Rainwater

[bubbaba]

Thailand seems to have an abundance of water when it rains and a shortage of water most of the other times. I think if properly managed water could be available year around. However, what is the best method of doing this?

If you live, as I do, outside of town, in the country so to speak, how do you store your rainwater? Do you just let it run off and away? Do you store the water in some type of container, pond?

I would like any and all information, ideas, etc on this subject.

[jackr]

All will be revealed here

[Diablo Bob]

Thailand seems to have an abundance of water when it rains and a shortage of water most of the other times. I think if properly managed water could be available year around. However, what is the best method of doing this?

If you live, as I do, outside of town, in the country so to speak, how do you store your rainwater? Do you just let it run off and away? Do you store the water in some type of container, pond?

I would like any and all information, ideas, etc on this subject.

I have been looking into this very subject in preparation for a project in Issan that I hope to start someday.

I have researched rainwater harvesting, filtration, storage, solar and conveyance on the internet. Anything is possible depending on how much you want to spend and your ultimate expectations for your system. Ohh and how much land/area you have to play with......

Storage tanks can/are constructed but the your usage will really determine the size needed. In my research I have found varying figures for rainfall amounts, anywhere from 1500mm/yr to 2800mm/yr depending on location and reporting agency. The only thing they agree upon is that you will see 90% of the rain in a 4 month period. This being acknowledged, this means that your usage over 12 months needs to be saved over a 4 month period meaning a larger storage system. Your usage will ultimately determine the size of this storage system. In my research the given usage on most web sites is around 50gal/day excluding landscaping water, but these figures are from the West where you have dishwashers and people wash 5 loads of clothes a day etc. I am still looking for itemized figures.

Filtration can be either simple or complex, again depending on your usage and storage. If you use a pond to store water then the filtration system will need to be more complex if you intend to use the water for cooking and bathing. There are natural filtration system designs which can help in suspended particulates but will not address bacteria, viruses or heavy metals, these would need to be handled by other systems.

Pumps for conveyance was an interesting search and I have actually started looking at the solar pumps available today. I have found solar water well pumps which will pump 100 gal/hr to solar circulation pumps which pump 200 gal/min. The sky is the limit as long as your pocketbook is bulging.

What I am saying is that the saving of rain is common in many parts of the world, and just not the developing world. Australia comes to mind for many of the products and systems I mention are from Australia.

PM me and I can send you the web sites I have saved so far, some are for ideas and some are for available products.

[sceadugenga]

There's fairly good water management where I live near Chiang Rai. Most mountain streams are dammed and the water runs though sluice gates in the dry season into klongs of various sizes, ranging from rice field irrigation size down to tiny ditches for cottage gardens. Works well in hilly country, it's easier to dam than to dig and to gravity feed rather than to pump.

[kmart]

There might be another water shortage this year in Rayong. The heavy industry here uses enormous amounts of water, not to mention all the bloody golf courses....

There was not enough water for domestic use a couple of years ago, and local residents launched massive protests about it.

There should be some cohesive waste water management or desalination of sea water plants being built here, and I think the last govt. had plans to build something along those lines, but you know what happened there......

[Jet Gorgon]

A small suggestion, not on the scale of Diabo's excellent detailed studies and plans, but we placed huge ceramic barrels under the eaves pipes. Cover with netting to prevent skitters from laying eggs. Good for gardening, washing up and even scoop showers when the well runs dry or the electric goes off. Or you could do like the ancient Laotians and get super size vessels and make your own "enigmatic" plain of jars. Side bennie: Attract tourists and charge a fee.

[richard10365]

My wifes family is in Phayao. The local government where she is from is digging ponds for whoever wants them for free. All they had to do is give up the dirt to be used to reinforce the local reservoir. There are holes all over the place now.

[astral]

I am not sure that the holes will help, unless they are lined.

Once the water table drops, all the holes will be empty.

[richard10365]

I am not sure that the holes will help, unless they are lined.

Once the water table drops, all the holes will be empty.

They had some holes there before. They usually don't empty until they get used for the farms during the dry season.

[jayjayjayjay]

I am not sure that the holes will help, unless they are lined.

Once the water table drops, all the holes will be empty.

That depends on the clay content of the soil.

High clay content in the soil, or even thin clay layer (5cm +) over a sandy base will be a natural water holding dam. It up to the skill of the guys do the job, and if soil type is availble

[Khonwan]

I built a concrete tank the length of my house, forming my tiled patio. The patio is 15m x 5m. The tank (under the patio) is 15m x 4.5m (0.5m away from the house to prevent rising damp). The tank is 1.47m deep (internal measurement). The tank holds approx. 93,000 litres. It collects rainwater from my roof (approx usable 250sq.m).

