Two Russian Women Killed At Jomthien Beach

[Payboy]

Thai police - what a bunch of incompetent, morally bankrupt pricks.

can't expect anything different with their current selection / qualification procedure?

[Pattayaman]

Very very disturbing and sad for Thailand....

as for the russian girls...RIP

Follow this link for update at cdnn.info

http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t070226.html

Having read all through this sad story, I think the people who run Thai visa should be ashamed of themselves for not silencing all the talk of these poor girls being called to be polite "working girls" on hearsay only. Those posts should have been silenced straight away.

Shame on you, and the idiots that wrote so much crap about them, when people are silenced for lesser things.

My opinion may be worthless to you, and this site can be very infomative, but spoiled by total morons, who have nothing better to do than pull people to pieces or try to get the last word in on every subject.

I will read with interest the outcome of these tragic killings, but stop the slander please !!!

I agree with your comment,as you say many threads closed for lesser reasons

[HenryB]

as we all know that MONEY is the only important thing here it is a shame to offer such a small amount of 100,000,-Baht (3000.-USD) for hints on the murderers.

Please think about it 100,000 baht reward says it all.

[Prakanong]

Very very disturbing and sad for Thailand....

as for the russian girls...RIP

Follow this link for update at cdnn.info

http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t070226.html

Having read all through this sad story, I think the people who run Thai visa should be ashamed of themselves for not silencing all the talk of these poor girls being called to be polite "working girls" on hearsay only. Those posts should have been silenced straight away.

Shame on you, and the idiots that wrote so much crap about them, when people are silenced for lesser things.

My opinion may be worthless to you, and this site can be very infomative, but spoiled by total morons, who have nothing better to do than pull people to pieces or try to get the last word in on every subject.

I will read with interest the outcome of these tragic killings, but stop the slander please !!!

I agree with your comment,as you say many threads closed for lesser reasons

I do not think the thread should have been shut down for all its faults as it is of great interest.

A bit more strong moderation as we have seen in other threads to limit wild speculation and the more slanderous aspersions on these girls characters may have helped but we can not discuss moderation issues which I fully understand the reasoning behind

[thaigene2]

I'm glad they showed the photo - Thai Rath did too.

LOOK at it! Not for some sicko reason....but to see how UNLIKELY it is that they were killed there in those beach chairs!

Look at the head gently resting on the other woman's shoulder. Look at the legs in a "comfy" position - like sleeping. It's pure nonesense.

If it wasn't for that photo, we would never have known the most likely scenario that this occured somewhere else and then a staged 5am "shooting" (that no one saw) happened. A picture tells a thousand words folks. Interesting how the police still say they were killed in their beach chairs...Now why is that? And aren't those boots a little like police/army boots?

Never mind the fact the police found five 9mm shells but the girsl were shot TEN times. <deleted>.

[Prakanong]

I'm glad they showed the photo - Thai Rath did too.

LOOK at it! Not for some sicko reason....but to see how UNLIKELY it is that they were killed there in those beach chairs!

Look at the head gently resting on the other woman's shoulder. Look at the legs in a "comfy" position - like sleeping. It's pure nonesense.

If it wasn't for that photo, we would never have known the most likely scenario that this occured somewhere else and then a staged 5am "shooting" (that no one saw) happened. A picture tells a thousand words folks. Interesting how the police still say they were killed in their beach chairs...Now why is that? And aren't those boots a little like police/army boots?

Never mind the fact the police found five 9mm shells but the girsl were shot TEN times. <deleted>.

Its deffo Area 51 material is it not???????

Just who is under that bed?

[slimdog]

Rest in Peace

[thaigene2]

I'm glad they showed the photo - Thai Rath did too.

LOOK at it! Not for some sicko reason....but to see how UNLIKELY it is that they were killed there in those beach chairs!

Look at the head gently resting on the other woman's shoulder. Look at the legs in a "comfy" position - like sleeping. It's pure nonesense.

