Two Russian Women Killed At Jomthien Beach

[Ave]

The girls in question were known by some russian friends of mine. They just came on holiday to Pattaya, they were not bar girls or anything like that. Of course it's was not a wise idea to sit on the beach at 5 in the morning drunk and vulnerable. The sad thing is that the same day we searched for news on the local website and found no information whatsoever about this event. But the russian news had all the details on their front pages.. yes, some places in Thailand are more dangerous than others and maybe the girls met these guys before and maybe there was some thai male pride involved after rejection, mixed with a few drinks and maybe some drugs like yaba or something. Many horrible things are happening in Pattaya every day. It's a bit of a wildwest. But I'm glad to have found this forum to see that at least somebody is talking about this sad event and not ignoring it.

[HenryB]

now i've been forced to post on this thread, can someone please tell me this chopper gang, is it a thai or farang gang as in my blissful ignorance i've never heard of them.

BB

The Chopper gang a bunch of English over 75 years old.

[Artfullmover]

Looks as if the "Theories have stopped". I sat back and review all the info and opinions all had to offer and have now come up with one that differs a little. I will face up to the fact up front and say I am probally way of track with the following.

The girls may have gone to the beach for a few drinks in the early morning like the had before. Why not they are on holidays and probally didnt want to waste time hanging about the room afterall they are in a beach front paridise ( No travel brouchers going to say stay here close to the beach were its not safe). They may thought the nightlife was great and decided to sleep through the day and party at night. Not a bad idea to have a few drinks by the beach before hitting the sack. There may have been a few of the "thai wanna be Mafia types" on or around that area of the beach on that morning ( and possibly before). They have aproached the girls to give friendly introduction with a view it might be worth there while and end up putting the girls on edge ( Hence the glass, whiskey and coke on the far edge of the table right in front of the girls out of reach of the others.) Placing a phone on the table in full view may give the impression "help" can easly be called. The phone may have been brought out to show just that. Now "Russian" girls being as strong willed as they are ( you must admit were they come from the men would be a lot more intimidating) have told these " Guest" to go away in an offensive degrading manner which they did. The girls may have thought the whole event was just a bit of fun so wouldnt have been to concerned about splitting the scence straight away after all the " Undesirables" have moved on . Now thai bad boys wanting to be bad boys always seem to have on of there numbers wanting to be the "hero" or the Main Man. One steps up to the plate tells the others he's going to show them grabs a weapon and sets off to do his stuff. (I believe one of the group/gang " Thai wanna be mafia" probally had one as a status symble, just like us Falang when we were young with our hotted up cars - someone in the group had one). The " Hero" then runs down to the beach from behind and aproching from right hand side and nails the first girl in the top rigth shoulder of her back. Them as he comes around her nails the other in the lower torso. This would explain the "boot print, it is a heavy impresion that shows a person at pace has stopped quick and backed up and gone no further . The footprints around that area dont show deep impresions nothing close".

Maybe " danny deckchair" was involed may he was the one who done it to show his "Mafia wanna be mates" he was up to ther preceived leage,who knows.

What I have seen thought is the attitude, the dress ( yes combat style boots) and the weapons these wanna be's have.

[mitrapaap]

What kind of person would kill 2 girls in the middle of the day on the beach? This is horrible news.

Where did you read that it was done in the middle of the day?

[mitrapaap]

The Nation

"Police said they were shot and killed on beach chairs on the Jomtien Beach at about 5 am. A security officer of a nearby resort said he heard gunfire and saw a Thai man rushing up from the beach and fleeing on a motorcycle. He checked the beach and found the two Russian women lying dead on the beach chairs."

What brave chaps these Thais are when they have a gun against two women sun bathing in deck chairs or when there are 12 of them kicking a drunk farang on the ground. No wonder their military is so pathetic - beaten by Laos in 1988, nealy beaten by Burma a couple of times and too cowardly to send reinforcements to help patrols under fire in the South.

Sun bathing at 5am in February? You'll show me how.

[pattaya_girl]

they were waiting for the sun to come up apparently. why !! what you saying, thailand is pretty hot at this time of the year in case you dont know, better sometimes to sit on the beach than in a stuffy hotel room. these ladies were probably enjoying there holiday mate ok.

