BREAKING NEWS Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted

[David Walden]

13 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Wrong Roy,Oz never vetted anything.

If you buy a sheep farm in Australia and the sale contract say it includes 10,000 sheep you don't have to go out and count the sheep.  You get the vendor to sign a stat dec to say under oath that there are 10,000 sheep out in the paddock.  It is enough that the vendor gets a JP to sign the Stat dec witnessing he signed that there 10,000 sheep out in the paddock.  The JP doesn't go out with 6 sheepdogs and run around all and count the sheep.  He just signs the stat dec attesting that you declared there are 10,000 shep out there.  Be very careful if it turns out that there are only 8,000 sheep out in the paddock and the vendor made a sworn declaration which is wrong and could go to gaol up to 4 years.  But that is only in Australia UK perhaps USA.  Doesn't matter what you sware to in Thailand there may only be 5000 sheep in the paddock.  That's OK.  A stat dec can be applicable to any type of commercial or personal situation for anything in Australia.  Affidavits in Australia are usually presented to a court in litigation or criminal cases as evidence. In most case where a witness can not attend the court for a number of reasons not quite the same in USA... maybe you are having a baby tonight you will be excused from attending court if you present an affidavit, the affidavits will be your testimony.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, Roy Baht said:

Actually just from what I see (no objective research) I'm see that Thais are increasingly reluctant to take care of parents who don't give them money.

With the current generation (millennials), I get the same impression.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, David Walden said:

But that is only in Australia UK perhaps USA.

UK never did stat decs. Doubt a British farmer would ever buy 10.000 sheep. Max 50. Welsh sheep farmers insist on test driving them first too. The last thing that they want is a ladyboy sheep.

[Roy Baht]

Undeniably, this is about moving money from foreign bank accounts to Thai bank accounts. Why wouldn't they want that? Boost the baht. Get Thais a better rate on their Hong Kong & Singapore shopping trips.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Roy Baht

[spidermike007]

Just returned from immigration recently, after renewing my marriage visa. The upside to this visa, is that only 400,000 is needed as a deposit, and it does not have to stay in the bank, once your visa is granted. The downsides are:

 

The hurdles you need to jump over, in order to get a marriage visa are stupid, ridiculous, unnecessary, draconian, wasteful, and silly. I understand the need for them to verify that you are a legitimate couple. Upon the first application. But, the dumb requirements should not relate to renewals. You should not be required to show fresh images of the house each time, copies of the marriage papers, the house documents, either come with a local Thai witness, or bring a signed affidavit from a local Thai each time, provide new maps to the house, and dozens of other requirements.

 

I just do not even know what to say about the process. I felt like a street dog by the time I left. After hours of paperwork, copy after copy after copy, each page having to be signed, and then being grilling by the surly officer, I literally felt like a street dog. The level of disrespect that immigration shows married couples here, and foreigners in general, is totally uncalled for, beyond the pale, and inane. The copy woman, the guy sorting our papers, they were all nice. But, the officers? Such sourpusses. The woman who was helping us was so difficult to work with, when she finally rejected us over the tiniest thing she did not like, after nearly an hour of reviewing every document with a microscope, so to speak, and said no, I responded by saying yes. YES, you are going to do this. Yes, you are going to do this right now. YES, you are going to stop saying NO to me right now. This ends now. She looked at me and did not know what to say. I asked for the manager. The top brass came over, and we had it sorted in 30 minutes. Took nearly 3 hours. And as usual, it will be a month, until I have final approval. Is it worth it? NO. It is my last marriage visa. I will go back to a retirement visa next year, or leave the country, before I subject myself to that abuse one more time.

 

I totally blame Prayuth, and the biggest joke. Immigration has gotten worse under their tutelage and their arrogance, and their insufferable xenophobia knows no bounds. This whole thing leaves a bitter, sour, nasty, foul taste in one's mouth, and the stench can be smelled for kilometers. Thailand is moving backwards on so many levels, I do not even know where to begin. 

[Speedo1968]

Have been on retirement visa for many years in Khon Kaen.

My last Extension of stay based on Retirement was in December 2018.

