Two Russian Women Killed At Jomthien Beach

[Mai Krap]

Lets face it, murder is murder. The way its handled by the authorities does not matter. Its Thailand, and as long as you are a "white boy" or a farang who cares? They could care less as long as we are dumb eneough to keep pumping money into this third world dump, they will keep on taking our money. I know that all those "I have lived here for a 100 years, blah, blah, blah farangs" can't beleieve what happens here and bury thier heads deeper into the sand evrytime something ugly happens in the "Amazing Thailand". Live with it, they are corrupt and as ruthless as anywhere else, civilised people? I don't think so.

Niether I nor any of the people I call friends have their heads in the sand. Humans are violant by nature, you do not need a paticuler language nor culture nor ethnicity to commit murder. Your post is complete nonsense on many levels and basicly you have your story inverted. The people who have been here the longest know full well the things that happen when the news is not watching. Its those who have been here the least who are the ultimate apologists when it comes to making the undigestable and somtimes violent reality into something they can stomach. It is those apologist tourists go stumbling around Thailand high on whatever who tend to walk past the bodies as they never look down until they step upon a corpse, only then do they stumble back into reality.

It seems your the one living a fantasy where you believe there is justice in Yankee land, please dont get me started on that. Bitch about the police and foerensics all you wish but lay off Thailand and Thai Culture as you know nothing of it from your posting.

Edited February 27, 2007 by Mai Krap

[suiging]

This act of violence is so horrific that many who jumped in in the early stages with " sex, Mafia, hit-man " posts, were in all probabilty commenting in the hope that it was true. The thought that innocent holiday makers could fall victims to such an outrage, did and still does, not bear thinking about.

As to the MIB. Too many on here spend their waking hours watching CSI. Nowhere, apart from Hollywood, has access un-fetted to limitless resources to find out who did this in the blink of an eye. These guys have families too and will want to catch these b#$%^tards as badly as you and I. Are they as well trained as we would like?...................no, but give them a chance and everyone who can contribute should give them their total support in putting this case to rest and taking out the scum before they do it again, or inspire some yabba-head to try and become just as famous.

[Briggsy]

Summary:

deckchair attendent

Thai

Farang

Thai

Chopper Gang (Thai)

Russian(s) from same flight

Farang Gangs

Uh if this wasnt so serious I'd have to laff, great police work MIB.

Good post but you've missed a couple, Thai/farang combo and the unofficial tour guide.

Thai police - what a bunch of incompetent, morally bankrupt pricks.

[bino]

Regardless of who the victims were or what they did, they surely didn't deserve to be executed as they were.

I can't believe that this topic has just surpassed 600 posts, and most of them are discussing an unfair / unproven labelling of these women.

The people that I feel the most for are the friends, family and public in Russia. The Thaivisa website ranks highly in Google, and anyone who does any kind of search on this subject - russian murders pattaya, Liubov Svirkova, etc - is getting this thread in their first page of results. (Particularily on google.ru).

It must be awful for their families and friends in Russia who are trying to find facts about their loved ones and are getting this thread full of speculation labelling these ladies as sex workers. Gotta be heartbreaking for them.

Edited February 27, 2007 by bino

[Prakanong]

Summary:

deckchair attendent

Thai

Farang

Thai

Chopper Gang (Thai)

Russian(s) from same flight

Farang Gangs

Uh if this wasnt so serious I'd have to laff, great police work MIB.

Good post but you've missed a couple, Thai/farang combo and the unofficial tour guide.

Thai police - what a bunch of incompetent, morally bankrupt pricks.

Exactly - they went through all this sort of nonesense with the Welsh girl in Chiang Mai a few years ago. The Tour Guide was also a scapegoat then as was the farang guest house owner.

Well the DNS evidence from the Welsh police point to a Tourist Policeman so the story goes but he has been transferred and no-one ever caught for it.

This is just to point out they do have a history of running around like headless chickens

I thought this might be over with the way they reacted to Katherine Horton. I know its was because the loss of the tourist money was involved and thus it is this time porentially

I see the same guy is on the case as the Horton case - we might see movement now??

[kurgen]

How tall is Taxin ?

[Prakanong]

How tall is Taxin ?