[Meg_2003]

The Nation

"Police said they were shot and killed on beach chairs on the Jomtien Beach at about 5 am. A security officer of a nearby resort said he heard gunfire and saw a Thai man rushing up from the beach and fleeing on a motorcycle. He checked the beach and found the two Russian women lying dead on the beach chairs."

What brave chaps these Thais are when they have a gun against two women sun bathing in deck chairs or when there are 12 of them kicking a drunk farang on the ground. No wonder their military is so pathetic - beaten by Laos in 1988, nealy beaten by Burma a couple of times and too cowardly to send reinforcements to help patrols under fire in the South.

Sun bathing at 5am in February? You'll show me how.

Does it matter whether it happened in February or July? Whats the difference? Is it against the law to watch the sun come up?

Edited February 26, 2007 by Meg_ken2003

[libya 115]

*** UPDATE ***

SOURCE: Pattaya City News: February 26th 2007

Update on the Russian Double Murder case on Jomtien Beach.

An update now on a story that has sent shockwaves through the Russian Community here in Pattaya. As we reported on our last program, two Russian Female Tourists were shot and killed on Jomtien Beach in the early hours of Saturday Morning.

The bodies of Miss Tatiana Tsimfer aged 30 and Miss Liubov Svirkova aged 25 are now in the hands of Russian Embassy Officials as the murder investigation continues, overseen by Police Lieutenant General Asawin, the Region 2 Commander of Police.

The all important CCTV Camera footage has now been examined by Police and excerpts of the tape were released to the press over the weekend. They showed a man, thought to be of Thai origin and wearing a baseball cap, loitering near the two women on the promenade for a few minutes. He then makes his way down to the beach and remains out of site of the camera for a period of 9 seconds before he is seen running back up to the promenade and is then seen on another camera leaving on his motorbike.

Footprints at the scene suggest he was wearing combat boots and although the identity of the shooter is unknown to us, the Police tell us they believe they known who he is and for fear of compromising the investigation, his details are being held back. Further investigations into the murder victims suggest they are from affluent families back in Russia and because they were only checked into their Hotel for a short period of time, Police believe they were not involved in prostitution as claimed in a number of Thai National Newspapers.

This intense Police investigation continues as the eyes of the world are on Pattaya and the Police who are under intense pressure to arrest someone and fast. That is all the information we have for now, but be assured we are following this story very closely and we will report any updates to you as soon as we receive them.

[frodo]

*** UPDATE ***

SOURCE: Pattaya City News: February 26th 2007

Update on the Russian Double Murder case on Jomtien Beach.

An update now on a story that has sent shockwaves through the Russian Community here in Pattaya. As we reported on our last program, two Russian Female Tourists were shot and killed on Jomtien Beach in the early hours of Saturday Morning.

The bodies of Miss Tatiana Tsimfer aged 30 and Miss Liubov Svirkova aged 25 are now in the hands of Russian Embassy Officials as the murder investigation continues, overseen by Police Lieutenant General Asawin, the Region 2 Commander of Police.

The all important CCTV Camera footage has now been examined by Police and excerpts of the tape were released to the press over the weekend. They showed a man, thought to be of Thai origin and wearing a baseball cap, loitering near the two women on the promenade for a few minutes. He then makes his way down to the beach and remains out of site of the camera for a period of 9 seconds before he is seen running back up to the promenade and is then seen on another camera leaving on his motorbike.

Footprints at the scene suggest he was wearing combat boots and although the identity of the shooter is unknown to us, the Police tell us they believe they known who he is and for fear of compromising the investigation, his details are being held back. Further investigations into the murder victims suggest they are from affluent families back in Russia and because they were only checked into their Hotel for a short period of time, Police believe they were not involved in prostitution as claimed in a number of Thai National Newspapers.

This intense Police investigation continues as the eyes of the world are on Pattaya and the Police who are under intense pressure to arrest someone and fast. That is all the information we have for now, but be assured we are following this story very closely and we will report any updates to you as soon as we receive them.

Thanks for that update, Libya 115, most appreciated. I can only hope all the pathetic nonsense that has taken over this TV thread will stop. There are no links to prostitution, they appear to have came from an affluent family, there is no credible anything about mafia types, and they were tourists who had every right to sit on a beach and mind their own business. Nothing wrong with that.

Edited February 26, 2007 by frodo

[Falux2]

*** UPDATE ***

SOURCE: Pattaya City News: February 26th 2007

Update on the Russian Double Murder case on Jomtien Beach.

