U.S. Social Security International Direct Deposit (IDD) Update

[Mel52]

No.  I do not have any of my govt pensions sent to a Thai bank...but use to for short while years back....my pensions go to US banks and then draw cash as needed.   I use the Bt800K method for extension of stay.  But I have used the ACH Bangkok Bank NY method many times over many years for many transfers from my US banks to Bangkok Bank since Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank with ACH receiving capability.  Now I have a family member that sends their SS deposits to Bangkok Bank via ACH before but now IDD as already talked.

 

But for several years now my primary method of getting money into Thailand has been via ATM or bank counter withdrawal using my no foreign transfer fee debit cards that also reimburse ATM fees.  This is the fastest, cheapest (free), and most bang for your buck method to get money from your US banks.  Beats SWIFT, ACH, IDD, or Transferwise type methods. 

 

Using a debit card method can not be used to satisfy monthly income for immigration extension of stay purposes as debit card usage is a coded as a domestic transaction....but it's still the best, cheapest, fastest way to get money if your have no foreign transaction fee cards that reimburse fees like I do. 

Ohhhh ok, that explains a lot more about your situation. I thought you were doing the monthly transfers like me. And yeah I knew about the debit card thing you’re right that’s not sufficient for immigration. I did as much research as possible before I started doing monthly transfers earlier this year and Joe has been a great help as well because of his knowledge and experience with these things. It is sort of uncharted territory for everyone since this is the first year it became immigration procedure, possibly even for Joe.

 

I actually started doing it in November last year when they first started talking about getting rid of the income affidavits because I knew this was coming after that. I figured back then that this would be the new procedure and I was pretty much right for the most part. In January I learned more about it and have been learning more about it ever since. I do my next extension in January next year so I’ll be ok. My current extension expires on February 6th 2020 but I always like to do it as early as possible in case I run into problems then I still have time to fix it but I’ve never had any problems yet in 5 years here in Thailand.

[Mel52]

No.  I do not have any of my govt pensions sent to a Thai bank...but use to for short while years back....my pensions go to US banks and then draw cash as needed.   I use the Bt800K method for extension of stay.  But I have used the ACH Bangkok Bank NY method many times over many years for many transfers from my US banks to Bangkok Bank since Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank with ACH receiving capability.  Now I have a family member that sends their SS deposits to Bangkok Bank via ACH before but now IDD as already talked.
 
But for several years now my primary method of getting money into Thailand has been via ATM or bank counter withdrawal using my no foreign transfer fee debit cards that also reimburse ATM fees.  This is the fastest, cheapest (free), and most bang for your buck method to get money from your US banks.  Beats SWIFT, ACH, IDD, or Transferwise type methods. 
 
Using a debit card method can not be used to satisfy monthly income for immigration extension of stay purposes as debit card usage is a coded as a domestic transaction....but it's still the best, cheapest, fastest way to get money if your have no foreign transaction fee cards that reimburse fees like I do. 

Oh and I asked you the same question in a PM just ignore it you already answered above thanks Pib.

[Mel52]

No.  I do not have any of my govt pensions sent to a Thai bank...but use to for short while years back....my pensions go to US banks and then draw cash as needed.   I use the Bt800K method for extension of stay.  But I have used the ACH Bangkok Bank NY method many times over many years for many transfers from my US banks to Bangkok Bank since Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank with ACH receiving capability.  Now I have a family member that sends their SS deposits to Bangkok Bank via ACH before but now IDD as already talked.  

But for several years now my primary method of getting money into Thailand has been via ATM or bank counter withdrawal using my no foreign transfer fee debit cards that also reimburse ATM fees.  This is the fastest, cheapest (free), and most bang for your buck method to get money from your US banks.  Beats SWIFT, ACH, IDD, or Transferwise type methods. 

 

Using a debit card method can not be used to satisfy monthly income for immigration extension of stay purposes as debit card usage is a coded as a domestic transaction....but it's still the best, cheapest, fastest way to get money if your have no foreign transaction fee cards that reimburse fees like I do. 

 

I prefer the monthly transfers (IDD now) simply because I don’t feel comfortable moving that much money into a foreign bank account. So I only transfer one of my government pensions into Thailand just my VA Disability only. And I save the rest in the United States including my wife’s Social Security and my Military Retirement Pay in our US bank. Since I’m rated 100% my VA pension is more than enough to support us both and to satisfy immigration requirements. Like I said it’s uncharted territory so all we can do is collect as much information about Immigration’s procedures as possible for income verification. But the police order from December is pretty clear.

