For better or worse? Expats think Thailand is going down the pan, poll

[NextStationBangkok]

Even for Thai's Sukumvit is a different country, comparing with Thonburi side, where is life is much affordable.

 

One can eat 35-40 baht a meal in Thonburi street side shops, i am not sure about Sukumvit area.

[Sparkles]

I think we would all feel differently if most of our our currrencies hadn't gone south compared with the Thai baht which must be being propped up.

The country is barely out of leaving the third world.Political unrest,slower growth than predicted,exports more expensive for other countries ,nothing makes sense.

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

 

\\]]\Nope-not a single member here is surprised-unless they are Thai shills.\

 

Why would anyone be surprised?

What are 'Thai shills'?

 

 

[scorecard]

1 minute ago, Sparkles said:

I think we would all feel differently if most of our our currrencies hadn't gone south compared with the Thai baht which must be being propped up.

The country is barely out of leaving the third world.Political unrest,slower growth than predicted,exports more expensive for other countries ,nothing makes sense.

 

But is it not true most folks before they come here they all of the above?

 

And yes it's a country going through many many bumps and sadly controlled mostly by ruthless business people who have no interest in the development of Thailand.

 

 

[thaiguzzi]

13 minutes ago, Guderian said:

I've got a house, car, dog, girlfriend, motorbike, garden, etc., etc., so leaving Thailand would not be easy. I agree, though, that after 15 years of living here it's not the easy-going, fun-loving, bargain-basement place that it once was. Smiles here in Pattaya have become rarer than hen's teeth, and when I moved here to live getting stopped at three police check-points just to drive a few miles down the road wasn't part of the package. I mean, Thailand has long been a corrupt police state, but now it's a corrupt police state that will be overseen by the corrupt military for the foreseeable future under the new constitution. Do I really want to grow old living under that system? Not really sure what to do, to be honest.

Er, sorry dude, ever thought of moving?

Moving away from Pattaya.

I'll let you in on a little secret, Pattaya is not really the real Thailand.

The real Thailand is still out there, but it's not the TGZ (Tourist Greed Zones).

Funnily enough, i've lived here 15 years too. And where i live, it's still easy going, still fun loving, people have genuine smiles and even the coppers smile. And i have one roadblock a week where i know all the coppers and we have a chat and a laugh or get waved through.

Strange that.

Innit?

[mike1967]

18 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Not only Thais, modern marketing is 'charge whatever you can get away with, in any country.

 

That's as maybe but that wasn't my point. 

[OmarZaid]

Buncha grumpy old farts eh?  Ya'll been spoiled by exceptionalism and privileged arrogance. Life here is good and getting better.

[FunnyFarm]

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Thailand is simply not as appealing as it once was to expats looking to relocate or long term expats and some of the reasons are-

-  Rising Baht and rising prices-  Products from the USA/Europe/Australia are 5 x the cost of the home country while Thai products sold abroad are sold at lower prices.  Not everyone can eat Thai food every day.

 

-While rents are low compared to home country- prices of Condominiums with space and land prices in the major urban areas have risen tremendously.  

 

-The quality of most Thai products are poor and the Chinese imports are worse- to get a good quality product one has to purchase Korean/Japanese or Western at much higher prices.

 

=The Immigration conundrum- After 40 years married to a Thai- I still have to get together all my yearly paperwork and head to Immigration in the hopes they will let me stay one more year.  My wife's US Permanent Residency took less than 60 days to obtain; gave her unlimited access to the US forever and no 90 day reporting.  No such reciprocity in Thailand. I can't even apply for PR in Thailand due to not working in Thailand for at least a decade and no current tax payments.

 

-The weather in Thailand is no longer appealing- it has gotten much hotter over the decades and with the increase in traffic- the pollution has made  many of the Thai cities unlivable and there is no plan to do anything about it.   Most of the beaches are filthy and the water unhealthy to swim in.