I have my first 90 day report for that visa on 25th February 2019.

Do I need a bank letter for my 90 day report as it falls before March 1st ???

Edited February 7, 2019 by Speedo1968

[Spaniel]

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Just returned from immigration recently, after renewing my marriage visa. The upside to this visa, is that only 400,000 is needed as a deposit, and it does not have to stay in the bank, once your visa is granted. The downsides are:

 

The hurdles you need to jump over, in order to get a marriage visa are stupid, ridiculous, unnecessary, draconian, wasteful, and silly. I understand the need for them to verify that you are a legitimate couple. Upon the first application. But, the dumb requirements should not relate to renewals. You should not be required to show fresh images of the house each time, copies of the marriage papers, the house documents, either come with a local Thai witness, or bring a signed affidavit from a local Thai each time, provide new maps to the house, and dozens of other requirements.

 

I just do not even know what to say about the process. I felt like a street dog by the time I left. After hours of paperwork, copy after copy after copy, each page having to be signed, and then being grilling by the surly officer, I literally felt like a street dog. The level of disrespect that immigration shows married couples here, and foreigners in general, is totally uncalled for, beyond the pale, and inane. The copy woman, the guy sorting our papers, they were all nice. But, the officers? Such sourpusses. The woman who was helping us was so difficult to work with, when she finally rejected us over the tiniest thing she did not like, after nearly an hour of reviewing every document with a microscope, so to speak, and said no, I responded by saying yes. YES, you are going to do this. Yes, you are going to do this right now. YES, you are going to stop saying NO to me right now. This ends now. She looked at me and did not know what to say. I asked for the manager. The top brass came over, and we had it sorted in 30 minutes. Took nearly 3 hours. And as usual, it will be a month, until I have final approval. Is it worth it? NO. It is my last marriage visa. I will go back to a retirement visa next year, or leave the country, before I subject myself to that abuse one more time.

 

I totally blame Prayuth, and the biggest joke. Immigration has gotten worse under their tutelage and their arrogance, and their insufferable xenophobia knows no bounds. This whole thing leaves a bitter, sour, nasty, foul taste in one's mouth, and the stench can be smelled for kilometers. Thailand is moving backwards on so many levels, I do not even know where to begin. 

Nice post.    Good reason why I will go with the B800,000  on deposit rather then the married route when I renew next month.

[ocddave]

6 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Just returned from immigration recently, after renewing my marriage visa. The upside to this visa, is that only 400,000 is needed as a deposit, and it does not have to stay in the bank, once your visa is granted. The downsides are:

 

The hurdles you need to jump over, in order to get a marriage visa are stupid, ridiculous, unnecessary, draconian, wasteful, and silly. I understand the need for them to verify that you are a legitimate couple. Upon the first application. But, the dumb requirements should not relate to renewals. You should not be required to show fresh images of the house each time, copies of the marriage papers, the house documents, either come with a local Thai witness, or bring a signed affidavit from a local Thai each time, provide new maps to the house, and dozens of other requirements.

 

I just do not even know what to say about the process. I felt like a street dog by the time I left. After hours of paperwork, copy after copy after copy, each page having to be signed, and then being grilling by the surly officer, I literally felt like a street dog. The level of disrespect that immigration shows married couples here, and foreigners in general, is totally uncalled for, beyond the pale, and inane. The copy woman, the guy sorting our papers, they were all nice. But, the officers? Such sourpusses. The woman who was helping us was so difficult to work with, when she finally rejected us over the tiniest thing she did not like, after nearly an hour of reviewing every document with a microscope, so to speak, and said no, I responded by saying yes. YES, you are going to do this. Yes, you are going to do this right now. YES, you are going to stop saying NO to me right now. This ends now. She looked at me and did not know what to say. I asked for the manager. The top brass came over, and we had it sorted in 30 minutes. Took nearly 3 hours. And as usual, it will be a month, until I have final approval. Is it worth it? NO. It is my last marriage visa. I will go back to a retirement visa next year, or leave the country, before I subject myself to that abuse one more time.