 

[Pib]

  

With two months of IDD SS pension payments (3 Jul and 2 Aug) to a family member this allows me to compare the ACH vs IDD transfer methods in terms of exchange rates, fees, etc., I thought I would put some numbers into a spreadsheet/chart and mention some IDD pros & cons.  

 

Rather than placing a bunch of notes in the July and August payment charts I’ll just mention the notes in this paragraph.  Important to consider these notes.   Please note in the chart below that the exchange rate used for ACH payment is the Opening Day 0830am Bangkok Bank TT Buying  Rate I’ve always seen used for incoming ACH payments over the years and previously when the family member’s SS pension was being paid via ACH.  Also, the IDD exchange rate is the "effective" exchange rate since the funds are not really sent in USD as shown in the chart but sent in THB.  I just used USD in some of the IDD chart cells in trying to provide more of an apples-to-apples chart comparison to the ACH method which sends in USD and then Bangkok Bank does the exchange on the Thailand end.  With IDD, "Bahtnet" is used for the final leg of the transfer.  The Bt100 Receiving Fee is the standard Bahtnet receiving fee for the “Bangkok and surrounding provinces”…that’s the total fees my family member receive since we live in Bangkok.  For other/upcountry provinces the typical Thai bank  Bahtnet receiving fee would consist of “Bt100 plus an upcountry fee”….the upcountry Bahtnet fee consisting of 10 baht per 10,000 baht transferred and 1 baht per 1000 baht fraction.   So, say a person received 51,000 pension payment…the Bahtnet fee would be Bt100 plus Bt51 for Bt151 total.   Also, keep in mind the IDD exchange rate is determined by the US Treasury/the processor bank several business days before the payment date, whereas, the ACH exchange rates is determined the day Bangkok Bank posts to your acct. So, since exchange rates can change significantly from day-to-day this means we can’t use the same day and time to compare IDD and ACH simply because the rates are determined on different dates.

 

Before getting to the charts hear are some IDD pros and cons that come to mind.  And by the way the charts would really apply to VA, OPM and other govt agency payment "via IDD" as the Federal Reserve Banks of New York is the entity actually transmitting the money based on instructions received from SSA, VA, OPM, etc.

 

Some IDD Pros

-Not restricted to just Bangkok Bank; can send to any Thai bank.

-Can be sent to a single or joint account and can have Power of Attorney name added to acct/passbook.

-No restrictions on acct…can have debit card, do ibanking transfers out, do not have to physically visit a branch to withdraw/transfer funds.

  

Some IDD Cons

-Coded as BTN/Bahtnet; not FTT/International Transfer like ACH.  But Credit Advice and SMS for IDD transfer clearly confirms its an international transfer.

-Lower sending/receiving fees but lower exchange rate may result in smaller amount posting to your acct…depends on amount being sent….see the chart.

-Only sent in THB; not USD if wanting to deposit to a Foreign Currency Deposit acct

-Will need to have a foreign address on-file with SSA in order to signup for IDD…this means you will start getting the annual Are You Dead or Alive 7162 letter.

 

3 July Payment

 

2 August Payment

[Rhys]

Just a general comment:  I have found that SS Manila does take time.  Some of the claims Reps, respond only when absolutely necessary or the email go into the round file.  However, they do end up processing, and like many have said before it just takes time.

 

In my case they SS Manila had to verify I was who I said I was as their was some error that I was deceased.  This meant I had to go to the Embassy in Bangkok with Birth Certificate, SS Card, and passport to notarize the documents, No Charge, because it was SS related, otherwise, the fee can add up.  This took almost 6 months to process because of delays on both sides.   However, SS Manila came through.

 

My dealing with SS Baltimore, surprisingly have been good and responses are quick.. Really.  I prefer the phone, yes, you have to wait and it is anywhere from 10-25 minutes.  It is best to call early on their morning.  Also call that 800 number that you end up paying for in Thailand.  The numbers they ask you to call based on your claim number, for me, never have been picked up...and the recording is... of all chuckles... please leave a message and we shall get back to you. 5555

 

All the best.

 

[racyrick]

34 minutes ago, Pib said:

  

With two months of IDD SS pension payments (3 Jul and 2 Aug) to a family member this allows me to compare the ACH vs IDD transfer methods in terms of exchange rates, fees, etc., I thought I would put some numbers into a spreadsheet/chart and mention some IDD pros & cons.  