I bet they have checked where he was!

Some on here think he ordered his guys in combat boots to do it to discredit Thailand more though

[Briggsy]

Exactly - they went through all this sort of nonesense with the Welsh girl in Chiang Mai a few years ago. The Tour Guide was also a scapegoat then as was the farang guest house owner.

Well the DNS evidence from the Welsh police point to a Tourist Policeman so the story goes but he has been transferred and no-one ever caught for it.

This is just to point out they do have a history of running around like headless chickens

I thought this might be over with the way they reacted to Katherine Horton. I know its was because the loss of the tourist money was involved and thus it is this time porentially

I see the same guy is on the case as the Horton case - we might see movement now??

And don't forget the slaying of the 2 Australians on Doi Ang Khang, Chiang Mai in which the clueless keystone cops couldn't be bothered to investigate so just beat confessions out of 2 hill tribe farm labourers. They were released and cleared of any involvement 2 or 3 years later after the Queen asked for the case to be re-examined.

[kmart]

Regardless of who the victims were or what they did, they surely didn't deserve to be executed as they were.

I can't believe that this topic has just surpassed 600 posts, and most of them are discussing an unfair / unproven labelling of these women.

The people that I feel the most for are the friends, family and public in Russia. The Thaivisa website ranks highly in Google, and anyone who does any kind of search on this subject - russian murders pattaya, Liubov Svirkova, etc - is getting this thread in their first page of results. (Particularily on google.ru).

It must be awful for their families and friends in Russia who are trying to find facts and are getting this thread full of speculation labelling these ladies as sex workers. It must be heartbreaking for them.

I agree. It must be terrible for the girl's families to have first the tragedy, then the inept bumbling incompetance of the dorks in brown who can only ever be relied on to screw up. The silly assumptions and petty snide remarks here are not doing anyone any favours too. Although given the conflicting reports coming from official channels that is to be expected...

Hope to heck that this is resolved soon, and the families can finally arrange to have their daughters laid to rest. RIP.

[Prakanong]

Regardless of who the victims were or what they did, they surely didn't deserve to be executed as they were.

I can't believe that this topic has just surpassed 600 posts, and most of them are discussing an unfair / unproven labelling of these women.

The people that I feel the most for are the friends, family and public in Russia. The Thaivisa website ranks highly in Google, and anyone who does any kind of search on this subject - russian murders pattaya, Liubov Svirkova, etc - is getting this thread in their first page of results. (Particularily on google.ru).

It must be awful for their families and friends in Russia who are trying to find facts and are getting this thread full of speculation labelling these ladies as sex workers. It must be heartbreaking for them.

I agree. It must be terrible for the girl's families to have first the tragedy, then the inept bumbling incompetance of the dorks in brown who can only ever be relied on to screw up. The silly assumptions and petty snide remarks here are not doing anyone any favours too. Although given the conflicting reports coming from official channels that is to be expected...

Hope to heck that this is resolved soon, and the families can finally arrange to have their daughters laid to rest. RIP.

Look at the case of the Kiwi bodybuilder last year. OK he was not a nice guy but he was still murdered by a gunman.

The Pattaya Police were seen on TV receiveing flowers and accepting praise from the dead mans mother and sister for catching the culprit so quick

Except

They had his girlfriend for ordering it and have never caught the gunman as far as I know

The girlfriend walked after ertain moneis paid for bail or something were kept!

[taxexile]

i doubt if they will ever catch the killer .

an inept and bumbling police force with only rudimentary skills in evidence gathering and inquiry procedures , a transient population and the thai propensity for not noticing anything anywhere or anytime , all add up to , as others have said , headless chickens.

on the beach at 5am , its possible these girls could have unwittingly annoyed/offended/refused some local psychotic earlier and have sadly paid the price.

unless someone hands the killer to them on a plate , i believe they have little chance of solving it.

my money , however , is on colonel mustard.

[thai_narak]

Regardless of who the victims were or what they did, they surely didn't deserve to be executed as they were.

I can't believe that this topic has just surpassed 600 posts, and most of them are discussing an unfair / unproven labelling of these women.