If it wasn't for that photo, we would never have known the most likely scenario that this occured somewhere else and then a staged 5am "shooting" (that no one saw) happened. A picture tells a thousand words folks. Interesting how the police still say they were killed in their beach chairs...Now why is that? And aren't those boots a little like police/army boots?

Never mind the fact the police found five 9mm shells but the girsl were shot TEN times. <deleted>.

Its deffo Area 51 material is it not???????

Just who is under that bed?

You can take the p+ss as much as you like mate...I don't know who killed them or why - I'm sorry for them and their families. But I would bet you a sizeable sum that they weren't killed in those beach chairs in that spot. Again - look at the photo.

[COBBER]

Just watched the local Thai News where they said that the police are now seeking a male thai tour guide who had accompanied the 2 women to several nightspots on several evenings and has since gone to ground.

[Khun ?]

I'm glad they showed the photo - Thai Rath did too.

LOOK at it! Not for some sicko reason....but to see how UNLIKELY it is that they were killed there in those beach chairs!

Look at the head gently resting on the other woman's shoulder. Look at the legs in a "comfy" position - like sleeping. It's pure nonesense.

If it wasn't for that photo, we would never have known the most likely scenario that this occured somewhere else and then a staged 5am "shooting" (that no one saw) happened. A picture tells a thousand words folks. Interesting how the police still say they were killed in their beach chairs...Now why is that? And aren't those boots a little like police/army boots?

Never mind the fact the police found five 9mm shells but the girsl were shot TEN times. <deleted>.

I guess the witnesses that seen them walk out of their hotel not so long before the murder and them buying

stuff from a store just prior to the murders was also staged. Get a grip and read all the information that is available on this case. Fact is if it is not a shooting then it is robbery and gang beatings on a daily bases in Pattaya. Crime is the norm now days and many times against foreigners who are the life support of the city

known for it's sin.

No longer is it a safe place for travelers unless you are in a group and being foreigner puts you as a good target if you are seperate from a crowd.

[Pakboong]

Regardless of who the victims were or what they did, they surely didn't deserve to be executed as they were.

I can't believe that this topic has just surpassed 600 posts, and most of them are discussing an unfair / unproven labelling of these women.

The people that I feel the most for are the friends, family and public in Russia. The Thaivisa website ranks highly in Google, and anyone who does any kind of search on this subject - russian murders pattaya, Liubov Svirkova, etc - is getting this thread in their first page of results. (Particularily on google.ru).

It must be awful for their families and friends in Russia who are trying to find facts about their loved ones and are getting this thread full of speculation labelling these ladies as sex workers. Gotta be heartbreaking for them.

i agree...

for all the relatives and friends of the late tatiana and livbov who may happen to visit this thread, our condolences to you all... and please forgive us and ignore the pricks who have been writing non-sense in this thread about the two innocent souls.

may they rest in peace...

Well said and I totally agree.

I can just imagine what would be written about my own 27 year old sister if something tragic like this happend on her visit to Thailand - it would be awuful reading I bet

agreed.

I read this site as an English friend of mine is thinking of moving to Thailand and the Jomtien area is one of the areas he was looking at. I have shown him some of your letters on what the Pattaya are is now like and recommended he cross that area off his list.

I have, however, been horrified at some of the so-called 'intelligent' comments made by many writers.

Here were 2 young girls - their nationality is irrelavent - who were on a 2 weeks holiday in Thailand who were shot dead on the beach.

To my knowledge:-

There is NO evidence that they wished to overstay (unlike many farange men here).

There is NO evidence that they were involved in any illegal activity.

So until any evidence to the contrary, they were here to enjoy a holiday.

They may have enjoyed a drink or 2 but don't most of us when on holiday.

They may have had a holiday romance. So what. I don't know and it is NONE of my business.

I beleive in "People are innocent UNTIL proven guilty".

I am delighted that all through there are a few people who stand up and regret the tragic death of the 2 girls rather than use it as an excuse for writing inane and stupid comments.