 

Rather than placing a bunch of notes in the July and August payment charts I’ll just mention the notes in this paragraph.  Important to consider these notes.   Please note in the chart below that the exchange rate used for ACH payment is the Opening Day 0830am Bangkok Bank TT Buying  Rate I’ve always seen used for incoming ACH payments over the years and previously when the family member’s SS pension was being paid via ACH.  Also, the IDD exchange rate is the "effective" exchange rate since the funds are not really sent in USD as shown in the chart but sent in THB.  I just used USD in some of the IDD chart cells in trying to provide more of an apples-to-apples chart comparison to the ACH method which sends in USD and then Bangkok Bank does the exchange on the Thailand end.  With IDD, "Bahtnet" is used for the final leg of the transfer.  The Bt100 Receiving Fee is the standard Bahtnet receiving fee for the “Bangkok and surrounding provinces”…that’s the total fees my family member receive since we live in Bangkok.  For other/upcountry provinces the typical Thai bank  Bahtnet receiving fee would consist of “Bt100 plus an upcountry fee”….the upcountry Bahtnet fee consisting of 10 baht per 10,000 baht transferred and 1 baht per 1000 baht fraction.   So, say a person received 51,000 pension payment…the Bahtnet fee would be Bt100 plus Bt51 for Bt151 total.   Also, keep in mind the IDD exchange rate is determined by the US Treasury/the processor bank several business days before the payment date, whereas, the ACH exchange rates is determined the day Bangkok Bank posts to your acct. So, since exchange rates can change significantly from day-to-day this means we can’t use the same day and time to compare IDD and ACH simply because the rates are determined on different dates.

 

Before getting to the charts hear are some IDD pros and cons that come to mind.  And by the way the charts would really apply to VA, OPM and other govt agency payment "via IDD" as the Federal Reserve Banks of New York is the entity actually transmitting the money based on instructions received from SSA, VA, OPM, etc.

 

Some IDD Pros

-Not restricted to just Bangkok Bank; can send to any Thai bank.

-Can be sent to a single or joint account and can have Power of Attorney name added to acct/passbook.

-No restrictions on acct…can have debit card, do ibanking transfers out, do not have to physically visit a branch to withdraw/transfer funds.

  

Some IDD Cons

-Coded as BTN/Bahtnet; not FTT/International Transfer like ACH.  But Credit Advice and SMS for IDD transfer clearly confirms its an international transfer.

-Lower sending/receiving fees but lower exchange rate may result in smaller amount posting to your acct…depends on amount being sent….see the chart.

-Only sent in THB; not USD if wanting to deposit to a Foreign Currency Deposit acct

-Will need to have a foreign address on-file with SSA in order to signup for IDD…this means you will start getting the annual Are You Dead or Alive 7162 letter.

 

3 July Payment

 

2 August Payment

Have you confirmed with Immigration that they would accept Bahtnet coded on a passbook as an International transfer?

 

Have you asked Bangkok Bank if they will list the Bahtnet transfers as an International transfer on the letter Immigration wants from the bank?

 

Thanks and thanks for keeping us updated.

[Pib]

13 minutes ago, racyrick said:

Have you confirmed with Immigration that they would accept Bahtnet coded on a passbook as an International transfer?

 

Have you asked Bangkok Bank if they will list the Bahtnet transfers as an International transfer on the letter Immigration wants from the bank?

 

Thanks and thanks for keeping us updated.

No to the first question.   I don't use the monthly transfer method so I haven't had the need to ask.

 

Regarding the second question, I know when I asked my Bangkok Bank branch approx one month ago, which is the head office branch on Silom Rd in Bangkok in the HQ Bangkok Bank building, the rep said they would not include Bahtnet coded transfers on the monthly income letter even though the Bangkok Bank credit advice and SMS showed it was an international transfer.  This is the same rep that provided the credit advice and does a lot of the letters for the head office branch.  The rep said a person would need to get a letter from the Thai bank sending the Bahtnet transfer which would be Citibank-Thailand in this case.  When I pointed out the Bangkok Bank Credit Advice confirms its an international transfer originated by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York & Social Security Administration so why can't Bangkok Bank include the Bahtnet transfer on the letter, the rep couldn't give a good answer in my opinion.  Since the great majority of Bahtnet transfers do not originate from outside Thailand to determine which Bahtnet transfers are international and which ones are not would require too much work....require Credit Advices being pulled & reviewed for each transfer versus the bank just doing a retrieval keying in on "FTT" coded transfers.  But I have seen posts where people's Bangkok Bank branch said they would included BTN and SMT coded transfers as international transfer on an immigration income letter if a Credit Advice is provided as proof.   If you have an immigration office which accepts Credit Advices as proof of international transfer then the SSA BTN-coded transfers should be accepted by immigration as the Bangkok Bank credit advices confirm the transfers originated from the U.S.  If you have an immigration office that only wants a KISS letter from the Thai bank and don't wan't to see an inch thick bunch of Credit Advices then a person will need to ask their bank branch will they include BTN-coded transfers on the letter.  

