Thailand Vs Malaysia

[Rsee]

Hi all,

I am debating wether or not to settle in Malaysia under MMSH, or settle in Thailand.

I am curious to know if some of you have have lived in both places, or have debated the same thing, and what you believe would be the significant "pluses" and "negatives" of each place.

thanks.

[thai_narak]

Hi all,

I am debating wether or not to settle in Malaysia under MMSH, or settle in Thailand.

I am curious to know if some of you have have lived in both places, or have debated the same thing, and what you believe would be the significant "pluses" and "negatives" of each place.

thanks.

i myself would like to consider the mmsh program of malaysia but since my families are thai they may somehow disagree with me if i finally decide that i would actually prefer malaysia than thailand for simple reasons that the mmsh has some attractive benefits compare to thailand visa program.

i have been in malaysia many times and i see no problems staying there for long terms. it is also close to thailand that i can easily take an air asia flight if missing thailand badly.

Edited February 24, 2007 by thai_narak

[ColPyat]

Hi all,

I am debating wether or not to settle in Malaysia under MMSH, or settle in Thailand.

I am curious to know if some of you have have lived in both places, or have debated the same thing, and what you believe would be the significant "pluses" and "negatives" of each place.

thanks.

Malaysia plus: safety

Thailand plus: exitement

Cost of living is rather similar, both places have great food from all over in the capital cities.

Malaysia is far more developed than Thailand. I leave Malaysia open as an option in case i can't stand it here anymore one day. If i would be newly arriving i might seriously consider Malaysia, and not Thailand at the present moment.

[Jet Gorgon]

I love the old houses in Penang. Always thought it would be great to renovate one. Lots of yum food, ok shopping, multi-lingual/cultural people, but no relaxed nightlife, even just to go for a drink. And dogs are not a big hit there. Killer kitty guards?

[Florin]

I agree with the above "more civilized, less exciting" comments...the people are very nice, but they're just...I dunno, they're not as fun to be around as the Thais.

Been to Penang, KL and Kota Kinabalu and loved all 3, though I think Penang is the nicest, especially the Georgetown area...so charming!

If you can get a decent job, I say go for it, the atmosphere is a lot more professional than Thailand, but one of the biggest pluses of the country (everyone speaks English) is also a big minus for you if you're looking for a "farang" job package because of your language skills.

[naka]

I love the old houses in Penang. Always thought it would be great to renovate one. Lots of yum food, ok shopping, multi-lingual/cultural people, but no relaxed nightlife, even just to go for a drink. And dogs are not a big hit there. Killer kitty guards?

You would like Melaka (Malacca) then, the old houses that is.

Having worked and lived in KL I can suggest the following nightlife areas.

Jalan Ramlee, Jalan Sultan Ismail, Jalan Bukit Bintang, Bangsar Baru, Sri Hartamas.

Plenty of fun to be had in KL, just not as 'in your face' as Thailand. Also much safer !

(The death penalty is possible for just having a handgun)

Naka.

[Sing_Sling]

I would doubt that most of the non-MNC-based expats from Thailand would like living in Malaysia, it is a different world.

Apples to apples would be Thailand and the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam etc . . .

Malaysia falls somewhere between this and Singapore, HK, Japan

Discrimination is entrenched in law, Malays/Muslims = Bumiputera are accorded a higher status than others.

Be aware that this is a majority Muslim country and whiteys are not treated any special, you want to enter into a relationship with a local lady (Malay, who are more similar to Thais in terms of looks) and you can get into deep trouble . . .

Malaysia is trying to revert to a stricter version of Islam and has enacted several laws and programs to do just that.

One thing that Malaysia is known for among expats:

It never fails to disappoint.

[Florin]

Discrimination is entrenched in law, Malays/Muslims = Bumiputera are accorded a higher status than others.

How does that work? I would still think Westerners are legally treated to less hassles there than here.

One thing that Malaysia is known for among expats:

It never fails to disappoint.

People don't get dissapointed so easily if they have a better general idea of what to expect...a sex tourism country it definitely ain't, but then again, which Muslim country (besides Indonesia, maybe?) is?

