using Emirates when the TG service declined - whilst their prices increased.

 

I don't mind paying a bit more for a slightly bigger seat, a bit more leg room etc., but TG turned into a bad service/seats as per the economy airlines - whilst still charging premium operator prices :sad:.

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35 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Indeed and while I often criticise TG for their loss making business model, their discounts for all government employees and their kowtowing to hi-so groups, their in-flight service, especially in business, is fantastic.

 

Is it mostly the older, male, buy-a-bride crowd that fly over to pay women to pretend to love them that seem to hate all things Thai including Thai Airways? Or is it just my imagination?

Yes, it is just your imagination.

 

I'm a female, and my husband and I initially used TG for our various holidays to Thailand - before changing to Emirates who provided a better service with a slightly bigger seat and leg room, for the same (or perhaps marginally higher) cost.

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1 hour ago, Briggsy said:

I have said many times on this forum that Thai Airways is one of the longest-running wealth transfer schemes in Thailand. It transfers wealth from the general public, the taxpayer to a select bunch of connected people who hold positions in the government, in the RTAF and at Thai Airways.

 

So, in answer to your comment, the company is not run by incompetents but by competent people who have self-interest at heart.

 

Thai has been consistently bailed out by the Thai taxpayer over decades, sometimes overtly and other times by more opaque means. The reason they continue to lose large amounts of money is not because they are incompetent but rather that losing money (in the right way) is the very goal. The losses in the financial statements has a lot to do with having lots of people on salaries and benefits who are not productive, a lot of corrupt losses in purchases and capital expenditure, overly generous directors' emoluments, free flights for government officials, basically all costs that benefit connected individuals and could be stripped out if the management had cost-cutting as a priority.

 

Thai Airways has continued to be used in this manner by all shades of governments. It is not specifically related to this administration.

Maybe your comment about the Thai Airways being run by competent people is not altogether true. Rich people with self-interest yes but for a few of them their incompetency has been exposed.

If they were competent they would not have been caught caught in the share trading scam with Thai Airways shares that has just been exposed.

It is reported elsewhere today where the Chairman Dr. Prasert and his sidekick Mrs Narumon 
have been fined almost 500 million baht for share manipulation. Both have  been barred from holding directorships of listed companies. Dr. Prasert has resigned his positions as Chairman of Thai Airways.

That sort of outcome doesn't come from being competent; it comes from being corrupt, greedy and foolish. Sorry i can't provide the link.

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2 hours ago, Cadbury said:

Maybe your comment about the Thai Airways being run by competent people is not altogether true. Rich people with self-interest yes but for a few of them their incompetency has been exposed.

If they were competent they would not have been caught caught in the share trading scam with Thai Airways shares that has just been exposed.

It is reported elsewhere today where the Chairman Dr. Prasert and his sidekick Mrs Narumon 
have been fined almost 500 million baht for share manipulation. Both have  been barred from holding directorships of listed companies. Dr. Prasert has resigned his positions as Chairman of Thai Airways.

That sort of outcome doesn't come from being competent; it comes from being corrupt, greedy and foolish. Sorry i can't provide the link.

 

Thai Airways?... or did you mean Bangkok Airways?

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20 hours ago, DrTuner said:

News like this, acquaintances that used to fly Thai and one friend who used to work for them are enough to deter me, let somchais fly their own contraptions. SG airlines has been chosen as top airline year after year and my experiences with them have been very good.

"... acquaintances that used to fly Thai and one friend who used to work for them..."

Nothing but hearsay, then!

 

"SG airlines has been chosen as top airline year after year..."

Only if you ignore the years when it didn't win!   It won last year after 10 years of not winning the top airline award.

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12 minutes ago, kkerry said:

 

Thai Airways?... or did you mean Bangkok Airways?

Why would you think I meant Bangkok Airways when I specifically referred to Thai Airways?

The prime story in the news is about Thai Airways shares. 

It so happens the filthy rich primary culprit involved in the share price manipulation with Thai Airways shares also owns 92% of Bangkok Airways. Greed for money is the root of all evil.

All three scoundrels involved have all been banned from being executives or directors of listed companies.

 

 

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To the OP I flow back in on a return and had similar issue, i Phoned up as a air mile collector to check price, 10 kg was around 20-30 k baht.

I figured the stress was not worth it and upgraded for the price you say you were charged

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5 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Thai MP's were given free business class flights back to their constituencies on Thai Airways. Other than there having been no MP's for a while due to the coup, has this changed?

 

You haven't addressed the substance of my post.

 

There was a time, long ago in the days prior to LC airlines when TG had a virtual monopoly on domestic flights and all fares were fixed that Government Officers of a certain rank were entitled to 50% discount ONLY when on Government business.

 

But apart from being years ago that could hardly be described as "free flights for government officials" could it?

 

You also state "Thai has been consistently bailed out by the Thai taxpayer over decades" when in fact THAI recorded the first loss in its then 40 year history in 2008. Decades?

 

As for addressing the substance of your post, what is to address? It is all hearsay and opinion that you are unable to back up in any meaningful way. 

 

Not to say there are no flaws in the way THAI Airways is run. There are many. But this thread is 95% lies and nonsense starting with the op headline saying there was an error on THAI Airway website. There is no error. The headline might more accurately say "Idiot British Expat makes mistake on website and demands refund"

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So first things first, prices are always shown in the currency of origin therefore the price would not have been shown in baht, presuming the article is correct and he was flying from london.

 

Secondly looking in the thai airways website the cost for extra luggage is 70USD per KG ( which yes its a rip off but it is what it is) do the maths 20kg x 70 = 1400 usd which is actually more than he paid so really he got a better deal somehow.

 

Will be interesting to see what his credit card company say as thai airways were actually correct and had every right not to refund the guy. 

 

Now the guys cheating his way to free luggage from the simple fact he cant read.

 

Interesting

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