Pollution may be a game changer...

[mikey88]

All bets are off now sadly.

I’ll wait and see....but....if you don’t have your health what’s the point of retiring here.

I’m starting the conversation with my apartment building owner.

Just so she’s knows it’s an issue that probably is going to hurt her business.

 

 

[cmsally]

Maybe someone more experienced with aerodynamics can explain this but I have a hunch that the stagnant Ping River is affecting the flow of air through the city. Sitting by the river having lunch the other day it was noticeable how stagnant the river was and how absent the air flow was. In the past (before the check dam was built) I could swear there was more of a breeze by the river in the hot season.

Just an observation, but maybe someone can put forward a theory / equation which might mean there is some truth in it. ???

[kuma]

Have to say I agree.

Was away in Europe for 5 months in 2017, first extended time outside of Thailand in over a decade.

Not only did we find the air refreshing, we arrived back to Bkk about Jan 12 2018, this time last year, and if you recall the air was horrible then - not sure if this is worse or not, but about the same anyway.

Looking at the map (link https://www.airvisual.com/earth):

Depending on your current life expectancy, I would suspect the purple/red you see now is not going to change in a fundamental way in the next 10 - 20 years (actually it will likely change in that it will get worse) and one has to plan on either finding a way to live with that, or as mentioned, get to another place.

I am looking at options for sure, dont really envision spending my final decades choking on this mess, decades that will get cut short if having to deal with this every year....

[cheeryble]

Grandma's 90.

She works vigorously in the garden every day does her own laundry and cooking etc etc

We had to stop her climbing trees.

Not only has she lived a lifetime here smoke and all, she used to smoke those big home made ciggies.

[canthai55]

One country can do nothing by itself. It needs a global combined effort.

Happen in my lifetime ? NO. In my childrens ? NO

In their children ? What children !!!

[elektrified]

I was out for a while earlier today and the air had a chemical/smoke-like stench to it that made me feel a little nauseous. I can't recall the air being this bad in January since I have been here.

 

I decided it was time to stock-up on some N95 masks. So I went out looking to buy some. Sold out everywhere!

 

Bangkok schools closed yesterday at noon. Students were told not to return until next week. The air was too dangerous.

[kuma]

24 minutes ago, elektrified said:

I was out for a while earlier today and the air had a chemical/smoke-like stench to it that made me feel a little nauseous. I can't recall the air being this bad in January since I have been here.

 

I decided it was time to stock-up on some N95 masks. So I went out looking to buy some. Sold out everywhere!

 

Bangkok schools closed yesterday at noon. Students were told not to return until next week. The air was too dangerous.

Had a plan to go to Bkk in the next few days, but now planning to get around that and find another way to get the errands done - or put things off for a few weeks, have come as far as Chonburi now and even the air here is poor, but not as bad. See how things are in the next few days.

[amexpat]

3 hours ago, cheeryble said:

Grandma's 90.

She works vigorously in the garden every day does her own laundry and cooking etc etc

We had to stop her climbing trees.

Not only has she lived a lifetime here smoke and all, she used to smoke those big home made ciggies.

 

Well that goes to show........what? 

[cmsally]

90 yrs ago - 50 yrs ago - 30 yrs ago... the air was not so polluted. It will take another generation to discover the effects.

[FolkGuitar]

I'm on the west side of the city, a few blocks past Kad Suen Kaew. I remember many times in previous years when I couldn't see those few blocks... couldn't even see Kad Suen Kaew. These days I can see far across the city, certainly well past the Superhighway directly east across the Old City. The condos around Central Festival Mall are clear enough to see their windows. This is NOT what I would call 'really poor air quality' in comparison to other years. Quite good, in fact.

[kuma]

1 minute ago, FolkGuitar said:

I'm on the west side of the city, a few blocks past Kad Suen Kaew. I remember many times in previous years when I couldn't see those few blocks... couldn't even see Kad Suen Kaew. These days I can see far across the city, certainly well past the Superhighway directly east across the Old City. The condos around Central Festival Mall are clear enough to see their windows. This is NOT what I would call 'really poor air quality' in comparison to other years. Quite good, in fact.

That's quite an interesting observation. Not sure exactly where that is but perhaps that region is benefiting from ....public transit extension? More urbanization (counter intuitive, but perhaps less farm burn off drifting in than before?) Prevailing winds at this particular time? Other? Of all the time I have been here (14+ years) this is as hazy as I have seen it....but suppose Amphur by Amphur will differ.

[puukao]

They can make massive changes in decades, but, like China, you get unintended consequences (I forget, something about ozone).  It hasn't hurt business for decades and probably won't for years and years.  Only maybe repeat business.  Maybe less farangs, yes, but like i said before....mostly sex pats come here, and they don't care about bad lungs.  all those people with body tattoos, they don't care.  chinese and koreans don't care.  people with zero money don't care.  if you have a brain, of course you don't retire here.  if it's because of money, CM isn't the cheapest in Thailand. go somewhere with better air.  of course it's about money.   