And from a general quality of life standpoint, I would think Thailand is much more dissapointing than Malaysia...in Thailand you always get the good vibe of people trying hard to accommodate your wishes, in Malaysia you don't get this personal vibe, but more things work a lot better because the system design was intelligent and efficient in the first place.

[wintermute]

I would doubt that most of the non-MNC-based expats from Thailand would like living in Malaysia, it is a different world.

Apples to apples would be Thailand and the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam etc . . .

Malaysia falls somewhere between this and Singapore, HK, Japan

Discrimination is entrenched in law, Malays/Muslims = Bumiputera are accorded a higher status than others.

Be aware that this is a majority Muslim country and whiteys are not treated any special, you want to enter into a relationship with a local lady (Malay, who are more similar to Thais in terms of looks) and you can get into deep trouble . . .

Malaysia is trying to revert to a stricter version of Islam and has enacted several laws and programs to do just that.

One thing that Malaysia is known for among expats:

It never fails to disappoint.

The flaws that make Thailand the way it is is why expats like living in Thailand to begin with. The "excitement" factor is directly attributed to the strange culture, easy women, and good food. Malaysia has 2 out of the 3. Malaysian women are pretty much a "no no" unless you enjoy sharing the same girls with "loose" morals as all the other expats. Also, the principle reason why a lot of western expats can't hack Malaysia is the predominate muslim religion/culture. This puts a lot of blocks to the hedonistic lifestyle a lot of expats want to live in SE Asia.

Other than that Malaysia is actually cleaner, safer, and has much better infrastructure than Thailand. The education system is also better so if you were to have kids there they could have a decent upbringing. For retirement purposes Malaysia is a much better and safer bet. For the young expat Thailand is better simply if you want to live it up with little or no plans.

Of course Thailand is trying to change its reputation but the culture/politics of the country make it even more of a haven for this type of expat.

[Casanundra]

Discrimination is entrenched in law, Malays/Muslims = Bumiputera are accorded a higher status than others.

But of course Thailand doesn't have any kind of discrimination where everyone is treated equally regardless of skin colour and creed

[astral]

Here are some other thoughts posted a couple of weeks ago

[ThaiGoon]

Before the coup, here's how countries were ranked in terms of business friendly environment by World Bank:

http://www.readbangkokpost.com/economics/e..._place_to_d.php

"For ease of doing business, Thailand ranks 18th out of 175 countries in the world." Malaysia was 25th in the world.

"Thailand ranks fourth in the Asian region."

Edited February 25, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[Austhaied]

Discrimination is entrenched in law, Malays/Muslims = Bumiputera are accorded a higher status than others.

But of course Thailand doesn't have any kind of discrimination where everyone is treated equally regardless of skin colour and creed

:D

[PhilHarries]

Being on my second stint in Malaysia and now here for just over a year I can add, I was going to say some words of wisdom but that would be pretentious so, my 25 stang's worth.

I fully agree with the statements above, Malaysia is a great place and, in many ways, more accommodating and welcoming than Thailand. But it is not, and never will be, Thailand for it is lacking what has been described as "excitement" but I would define as rough living. All that stuff we love to whine about when living in Thailand is, for a large part, the reason we love it. If we wanted to live our lives safe and sound, cushioned from life's little vagiaries, we'd have stayed put in our home villages. Let's face it getting up to no water supply for the third day running, whilst an irritation, does make us put something into living and makes us appreciate a little bit more the stuff we normally take for granted.

Anyway, Malaysia:-

The MM2H (MMSH) program is a great way for expats, who meet the criteria, to come to Malaysia and settle down buying property 100% in their name and with a 10 year extendable visa. Of course, like with any country, there is no lifetime guarantee to all this. Virtually any non-first world country is vulnerable to civil wars, internicine strife and (dare I say it) coup-de-tats.

Depending on how you judge it the quality of life here is better than in Thailand but living is more expensive and I would hazard a guess, if pushed, at double. There is poverty but, certainly here in KL, you don't see so much of it. There is prostitution but not to the extent of Bangkok or Pattaya and it's not so much in your face.