 

I totally blame Prayuth, and the biggest joke. Immigration has gotten worse under their tutelage and their arrogance, and their insufferable xenophobia knows no bounds. This whole thing leaves a bitter, sour, nasty, foul taste in one's mouth, and the stench can be smelled for kilometers. Thailand is moving backwards on so many levels, I do not even know where to begin. 

This has to be the Nonthaburi office.....i feel your pain brother....LOL

[Roy Baht]

6 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Just returned from immigration recently, after renewing my marriage visa. The upside to this visa, is that only 400,000 is needed as a deposit, and it does not have to stay in the bank, once your visa is granted. The downsides are:

 

The hurdles you need to jump over, in order to get a marriage visa are stupid, ridiculous, unnecessary, draconian, wasteful, and silly. I understand the need for them to verify that you are a legitimate couple. Upon the first application. But, the dumb requirements should not relate to renewals. You should not be required to show fresh images of the house each time, copies of the marriage papers, the house documents, either come with a local Thai witness, or bring a signed affidavit from a local Thai each time, provide new maps to the house, and dozens of other requirements.

 

I just do not even know what to say about the process. I felt like a street dog by the time I left. After hours of paperwork, copy after copy after copy, each page having to be signed, and then being grilling by the surly officer, I literally felt like a street dog. The level of disrespect that immigration shows married couples here, and foreigners in general, is totally uncalled for, beyond the pale, and inane. The copy woman, the guy sorting our papers, they were all nice. But, the officers? Such sourpusses. The woman who was helping us was so difficult to work with, when she finally rejected us over the tiniest thing she did not like, after nearly an hour of reviewing every document with a microscope, so to speak, and said no, I responded by saying yes. YES, you are going to do this. Yes, you are going to do this right now. YES, you are going to stop saying NO to me right now. This ends now. She looked at me and did not know what to say. I asked for the manager. The top brass came over, and we had it sorted in 30 minutes. Took nearly 3 hours. And as usual, it will be a month, until I have final approval. Is it worth it? NO. It is my last marriage visa. I will go back to a retirement visa next year, or leave the country, before I subject myself to that abuse one more time.

 

I totally blame Prayuth, and the biggest joke. Immigration has gotten worse under their tutelage and their arrogance, and their insufferable xenophobia knows no bounds. This whole thing leaves a bitter, sour, nasty, foul taste in one's mouth, and the stench can be smelled for kilometers. Thailand is moving backwards on so many levels, I do not even know where to begin. 

To me the ridiculous thing about the marriage visas isn't the hoops and humiliation they make you go through--but that they make you go through it again & again & again, year after year, as long as you are married.

[spidermike007]

Just now, ocddave said:

This has to be the Nonthaburi office.....i feel your pain brother....LOL

 

It was not. I am afraid to report that many of the immigration offices are guilty of these complaints. Too many. It is an attitude that seems to permeate the entire department. They seem to be genuinely unfond of foreigners. Not so, for most Thai people. Thankfully. But, the officials and the administration. What can one say? 

[ocddave]

1 minute ago, Roy Baht said:

To me the ridiculous thing about the marriage visas isn't the hoops and humiliation they make you go through--but that they make you go through it again & again & again, year after year, as long as you are married.

Yes, you would think they had computers that stored our first documents (Thailand 4.0?!?!??!), not ask for piles of more duplicate paperwork....and where do they get all these trees, where do they store all these papers?!?!

[spidermike007]

5 minutes ago, Roy Baht said:

To me the ridiculous thing about the marriage visas isn't the hoops and humiliation they make you go through--but that they make you go through it again & again & again, year after year, as long as you are married.

 

Precisely my point. I get why they would be very tough, when it comes to initially establishing your bonafides, making sure your marriage is real, and documenting everything very carefully. But, there is absolutely no need, that I can think of, to do this each and every year. It is nonsensical for everyone involved, to keep repeating the same steps over, and over, and over. It is humiliating, it is demeaning, it is disrespectful, it is petty, it is churlish, and it leaves a bitter taste in one's mouth and heart. It is so wasteful. It is so unnecessary. It accomplishes nothing. It causes inconvenience to both foreigners and Thais. Immigration here really has it wrong. They could be doing so much better. 