 

In closing, since I don't use the monthly income method (nor plan to)...I use the Bt800K deposit method and the family member receiving the IDD payment is Thai with no need for international coding or an annual extension of stay, I will not be drilling much more or deeper on IDD issues.   I'll probably post more IDD related info that I previously dug-up/just happen to know, but my IDD rabbit trail hunting is pretty much over.   And the family member is just very happy in getting rid of the special Direct Deposit restrictions due to switching to IDD.

 

 

 

[Mavideol]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

  

With two months of IDD SS pension payments (3 Jul and 2 Aug) to a family member this allows me to compare the ACH vs IDD transfer methods in terms of exchange rates, fees, etc., I thought I would put some numbers into a spreadsheet/chart and mention some IDD pros & cons.  

 

Rather than placing a bunch of notes in the July and August payment charts I’ll just mention the notes in this paragraph.  Important to consider these notes.   Please note in the chart below that the exchange rate used for ACH payment is the Opening Day 0830am Bangkok Bank TT Buying  Rate I’ve always seen used for incoming ACH payments over the years and previously when the family member’s SS pension was being paid via ACH.  Also, the IDD exchange rate is the "effective" exchange rate since the funds are not really sent in USD as shown in the chart but sent in THB.  I just used USD in some of the IDD chart cells in trying to provide more of an apples-to-apples chart comparison to the ACH method which sends in USD and then Bangkok Bank does the exchange on the Thailand end.  With IDD, "Bahtnet" is used for the final leg of the transfer.  The Bt100 Receiving Fee is the standard Bahtnet receiving fee for the “Bangkok and surrounding provinces”…that’s the total fees my family member receive since we live in Bangkok.  For other/upcountry provinces the typical Thai bank  Bahtnet receiving fee would consist of “Bt100 plus an upcountry fee”….the upcountry Bahtnet fee consisting of 10 baht per 10,000 baht transferred and 1 baht per 1000 baht fraction.   So, say a person received 51,000 pension payment…the Bahtnet fee would be Bt100 plus Bt51 for Bt151 total.   Also, keep in mind the IDD exchange rate is determined by the US Treasury/the processor bank several business days before the payment date, whereas, the ACH exchange rates is determined the day Bangkok Bank posts to your acct. So, since exchange rates can change significantly from day-to-day this means we can’t use the same day and time to compare IDD and ACH simply because the rates are determined on different dates.

 

Before getting to the charts hear are some IDD pros and cons that come to mind.  And by the way the charts would really apply to VA, OPM and other govt agency payment "via IDD" as the Federal Reserve Banks of New York is the entity actually transmitting the money based on instructions received from SSA, VA, OPM, etc.

 

Some IDD Pros

-Not restricted to just Bangkok Bank; can send to any Thai bank.

-Can be sent to a single or joint account and can have Power of Attorney name added to acct/passbook.

-No restrictions on acct…can have debit card, do ibanking transfers out, do not have to physically visit a branch to withdraw/transfer funds.

  

Some IDD Cons

-Coded as BTN/Bahtnet; not FTT/International Transfer like ACH.  But Credit Advice and SMS for IDD transfer clearly confirms its an international transfer.

-Lower sending/receiving fees but lower exchange rate may result in smaller amount posting to your acct…depends on amount being sent….see the chart.

-Only sent in THB; not USD if wanting to deposit to a Foreign Currency Deposit acct

-Will need to have a foreign address on-file with SSA in order to signup for IDD…this means you will start getting the annual Are You Dead or Alive 7162 letter.

 

3 July Payment

 

2 August Payment

great job, thanks a lot

[racyrick]

17 hours ago, Pib said:

No to the first question.   I don't use the monthly transfer method so I haven't had the need to ask.

 