Any experienced homicide detective will tell you that the murder of random innocents is extremely rare.

[Prakanong]

Just watched the local Thai News where they said that the police are now seeking a male thai tour guide who had accompanied the 2 women to several nightspots on several evenings and has since gone to ground.

Well if it is him I hope they catch him but tour guides come up as suspects an awful lot in Thai murder cases of foreigners then found not to have anything to do with it

Two are mentioned above - Kirsty Jones in Chiang Mai and the Oz couple just outside Chiang Mai

[Prakanong]

I'm glad they showed the photo - Thai Rath did too.

LOOK at it! Not for some sicko reason....but to see how UNLIKELY it is that they were killed there in those beach chairs!

Look at the head gently resting on the other woman's shoulder. Look at the legs in a "comfy" position - like sleeping. It's pure nonesense.

If it wasn't for that photo, we would never have known the most likely scenario that this occured somewhere else and then a staged 5am "shooting" (that no one saw) happened. A picture tells a thousand words folks. Interesting how the police still say they were killed in their beach chairs...Now why is that? And aren't those boots a little like police/army boots?

Never mind the fact the police found five 9mm shells but the girsl were shot TEN times. <deleted>.

Its deffo Area 51 material is it not???????

Just who is under that bed?

You can take the p+ss as much as you like mate...I don't know who killed them or why - I'm sorry for them and their families. But I would bet you a sizeable sum that they weren't killed in those beach chairs in that spot. Again - look at the photo.

So the shop staff and the security guard are all in this and they have faked the CCTV pictures too?

Come on get real - can you not accept nothing at face value?

They may not have been in the exact positions photgraphed either with police etc moving them around - there are pics in a number of positions are there not

[Jingthing]

Just watched the local Thai News where they said that the police are now seeking a male thai tour guide who had accompanied the 2 women to several nightspots on several evenings and has since gone to ground.

Whatever could his motivation possibly be? Bad tippers? Rejected him sexually? Thanks to the poster who posted the sweet picture during happier times. While this crime clearly has massive lurid appeal and it is now very mysterious, it is but one crime among many. It just has that special juice that the press and the masses eat up. Maybe some good can come from this tragedy, but I don't see it yet. Also, I don't care if they were whores or nuns, this crime must be solved.

I must admit I don't have the heart to visit Jomtien beach right away. How many other local people are avoiding it for now?

Edited February 27, 2007 by Jingthing

[Tornado]

from a link on this thread.

THAILAND - Murder in Thailand: another tourist shot dead

http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t061227.html

THAILAND - Men who raped, killed British tourist escape death

http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t061125.html

THAILAND - Another tourist raped at Thailand resort island

http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t060119.html

THAILAND - Increasing violence against tourists threatens tourism industry

http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t060118a.html

[moskito]

Thai police - what a bunch of incompetent, morally bankrupt pricks.

can't expect anything different with their current selection / qualification procedure?

@ Briggsy

I do not agree. Read the article I posted here before from Phuket Gazette rregarding the shooting here yesterday. Police catched ALL 4 shooters in not more time than 3 hours. This shows us THEY ARE GREAT at their jobs as long as there is no coruption or anything else involved.

Thai Police can work phantastic.......if they want too

[Pakboong]

From what world murder statistics available on the web that I could find with both Thailand and Russia listed, you are at least twice as likely to be murdered in Russia as you are in Thailand.

[womble]

Thai police - what a bunch of incompetent, morally bankrupt pricks.

can't expect anything different with their current selection / qualification procedure?

@ Briggsy

I do not agree. Read the article I posted here before from Phuket Gazette rregarding the shooting here yesterday. Police catched ALL 4 shooters in not more time than 3 hours. This shows us THEY ARE GREAT at their jobs as long as there is no coruption or anything else involved.