An update now on a story that has sent shockwaves through the Russian Community here in Pattaya. As we reported on our last program, two Russian Female Tourists were shot and killed on Jomtien Beach in the early hours of Saturday Morning.

The bodies of Miss Tatiana Tsimfer aged 30 and Miss Liubov Svirkova aged 25 are now in the hands of Russian Embassy Officials as the murder investigation continues, overseen by Police Lieutenant General Asawin, the Region 2 Commander of Police.

The all important CCTV Camera footage has now been examined by Police and excerpts of the tape were released to the press over the weekend. They showed a man, thought to be of Thai origin and wearing a baseball cap, loitering near the two women on the promenade for a few minutes. He then makes his way down to the beach and remains out of site of the camera for a period of 9 seconds before he is seen running back up to the promenade and is then seen on another camera leaving on his motorbike.

Footprints at the scene suggest he was wearing combat boots and although the identity of the shooter is unknown to us, the Police tell us they believe they known who he is and for fear of compromising the investigation, his details are being held back. Further investigations into the murder victims suggest they are from affluent families back in Russia and because they were only checked into their Hotel for a short period of time, Police believe they were not involved in prostitution as claimed in a number of Thai National Newspapers.

This intense Police investigation continues as the eyes of the world are on Pattaya and the Police who are under intense pressure to arrest someone and fast. That is all the information we have for now, but be assured we are following this story very closely and we will report any updates to you as soon as we receive them.

Thanks for that info. But I'm sure some will still not feel sorry to have talked out of number 2

[Briggsy]

*** UPDATE ***

SOURCE: Pattaya City News: February 26th 2007

Update on the Russian Double Murder case on Jomtien Beach.

This intense Police investigation continues as the eyes of the world are on Pattaya and the Police who are under intense pressure to arrest someone and fast. That is all the information we have for now, but be assured we are following this story very closely and we will report any updates to you as soon as we receive them.

That's a surefire recipe for disaster.

[Prakanong]

"Thanks for that info. But I'm sure some will still not feel sorry to have talked out of number 2"

I am sure they will not either but it says a lot about them if they do not retract statements made if they are found to be false.

Of course they will not and the next time it will be the same all over again.

The lynch mob small minded mentality of some amazes me.

[britmaveric]

To be honest I could care less if they are tourists or prostitutes posing as tourists. It really makes no difference to me, they are people whose lives were snuffed out way too soon.

Now what everyone should be concentrating are on the killers and motives behind it. This isn't any random act I think everyone can agree on that much.

Deckchair attendent

Chopper Gang?

Dunno the investigation has taken another bizzare turn, never heard of the Chopper gang.

Edited February 26, 2007 by britmaveric

[GrGr]

Just some info on the murdered ladies from the Russian travel forums and Russian media:

1. Both from Kemerovo (western Siberia)

2. Worked in the cellphone business, though in different companies. Financially independent.

3.According to the interview with one the victim's father (Tatiana's), she sounded scared during their last telephone conversation and mentioned she received some sort of threats.

[Peterpan]

"Thanks for that info. But I'm sure some will still not feel sorry to have talked out of number 2"

I am sure they will not either but it says a lot about them if they do not retract statements made if they are found to be false.

Of course they will not and the next time it will be the same all over again.

The lynch mob small minded mentality of some amazes me.

So Sad that two young inoccent girls died from an inhumane person on there first Thailand holiday experience.

My 20 year old daughter is lucky, I gave her all the rules to follow whenshe comes here, these poor girls never had a chance.

I do hope he is caught before page 40, and will all on this forum have more respect for the dead girls and there families. I know some of you do but most dont.

In 1995 when I was working here, I used to go to the beach at 5 am and watch the sun come up, but I knew the rules.

[Briggsy]

Both "gang" and "chopper" are now words in Thai. As the police have now stated the shooter was Thai, (reversing a previous statement) and that no TV members know of a farang M/C club with this name, one would be led to think this is a Thai gang.

[gmac]

Just spoke to my g/f in Jomtien where the press have recently been briefed, and brief appears to be the word for it! Enquiries are ongoing and the BiB are currently looking for a Thai man (the deck chair attendant?) caught on camera running away and another man, a foreigner, thought possibly to be South African who they were photographed swimming with a few days ago.