 

-The Police- completely untrustworthy and an industry in themselves-  

 

-Wealth disparity-  a situation that is  so serious that IMHO it is a national emergency- it is true the rich are getting vastly richer and the poor are remaining vastly poorer.  Many have lost hope- turning to  alcohol and drugs to relieve the pain. Working as a clerk in 7 or the big box producers for 9-10K a month is going to work much longer.

 

Yet- with all of the above stated- I am still going to remain because of family  and the fact that the majority of Thai people that I interact with are still polite; still resourceful and still basically honest. The majority of them live day by day toiling to stay alive and provide for their families. It is their country and only they can change it...

 

-

All great and truly valid points. 
At the moment for me, one of the main reasons to leave would be a combination of littering and health and safety. I've lived here a decade this year, and recently in my area I have seen very scenic and rural areas, totally littered with garbage. Say if you are travelling along a country road, you can happen across a mountain of trash, and as I drove by I noticed a lot of it was broken asbestos and concrete! I have seen 3-4 areas like this around the location I live. 

On top of that, I have recently been forced to upgrade to a 5G router in my house (free of charge) which is something I did not want at all. I have actually requested to remain at 2.4G or even just get ethernet instead, but I cannot with 3BB it seems. So I am going to change companies. My point there is again, health and safety. 

And as it has already been pointed out, global warming is a real thing, and it is only going to get hotter and humid here with the years. I have a GF of 3 years (never going to 'tie the knot' and she knows it) but it is pretty difficult for her to get a visa anywhere in the EU. I personally would love to go and live in Cyprus or maybe Spain, but it is what it is. Most people who say they would like to leave Thailand would if the situation allowed it, but it simply is not in their best interest right now. The folk who do want to stay mainly seem to be boozed up old codgers who enjoy the lady bars. Go figure 

[OneMoreFarang]

52 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

And you get a lot of pesticides for free as well, a bargain!

And you think you don't get the same vegetables and the same pesticides in Thai supermarkets? 555

I also think it's funny to see often the "organic" labels. Who exactly inspects these items? And who inspects the inspectors?

Thailand has lots of laws but very few people who actually enforce them. Thinking you get something better because the label suggests so does not make much sense here.

[Shadychris]

Facebook users were asked the simple question in the straw poll

And therein lies the fundamental flaw with this poll.....

[Kerryd]

3 hours ago, moutamine said:

You are in the wrong.  Have you tried buying avocados lately.  30 Baht a piece... I can get 3 for 1$ CAD in Montreal.  Kiwis are 25 Baht a piece here, I get 6 for 1$ CAD.  

 

3 hours ago, puchooay said:

You are fighting a losing battle. 

 

For every item that you list that is more expensive here I could probably list 10 that are cheaper.

I agree.

Couple years ago, a friend back in Canada posted a pic of a head of cauliflower she'd bought in Canada - cost her $8.00 (about 230 baht at the time).

I went to the local market and bought some vegetables. Potatoes, onions, tomatoes, garlic, red chilies, green beans and straw mushrooms. Enough to last me a week.

 

Cost me 180 baht for the lot. (Yes, I laid it all out on the counter, took a pic and posted it on her Facebook page.)

 

Few years ago I had a root canal and a filing done at a Thai dentist on South Pattaya road. Cost me the equivalent of about $90 Canadian. I was told that the same thing in Canada would have cost around $1,800 Canadian.

 

Took a trip back home one summer. Stopped at a "big box" supermarket to get some food for the weekend. Nothing fancy, some hamburgers, hotdogs, buns, condiments (small relish/ketchup/mustard) butter, bacon, eggs, bread.

Just enough to last me from Friday evening until Sunday afternoon. Walked out with one bag of groceries - almost $300 Canadian (nearly 9,000 baht at the time) !

 

Just came back from my weekly shopping trip to Tops. Veggies, some chicken, pork and beef. Yogurts, cheese, eggs, bread. Very little junk food, no sodas or alcohol. 

Cost me just over 2,000 baht (about $75 Canadian). Got enough to last me a week.