The people that I feel the most for are the friends, family and public in Russia. The Thaivisa website ranks highly in Google, and anyone who does any kind of search on this subject - russian murders pattaya, Liubov Svirkova, etc - is getting this thread in their first page of results. (Particularily on google.ru).

It must be awful for their families and friends in Russia who are trying to find facts about their loved ones and are getting this thread full of speculation labelling these ladies as sex workers. Gotta be heartbreaking for them.

i agree...

for all the relatives and friends of the late tatiana and livbov who may happen to visit this thread, our condolences to you all... and please forgive us and ignore the pricks who have been writing non-sense in this thread about the two innocent souls.

may they rest in peace...

[Prakanong]

Regardless of who the victims were or what they did, they surely didn't deserve to be executed as they were.

I can't believe that this topic has just surpassed 600 posts, and most of them are discussing an unfair / unproven labelling of these women.

The people that I feel the most for are the friends, family and public in Russia. The Thaivisa website ranks highly in Google, and anyone who does any kind of search on this subject - russian murders pattaya, Liubov Svirkova, etc - is getting this thread in their first page of results. (Particularily on google.ru).

It must be awful for their families and friends in Russia who are trying to find facts about their loved ones and are getting this thread full of speculation labelling these ladies as sex workers. Gotta be heartbreaking for them.

i agree...

for all the relatives and friends of the late tatiana and livbov who may happen to visit this thread, our condolences to you all... and please forgive us and ignore the pricks who have been writing non-sense in this thread about the two innocent souls.

may they rest in peace...

Well said and I totally agree.

I can just imagine what would be written about my own 27 year old sister if something tragic like this happend on her visit to Thailand - it would be awuful reading I bet

[hammered]

Regardless of who the victims were or what they did, they surely didn't deserve to be executed as they were.

I can't believe that this topic has just surpassed 600 posts, and most of them are discussing an unfair / unproven labelling of these women.

The people that I feel the most for are the friends, family and public in Russia. The Thaivisa website ranks highly in Google, and anyone who does any kind of search on this subject - russian murders pattaya, Liubov Svirkova, etc - is getting this thread in their first page of results. (Particularily on google.ru).

It must be awful for their families and friends in Russia who are trying to find facts about their loved ones and are getting this thread full of speculation labelling these ladies as sex workers. Gotta be heartbreaking for them.

i agree...

for all the relatives and friends of the late tatiana and livbov who may happen to visit this thread, our condolences to you all... and please forgive us and ignore the pricks who have been writing non-sense in this thread about the two innocent souls.

may they rest in peace...

Well said and I totally agree.

I can just imagine what would be written about my own 27 year old sister if something tragic like this happend on her visit to Thailand - it would be awuful reading I bet

agreed.

[Jaonghais]

There are two probable scenarios to this tragic event as I see it.

1). This was the work of criminal elements.

2). It was the reaction of a national of Thailand who lost face.

If it was scenario #1 then all law abiding citizens, residents and tourists have not to much to worry about.

If it was scenario #2 then we all must tread softly on the ground.

My deepest sympathy to the families and friends of these two human beings.

My the Kingdom of Heaven hold you close and your names be written in diamonds in the sky.

[moskito]

Out of http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/26...es_30027896.php

+++++

Police find few clues in the murder of Russian women

Police are offering a Bt100,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of the killer of two Russian tourists at Jomtien Beach on Saturday morning.

Investigators have few clues as to a motive behind the killings.

Tatiana Tsimfer, 30, and Liubov Svirkova, 25, were found dead in their beach chairs at about 5am on Saturday.

Five spent 9mm cartridges were recovered from the scene.

Post mortem examinations show one woman was shot six times and the other four times, according to Provincial Police Region 2 commissioner Lt-General Asawin Kwanmuang.

Security cameras captured a "tall man of indistinct nationality" parking a motorcycle at a beachside footpath, running up to the women and shooting them before fleeing.

Police have discounted robbery.

"From the gunman's dress - jeans and boots - we suspect he is a member of a Pattaya teenage gang," Asawin said.

Both the women worked as telephone operators in Vladimir City in Russia and were visiting Thailand with a tour group.

Asawin said the women entered Thailand on February 16. They separated from the group to travel by themselves.