I pump water from this tank to my water-tower concrete-tank (4m x 4m x 2m external holding approx. 27,000 litres; this external tank stands at a level equivalent to some 5m above my attic floor). I use a 3-inch Honda petrol water pump, which takes around 35 minutes to fill this tank every 8 weeks (approx). This then gravity-feeds my house for all our domestic needs (the house has no other water source). The household comprises two adults and two children. This total 120,000 litres has to do us for up to 7, or even 8, months. It exactly matches our needs.

[Khonwan]

I built a concrete tank the length of my house, forming my tiled patio. The patio is 15m x 5m. The tank (under the patio) is 15m x 4.5m (0.5m away from the house to prevent rising damp). The tank is 1.47m deep (internal measurement). The tank holds approx. 93,000 litres. It collects rainwater from my roof (approx usable 250sq.m).

I pump water from this tank to my water-tower concrete-tank (4m x 4m x 2m external holding approx. 27,000 litres; this external tank stands at a level equivalent to some 5m above my attic floor). I use a 3-inch Honda petrol water pump, which takes around 35 minutes to fill this tank every 8 weeks (approx). This then gravity-feeds my house for all our domestic needs (the house has no other water source). The household comprises two adults and two children. This total 120,000 litres has to do us for up to 7, or even 8, months. It exactly matches our needs.

I forgot to add that I only filter my drinking water, using a small wall-mounted activated-carbon filter.

[fxm88]

Have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water, or rain water, and only pure grain alcohol? Have you ever heard of a thing called fluoridation? Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?

[altman]

Have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water, or rain water, and only pure grain alcohol? Have you ever heard of a thing called fluoridation? Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?

that noise you just heard was the sound of this thread running off the tracks into voo doo land

[pumpuiman]

All over Isaan I see the big clay/cement pots for storing rainwater. Most households have two or three that are filled by directing the downspouts from the roof in the rainy season.

My sister in law has some. You can just see one here in the background....sorry, best photo I could find.

[pumpuiman]

Here is another pic I found on the web.

[phibunmike]

In advance of any large project for storing water, it might be a good idea to install a meter on your existing supply to get an idea how much you use. I have not got one (it would be easy, all my water comes from my well) but I have read that in Singapore the national average is 18.1 cubic metres per month, if that is any use to you.

[phibunmike]

A while ago I was reading on the internet about building water storage tanks from ferro-cement. I can't find the same website now, but look here:

http://oikos.com/library/water_storage/index.html

http://www.oasisdesign.net/water/storage/

Cheers,

Mike

[billd766]

I have 26 of the concrete storage tanks at 2,000 litres each. They are filled by the government water supply in the wet season and by pumping fro a stream aroud 250 metres in the dry season. On our land there are generally my wife, young son and me, a friend and her young daughter, and 3 or 4 people who work for us. During the harvesting season we had a total of 12 adults, three small children and 2 babies and did we go through water or what!

We get the water from the stream by crossing somebodys land, under the road in a drainpipe, across the front of somebody elses land and about 100 metres across our land.

This week the lady that owns the land by the stream got a bucket scoop in and blocked our normal water pump area and rerouted the stream another 40 metres away. I will find out how good my pump is next week.

For drinking water we use a couple of 3,000 litre stainless steel tanks which generally last the dry season but I dont think they will this year.

I am considering buying drinking water in the 20 litre bottles, normally 10 baht each but 9 baht if I order 50 at one time or 8 baht if I order 100 which is 2,000 litres of drinking water only.

[IvanLaw]

All will be revealed here

Just Looked but

Unfortunately not 100% revelation as you professed

[IvanLaw]

A while ago I was reading on the internet about building water storage tanks from ferro-cement. I can't find the same website now, but look here:

http://oikos.com/library/water_storage/index.html

http://www.oasisdesign.net/water/storage/

Cheers,

Mike

Maybe this one will help you?

varius within the link.

www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ainsworth101.html

At present looking into various methods of storing water ready for our move to Thailand

Including the feasibility of making storage tank underground with house built above.

Dependent on foundations, ground structure etc etc

Regards

[bubbaba]

I built a concrete tank the length of my house, forming my tiled patio. The patio is 15m x 5m. The tank (under the patio) is 15m x 4.5m (0.5m away from the house to prevent rising damp). The tank is 1.47m deep (internal measurement). The tank holds approx. 93,000 litres. It collects rainwater from my roof (approx usable 250sq.m).

I pump water from this tank to my water-tower concrete-tank (4m x 4m x 2m external holding approx. 27,000 litres; this external tank stands at a level equivalent to some 5m above my attic floor). I use a 3-inch Honda petrol water pump, which takes around 35 minutes to fill this tank every 8 weeks (approx). This then gravity-feeds my house for all our domestic needs (the house has no other water source). The household comprises two adults and two children. This total 120,000 litres has to do us for up to 7, or even 8, months. It exactly matches our needs.