Had an electrician come to the house one time to replace a wonky circuit breaker. Ended up replacing 2 of them. Took about an hour total (including going to get the new circuit breakers. Cost 500 baht total (about $20 Canadian). You wouldn't even get an electrician to your door for that much in Canada.

 

Some things are frikken expensive though but I've found that it's usually the "imported" stuff that is the priciest. Like the imported cherries, blackberries and strawberries at Foodland. Or the imported cheeses and other "farang" foods.

Which is really NO different than "back home" when you go to buy stuff like imported Japanese oranges or Thai coconuts or French cheese. Those things are usually more expensive than the "local" stuff back home, just like imported items here tend to be.

And for the record, for anyone who has actually researched the matter (like I've done) - Thailand is considerably cheaper to live in than Canada. There are a number of websites out there that track all manner of "cost of living" factors and produce stats on which countries are cheaper to live in and, consistently, Thailand ranks well above Canada in almost every category (and on every site) when it comes to which place is cheaper to live in.

[atyclb]

5 hours ago, stanleycoin said:

I can't do it.

I just can't let go of Soi 6. 

Way to much debauched fun for an afternoon.

Carry on Thailand, i'm staying. 

 

all said and well but as soon as soi 6 unesco site status is confirmed competition will get much stiffer

[OneMoreFarang]

55 minutes ago, mike1967 said:

I like to go fishing in Thailand but even that has become unaffordable. In the few years I've been going to Thailand prices have crazy.

Bungsamran (Bangkok) has gone from 1,000 baht to 4,000 baht.

Pattaya fishing park has gone from 300 baht to 2,000 baht

Baytong fishing park (Pattaya) has gone from 150 baht to 850 baht.

Maybe the way to stop the prices going even higher is to just not go to these places? Thais will charge whatever they can get away with. If you pay they will charge!!!

We have to help ourselves.

Fishing park?

I have to admit it's a long time ago that I was fishing. But at that time I did this somewhere at a lake or a river or the sea without any entrance fee.

[Suradit69]

4 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

 

Of course there will but only the one's who really like it here. Not the one's who came because they thought it was cheap and the perception of wall-to-wall pussy.

Yes, as long as I've been here, the one constant has been whining farang predicting that Thailand was going downhill and all farang were packing up to leave. 

 

If if you have a survey that, by its nature is going to attract the doom and gloom crowd, of course the results will be biased toward doom and gloom.

 

If you regularly read Thai Visa you would assume 90% of farang/Thai marriages were disasters and every Thai hated every farang and yet day to day experience "on the ground " seems quite different.

 

As is often true, the empty barrels make the most noise and the perpetual whiners in Thailand have been and will be whining where ever they are.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

You are correct.  Certain things that are labor related like haircuts, gardeners are inexpensive.  However, anything in the supermarkets is easily 2 to 5 times more expensive than USA.   I saw a jar of black olives in Makro for $599 baht.  That is just ridiculous. 

 

Your post is nonsense.  https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Thailand&country2=United+States&city1=Pattaya&city2=East+Lansing%2C+MI

 

 

[JMonroe]

A few things have gotten better: there is more variety in stuff you can buy, especially in food. But the negatives are outweighing the positives at this point. My neighborhood in Bangkok has become dense, overdeveloped, noisier and more expensive. I used to be able to go to Phuket three or four times a year, but now I'm lucky if I can go once because it has become so expensive. Even worse, when I came to live here a couple of decades ago, most Thai women were slim, in the 42-45 kg range. Now, it seems the majority of them are 60 kg and up. Western diets, more sugar in Thai food, whatever. The Ministry of Public Health isn't wrong when they say this country has an obesity problem. And many of the women are so materialistic now. Actually, they have been for quite a while already. Don't give me the 'why don't you go home, then?' Life is complicated and sometimes choices are limited for various reasons.

[mike1967]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Fishing park?

I have to admit it's a long time ago that I was fishing. But at that time I did this somewhere at a lake or a river or the sea without any entrance fee.