"They probably had nothing to do with the transnational prostitution," Asawin said. "I have no idea what they did during the eight days in Pattaya to lead to their murder."

A counsellor at the Russian Embassy in Bangkok, Vladimir Pronin, met the police yesterday and rejected allegations in local newspapers the women were involved in prostitution.

He expressed concern for Russian tourists in Thailand.

Police set up a temporary command post at a hotel near the scene.

Tvelve units have been assigned to the case that police worry might affect tourism at the popular seaside resort.

Pattaya police superintendent Colonel Sutin Trappuang said investigators were looking at prostitution, drugs and sex as motives.

Police are questioning known members of Russian gangs living in Pattaya and people at night entertainment venues on the city's Walking Street. thread about the two innocent souls.

++++++++++++++++++

Unfortunately nothing important new so far. Question is if police doesnt want to provide more informations to the media which I will understand too, as we all know how media works.

I wonder a bit about the amount of shots fired. At examination they found 10 shots fired at both poor girls, but only 5 cartridges were recovered. On the pictures u can see a police guy with a metal detector so where are the other 5?

As far as I know data of telephone calls are stored somewhere so not difficult to find out from where to where and who made and received the call.

Sorry, but 10 !! shots firerd doesnt really look like a professional, more like a jealous or lostfaced prick.

Still a lot of questions and I hope the world is looking to Thailand until this brutal murderer is 100% solved.

Hope furthermore this topic here stays on TOP till ALL questions are answered

May be they should pay more than just a tea money of 100,000.- Baht 3000.- USD.....it is worth it

My apologies and condolences to their family and friends may the girls rest in peace

[Prakanong]

There are two probable scenarios to this tragic event as I see it.

1). This was the work of criminal elements.

2). It was the reaction of a national of Thailand who lost face.

If it was scenario #1 then all law abiding citizens, residents and tourists have not to much to worry about.

If it was scenario #2 then we all must tread softly on the ground.

My deepest sympathy to the families and friends of these two human beings.

My the Kingdom of Heaven hold you close and your names be written in diamonds in the sky.

"If it was scenario #1 then all law abiding citizens, residents and tourists have not to much to worry about."

Why would this be?

Are you assuming that the girls were also criminal elements to reach this conclusion ie it was only those involved in nefarious activities that were hurt?

What about if it was the work of criminal elements and the girls were total innocents?

Your logic tree is not complete!

[Jaonghais]

There are two probable scenarios to this tragic event as I see it.

1). This was the work of criminal elements.

2). It was the reaction of a national of Thailand who lost face.

If it was scenario #1 then all law abiding citizens, residents and tourists have not to much to worry about.

If it was scenario #2 then we all must tread softly on the ground.

My deepest sympathy to the families and friends of these two human beings.

My the Kingdom of Heaven hold you close and your names be written in diamonds in the sky.

"If it was scenario #1 then all law abiding citizens, residents and tourists have not to much to worry about."

Why would this be?

Are you assuming that the girls were also criminal elements to reach this conclusion ie it was only those involved in nefarious activities that were hurt?

What about if it was the work of criminal elements and the girls were total innocents?

Your logic tree is not complete!

Read the words not between the lines as you see it

[jumnien]

In the West, when someone loses face and shoots innocent young women we call him a criminal. In Thailand, when someone loses face and shoots innocent young women he is also called a criminal. I don't see that there are two possibilities.

[Jaonghais]

There are two probable scenarios to this tragic event as I see it.

1). This was the work of criminal elements.

2). It was the reaction of a national of Thailand who lost face.

If it was scenario #1 then all law abiding citizens, residents and tourists have not to much to worry about.

If it was scenario #2 then we all must tread softly on the ground.

My deepest sympathy to the families and friends of these two human beings.

My the Kingdom of Heaven hold you close and your names be written in diamonds in the sky.

"If it was scenario #1 then all law abiding citizens, residents and tourists have not to much to worry about."

Why would this be?

Are you assuming that the girls were also criminal elements to reach this conclusion ie it was only those involved in nefarious activities that were hurt?

What about if it was the work of criminal elements and the girls were total innocents?

Your logic tree is not complete!

Read the words not between the lines as you see it

And #2

[AA1]

Regardless of who the victims were or what they did, they surely didn't deserve to be executed as they were.