Edited February 7, 2019 by spidermike007

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, David Walden said:

If you buy a sheep farm in Australia and the sale contract say it includes 10,000 sheep you don't have to go out and count the sheep. 

Sorry, didn't read any more, I fell asleep!

Edited February 7, 2019 by jacko45k

[ocddave]

27 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Precisely my point. I get why they would be very tough, when it comes to initially establishing your bonafides, making sure your marriage is real, and documenting everything very carefully. But, there is absolutely no need, that I can think of, to do this each and every year. It is nonsensical for everyone involved, to keep repeating the same steps over, and over, and over. It is humiliating, it is demeaning, it is disrespectful, it is petty, it is churlish, and it leaves a bitter taste in one's mouth and heart. It is so wasteful. It is so unnecessary. It accomplishes nothing. It causes inconvenience to both foreigners and Thais. Immigration here really has it wrong. They could be doing so much better. 

Maybe its just to give Thai's a job, even if the job is completely useless, at least its paid for by the farangs.

Edited February 7, 2019 by ocddave

[upu2]

On 1/31/2019 at 7:32 PM, mlkik said:

800.000 baht is not very much if you genuinely have retired and have committed to living in Thailand.

Maybe the people getting worried do not really have enough to retire here? I know many people worry about the exchange rates,if that is the case again maybe they are not financially ready for retirement here?

I am far from being well off but I have put enough money in a Thai account to ensure a worry free retirement.

Interest rates here are no worse than my home country. I am not wealthy enough to speculate and possibly lose on the investment of stocks and shares . Therefore I see no reason not to have savings here.

 

It is if you can not access it for 5 months of the year when the intention was to show you have money to live on

Edited February 7, 2019 by upu2

[OJAS]

35 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

It was not. I am afraid to report that many of the immigration offices are guilty of these complaints. Too many. It is an attitude that seems to permeate the entire department. They seem to be genuinely unfond of foreigners. Not so, for most Thai people. Thankfully. But, the officials and the administration. What can one say? 

I had been labouring under the impression that requiring witnesses, home visits, etc for marriage extension renewals as well as for initial applications was peculiar to my office (Rayong). But it now appears that this practice is much more widespread than I had believed.

[ubonjoe]

A inflammatory baiting post has been removed. Time to end it or a formal warning will given.

[fforest1]

33 minutes ago, Roy Baht said:

I'm not nauseating, smug, insulting and unhelpful to the majority of totally legit expats. I'm just nauseating, smug, insulting and unhelpful to you. There's a difference isn't there?

Your very nauseating to me too...In practically every post you make...

[marcusarelus]

19 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Thank you for that. Those arrogant, smug comments from the "very wealthy" ex-pat brigade, who love to brag about the amounts of cash they have to keep in the bank, are getting tiring, to say the least. Foreigners are supposed to be modest when it comes to talk about money. Right? What happened guys? Been here too long? Listening to  too many locals endlessly discussing money?

 

The fact is that alot of us are NOT wealthy. We have enough to live on and support our families. But, excess cash is not one of life's challenges, that we deal with. It does not make us less valuable to society and it does not mean we do not deserve to live here, nor does it mean we do not live good and fulfilling lives. Like the vast majority of the planet, we have enough to get by. Deal with it please. 

 

Get over yourselves, guys. 

Life is all about showing your wealth.  Big cars, homes and designer clothes.  Monks are supposed to be modest but I have never heard that applied to foreigners.  We come to Thailand because we are wealthier than the average Thai and can live better here than Joe Plumber at home, nicer woman, bigger house better here than in the West. 

 

Why would anyone come to Thailand if not for making your money go further and buy more or - as some would put it showing off. 

 

I have a young wife and nice home and I'm living on my pension - that's showing off for my friends at home who can only afford a one room rental and geriatric companion. 

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

The ones that stayed in also said that. They veified your income, not the documents.

No, they continue to 'certify' the Income letter after seeing physical proof of incomes, that is not 'verifying' the incomes of the documents presented.