Regarding the second question, I know when I asked my Bangkok Bank branch approx one month ago, which is the head office branch on Silom Rd in Bangkok in the HQ Bangkok Bank building, the rep said they would not include Bahtnet coded transfers on the monthly income letter even though the Bangkok Bank credit advice and SMS showed it was an international transfer.  This is the same rep that provided the credit advice and does a lot of the letters for the head office branch.  The rep said a person would need to get a letter from the Thai bank sending the Bahtnet transfer which would be Citibank-Thailand in this case.  When I pointed out the Bangkok Bank Credit Advice confirms its an international transfer originated by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York & Social Security Administration so why can't Bangkok Bank include the Bahtnet transfer on the letter, the rep couldn't give a good answer in my opinion.  Since the great majority of Bahtnet transfers do not originate from outside Thailand to determine which Bahtnet transfers are international and which ones are not would require too much work....require Credit Advices being pulled & reviewed for each transfer versus the bank just doing a retrieval keying in on "FTT" coded transfers.  But I have seen posts where people's Bangkok Bank branch said they would included BTN and SMT coded transfers as international transfer on an immigration income letter if a Credit Advice is provided as proof.   If you have an immigration office which accepts Credit Advices as proof of international transfer then the SSA BTN-coded transfers should be accepted by immigration as the Bangkok Bank credit advices confirm the transfers originated from the U.S.  If you have an immigration office that only wants a KISS letter from the Thai bank and don't wan't to see an inch thick bunch of Credit Advices then a person will need to ask their bank branch will they include BTN-coded transfers on the letter.  

 

In closing, since I don't use the monthly income method (nor plan to)...I use the Bt800K deposit method and the family member receiving the IDD payment is Thai with no need for international coding or an annual extension of stay, I will not be drilling much more or deeper on IDD issues.   I'll probably post more IDD related info that I previously dug-up/just happen to know, but my IDD rabbit trail hunting is pretty much over.   And the family member is just very happy in getting rid of the special Direct Deposit restrictions due to switching to IDD.

 

 

 

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply.

Very happy for you and your family member.

Understand everything.

[Danthai]

Military retired pay sent on last workday of the month. Always arrives direct deposit on 2nd of month. SS sent out 1 st of month but comes a little late, like this month for August (for me). Posted on second, but because of weekend probably wont get SS until 5th. But both come on same month. I realize some SS payees have different payment times.

[Danthai]

Joe, I showed them proof Im getting pension without affidavit. I showed CM that my BKK bankbook is getting regular FTT deposits for 7 moths now. They said (along with other married docs) get a bank letter and credit advice. Do not understand credit advice. I'm assuming they want all 7 months, but BKK can do locally for 6 months. They did not indicate credit advice for any one number of months. What do we pay for the credit advice? I took it to mean it was a list of deposits on possible one or two pages. Do you know what charges there are for credit advices? Indicated with proper married docs and bank letter and credit advice should be no problem. 

[Pib]

2 hours ago, Danthai said:

Joe, I showed them proof Im getting pension without affidavit. I showed CM that my BKK bankbook is getting regular FTT deposits for 7 moths now. They said (along with other married docs) get a bank letter and credit advice. Do not understand credit advice. I'm assuming they want all 7 months, but BKK can do locally for 6 months. They did not indicate credit advice for any one number of months. What do we pay for the credit advice? I took it to mean it was a list of deposits on possible one or two pages. Do you know what charges there are for credit advices? Indicated with proper married docs and bank letter and credit advice should be no problem. 

Each credit advice no older than 6 months old is free.  Older than 6 months then Bt100 per credit advice with a max charge of Bt500 if needing more than 5 credit advices.  For transfers older than 6 months (or maybe it's 3) then your local branch will need to order it from the head office in Bangkok which will take a few days.  

 

Best to get the credit advices every few months versus waiting longer than 6 months which then means it will cost some money and a head office delay is involved.

 

The accompanying monthly income bank letter would be Bt100.  This bank letter just documents on a single letter the international transfers.

 

Below is a snapshot from the latest Bangkok Bank fee schedule regarding credit advices.  Sorry, their fee schedule is only in Thai.  

 

 

 

[Mel52]

Each credit advice no older than 6 months old is free.  Older than 6 months then Bt100 per credit advice with a max charge of Bt500 if needing more than 5 credit advices.  For transfers older than 6 months (or maybe it's 3) then your local branch will need to order it from the head office in Bangkok which will take a few days.  
 
Best to get the credit advices every few months versus waiting longer than 6 months which then means it will cost some money and a head office delay is involved.
 
The accompanying monthly income bank letter would be Bt100.  This bank letter just documents on a single letter the international transfers.
 
Below is a snapshot from the latest Bangkok Bank fee schedule regarding credit advices.  Sorry, their fee schedule is only in Thai.  
 

 
 

SCB really does call them the Advice for Customer which is the same thing as the credit advice but I always pull all of mine every month at the bank once a month at least one business day after payday the same day I’m there to update my pass book anyway. Each month I always have them print my current months bank statements and credit advices. Even if I don’t need them for immigration I still like having them for my records and to keep records of everything including exchange rates each month after payday.

[Mel52]

They actually just made me my second pass book for this year at SCB on Tuesday. Now I have like 3 pass books. I never really used a Thai bank account before November last year.