[amexpat]

49 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

I'm on the west side of the city, a few blocks past Kad Suen Kaew. I remember many times in previous years when I couldn't see those few blocks... couldn't even see Kad Suen Kaew. These days I can see far across the city, certainly well past the Superhighway directly east across the Old City. The condos around Central Festival Mall are clear enough to see their windows. This is NOT what I would call 'really poor air quality' in comparison to other years. Quite good, in fact.

Stay tuned.  This is January. 

[eyecatcher]

2 hours ago, amexpat said:

 

Well that goes to show........what? 

It goes to show that if you work hard physically every day, that your lung capacity increases, your heart becomes stronger and healthier and.......you actually dont even notice what the sedentary and stagnant city bods are often complaining about, because it doesnt affect you

[FolkGuitar]

14 hours ago, amexpat said:

Stay tuned.  This is January. 

 

Yes... It certainly is a bit early. I have no doubt it will get worse. But... will it get as bad a earlier years? The Small Particle index certainly will. Of that I have no doubt. That has been rising steadily for the past several years. But the visual index does seem to be reducing. Not really sure where that leaves us, health-wise, but at least my mental attitude benefits.

[orang37]

Sawdusty Cupcakes, fellow primates,

 

Through the haze of memory, this last month, here, seems very good in terms of AQ compared to other years, and consistently colder for a late January.

 

Last night, as usual, I was struck by the tangible difference in temperature and air "texture" coming by bicycle from the Night Bazaar area: going down the east river road headed south ... at the point I turn left on Ratuthit, and get near the Gymkhana Club.

 

I notice this difference even in daylight hours when there is strong sun and temps of 85+F.

 

Could it be the expectation of getting back to my little nest that fluffs my feathers so enjoyably may activate the olfactory and gustatory systems of Orang me, and that the pleasant frisson the human me experiences is yet another reflection of his longing for the sweet air of his long-lost home in the luxuriant forests of Kalimantan ?

 

~o:37;

 

[jmd8800]

When the west de-industrialized, pollution was shifted to Asia where those countries increased industrial output. The west would like to claim they 'cleaned things up' (and they did with car emissions etc) but they just dumped it on someone else and kept the prices low for western consumers. Things won't get better until we get rid of consumerism and / or switch to renewable energy.

 

There is a whole lot more to the pollution story than this ... Thailand and its plastic bag problem being one.

[canthai55]

They can make massive changes in decades, but, like China, you get unintended consequences (I forget, something about ozone).  It hasn't hurt business for decades and probably won't for years and years.  Only maybe repeat business.  Maybe less farangs, yes, but like i said before....mostly sex pats come here, and they don't care about bad lungs.  all those people with body tattoos, they don't care.  chinese and koreans don't care.  people with zero money don't care.  if you have a brain, of course you don't retire here.  if it's because of money, CM isn't the cheapest in Thailand. go somewhere with better air.  of course it's about money.   

Tattoos make a difference ? 555


Sent from my Nexus 10 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Berkshire]

On 1/31/2019 at 11:47 AM, kuma said:

Looking at the map (link https://www.airvisual.com/earth):

Cool map.  Does it change much day-to-day?  It would appear that places to avoid are east China, India, Middle East, and North Africa.  I have no problem with that.

[orang37]

7 hours ago, Berkshire said:

Does it change much day-to-day?  It would appear that places to avoid are east China, India, Middle East, and North Africa.

The world is born more times than we know, even if the maps change slowly.

 

Consider adding Bangkok to your "avoid" list ?

 

cheers, ~o:37;

 

 

[orang37]

On 1/31/2019 at 5:24 PM, puukao said:

mostly sex pats come here, and they don't care about bad lungs.  all those people with body tattoos, they don't care.  chinese and koreans don't care.  people with zero money don't care.  if you have a brain, of course you don't retire here.

I knew I was in the right place !

 

~o:37;

[FolkGuitar]

On 1/31/2019 at 5:24 PM, puukao said:

....mostly sex pats come here, and they don't care about bad lungs.  all those people with body tattoos, they don't care.  chinese and koreans don't care.  people with zero money don't care.  if you have a brain, of course you don't retire here.

 

Hmmm... I've been reading and re-reading this, and I just have to ask... With all this in mind, why are YOU here?

 

[lordblackader]

The only thing worse than burning season - which it isn't yet, the smoke isn't that bad, is the incessant whining of Johnny come latelys about it. 

 

You want bad- go back to 2015 when the airport had to close and the PM 2.5 was nearly 700 PM 2.5. 

[dcnx]

On 1/31/2019 at 4:45 PM, FolkGuitar said:

I'm on the west side of the city, a few blocks past Kad Suen Kaew. I remember many times in previous years when I couldn't see those few blocks... couldn't even see Kad Suen Kaew. These days I can see far across the city, certainly well past the Superhighway directly east across the Old City. The condos around Central Festival Mall are clear enough to see their windows. This is NOT what I would call 'really poor air quality' in comparison to other years. Quite good, in fact.

Yet Chiang Mai has very unhealthy air at the moment. Worse than Bangkok. 