 

It's not difficult to understand there was a complete misunderstanding by Thai Immigration of the legalities of 'verifying' incomes, which was their chosen term to the Embassies, then after the biggest 3 announced withdrawing the service, Immigration come out with an amended order specifying ;

Income certification certified by the Embassy.

 

What happened to the 'verification'?

 

If from the offset Immigration had requested 'certified' Income letters, I'm sure the UK Embassy could have obliged, although the US and Aus, would have had to make some changes.

 

 

[elviajero]

7 hours ago, JackThompson said:

22 hours ago, elviajero said:

No there aren’t. Most retirees will not have a problem meeting the new rules.

 

The changes are not down to xenophobia! if they didn’t want us they wouldn’t offer visas and long term permits to stay! 

 

Because for most retirees it is not a problem. 

Not as long as those who can no longer qualify by the original rules (offered to them to retire when they arrived) switch to using agents, and pay the tribute demanded for permission to continue living here.

Explain to me why it’s necessary to now use an agent Because of the change in the rules.

[roger buttmore]

There will be those expats who live out in the boonies who don't go anywhere near an online forum, have Facebook, or read the news enough to notice a specific article which will heavily impact them. They will arrive for their next retirement extension in a state of ignorant bliss. It's then they will be in for a shock.

 

At least those who post, and the masses who read but choose to never get involved in the viper's pit of clever-dicks by posting, are forewarned. Whether they are forearmed with the necessary funds is another matter altogether.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I've been a here a long time and I always spend down from my 800K starting right after the extension and top it up before the next year's seasoning period. I can afford to live here.

Isn't the real issue here 'change'. Let's face it, we all get accustomed and adjust to a certain routine, then comes along a change that disrupts our known routines.

I don't think it was Roy Baht's intention to be smug, or insulting, he was just pointing out if you legally have the required funds to live in Thailand, the requirement to keep 800K in a Thai bank for 3 months after application shouldn't be an issue.

It will though mean a 'change' to how you manage your funds.

 

As you've stated and I'm sure a lot of other expats do exactly the same

Quote

I always spend down from my 800K starting right after the extension and top it up before the next year's seasoning period.

Presumably you have a monthly income that you saved in order to top up your account to 800K again.

It just now means you may have to transfer those incomes for 3 months, before you can draw down on the 800K to a minimum of 400K. At next top up time you'll only have to transfer 400K to top up.

It's an inconvenience, a 'change' to the method you previously used, but it doesn't change the actual amount of income you need at your disposal.

 

If you were receiving 800K income before, you still only need 800K income.

[Sheryl]

7 hours ago, xylophone said:

....I've been discussing this with the liaison person in that London "branch" of Bangkok bank and she informs me that if I get my UK pension paid in pounds to them, and request that they send pounds to my Thai bank account, then it will register as an international transfer here.

 

At the moment the pounds sent to the London "branch" are converted in London to Thai baht, before being transferred (if indeed they actually are) to Thailand, so if this is changed, apparently my statement will now read International Transfer.

 

On the one hand that's fantastic, however on the other hand the service will cost me £20 at the London end and anything between 200 and 500 baht at the Thai end, so more expensive than other methods (some of which I'm still investigating) but at least it's very doable!

Good that you got to the bottom of this and thanks for sharing.

 

Even with the 20 pound  and 200-500 baht fees,  it will likely prove to be the same or even better than what you were doing because you never get an optimal rate changing foreign currency to baht abroad. The rate is always better converting it after it arrives in Thailand. Good chance that having it converted here will add more than it costs.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Roy Baht said:

No it's not. If you can't put aside 800K for 5 months, you don't have enough money to retire here. Really.

I would have to disagree. Provided a person has health insurance, an income of 760-800K a year is quite adequate for living here (inclusive of 100k+ a year in insurance premiums). There are many people who live on less. I don't most years, but people do and nothing wrong with that.

 

To be able to put 800K aside for 5-6 months (seems many offices still say 3 months before) means you have in addition to the 800K another 400k to live off, i.e. 1.2 million baht. That is now the requirement but  I would hardly say that this amount is genionely necessary for living in Thaialnd, Unless in-country costs include significant expenses for other dependents (provate school tuition etc), it is not.