I can't believe that this topic has just surpassed 600 posts, and most of them are discussing an unfair / unproven labelling of these women.

The people that I feel the most for are the friends, family and public in Russia. The Thaivisa website ranks highly in Google, and anyone who does any kind of search on this subject - russian murders pattaya, Liubov Svirkova, etc - is getting this thread in their first page of results. (Particularily on google.ru).

It must be awful for their families and friends in Russia who are trying to find facts about their loved ones and are getting this thread full of speculation labelling these ladies as sex workers. Gotta be heartbreaking for them.

i agree...

for all the relatives and friends of the late tatiana and livbov who may happen to visit this thread, our condolences to you all... and please forgive us and ignore the pricks who have been writing non-sense in this thread about the two innocent souls.

may they rest in peace...

Well said and I totally agree.

I can just imagine what would be written about my own 27 year old sister if something tragic like this happend on her visit to Thailand - it would be awuful reading I bet

agreed.

I read this site as an English friend of mine is thinking of moving to Thailand and the Jomtien area is one of the areas he was looking at. I have shown him some of your letters on what the Pattaya are is now like and recommended he cross that area off his list.

I have, however, been horrified at some of the so-called 'intelligent' comments made by many writers.

Here were 2 young girls - their nationality is irrelavent - who were on a 2 weeks holiday in Thailand who were shot dead on the beach.

To my knowledge:-

There is NO evidence that they wished to overstay (unlike many farange men here).

There is NO evidence that they were involved in any illegal activity.

So until any evidence to the contrary, they were here to enjoy a holiday.

They may have enjoyed a drink or 2 but don't most of us when on holiday.

They may have had a holiday romance. So what. I don't know and it is NONE of my business.

I beleive in "People are innocent UNTIL proven guilty".

I am delighted that all through there are a few people who stand up and regret the tragic death of the 2 girls rather than use it as an excuse for writing inane and stupid comments.

[mumbu]

I saw a comment regarding this incident on Russian television channel NTV which is available here in US. The commentator has a reputation of being a serious one commenting on various global issues. He said that " Russians are known to be unafraid of anything when it comes to nonexpensive travel destionations" but it is time to reconsider Thailand as the one. He mentioned growing violence in the South, bombings in BKK and recent other murders of Westerners including Brittish girl in Samui. Based on his comments and reputation (he is known to have closed ties with government and most probably FSB

-current analogue of KGB), I have very serious doubts that this case has anything to do with Russian mafia or other illegal activity involving Russians in Pattaya.

[moskito]

A bit off Topic...... just daily news how to solve problems here in Thailand

Woman gunned down in Kamala

KAMALA: The long-term partner of a well-known local businessman was gunned down in front of The Club restaurant, on the main road through Kamala, around 7:30 pm on Saturday.

Lt Col Monsak Suebsuwan, Duty Inspector at Kamala Police Station, told the Gazette that the victim is Nongnuch Kongprueb, 42, partner of Harry Tawando, 72.

Col Monsak, the leading investigator in the case, explained to the Gazette that Mr Tawando, a Dutch national, is involved in the property business, specifically in Kamala and along Nanai Rd in Patong. “We suspect that the murder was over a business conflict,” he said.

“That evening Ms Nongnuch received a phone call from a man who asked to meet her at the restaurant so he could give her the Bann Naka Resort Co Ltd company stamp,” he said.

“The men said that they were from an accountant’s office and that the company stamp was ready for her,” he said, adding that was why she had agreed to meet them.

“But she didn’t know that two men who called her were hiding near her home,” he said.

“K. Nongnuch asked an employee to go with her, but the two men followed her on a dark blue Honda Dream to the front of restaurant. The man riding pillion pulled a gun and shot her in the back. They then fled the scene.

“The employee who accompanied her called Mr Tawando. K. Nongnuch was then brought to Patong Hospital where she later died,” Col Monsak added.

Police have arrested one suspect, who has denied any involvement in the killing. He is being held at Kamala Police Station.

Polcie are still searching for the other man believed to be involved in the murder.

Services for K. Nongnuch will be held tonight at 8 pm at Laem Petch Temple in Patong. Cremation will be tomorrow at 1 pm.