No doubt you can still go fishing in the sea for free. My point is a 500 percent increase in prices and a 25 percent devaluation of the pound no longer makes Thailand an attractive proposition for many people. Not everything is about money but I can now have a better lifestyle in the UK for less money. Whereas I will still come to Thailand if the baht stays above 40, I now think about where and how I will spend my money. This wasn't a problem a few years back.

[Oliver946]

5 hours ago, villagefarang said:

I like living here and it is better than when I first arrived.

when did you arrive, yesterday?

 

[villagefarang]

Just now, Oliver946 said:

when did you arrive, yesterday?

 

Unlike you I first arrived in 1975 and moved here full-time in 1977.  So no I did not arrive yesterday.

[Suradit69]

36 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Your post is nonsense.  https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Thailand&country2=United+States&city1=Pattaya&city2=East+Lansing%2C+MI

 

 

Yes, I'm devastated by the cost of black olives too. You really made a trenchant observation.

 

Many meals I eat come from the local market and are cheaper than anything similar I could get served up in the US. If I cook at home, the ingredients from the super market are generally cheaper too. The occasional imported items I buy may indeed be more expensive, but I've learned to live with fewer olives and have completely gone without pickled herring or foie gras.

 

i should add that a friend in an upscale Chicago suburb is redoing his kitchen and figures it will end up costing him $100,000. I've just added a large bedroom and bath with air conditioning and enclosed the kitchen with new cabinets, etc in a house I've shifted to for about 15% of what he's spending.

 

 

 

 

[mok199]

2 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Right.But can you change the tune?

 

After three years I am totally over 'Lili Marlene'

Ah VHS ...

[camble]

This will be a better forum when all the pessimists leave

[ramr]

1 hour ago, mike1967 said:

Maybe the way to stop the prices going even higher is to just not go to these places? Thais will charge whatever they can get away with. If you pay they will charge!!!

We have to help ourselves.

 

Unfortunately, if you don't pay and vote with your feet, many will *raise* prices to try to recoup the lost income...it flies in the face of the market logic we expats are familiar with, but TIT.

 

I asked my wife about this mentality when we were talking about the recent "Phuket tourism = in the shitter this year" TV thread.  Specifically, I asked her, "How bad does business need to drop off for a typical Thai before they actually admit to themselves they need to adjust their prices *down* or change their offerings/price points/etc?

 

30%?  No. 

 

50%?  Keep going. 

 

80%?  Nopity nope.

 

Well, how much then?  Answer: 100%.

 

Hardly scientific, and my wife is no economist, but it was certainly an interesting conversation.

 

Face, laziness, sense of entitlement from having it easier in the past, trying to play the long game, stubborn landlords, type of business, expected % of farang customers, and level/type of financial backing all play a role, so no way answers... and yet somehow her answer still seemed illustrative of the Thai mentality.

 

 

 

 

[peterb17]

Interesting 

The main problem with this poll - the people polled are presumably Thai Visa members - the most appallingly miserable, negative, xenophobic, entitled,  often homophobic, transphobic, etc etc.

 

Is there a word Thaiphobic . I’m not sure they realise what is going on in the rest of the world , quite frankly most of Europe is going down the pan ( and of course we dare not mention the USA ) , many places affected by terrorism , places drowning in drugs . 

Political unrest, civil wars, famines , huge pressure from Muslim , Asian and African immigrants.

 

I like living here - as a foreigner you no say whatsoever in the politics, laws etc etc.

 

its easy going- stick the visa rules to the letter- no problems. 

 

The world is going down the pan . 

[high plane drifter]

I like Thailand , but the visa run is something very bad for me,,,   I heard someone last week saying ,  we don't come to Thailand for holiday  ,we come to Thailand for visa runs,

[Shadychris]

7 minutes ago, mike1967 said:

No doubt you can still go fishing in the sea for free. My point is a 500 percent increase in prices and a 25 percent devaluation of the pound no longer makes Thailand an attractive proposition for many people. Not everything is about money but I can now have a better lifestyle in the UK for less money. Whereas I will still come to Thailand if the baht stays above 40, I now think about where and how I will spend my money. This wasn't a problem a few years back.