 

In fact most retirees living in the west don't have that much.

 

It is now the case that if you don't have 1,.2 million you can't stay here using the lump sum method for a retirement extension. But that is NOT the same thing as being unable to afford to live here.

 

The people  who really can't afford to be here are the ones who are unable to get health insurance due to pre-exisiting conditions, unless they have considerably more than 1.2 million at their disposable.

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, jiffers said:

No one seems to be referring to the situation regarding the income method, ie B65,000 per month.

I assume if you are able to show with a Thai bank account statement that you are paying this in every month, this is all that's needed.

Obviously, you will be spending the money over the month on living expenses.

it;s not mentioned because this thread is specific to the 800K method. There were  several lengthy threads dealing with the new rules for the income method after those came out , lengthy though they are I recommend you read them in full.

 

Showing you paid 65k into a Thai bank account every month is part of it but there is also a requirement that the money be shown to have come from abroad and this is the difficult one.  The police directive does nto spell out how that is to be established probably because it was just assumed it would be evident from the bank statement but in fact it is often is not. See those threads as this is discussed in great detail.

 

Also see

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1081966-65k-visa-requirement-best-method-to-transfer-money/

 

 

[Sheryl]

10 hours ago, David Walden said:

If you have the Bt800,000 in a bank or in retirement fund in your own country with a surrender value of at least Bt800,000 you do not have to put any money in a Thai bank to get a retirement visa.  Once you get the retirement visa you can do anything you like with money back home in your account.  The visa is good for 2 years.

What happens when the 2 years are up? Can you do these visas back to back indefinitely? Seems odd  TI would make the rules it has for retirement extensions yet allow that large of a loophole , at least nor for long.

[Roy Baht]

On 2/6/2019 at 2:11 PM, roger buttmore said:

You clearly didn't read what I'd posted before you commented, or you're deliberately trying to put words in my mouth.

 

I said 9 month's worth of monthly outlay, not one year, And I never mentioned anything about businesses at all. You're making things up, just like many used to do with their affidavit declarations, which is why those on a financial cliff-edge now have crumbling terraferma beneath their feet.

Something I'd never thought I would say but: buttmore is right

[Sheryl]

10 hours ago, SantiSuk said:

Thai interest rates are better than most of the European rates anyway even under the premise that you can't use fixed rate accounts (and the 15% tax paid can be reclaimed up to a limit that would allow 10million baht plus to be saved here effectively tax-free if you have no other taxable income in Thailand). I presume that fixed rate accounts will now be acceptable anyway since the new keep it in the account rules negate the previous apparent reason for disallowing such. Actually of course I presume my logic will not be applied!

 

 

And therein lies the problem.

 

i was unsuccessful in getting confirmation form my Imm office that FD is acceptable. (They did not say no, just that they did not know...so I will try asking again when someone else is behind the desk).

 

Thai interest rates are lower than US rates and much, much lower than what can be gotten through some investments. Also much lower than can be gotten in some countries in the region, I have my largest deposit in Cambodia getting over 7%. So dropping to Thai rates will hurt.

 

And before someone comes in and  implies that anyone with enough money to be concerned with the interest it yields is plenty wealthy and just dabbling for fun, please note that many people rely solely or partially on the income earned from saved capital to finance their retirements.

 

In fact in some countries it is what citizens are expected to do,  and there is no expectation or promise from the government to fully support them in  old age.  I have known all my life that it was up to me to save enough money for my old age.  I now need to carefully manage that capital to generate the needed income for the rest of my life, taking my own needs and those of people depending in me into account - current and future i.e. also planning for inflation and rising costs of living (and yes, possible increased TI requirements) down the road.

 

I think you will find that anyone supporting themselves from income derived from savings is doing so with much higher yields than Thai interest rates provide.

 

For those who are totally or partly reliant on income earned from accumulated savings, large drops in interest do matter.

[Jingthing]

True

Hard to believe considering the agents are already quoting new prices. Why not just bust the agents etc. instead of harassing compliers.

 

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