Brought to you by:

The Phuket Gazette

February 26-02-2007

17:58 local time (GMT +7)

[moskito]

....sorry just daily news from another tourist center.........promised its the last one, i dont want to waste more space here, just want you face the facts where you live if you live in Thailand

Father murdered in Chalong

CHALONG: Four men were arrested this morning after gunning down 44-year-old construction worker Phichai Wanlayapetch in broad daylight after he dropped his young child off at a day care center in Chalong.

The men arrested are Sangkom “Kom” Anukul, 46, Watcharin “Kai” Janya, 35, and Somkanay “Lek” Sriphan, 36, all from Surat Thani; and Suchart “Neung” or “Bao” Sornsang, 33, from Nakhorn Sri Thammarat.

Chalong Police Station Duty Inspector Lt Col Chokchai Sutthimak told the Gazette that Sangkom, Watcharin and Suchart pulled up in a bronze-colored Mitsubishi sedan as Pichai walked to his car 7:40 am as Pichai left the day care center.

“They pulled up behind Pichai to identify him as he walked to his car, which was parked in front of GT Construction materials shop, about 40 meter from where he was shot,” he said.

They shot Pichai three times with a .357 handgun, hitting him with “through-and-out” wounds in the neck and right hip, and scratching his left waist. “Phichai fell and died at the scene,” Col Chokchai said.

“The attackers then drove off. Suchart later got in a gold/bronze-colored Mazda pickup, which Somkanay was driving,” he added.

“Chalong Police then co-ordinated with other Phuket police officers, and finally caught all of them within three hours. Sangkom and Watcharin were caught in the Mitsubishi sedan at 8 am at the intersection of Kwang Rd and Chao Fa West Rd.

“Suchart in the Mazda pickup was caught at 9:40 am at the Shell petrol station in Mai Khao,” he said

“During questioning Suchart told police that Somkanay had got out of the car and escaped on foot. Police finally caught Somkanay in Chalong at 10:30 am.

“At Chalong Police Station, the men confessed to conspiracy to murder, being in possession of an unlicensed fireman, and carrying a firearm in a public area without a permit,” Col Chokchai added.

The Phuket Gazette

February 26-02-2007

21:42 local time (GMT +7)

[LoveDaBlues]

Some people don't beleive me when I say crime is out of control in Pattaya and Jomtien. I have been in Thailand a long time moved to Jomtien to get away from the crime in Pattaya and now Jomtien is almost as bad. I hope the International press pick up on this so people will know of the dangers that face them by coming here for a holiday. Loosing face is no longer an excuse for Thais or anyone else. I only have 35 days left in Thailand thank God. I will have to stay covert in my condo.

P.S Anyone looking for a condo to rent in Jomtien please PM. me.

Cheers Tony

I have been in Jomtien area since 1999. Yes it is definitely getting violent and ugly. I have moved away now and had need to come into Pattaya in 2nd Road the other night and 2 bar girls and a mamasan dragged me out of my car as I parked it in front of their beer bar. I was actually going across the road. The threw me around a bit and it seemed like there was 6-7 of them within seconds. Not surprisingly the 1,500 baht in my shirt pocket went missing and THEY called the police accusing me as having damaged one of the girl's motorcycles as I parked my car!

No prizes for guessing what happened next eh?? Yep the next day I was compelled to pay for damage on the opposite side of the motorcycle that it should have been if indeed it was parked where they claimed. Oh yeah, that and no corresponding scratch on my car.

Yeah right... this is out of control and I will always always hate Pattaya, and anything to do with it. Sadly Jomtien is infected also now. I hope the Russians report this widely. I hope they stop coming to Pattaya or Jomtien until the police can start stopping these problems rather than being an integral part of it...

Pattaya is the bumho_le of Thailand. Jomtien is the armpits of Thailand. Pathetic places. Tragic about the girls.

The sad truth is this: until the tourists stop coming to these shiteholes.........nothing will change.

20+ golf courses is one reason to visit. Plenty of others I can think off from the top of my head. I never spent an uninteresting or bad day in or around Pattaya.