 

[friend of siam]

On 1/25/2019 at 10:12 AM, ubonjoe said:

I guess the first thing we will need to see is the direct deposit form for Thailand to appear here. https://www.ssa.gov/forms/ssa-1199.html

 

 

how high is the monthly social security us pension and at what age they will receive it ? are there any strings attached ( like working certain years ) or will that pension receive every citicen above a certain age ...???

[ThaiBunny]

7 minutes ago, friend of siam said:

how high is the monthly social security us pension and at what age they will receive it ? are there any strings attached ( like working certain years ) or will that pension receive every citicen above a certain age ...???

It's not a pension as the term is understood in the UK or Australia ie. a fixed maximum whether you worked or not. I worked in the US for a few years and I get a monthly Socials payment around $256, from which 25% withholding tax is deducted because I'm not a US taxpayer. A friend of mine gets almost 10 times that amount because of the number of years of penal servitude he did as a university teacher. Neither of us are US citizens

[ThaiBunny]

3 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

If compared with the UK or Australia the tax rates in the US are mostly lower.

But that's a comparison of apples to oranges. The income tax taken by itself is lower, but when you add in the SS contributions I found there was very little difference between my take home salary outside the US and take home salary inside the US. The comparison is often made to Singapore, too, where the mandatory 30% contribution to the Central Provident Fund is conveniently forgotten

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

If one is smart in the US you learn to legally find ways to lower the burden, through tax deductions. 

I was there a bare three years. I'm only entitled to the miniscule payment I'm getting because of the social security agreement the US has with my own country. I've no idea of the formula that was used to calculate the amount but suspect it included the square root of my grandmother's date of birth ????

[Sheryl]

Good to know.

Immigration will want a bank letter/statement not a sheaf of ctedit asvices, but having the credit advives should facilitate getting the letter from your bank branch.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Pib]

As others have stated, I feared an early SS IDD this month because Sunday is the 1st and Monday is a US holiday. Well it didn't happen. If it was paid on Friday, it wont post in the Thai bank until Monday (we're a day ahead) so no worry. Now I'll have to see if immigration will accept credit advice slips. I'm covered anyway because I'm making an addition BOA swift transfer, but I'm positing myself for next year. 
I feel things will get sorted out in time, but don't want to get hurt in the short term. 

No need to pay early as the 3rd is Tuesday...not a holiday.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, FredGallaher said:

Last month it posted on the 1st, but the notice from SS said on the 3rd. I'm keeping my eye on it.

You sure it was paid on the 1st.  I have a family member getting SS via IDD...family member was paid on 2 Aug/Friday....paid earlier than the 3rd since the 3rd was a Saturday.

[Sheryl]

I'm personal friends with the bank manager and her husband. We're like family and do things together. If she can help, she will. In no way would I ask for anything that could get her in trouble. 

I don't follow.

How on earth does issuance of the bank letter risk getting someone in trouble?

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Pib]

On 8/2/2019 at 4:30 PM, Pib said:

  

With two months of IDD SS pension payments (3 Jul and 2 Aug) to a family member this allows me to compare the ACH vs IDD transfer methods in terms of exchange rates, fees, etc., I thought I would put some numbers into a spreadsheet/chart and mention some IDD pros & cons.  

 

Rather than placing a bunch of notes in the July and August payment charts I’ll just mention the notes in this paragraph.  Important to consider these notes.   Please note in the chart below that the exchange rate used for ACH payment is the Opening Day 0830am Bangkok Bank TT Buying  Rate I’ve always seen used for incoming ACH payments over the years and previously when the family member’s SS pension was being paid via ACH.  Also, the IDD exchange rate is the "effective" exchange rate since the funds are not really sent in USD as shown in the chart but sent in THB.  I just used USD in some of the IDD chart cells in trying to provide more of an apples-to-apples chart comparison to the ACH method which sends in USD and then Bangkok Bank does the exchange on the Thailand end.  With IDD, "Bahtnet" is used for the final leg of the transfer.  The Bt100 Receiving Fee is the standard Bahtnet receiving fee for the “Bangkok and surrounding provinces”…that’s the total fees my family member receive since we live in Bangkok.  For other/upcountry provinces the typical Thai bank  Bahtnet receiving fee would consist of “Bt100 plus an upcountry fee”….the upcountry Bahtnet fee consisting of 10 baht per 10,000 baht transferred and 1 baht per 1000 baht fraction.   So, say a person received 51,000 pension payment…the Bahtnet fee would be Bt100 plus Bt51 for Bt151 total.   Also, keep in mind the IDD exchange rate is determined by the US Treasury/the processor bank several business days before the payment date, whereas, the ACH exchange rates is determined the day Bangkok Bank posts to your acct. So, since exchange rates can change significantly from day-to-day this means we can’t use the same day and time to compare IDD and ACH simply because the rates are determined on different dates.