One poster on TV criticised a comparison of mine between MY and TH saying MY was on the verge of civil war. There are racial tensions, that much cannot be denied, but it is nowhere near civil war. As said on another thread in TV the average Muslim in southern Thailand wants nothing to do with the extremists. They are the same here, pragmatic and peaceful people who want nothing of the fundamental radicalism being spouted forth in their name. Recently the governor of Terrengannu state has made statements regarding the use of chastity belts for women and mat skoding (spies) to prevent immoral behaviour between single people (there's a word for that I can't remember - something like kahlwat). The vast majority of Malaysians cringed in embarrasment before erupting in laughter and p1ss taking cartoons over that. Someone else mentioned women getting stoned to death for transgressions, my advice to him or her is take a little more water with whatever you're imbibing.

Thailand is still my #1 choice but, being a realist, I am keeping my options open until the time comes to hang up my safety boots and be "gone fishing".

[singa-traz]

Discrimination is entrenched in law, Malays/Muslims = Bumiputera are accorded a higher status than others.

But of course Thailand doesn't have any kind of discrimination where everyone is treated equally regardless of skin colour and creed

:D

There are two type of Malaysian: Malay and non Malay, and they don't have the same right, by law.

Thailand don't have such law.

[Austhaied]

Discrimination is entrenched in law, Malays/Muslims = Bumiputera are accorded a higher status than others.

But of course Thailand doesn't have any kind of discrimination where everyone is treated equally regardless of skin colour and creed

:D

There are two type of Malaysian: Malay and non Malay, and they don't have the same right, by law.

Thailand don't have such law.

:bah:

[Sing_Sling]

Discrimination is entrenched in law, Malays/Muslims = Bumiputera are accorded a higher status than others.

But of course Thailand doesn't have any kind of discrimination where everyone is treated equally regardless of skin colour and creed

:D

There are two type of Malaysian: Malay and non Malay, and they don't have the same right, by law.

Thailand don't have such law.

:bah:

Not quite sure why the laughter. Please do show me where it says that the legal status of Thais and non-Thais are different. How about the legal status of certain Thais and Thais of another culture/race.

In Malaysia it is entrenched in law that anyone who is not Muslim Malay Malaysian has fewer rights than they.

Casanundra, perhaps you'd like to read the sentence again . . it contains the word 'law'. There is no such law in Thailand that discriminates based on race and religion of their own citizens.

Austhaied . . . your contribution is . . .

Edited February 25, 2007 by Sing_Sling

[Austhaied]

Discrimination is entrenched in law, Malays/Muslims = Bumiputera are accorded a higher status than others.

But of course Thailand doesn't have any kind of discrimination where everyone is treated equally regardless of skin colour and creed

:D

There are two type of Malaysian: Malay and non Malay, and they don't have the same right, by law.

Thailand don't have such law.

:bah:

Not quite sure why the laughter. Please do show me where it says that the legal status of Thais and non-Thais are different. How about the legal status of certain Thais and Thais of another culture/race.

In Malaysia it is entrenched in law that anyone who is not Muslim Malay Malaysian has fewer rights than they.

Casanundra, perhaps you'd like to read the sentence again . . it contains the word 'law'. There is no such law in Thailand that discriminates based on race and religion of their own citizens.

Austhaied . . . your contribution is . . .

It may not be written, but it exists..

[Sing_Sling]

Of course it exists, I doubt anyone would dispute that. But - and here is the but - whatever you have going against you in Thailand, you have it going against you multiple times in Malaysia.

Imagine a country where not only foreigners are discriminated against, but even close to 40% of their own population are legally second-tier citizens.

As for getting PR or even citizenship . . .

The only advantage I see with Malaysia is that the majority of people speak English. . . . and that's it.

[Austhaied]

Of course it exists, I doubt anyone would dispute that. But - and here is the but - whatever you have going against you in Thailand, you have it going against you multiple times in Malaysia.

Imagine a country where not only foreigners are discriminated against, but even close to 40% of their own population are legally second-tier citizens.