Thai Police can work phantastic.......if they want too

Sorry don't agree, they frequently ruin crime scenes and mess up cases due to lack of training and knowledge, they are certainly far from being fantastic. I have had satisfactory dealings with them, but by and large they are not what could be discribed as one of the worlds better police forces.

[bangkokrick]

Having read the entire thread i tend to go with the murdered elsewhere theory. They were shot 10 times and to my knowledge hand guns only hold 6 shots. Did the gunman reload?

My sympathy goes out to the families of the two girls. This is not only a tradgedy for them but also for Thailand. RIP.

[Khun ?]

Having read the entire thread i tend to go with the murdered elsewhere theory. They were shot 10 times and to my knowledge hand guns only hold 6 shots. Did the gunman reload?

My sympathy goes out to the families of the two girls. This is not only a tradgedy for them but also for Thailand. RIP.

This is the first report that states 10 shots fired. The others state from 4 to 6 shots I believe.

One girl was reported to be shot 4 times and the other girl depending the report 1 or 2 times.

Security guard that heard it I think said 4 or 5 shots he heard fired.

[sonnyJ]

Having read the entire thread i tend to go with the murdered elsewhere theory. They were shot 10 times and to my knowledge hand guns only hold 6 shots. Did the gunman reload?

My sympathy goes out to the families of the two girls. This is not only a tradgedy for them but also for Thailand. RIP.

9mm is an automatic pistol with a clip. Usually holds between 10-15 bullets.

I would believe in number 10 as much as 4 or 6 before. Seems to be different every day.

Also all the other new information is building this to be a real mess. I would expect a miracle arrest soon, including some completely new motive.

[moskito]

Having read the entire thread i tend to go with the murdered elsewhere theory. They were shot 10 times and to my knowledge hand guns only hold 6 shots. Did the gunman reload?

My sympathy goes out to the families of the two girls. This is not only a tradgedy for them but also for Thailand. RIP.

That was back in good old wild west times

I read something about 10shots too, too much for a professional shooter it seems. On the pictures was a police guy with a metal detector but why they found only 5 cartridges??

Tour guide heads murder suspects in Pattaya Russian slaying investigation

A tour guide would now appear to be the latest suspect in the prominent ongoing murder investigation into the death of the two Russian female tourists according to the Commissioner of the Provincial Police Bureau 2, Police Lieutenant General Assawin Kwanmuang.

The case has for once roused the local authorities to action; like never before. And with good reason as Pattaya’s reputation becomes more infamous by the moment. However, there is still no auxiliary support from the Thai Marines and neighbouring police forces as was promised after the previous assault on Russian tourists in Pattaya.

Both the Thai Tourist Authority and the local police are collaborating at the highest level to solve the murder Details ...

click for more detailed informations

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.p...NEWS=0000002492

[bangkokrick]

Knowing nothing about hand guns i just did a google search on 9mm weapons and it came up with this story. There are a few similarities.

A body found slumped in a Moscow lift. A discarded pistol and four spent shells. A mysterious thin man in a black baseball cap. The murder yesterday of Anna Politkovskaya, the most famous reporter in Russia, is a story as sinister as anything she investigated in her fearless, award-winning career.

The gun found near her apartment block in central Moscow was a 9mm Makarov, known as the weapon of choice for Russian hitmen. Police said they were searching for a man in his twenties dressed in a black cap, seen just before neighbours discovered her body in the lift.

Rick

[farangene]

I'm glad they showed the photo - Thai Rath did too.

LOOK at it! Not for some sicko reason....but to see how UNLIKELY it is that they were killed there in those beach chairs!

Look at the head gently resting on the other woman's shoulder. Look at the legs in a "comfy" position - like sleeping. It's pure nonesense.

If it wasn't for that photo, we would never have known the most likely scenario that this occured somewhere else and then a staged 5am "shooting" (that no one saw) happened. A picture tells a thousand words folks. Interesting how the police still say they were killed in their beach chairs...Now why is that? And aren't those boots a little like police/army boots?