Is it possible for you to post photos of construction of the in-ground tank and the tank as it looks now? Also, are you willing to share specifications?

The contractor who is now building my house suggested the (sorry I don't know the proper name for these things)

round cement rings that are used for septic tanks or the larger ones which are about 2 meters dia. He suggested going 3 to 4 meters deep, cementing joints and the floor. Above ground the tanks would look like a covered well. The water could be removed with a small pump as needed. I plan to use this water mostly for landscaping and garden. I did also plan in the future to add a raised tank for household use as you have.

Simply put, I like your plan. It sound like it would fit the bill for most people and conserve yard space too.

[Gary A]

We have two rai of land here at the house. My wife has a small garden and a lot of fruit trees. For the house, watering the garden and trees we use about 750 liters per day. During the rainy season we catch rain water but our storage capacity is only about 4,000 liters so without village water that doesn't last very long. Since the village water has been dependable during the dry season, we have always had enough water. At three baht per cubic meter, it is certainly not expensive. The village water comes from a deep well and is hard water but not as bad as most deep wells. I recently had plans to build an above ground tank to catch rain water that would hold 64 cubic meters but my wife refused to pay the price the contractor quoted. The big jars you see hold about 1,000 liters and cost about 600 baht each. They are cheap enough but are unsightly and take up a lot of room. Rain water is naturally soft and better for all uses so as soon as I figure out what system I want to build, I will go ahead with it. It is sure not cost effective as far as price of village water for me but the advantage of having soft water outweighs the cost of the storage tank. At this point I think a concrete underground tank would be the best. Water towers are great but they are also ugly and expensive. You still need a water pump. I keep two of the 1,000 liter jars filled with village water and pump out of them for the house. The village water doesn't have much pressure but it's enough and that's what we use for the garden and trees.

[jackr]

All will be revealed here

Just Looked but

Unfortunately not 100% revelation as you professed

... and did you look through every page??

[billd766]

Gary A

qoute

The big jars you see hold about 1,000 liters and cost about 600 baht each. They are cheap enough but are unsightly and take up a lot of room.

Gary

The jars that we use up here in central region are (according to the makers) 2,000 litres but only about 1,800 litres are avaiable for use as the 1/2 inch output is about 6 inches above the drain.

Last year they cost me a total of 800 baht, 700 for the tank and 100 baht for the concrete lid whch does not blow away in the strong wind.

My tanks are behind the small house on a slab 8 x 10 metres.

Edited February 26, 2007 by billd766

[Khonwan]

I built a concrete tank the length of my house, forming my tiled patio. The patio is 15m x 5m. The tank (under the patio) is 15m x 4.5m (0.5m away from the house to prevent rising damp). The tank is 1.47m deep (internal measurement). The tank holds approx. 93,000 litres. It collects rainwater from my roof (approx usable 250sq.m).

I pump water from this tank to my water-tower concrete-tank (4m x 4m x 2m external holding approx. 27,000 litres; this external tank stands at a level equivalent to some 5m above my attic floor). I use a 3-inch Honda petrol water pump, which takes around 35 minutes to fill this tank every 8 weeks (approx). This then gravity-feeds my house for all our domestic needs (the house has no other water source). The household comprises two adults and two children. This total 120,000 litres has to do us for up to 7, or even 8, months. It exactly matches our needs.

Is it possible for you to post photos of construction of the in-ground tank and the tank as it looks now? Also, are you willing to share specifications?

The contractor who is now building my house suggested the (sorry I don't know the proper name for these things)

round cement rings that are used for septic tanks or the larger ones which are about 2 meters dia. He suggested going 3 to 4 meters deep, cementing joints and the floor. Above ground the tanks would look like a covered well. The water could be removed with a small pump as needed. I plan to use this water mostly for landscaping and garden. I did also plan in the future to add a raised tank for household use as you have.

Simply put, I like your plan. It sound like it would fit the bill for most people and conserve yard space too.

Hi bubbaba. I built my home and tank 11 years ago. I don't remember whether I took photos of the tank's construction - don't think I have any. Not much to it though. I cant send you a pic of it now either - no digital camera (where are you billd776?).

My house was built on a bit of a slope so the front door (which leads onto the patio - forming the tank cover) was around 1.6m above ground level. The tank was built on top of this ground. From (my poor) memory, my wife's uncle used plywood forms and made concrete mix with the smallest available stone aggregate. It was , of course, reinforced. The whole tank was then rendered internally and externally. I only used local labour and at daily rates. These men and women from the village are farmers who have often also laboured on construction sites. It's not a difficult job for them. It just looks like a raised balcony / patio in front of my house, with 2-metre wide tiled-stairs leading up to it.