As for getting PR or even citizenship . . .

The only advantage I see with Malaysia is that the majority of people speak English. . . . and that's it.

What about the fact that a "orang putih" (farang) can own property in his name... I have mates in KL and Penang and they swear by it.. The Bumiputra thing does not affect them at all..

[oswaldcassidy]

If you are a uk citizan you can enter malaysia on a ninty day visa at no cost so you could live between the two countries and enjoy two different life styles my preference is thailand although the malaysian customs officers are much more polite.

[Sing_Sling]

Enjoy the backhanders . . . I know people who have been doing the residence two-step for years and years. Nothing is guaranteed. Ask yourselves why there are so many people leaving the country for greener pastures.

Granted, I like Malaysian durian but that's not enough to live there - - - crime rate is another factor.

Guideline on the Ownership of Malaysia Properties

by Foreign Interests by Foreign Investment Committee

Guidelines on the Ownership of Malaysia Properties by Foreign Interests (1 November 1995)

Introduction These guidelines are to clarify the new rules and regulations on the purchase of properties by foreign interests which was imposed at the Federal and State levels as announced by the Deputy Prime Minister on 23rd June 1995.

General Guidelines

* All purchases of land by foreign interests must be with the approval of the FIC regardless of its value.

* Foreign interests are not permitted to purchase all types of land valued RM250,000.00 or less except industrial land.

* All land purchased by foreign interests cannot be resold within three (3) years from the date of FIC approval.

Residential Property

Foreign interests are not permitted to purchase these residential properties:

* Double storey terrace houses

* Low and medium cost houses

* Low and medium cost

* flats Houses on Malay Reserve Land

* Bumiputra quotas

Foreign interests are permitted to purchase the following types of residential properties:

* Terrace houses which are more than 2 stories, provided the houses purchased do not exceed 10% of the total number of units of each such type in a particular housing project. The purchase is subject to a minimum price of more than RM250,000.00 as has been fixed by the relevant State Authority.

* Land/bungalow houses and semi detached houses provided the houses do not exceed 10% of the total number of units of each such type in a particular housing project. The purchase is also subject to minimum price of more than RM250,000.00 as fixed by the relevant State Authority. If the land purchased is further developed for investment purposes, the buyer is required to form a company, which is incorporated in Malaysia and of which at least 49% is owned by Malaysians, comprising at least 30% bumiputra.

* Condominium/apartment units valued below RM250,000.00 provided that the units do not exceed 30% of the total number of units in each block.

Foreign interests (for individuals which includes married couples) are not permitted to own more than one residential unit. The purchase of a second unit or more is treated as being for investment purposes and can only be made by a company, which is incorporated in Malaysia and of which at least 70% is owned by Malaysians, comprising at least 30% bumiputra.

The purchase of more than one residential unit by foreign interests for use as a holiday retreat for their employees can be considered.

Business Property

Foreign interests are not permitted to own the following types of business property:

* Shops which are 2 stories or less

* Low cost shops

* Stalls

* Service workshops, and

* Business property on Malay Reserve Land

Foreign interests are permitted to own the following types of business property:

* Shophouses which are 3 stories or more subject to a minimum purchase price of more than RM250,000.00 as fixed by the relevant State Authority and

* Business complex space or office space, provided that;

1. It does not exceed 20% of its type in any particular project, and

2. The purchase is made by a company which is incorporated in Malaysia and of which at least 49% is owned by Malaysians, comprising at least 30% bumiputra. This condition relating to the equity structure of the company applies only in respect of the intended ownership of relevant landed property.

Agricultural Land

Foreign interests are not permitted to purchase existing traditional agricultural land for the purpose of conducting upon it, farming activities such as cultivating rubber trees and palm oil trees. Foreign interests are permitted to purchase agricultural land for the following purposes:

* Conducting commercial farming activities using advanced technology

* Operating an industry based on agriculture; and

* Operating a tourist project; provided that the purchase is made by a company, which is incorporated in Malaysia and of which at least 49% is owned by Malaysians, comprising at least 30% bumiputra.