[sonnyJ]

"Thanks for that info. But I'm sure some will still not feel sorry to have talked out of number 2"

I am sure they will not either but it says a lot about them if they do not retract statements made if they are found to be false.

Of course they will not and the next time it will be the same all over again.

The lynch mob small minded mentality of some amazes me.

I don't think this topic has gone so wrong after all, compared to some previous threads on TV.

Most of the posts have been more speculations than statements as far as I see.

We cannot rule out any possibilities in attempt to find out what really happened.

Police talked of prostitutes in the first place and had to aplogize for that since they are a public organization. Still they cannot rule out that possibility complitely. After all it is Pattaya.

We all can agree on that this was a horrible crime. But I would be bored to death reading "So sorry" 200 times..

This brings us to the question for purpose of very existance of us, the TV members.

[Khun ?]

Some of this still does not make sense, Affluent families or telephone workers and now the father

is saying they were in fear. If I was the deck chair guy I would of ran if someone was shooting

and also be in there collecting 100K baht for what I seen if it was a Farang South African.

The only somewhat witness is saying a thai scrambled off on a scooter from the area after shots were heard. The family would have to know more of this being scared story would seem to be the case,

sure it would not be we are scared and left it at that.

What happened to the moped gang that they were seen with, Jesters going to get pissed on this one maybe.

Seems even the city where they are from has changed and could it be respected family.

Mekong does not fit into some of this theory very well also. If they were in fear and had local phone numbers wouldn't someone local have that info.

Someone is definitely going to fry for this one but good to hear the puzzle does have pieces being put

together. The police run around on mopeds with pistols right.

[bulmercke]

Sorry - but nothing to date that has been released by the BIB proves incontrovertibly that this was simply a run-in gone wrong with Thai males:

"They showed a man, thought to be of Thai origin and wearing a baseball cap, loitering near the two women on the promenade for a few minutes."

Thais work with foreigners here in Pattaya in all businesses including prostitution.

And...."Further investigations into the murder victims suggest they are from affluent families back in Russia and because they were only checked into their Hotel for a short period of time, Police believe they were not involved in prostitution as claimed in a number of Thai National Newspapers."

This statement doesn't mean anything. It doesn't prove, without doubt, they hadn't attracted the attention of some unscrupulous pimps.

These two poor unfortunate victims were, without doubt, very attractive and who's to say that they weren't being coerced into prostitution here in Pattaya.

The statements issued by the police so far are purely speculative and nothing concrete has been established or proven to link these two poor girls with any individual or group of individuals whether he or they be foreign or Thai.

If it was all about a foreign prostitution ring/gang, which I still believe it was, then, of course, the BIB would never admit to such a connection. They can never admit to the vicious activities of Russian gangs in their own backyard as it would make them out as having been powerless and impotent in their previous policing and eradication of such groups.

Let's not forget that in the case of the rape and murder of Katherine Horton on Samui in December 2005 a British newspaper reported (it had two of it's own reporters on the island soon after) that the initial reaction of the local police - in an attempt to limit damage to tourism on the island - was to concoct some fanciful reason for her having died i.e having slipped off rocks at night or having drowned because of her "inebriated state". These conversations by local police were overheard by more than one individual at the time and duly reported in the British press.

For the Thai police this will inevitably be a face saving exercise and anything they come up with should be treated with the upmost caution - even treated with suspicion.

On demand a scape-goat will surely be found in the next few days and the finger will be conveniently pointed away from organised criminal gangs operating in Pattaya and the boys in brown alleged involvement with them.

Edited February 26, 2007 by bulmercke

[Briggsy]

Someone is definitely going to fry for this one but good to hear the puzzle does have pieces being put

together. The police run around on mopeds with pistols right.

They also wear combat boots and have access to the more expensive guns.

During the war on drugs, the murderers were often wearing baseball caps as in this case. It's not easy wearing a baseball cap riding a motorbike.

[PaulUSA302]

If I am ever killed in Thailand, I hope the moderators won't let the actions leading up to my death be debated on this board.

These two women were killed and they are being painted as whores, dregs of humanity, evil minions and being a part of those in the mafia....

If I am killed, I hope the killer leaves a note explaining that it was a random act of violence, perpetrated by a person who mistakenly attacked me thinking I was a different person. Better yet, maybe he or she could post it here on this board... But then I am sure a debate would break out telling the killer that he is a liar and I was a mafia/gang member/rap artist/pinball wizard/basketball player/party clown/international giggler who happen to piss off the wrong people who were hel_l-bent to take over the deck-chair that I was sitting in!