Water towers don't need to be ugly. Mine is built behind my house (on land slightly more elevated than the house). The tower is 4m x 4m and is a concrete frame 4-story building. You enter the door at the ground floor (the pump room), ascend the stairs to a DIY/store room, exit and ascend cantilever stairs circumferencing the integrated 2m-high tank to a roofed-sala on top of the concrete-topped tank. My sala gives me a great view overlooking my house, my farm, and the valley.

I have three 1-inch PVC pipes from the water-tower to the house. One are on top of the ground and lead to individual shower heads (piping hot water during the day). The other is buried and leads to all other faucets, toilets, etc. (and to my showers' mixer taps - required to cool the otherwise too hot water).

The petrol-driven pump cost me around 9,000 baht to buy and around 15-20 baht every 2 months in petrol.

No pictures, as I said, but you're welcome to come and see it and share a couple of beers on the patio.

[Gary A]

Gary A

qoute

The big jars you see hold about 1,000 liters and cost about 600 baht each. They are cheap enough but are unsightly and take up a lot of room.

Gary

The jars that we use up here in central region are (according to the makers) 2,000 litres but only about 1,800 litres are avaiable for use as the 1/2 inch output is about 6 inches above the drain.

Last year they cost me a total of 800 baht, 700 for the tank and 100 baht for the concrete lid whch does not blow away in the strong wind.

My tanks are behind the small house on a slab 8 x 10 metres.

Bill, the jars I have are about 60 inches in diameter and about 50 inches high. I'm not smart enough to calculate the volume but if it were a sphere the volume would be considerably more than a thousand liters. My wife is the one who calls them 1,000 liter jars.

[Crossy]

Bill, the jars I have are about 60 inches in diameter and about 50 inches high. I'm not smart enough to calculate the volume but if it were a sphere the volume would be considerably more than a thousand liters. My wife is the one who calls them 1,000 liter jars.

If you assume a sphere of 50" (127 cm) diameter the volume = 4/3 pi r^3 = 4/3 * pi * (127/2)^3 = 1072530 cubic centimetres = 1072L

Hence 1000L jars

[bubbaba]

I need to ask a question. I have forgotten how to do algebra, geometry, etc. Been over 50 years since I went to school and never used math in my work. So, I lost it long time ago.

If you have cement circles, like they use to make septic tanks here in Thailand. But these are two meters dia. by .5 meter height. What is the cubic volume of water that this cement piece would hold providing it had a bottom?

Please provide me with an answer and if you are willing, please explain how to figure volume for circles, cylinders, what ever you call them. I can only figure volume on squares and rectangles.

Thank you,

[billd766]

Gary A

qoute

The big jars you see hold about 1,000 liters and cost about 600 baht each. They are cheap enough but are unsightly and take up a lot of room.

Gary

The jars that we use up here in central region are (according to the makers) 2,000 litres but only about 1,800 litres are avaiable for use as the 1/2 inch output is about 6 inches above the drain.

Last year they cost me a total of 800 baht, 700 for the tank and 100 baht for the concrete lid whch does not blow away in the strong wind.

My tanks are behind the small house on a slab 8 x 10 metres.

Bill, the jars I have are about 60 inches in diameter and about 50 inches high. I'm not smart enough to calculate the volume but if it were a sphere the volume would be considerably more than a thousand liters. My wife is the one who calls them 1,000 liter jars.

Gary, they are probably the same as mine but the guy who delivered them told me that they were 2,000 litres, and I believed him.

Crossy Posted Today, 2007-02-27 11:41:22

QUOTE(Gary A @ 2007-02-27 12:03:00) *

Bill, the jars I have are about 60 inches in diameter and about 50 inches high. I'm not smart enough to calculate the volume but if it were a sphere the volume would be considerably more than a thousand liters. My wife is the one who calls them 1,000 liter jars. ermm.gif

If you assume a sphere of 50" (127 cm) diameter the volume = 4/3 pi r^3 = 4/3 * pi * (127/2)^3 = 1072530 cubic centimetres = 1072L

Hence 1000L jars smile.gif

Thanks Crossy

I am like bubbaba and I left school in 1959.

bubbaba Posted Today, 2007-02-27 18:11:54

I need to ask a question. I have forgotten how to do algebra, geometry, etc. Been over 50 years since I went to school and never used math in my work. So, I lost it long time ago.

If you have cement circles, like they use to make septic tanks here in Thailand. But these are two meters dia. by .5 meter height. What is the cubic volume of water that this cement piece would hold providing it had a bottom?

That is an easy one as I found the answer on the internet.

3.145 etc or pi times the radius squared times the height.

I have attached a small file which I found on the internet last year which may help.

Please provide me with an answer and if you are willing, please explain how to figure volume for circles, cylinders, what ever you call them. I can only figure volume on squares and rectangles.

areas_and_volumes_01.xls