 

A clear sky and visibility doesn’t necessarily mean the air is clean. It’s not. Far from it. The harmful particles, especially PM 2.5 is incredibly small. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by dcnx

[FolkGuitar]

8 hours ago, dcnx said:

Yet Chiang Mai has very unhealthy air at the moment. Worse than Bangkok.

A clear sky and visibility doesn’t necessarily mean the air is clean. It’s not. Far from it. The harmful particles, especially PM 2.5 is incredibly small. 

 

Yes... That why I stated in my previous post; " The Small Particle index certainly will (rise) . Of that I have no doubt. That has been rising steadily for the past several years. But the visual index does seem to be reducing.

 

Frankly, I'm much happier to see more sky rather than less. While it may not be healthy, at least I can still appreciate the views of Doi Suthep. I remember years when I couldn't see the Niman intersection.

[tlandtday]

On 2/1/2019 at 8:46 AM, jmd8800 said:

When the west de-industrialized, pollution was shifted to Asia where those countries increased industrial output. The west would like to claim they 'cleaned things up' (and they did with car emissions etc) but they just dumped it on someone else and kept the prices low for western consumers. Things won't get better until we get rid of consumerism and / or switch to renewable energy.

 

There is a whole lot more to the pollution story than this ... Thailand and its plastic bag problem being one.

And you can bet China will clean up their backyard by expanding in this one. 

[Trujillo]

"... noticeable how stagnant the river was ..."

 

The river is flowing as fast as it ever does, just you can't see it from the surface. Go look at a pillar under a bridge and you'll see it's going along at a fair clip. 

 

To be honest, I have been here in CM for the past six years continually (a few on and off before), and the air never bothers me at all. If I didn't read about it or have people complain about it, I would have no idea that the air is supposed to be bad for you. I'm not saying it is good air, but I bet there are lots of people who don't suffer at all. 

There are weak people, like the OP, who must have fragile constitutions and can't take the pollution. But I have never seen anyone drop from the air here. 

[tlandtday]

1 minute ago, Trujillo said:

"... noticeable how stagnant the river was ..."

 

The river is flowing as fast as it ever does, just you can't see it from the surface. Go look at a pillar under a bridge and you'll see it's going along at a fair clip. 

 

To be honest, I have been here in CM for the past six years continually (a few on and off before), and the air never bothers me at all. If I didn't read about it or have people complain about it, I would have no idea that the air is supposed to be bad for you. I'm not saying it is good air, but I bet there are lots of people who don't suffer at all. 

There are weak people, like the OP, who must have fragile constitutions and can't take the pollution. But I have never seen anyone drop from the air here. 

Pollution is generally a silent killer much like cigarette smoking it takes time.  Glad to see you are immune to many forms of cancer and other ails caused by pollutants you must be a super hero.

[mrmillersr]

4 hours ago, Trujillo said:

"... noticeable how stagnant the river was ..."

 

The river is flowing as fast as it ever does, just you can't see it from the surface. Go look at a pillar under a bridge and you'll see it's going along at a fair clip. 

 

To be honest, I have been here in CM for the past six years continually (a few on and off before), and the air never bothers me at all. If I didn't read about it or have people complain about it, I would have no idea that the air is supposed to be bad for you. I'm not saying it is good air, but I bet there are lots of people who don't suffer at all. 

There are weak people, like the OP, who must have fragile constitutions and can't take the pollution. But I have never seen anyone drop from the air here. 

What an idiotic statement.  Hey I've known people who were chain smokers and never got lung cancer so I guess it is alright to smoke like a chimney if you want. 

 

And saying there are "weak people" with "fragile constitutions" is as lame as it gets.  Everyone is affected in one way or another with the pollution you get in CM but I guess since you don't see anyone dropping from the air it's no problem at least for you.

 

I got out of CM some time ago and have tried my best to get friends and anyone else concerned with their health and their family's health to rethink the situation.  Honestly, for even those than can relocate most won't - not until a serious medical condition hits and then it will be too late. 

 

So stop listening to the ignorant "it's not a problem" posters and seriously think how important your health is since it is the most valuable asset you will ever have and the one no one can afford to lose.
 

[Yellowtail]

6 hours ago, mrmillersr said:

What an idiotic statement.  Hey I've known people who were chain smokers and never got lung cancer so I guess it is alright to smoke like a chimney if you want. 

 

And saying there are "weak people" with "fragile constitutions" is as lame as it gets.  Everyone is affected in one way or another with the pollution you get in CM but I guess since you don't see anyone dropping from the air it's no problem at least for you.

 

I got out of CM some time ago and have tried my best to get friends and anyone else concerned with their health and their family's health to rethink the situation.  Honestly, for even those than can relocate most won't - not until a serious medical condition hits and then it will be too late. 

 

So stop listening to the ignorant "it's not a problem" posters and seriously think how important your health is since it is the most valuable asset you will ever have and the one no one can afford to lose.
 

 

So how will worrying about it benefit you?

 

As I understand it, stress is a major killer as well.