So, might I suggest that you take your disaffected attitude and self righteousness somewhere else. If you want to know about "shiteholes" I will gladly direct you to some. Pattaya, has it's faults, some of which have and are being addressed. There are IMHO plenty of alternatives in Thailand, some better, some worse, for vacations and for residence - this is a personal, relative judgement. Either way, I still visit Pattaya every time I am in LOS.

Your bombastic value judgements serve no useful purpose. Your fundamental Christian viewpoint also shows and is also irrelevant in this thread - if anywhere.

Now, as for the Russian presence - another issue. Having spent a year in Moscow, and plenty of time in Pattaya, I allow myself to make some observatios.

• Fact: There are plenty of Russians who have the financial capital, and opportunity to take vacations to tropical places.
  
• Fact: Just like the Chinese, English, Irish, German, Japanese ... the Russians would like a Russian restaurant or two in the vicinity, as well as some Russian speaking locals. Not all Russians speak English! Just one more ethnic food to the colourful mix in Pattaya
  
• Fact: Rssian tour operators and other businessmen move in to fill the need.
  
• Fact: The increase in Russian tourists increases the number of resident Russians to meet the language and cultural needs.
  
• Supposition: Organised crime sees a growing market and moves in, build lavish, expensively fitted restaurants etc. as laundries. Legitimate business is identifiable from this style of establishment for the trained eye.
  
• Prediction: The local"crime syndicates" see this as a threat and "turf wars" result.
  

Now, this scenario has played out countless times all over the world. It is playing out in Pattaya now. The only issue is who will win - which group will turn out to be the most brutal, and how many people will die in the crossfire.

In Europe, the eastern europeans are by far the most brutal, and appear to win everywhere, except perhaps Italy.

In Asia, I am not certain that the local forces are without the ability to defend themselves, and they have cultural position and "the law" on their side.

I have left out the issue of Russian prostitutes, since I do not understand their market in Thailand. There would historically appear to be a clear link to organised crime and prostitution, so it is probably in the mix. Protection rackets etc. The two deaths that started this thread may be related.

No matter what, this tragic event may have some repercussions for Pattaya and Thailand's tourist industry - though the list of dead tourists keeps growing, and the number of tourists keeps increasing - so I could be wrong there.

If these two girls were indeed tourists, shot by a chair operator (which I think reasonably unlikely, but clearly with a probability greater than zero) then I will be personally surprised.

Dr. Dweeb.

Don't quit yer day job Dr. Dweeb......you have failed as a detective........I'm agnostic.

As far as Pattay being a shiit_hole.....compared with the rest of Thailand.......it clearly is for anyone with an open mind. Of course there are many, many worse places in the world. But this is a Thailand forum and the reference point is Thailand.....not the world.

Many murders take place in Pattaya/Jomtien area......the crown jewels of this lovely country.

Declared agnostocism is independent of the moral code to which you subscribe. You would be surprised how many "declared agnostics" have quite conservative christian religious viewpoints and are blissfully unaware of the connection, or why. In any case, read my subsequent post.

I may have misread my own post, but I do not believe I referenced the world. Please read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote.

There are many murders in Thailand, generally. There are other threads on this subject. I am not aware that Pattaya/Jomtien is specifically worse in this regard generally, or specifically with respect to falang victims. Anyone who has any fact is welcome to chime in.

Blah Blah Blah Religion Christians Agnostics Conservatives Politicians... I don't like Christians or Conservatives... Agnostics are undercover Christians...Blah Blah Blah

Excuse me, but don't you think you might be a tad off-topic here? Were talking about the brutal murder of two young beautiful Russian girls, in case you didn't notice.

Wow. I said "tragic about the girls" and another poster said "thank God" and DrDweeb goes on a long-winded prattle about his dislike/hatred of christians and conservatives. Since there is a lot of speculation on this thread I can only speculate that by "going overboard" on his posts that as a child DrDweeb must have been sodomized by a priest. He continues to post off-topic and rail against christians/conservatives in a most disturbing and overblown manner.

I don't subscribe to any religion but DrDweeb seems insistent to pigeon-hole me into one. My last post on this thread as it has run it's course and continued posting (like this one) off topic is not desired on TV. LDB.