Never mind the fact the police found five 9mm shells but the girsl were shot TEN times. <deleted>.

Its deffo Area 51 material is it not???????

Just who is under that bed?

You can take the p+ss as much as you like mate...I don't know who killed them or why - I'm sorry for them and their families. But I would bet you a sizeable sum that they weren't killed in those beach chairs in that spot. Again - look at the photo.

So the shop staff and the security guard are all in this and they have faked the CCTV pictures too?

Come on get real - can you not accept nothing at face value?

They may not have been in the exact positions photgraphed either with police etc moving them around - there are pics in a number of positions are there not

It is also possible (based on time of day/night and the strong possibility that they had been drinking) that they might have been sleeping or napping while waiting for the sun to rise.

The pix might not be posed but could reflect what happened.

If the shooting occurred suddenly, the comfortable posing as they slept could be the reason that neither seemed to attempt to get out of the chair to run or at least defend themselves from the shooter as I would have suspected??

[britmaveric]

Further developments in the Russian Double Murder case.

We continue to closely follow the recent murder of two Russian Tourists on Jomtien Beach over the

weekend and our journalists are stationed at a Command Center which has been set up at the Anantaya Resort in Soi 18, off Jomtien Beach, just meters away from the scene of the crime. This major murder investigation now includes Police Officers from various Police Divisions, local Government Officials, Tourism Authority of Thailand Officials and Russian Embassy personnel are also assisting in the investigation. We will now attempt to clarify the current position with regards to this investigation and give you the facts. We will also attempt to clarify inconsistent reporting of the case in the international media.

We begin with the two victims, Miss Tatiana Tsimfer aged 30 and Miss Liubov Svirkova aged 25. Police Lieutenant General Asawin, the Region 2 Commander of Police who is in charge of the investigation has received considerable assistance from the Russian Embassy in Bangkok who has assigned Mr. Vladimia Viprovin, the Russian Consul in Pattaya as their representative at the Command Center. He has provided Police with a full profile of each victim as the search for possible motives for the killings continues. Mr. Viprovin has confirmed that the pair came from affluent families in Russia and both were in employment. Any suggestions that they were involved in prostitution here in Thailand have been discounted.

Furthermore he confirmed that they entered Thailand on a Charter Flight which flew into Utapao Airport on 16th February. Flight number SBI 849 consisted of 201 passengers and 12 cabin crew. Police are now tracking down each passenger and cabin crew and they will be questioned individually. Police are also searching for an unlicensed Tour Guide who the pair was believed to have employed to take them to various local Tourist attractions during their stay here in Pattaya. This man disappeared after the shooting and has not been seen by other members of the Russian tour group that accompanied the victims.

Further inspections of the CCTV pictures have taken place as Police try and build a profile of the suspected shooter. They have brought in Khun Somart, a self-proclaimed motorbike expert who was asked to identify the model and color of the motorbike used by the suspect. After intense examination of the footage he cannot be certain but believes the bike used was a red Honda Wave, but Khun Somart is now waiting for a colleague to come and verify his findings.

On Tuesday afternoon at Pattaya City Hall, Police Colonel Sutin and Khun Ronagit, Deputy Mayor of Pattaya, called a meeting of every motorbike taxi driver in the Pattaya area as he begins a city-wide inspection of motorbikes. They also urged motorbike taxi drivers to assist in the investigation any way they can. The Colonel is aware that Russian single women who come to Pattaya will often use motorbike taxis. They would like the drivers to question their customers whenever they can as they may have either known the victims or might be able to offer clues as to the identity of the shooter.

Despite the efforts of the authorities so far, the identity of the shooter is still not known but Police believe he was a tall man, around 180cms in height and of Thai origin, however they have not discounted the theory that the man may be of foreign origin.