 

Before getting to the charts hear are some IDD pros and cons that come to mind.  And by the way the charts would really apply to VA, OPM and other govt agency payment "via IDD" as the Federal Reserve Banks of New York is the entity actually transmitting the money based on instructions received from SSA, VA, OPM, etc.

 

Some IDD Pros

-Not restricted to just Bangkok Bank; can send to any Thai bank.

-Can be sent to a single or joint account and can have Power of Attorney name added to acct/passbook.

-No restrictions on acct…can have debit card, do ibanking transfers out, do not have to physically visit a branch to withdraw/transfer funds.

  

Some IDD Cons

-Coded as BTN/Bahtnet; not FTT/International Transfer like ACH.  But Credit Advice and SMS for IDD transfer clearly confirms its an international transfer.

-Lower sending/receiving fees but lower exchange rate may result in smaller amount posting to your acct…depends on amount being sent….see the chart.

-Only sent in THB; not USD if wanting to deposit to a Foreign Currency Deposit acct

-Will need to have a foreign address on-file with SSA in order to signup for IDD…this means you will start getting the annual Are You Dead or Alive 7162 letter.

 

3 July Payment

 

2 August Payment

 

 

Update to show 3 Sep payment via ACH or IDD.   Once again, IDD is usually better for lower amounts but not higher amounts.  But with IDD you don't have any of the ACH restrictions previously discussed. 

 

And for those using the monthly income method for extension of stay purposes keep in mind that IDD receives "BTN" coding as last leg of the transfer is a local Bahtnet transfer vs Bangkok Bank FTT coding....however, a credit advice for the IDD transfer clearly shows it was an international transfer just like for an ACH transfer.

 

3 September Payment

[Sheryl]

Here have been reports that the bank doesn't want to document bahtnet transfers. If she can put them in the letter great.

They won't issue a letter that source was international based just on bahtnet coding. However Credit Advice will show international origin and that is sufficient for any bank to issue letter.

They could also fish that info out themselves from their system but this would take time and work, and for transfers more than 3-6 months old migjt only be possible at bank HQ.

It is quite easy to get Credit Advice (they just print it out from their computer system) and free if requested within 3 months of the transfer. In some cases rural bank staff may not know what a Credit Advice is, in which case call main bank number and have someone tell them how.

I am not using the income method now and won't for probably another 2 years but I nonetheless get and save the Credit Advice for all my transfers. It is a goid idea to have on hand proof of origin of your funds, you never know when it might be needed.

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[Sheryl]

Immigration is not about to try to understand how multitude of retirement income streams and various mechanisms of fund transfer work and one can hardly blame them... remember they are dealing not just with Americans but also Brits and Aussies and US SS is but one of many possible types of retirement income.

After consultations with US Embassy and others they concluded only feasible approach was to rely on Thai bank letters/statements showing transfers in from abroad. It makes sense from their point of view but is problematic for people wanting to use services like Transferwise. However should be no problem at all for SS IDD.

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[Pib]

Just an update regarding the IDD Exchange Rate which I have tracked for the last nine months since I have a family member receiving SSA pension via IDD (but use to receive via ACH before switching to IDD).  The IDD exchange rate is not posted anywhere as there is no one standard IDD exchange rate since the U.S. Treasury uses different IDD contractor/processor banks to determine the rate.  A person needs to calculate the rate based on his/her net payment and associated fees. This is just a cost-comparison update for Thailand IDD; not a discussion of the pros and cons covered earlier in this thread.

 

Below is a snapshot showing Feb and Mar 2020 which compares different payment amounts via ACH (i.e., routing thru/using the Bangkok Bank New York branch routing number) and via IDD which uses SWIFT.  Just showing these two months to give an idea of how ACH and IDD compare for different payment amounts when considering "exchange rate and fees."  When using the ACH method a person incurs two fees....a Bangkok Bank NY branch (usually $5 or $10 for most amounts) and an in-Thailand branch receiving fee which is usually Bt200; whereas with IDD only one fee is usually incurred which is an in-Thailand Bahtnet fee of Bt100. 

 

And then right below those two months the "nine month averages" are reflected which shows the IDD exchange rate is usually/approximately 0.25 baht lower than the ACH exchange rate,  But for Mar 2020 the IDD exchange rate got real close to the ACH exchange rate. 