It's all rather subjective... You have chosen to pick a single case of 500% increase in entry fee charged to foreigners to fishing parks.  It's not the case that everything has gone up by 500%! 

I take you point about the crap state of the GBP £ - but that will affect your worth in any overseas country. I still find many things to be much cheaper in Thailand than they are in the UK - even taking into account the piss poor exchange rate. Utility bills, fuel, local produce, clothing, etc etc. But if you want to live like a westerner in Thailand and shop only in 'supermarkets' like Tesco, living on western brand products then yes you will pay through the nose for it. That has always been the case.

Personally I think that if someone chooses to emigrate to another country then, as you say it should not all be about money. For me there are many many more important factors concerning my quality of life than whether its cheaper or more expensive to live in my country of origin.

[DoctorG]

Wow! Finally got to the end. Didn't contribute because I left already, but good reading anyway.

[mike1967]

2 minutes ago, ramr said:

 

Unfortunately, if you don't pay and vote with your feet, many will *raise* prices to try to recoup the lost income...it flies in the face of the market logic we expats are familiar with, but TIT.

 

I asked my wife about this mentality when we were talking about the recent "Phuket tourism = in the shitter this year" TV thread.  Specifically, I asked her, "How bad does business need to drop off for a typical Thai before they actually admit to themselves they need to adjust their prices *down* or change their offerings/price points/etc?

 

30%?  No. 

 

50%?  Keep going. 

 

80%?  Nopity nope.

 

Well, how much then?  Answer: 100%.

 

Hardly scientific, and my wife is no economist, but it was certainly an interesting conversation.

 

Face, laziness, sense of entitlement from having it easier in the past, trying to play the long game, stubborn landlords, type of business, expected % of farang customers, and level/type of financial backing all play a role, so no way answers... and yet somehow her answer still seemed illustrative of the Thai mentality.

 

 

 

 

Great answer, you definitely get my point. My friends own the Scooter bar chain in Pattaya and recently talked about their concerns due to lack of farang coming to Pattaya. I said you couldn't be more wrong. They keep their prices down with great music. This attracts customers which attracts girls. They are busier than ever and expanding rapidly. It may be a bar but business is business and they know how to make money. Obviously no Thai input. 

[Shadychris]

10 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

Yes, I'm devastated by the cost of black olives too. You really made a trenchant observation.

 

Many meals I eat come from the local market and are cheaper than anything similar I could get served up in the US. If I cook at home, the ingredients from the super market are generally cheaper too. The occasional imported items I buy may indeed be more expensive, but I've learned to live with fewer olives and have completely gone without pickled herring or foie gras.

 

 

 

 

Priceless! 

I was actually wondering - as it was Makro, which is really a wholesale outlet catering to the trade, restaurants etc - just how big was that jar of black olives??

[CliqueFlooring]

We've been here 17 years and have a home, car, business and a young child in school. Upping and going isn't as simple as that, but we've talked about it many times. My pension has a real value of 60% of what it was. When I arrived, it was 72-76 to the GBP. Now its 40. If you check only the past year, the THB was 35 when the USD was $1.30. Now is 31. Its massaged beyond belief and why should the massively wealthy want a strong USD when they can hoard the cash for a rainy day, when its cheap. In Hua Hin, the tourist trade is reporting an awful year. A friend who owns an popular Italian restaurant says its the worst year since he opened 23 years ago. Yes, there are the idiots who say "go, if you don't like it". Well, it ain't that easy and we for sure, would go if it was.

What I didn't see was the poll and I'm sure that if more effort was put into it to make sure people are made aware and can vote , 30,000 would reply and not a measly 300+. You'd still see 90% saying its going to the dogs. Da Nang, by comparison, looks very inviting.