As we compiled this report and despite one of the most intense murder investigations ever seen here in Pattaya, the fact remains that no arrests have been made in this case. Pressure from senior Police and government officials is intense as they look to close this case as quickly as possible to prevent further damage to the already fragile Tourism Industry here in Thailand. Dr. Suwit, the Minister for Sports and Tourism has called on the Tourist Police to arrest the shooter, and Police Major General Panya, the National Commander of Tourist Police is now in Pattaya and has joined the investigation. It has been reported in the National Press that Police General Seripisut, the Acting National Police Chief, believes that foreign gangs may be involved in this double-murder and unless the killer is caught and foreign gang activity in Pattaya stops, Pattaya Police Officers will be disciplined and possibly reassigned. Khun Chaiwat from the Tourism Authority of Thailand has told the investigating team that unless this case is brought to a swift conclusion, Tourism will be affected.

So now we wait, but for now, the harsh reality of this case is that the shooter remains at large. We have journalists stationed 24 hours a day at the Command Center and we will bring you any further news as soon as we receive it.

-Pattaya City News

Tuesday 27th February 2007

[HenryLongfellow]

they look to close this case as quickly as possible to prevent further damage to the already fragile Tourism Industry here in Thailand.

They don't give a toss about solving the crime to put a criminal away. They only don't want to miss out on further tourist $$$$.

[bulmercke]

they look to close this case as quickly as possible to prevent further damage to the already fragile Tourism Industry here in Thailand.

They don't give a toss about solving the crime to put a criminal away. They only don't want to miss out on further tourist $$$$.

You got it!

It's also quite possible that the gunman was a non-Thai - possibly a Cambodian - in which case - he has probably gone to ground if he's a professional gunman.

The police are now faced with a real dilemma if they want to genuinely solve this shoching case. Either lean heavily on the real suspects involved in this case OR go for an innocent patsy with some tenuous or not so tenuous connection with the girls - like the supposed tour guide or the deck chair attendant or any number of Thai males who may have crossed the girls paths in the days and hours leading up to their summary executions.

If there is indeed a re-enactment of the crime - and there surely will be - watch and monitor closely the behaviour and demeanour of the alleged assailant.

Does he look as guilty as hel_l and quite capable of having perpetrated these heinous crimes or perhaps, more likely, totally bewildered and traumatised by the sudden unexpected events that have befallen this poor innocent fellow - the patsy!

One thing's for sure - this ain't goin' be no ordinary murder case!

Also a previous poster mentioned ( a very good point indeed) that the girls could have been dozing when they were shot which would account for their postures and the relative calm of the scene - no apparent attempt by either of the girls to flee the assailant or turn their bodies away from the impending threat to their lives - the barrel of a gun - just a thought.

I wonder if the BIB have thought of this.

Also, if this case was a professional hit, which by all accounts it appears to have been, then the lengths the gunman and his accomplices would have gone to avoid detection and arrest subsequently would surely match the expertise of the hit.

Edited February 27, 2007 by bulmercke

[libya 115]

The Pattaya Daily News has a free-for-all comments page.

The latest viewpoint is linked below: (scroll down to bottom of linked page): Fred is well known to many Pattaya bar dwellers.

latest view from Fred:

[Couthy]

The Pattaya Daily News has a free-for-all comments page.

The latest viewpoint is linked below: (scroll down to bottom of linked page): Fred is well known to many Pattaya bar dwellers.

latest view from Fred:

Right Said Fred : My lot this evening were having a natter about it. Seems that Fred got it right.

Five ladies arrived on the same flight, tickets paid for, and these two ladies were not about to start paying the ticket money back by means of prostitution.

Hence...............

Happens everywhere doesn't it - was it in Oz where the girls were fed to a croc a couple of years ago?.

Sometimes, one wonders about the human race and the cruelty we can inflict for monetary reasons.

What we term as animals don't do that.

[ollyrosee]

the boot prints in the sand were very clear so id of the boots would be easy ? a thai made and used boot or farang boot? and did they check for bullets in the sand with a detector ? CSI would have cordoned off the area looking for hairs and skin flakes for DNA .