 

Keep in mind the ACH and IDD exchange rates are determined by different financial entities and on different dates.  The ACH exchange rate is determined on the date the funds post to your Bangkok Bank acct using the Bangkok Bank 8:30am/Opening exchange rate and the IDD exchange rate is determined several business days earlier by the U.S. Treasury/Federal Reserve Bank/IDD contractor bank.   So, different financial entities setting exchange rates driven by ever changing financial conditions on different dates  results in different exchange rates.

 

Example Payments for Feb and Mar 2020

 

Nine Month Averages

 

 

[Pib]

ACH vs IDD Thailand Exchange Rate Update as of 3 Apr 2020:  Below reflects a 3 Apr payment comparison and also a 10 months average rate comparison from Jul 2019-Apr 2020.

 

[Pib]

It's now been a year since a family member has been receiving a SSA payment via "IDD."  First IDD payment was Jul 2019...before that it was payment via ACH.   Thought I would provide a 12 month summary/comparison of some representative SSA payment amounts.

 

Below charts show the ACH vs IDD Thailand Exchange Rate for the June 2020 payment only and also a 12 months (a whole year) average exchange rate comparison from July 2019-June 2020.   

 

The IDD payment goes to a Bangkok Bank regular savings account with debit card, full ibanking capability, no requirement to physically show-up to withdraw funds, etc.  An IDD payment can go to "any" Thai bank.  When still receiving payment via ACH the Bangkok Bank special direct deposit savings account was required which had restrictions and only Bangkok Bank can receive ACH payments. 

 

Full pros and cons of IDD and ACH discussed in detail earlier in this thread, but the only downsides I see to IDD is "depending on your payment amount" you will get a little less posting to your account if your payment is approximately equal to or greater than $1,125 and an IDD transfer is coded as a Bahtnet local transfer vs an International Transfer/FTT transfer on your passbook.  This transfer coding can be important to those using the monthly transfer income method for extension of stay purposes.

 

Remember, the ACH exchange rate is the Bangkok Bank day of payment/posting 0830 opening day exchange rate as the payment currency exchange occurs on the Thai bank end.  However, the IDD exchange rate is determined several days earlier since the US Treasury/their processor bank accomplishes the exchange on their end days before the payment date and sends baht instead of dollars.  

 

For the June 2020 Payment "Only"

 

 

12 Month Average Jul 2019 - Jun 2020. 

Note: Based on the 12 month averages, an approximate $1,125 payment is the crossover point
as to which payment method posts the most money to your account after considering
exchange rate and fees.

 

 

 

[Kwarium]

@Pib, @Sheryl thanks for the info and for keeping the USA Social Security thread alive. There are 7,779 people receiving their SS money here in Thailand according to the interesting pdf @taxout posted on Feb. 12th.

 

I wonder if the ssa service response times in Manila have improved since the many complaints of 2018? Maybe it would be better to get everything set up at a local SSA office on a visit to the US?

 

Thank you!

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Kwarium said:

@Pib, @Sheryl thanks for the info and for keeping the USA Social Security thread alive. There are 7,779 people receiving their SS money here in Thailand according to the interesting pdf @taxout posted on Feb. 12th.

 

I wonder if the ssa service response times in Manila have improved since the many complaints of 2018? Maybe it would be better to get everything set up at a local SSA office on a visit to the US?

 

Thank you!

 

 

Don't know about the Feb 12th post you referred to...don't see a 12 Feb 2019/2020 post in this thread but the SSA web site does show as of 30 Sep 2020 7,779 people "with a Thailand address on file with SSA" are receiving SSA payments.    See snapshot at bottom. 

 

Of that 7,779 only 633 are signed up for the IDD program....7,102 receive their payment to a US bank via ACH---and in this case a payment using the Bangkok Bank NY routing number is considered a US bank because the NY branch is a licensed US bank with an ACH routing number.  And then 44 folks still receive payment via paper check.

 

Now quite a few people receiving SSA benefits haven't told SSA they are living in Thailand so they are "not" included in that 7,779 number...SSA thinks they live in the US or whatever last address the beneficiary provided the SSA.   Even a payment going to the Bangkok Bank NY branch would not be counted as a Thailand payment if the person's address on file with the SSA is not a Thailand address.

 

Regarding best to apply for benefits at a local US office or Manila, well, if living in Thailand full time it's going to be hard to visit a SSA office in the US.   Your only choice would be to apply online with the SSA (regardless of where you live in the world) or apply directly with the Manila office via telephone interview if you live in their area of responsibility which includes Thailand.

 

 

https://www.ssa.gov/deposit/GIS/data/Reports/ALLCTRYWEB.htm