[britmaveric]

Well Paul your death will be debated too I'm afraid. This is a good thing because for the most part this has been a very good thread, sure speculation is rabid, but I think this is rather healthy. I just hope the MIB are doing as much, but I have my doubts.

[Prakanong]

"We cannot rule out any possibilities in attempt to find out what really happened."

And just how are the TV members speculating about what they know little about going to find out what really happened??

Are the BiB now looking to Thaivisa for insight and direction - LOL - now that would be funny

[Khun ?]

If I am ever killed in Thailand, I hope the moderators won't let the actions leading up to my death be debated on this board.

These two women were killed and they are being painted as whores, dregs of humanity, evil minions and being a part of those in the mafia....

If I am killed, I hope the killer leaves a note explaining that it was a random act of violence, perpetrated by a person who mistakenly attacked me thinking I was a different person. Better yet, maybe he or she could post it here on this board... But then I am sure a debate would break out telling the killer that he is a liar and I was a mafia/gang member/rap artist/pinball wizard/basketball player/party clown/international giggler who happen to piss off the wrong people who were hel_l-bent to take over the deck-chair that I was sitting in!

Paul

Unless they find you on the beach close to boyz town wearing pink panties don't worry about it, you will not receive much more than a few post. If you do not want to read message boards then ldon't. Nothing is more than speculation from much that is known of Pattaya and the situation of an ongoing case.

bulmercke

Reasonable synopsis, knowing much of the past and present history of Pattaya.

[BlackJack]

TV crew re inacting the scene down there tonight.

Trodding all over the "evidence"

Security Cameras all over the place and so the girls may have felt safe sitting there - lots of light too - and not dark like some areas - however TIT and most of the cameras werent working

False sense of security - unfortunately

Maybe now they will turn the cameras on

[Briggsy]

Hold on. A re-enactment means they've beaten a confession out of someone, doesn't it?

[TimTang]

This statement doesn't mean anything. It doesn't prove, without doubt, they hadn't attracted the notice of unscrupulous pimps.

These two poor unfortunate victims were, without doubt, very attractive and who's to say that they weren't being coerced into prostitution here in Pattaya.

bulmercke

You made some interesting statements in that post and it really got me thinking.

If you're a beautiful young single woman going on a vacation in an exotic tropical paradise, I'm sure you'd have thoughts of being swept off your feet by prince charming, falling in love and possibly starting a relationship with your new Mr. right.

When you get there the first thing you do is hit the bar scene and check out the action to see if there are any candidates that fulfil your fantasy.

The pimps on the other hand see all women as prostitutes and as far as they're concerned you're just a freelancer operating on their turf.

The women aren't aware of this, they're just there to have fun.

I'm just speculating here, but if this scenario does indeed exist, Pattaya could be potentially lethal for any single girls that go to holiday there.

Scary thought! I could be wrong because I haven't been there for years.

[PaulUSA302]

Paul

Unless they find you on the beach close to boyz town wearing pink panties don't worry about it, you will not receive much more than a few post. If you do not want to read message boards then ldon't. Nothing is more than speculation from much that is known of Pattaya and the situation of an ongoing case.

bulmercke

Reasonable synopsis, knowing much of the past and present history of Pattaya.

I don't care if I am found on the beach, dead, laying over a fallen tree, wearing a pink thong, glass slippers, a tiara, feather boa, pasties, boxing gloves, and a I "Heart" BoyGeorge tee-shirt..... I don't want you guys talking about it... Just move along please (Nothing to talk about here........)

[Prakanong]

Paul

Unless they find you on the beach close to boyz town wearing pink panties don't worry about it, you will not receive much more than a few post. If you do not want to read message boards then ldon't. Nothing is more than speculation from much that is known of Pattaya and the situation of an ongoing case.

bulmercke

Reasonable synopsis, knowing much of the past and present history of Pattaya.

I don't care if I am found on the beach, dead, laying over a fallen tree, wearing a pink thong, glass slippers, a tiara, feather boa, pasties, boxing gloves, and a I "Heart" BoyGeorge tee-shirt..... I don't want you guys talking about it... Just move along please (Nothing to talk about here........)

That had me laughing more than Little Britain on BBC Entertainment tonight - good one