[stiggy]

Very very disturbing and sad for Thailand....

as for the russian girls...RIP

Follow this link for update at cdnn.info

http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t070226.html

[Prakanong]

Very very disturbing and sad for Thailand....

as for the russian girls...RIP

Follow this link for update at cdnn.info

http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t070226.html

From the article

"Despite multi-million dollar advertising campaigns aimed at promoting Thailand as Asia's most attractive holiday destination, violent attacks against foreigners have increased sharply in Pattaya, Phuket and other popular resort areas throughout Thailand."

If its widely reported like this around the world it's not good for the tourist industry and the many ordinary law abiding Thai's who earn their living from it which would be a great pity.

If you also read their "Related Stories" while certainly sensationalist does not add to Thailands image.

I also expect it from the shitty Thai press both Thai langiage and English but the pictures of the dead girls all over must also be traumatic for their friends and families.

Edited February 27, 2007 by Prakanong

[Prakanong]

The "Justification" of showing the pics from one Thai News Editor

I particularly like the bit, "We have more gruesome pictures but went as far as we dared"

Really - I just hope these low life excuses for the profession of journalism never have pictures of their loved ones splashed all over the world in a similar state and if they do I hope there is not one word of complaint

"OUR RATIONALE FOR SHOWING CANDID PHOTOS OF SLAIN RUSSIAN FEMALE TOURISTS:

We at Pattaya Daily News have recently been criticized for daring to tell the truth about the recent gunning down of two Russian tourists on Jomtien Beach. Commentators from all over the world have slated us for showing photos which are too blatant, but in our defence we have to say that, in our opinion, this is the only way that the Powers That Be will be shamed into doing something positive about the currently high rate of crime in Pattaya, especially as regards tourists, who all too often are seen as easy targets.

This year, Russians have figured prominently among tourist victims. This is largely because few other nationalities are coming here in post coup-Thailand. After a previous case of assault on Russian tourists, the authorities promised to bring in reinforcements from the Thai marines and other local police forces to patrol the beaches, especially, yet to our knowledge this has just been empty posturing. There has been no apparent bolstering of the security forces.

It is partially because we wish the world to know how bad the state of affairs is here in Pattaya. We should also say that we are not alone is displaying lurid photographs of slayings, gruesome road accidents etc., all the Thai newspapers do it as a matter of course. Yet, it is because we have a global reach that our online newspaper has been accessed by all and sundry all over the world, (not least from Russia) and the case has roused such controversy!

It is also significant that all the photos of the two victims were taken by our staff photographers in the presence of the local police, who raised no objection to us so doing. We actually have far more gruesome photos which we chose not to publicise. We went as far as we dared.

We will rest our case at this point. No doubt further controversy will be aroused, but we wish to reiterate that the prime reason for showing these candid pictures was to persuade the authorities to get their act together, put their promises into action and actually do something positive to make Thailand a safe destination for tourists and residents alike.

Warina Punyawan

The Editor

Email: [email protected]"

[Thehedonist]

Very very disturbing and sad for Thailand....

as for the russian girls...RIP

Follow this link for update at cdnn.info

http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t070226.html

Having read all through this sad story, I think the people who run Thai visa should be ashamed of themselves for not silencing all the talk of these poor girls being called to be polite "working girls" on hearsay only. Those posts should have been silenced straight away.

Shame on you, and the idiots that wrote so much crap about them, when people are silenced for lesser things.

My opinion may be worthless to you, and this site can be very infomative, but spoiled by total morons, who have nothing better to do than pull people to pieces or try to get the last word in on every subject.

I will read with interest the outcome of these tragic killings, but stop the slander please !!!

[moskito]

as we all know that MONEY is the only important thing here it is a shame to offer such a small amount of 100,000,-Baht (3000.-USD) for hints on the murderers.

Tourism industrie make millions of baht every day, billions of bath floating every year to the country out of tourism. As sooner they offer more money as sooner they are able to catch these

pricks wich shoot the poor girls.

Higher the amount to a minumum of 500k, a million is even better and some people for sure will talk.

Its the point now where Pattaya and all the other tourist centers in Thailand have to loose much more than some thousand bath...................let us tell to the authorities IT IS ENOUGH ! if u want our money in future you have to do something to make life and hollidays in Thailand more safe please.