Foreign interests are permitted to purchase agricultural land, for the purpose of providing goods for export, as outlined by the Ministry of International Trade and Industry (MITI). The equity structure of the foreign interest is to be in accordance with the guidelines determined by MITI.

Industrial Land

Foreign interests are permitted to buy industrial land for the purposes of operating a company subject to the following conditions:

* They must have a manufacturing license issued by MITI; and

* In respect of a company, which does not have a manufacturing license from MITI, the foreign equity participation in that company shall have the FIC's prior approval.

Land for Development

All purchases of land by foreign interests for the purpose of development as a housing project, business property or industrial area shall be made by a company, which is incorporated in Malaysia and of which at least 70% is owned by Malaysians, comprising at least 30% bumiputra.

Effective Date

These guidelines came into force from June 24, 1995. The FIC guidelines on the purchase of residential property by foreign interests which were released on 17 December 1992 have been repealed.

Application

1. All applications can be made using the following forms:

* FIC 1/95 and Appendix A/95 forms for the purchase of residential units

* FIC 2/95 and Appendix A/95 forms for the purchase of shophouses, business complex space and office space, factory and factory lot.

2. All the completed forms should be sent to:

The Secretary

Foreign Investment Committee

Economic Planning Unit,

Prime Minister Department

Block B5, Level -1,

Pusat Pentadbiran Kerajaan Persekutuan,

62502 Putrajaya, Selangor

Telephone: ++603-8888 2969 or ++603-8888 3333

[tutsiwarrior]

another thing to be said about Malaysia is that the malay language is A LOT easier to learn than thai and is spoken by a lot more people (include Indonesia, Brunei, etc). I was favorably impressed by Georgetown when there to get a visa 4 years ago...my thai wife didn't like the place maybe because I was exuberant about what a nice place it was and how it compared to the rural thai shithole that we live in...

if I had the opportunity to do it all over again and had the choice I'd know what to do with Thailand...

[redrus]

The Perhentian Islands, my favourite place.

redrus

[Sing_Sling]

Oh, another thing . . . you think Thailand is corrupt? Just wait until you experience Malaysia . . .

Crime? Welcome to Malaysia where it is endemic . . etc . . .

But yes, Bahasa Malayu is easier to learn, much easier. Almost no grammar, kind of a like a baby language:

Orang - person

Orang orang - people

barang - thing

barang barang - things

This kind of stuff, quite cute.

The politicians are overtly corrupt and show their wealth and . . . . as so many members here seem to have a problem with Chinese . . . there are millions of them in Malaysia. Have fun.

[astral]

In Malaysia it is entrenched in law that anyone who is not Muslim Malay Malaysian has fewer rights than they.

There is no such thing as a non muslim Malay.

It is a contradiction in terms.

Non muslim Malysian is a totally different kettle of fish.

As for the language, it is pretty limited, but then so is Thai............

ice = hard water!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thaihome]

Oh, another thing . . . you think Thailand is corrupt? Just wait until you experience Malaysia . . .

Crime? Welcome to Malaysia where it is endemic . . etc . . .

But yes, Bahasa Malayu is easier to learn, much easier. Almost no grammar, kind of a like a baby language:

Orang - person

Orang orang - people

barang - thing

barang barang - things

This kind of stuff, quite cute.

The politicians are overtly corrupt and show their wealth and . . . . as so many members here seem to have a problem with Chinese . . . there are millions of them in Malaysia. Have fun.

I appreciate your frank discussions of Malaysia and it rings very true from my experience in living there (KL and East Coast) for over a year. Just went on a trip last week to east coast for 2 days, reminded me of why I like living in Thailand, can't really put into words, but most people that have lived there will know what I mean.

For those considering it as an option to Thailand, I say go for it, but don’t burn your bridges to Thailand, you will be back. Remember, you most likely moved to Thailand based on visits, so maybe your visa runs to Malaysia have given you an even bigger false impression.

TH

Edited February 25, 2007 by thaihome

[Sing_Sling]

In Malaysia it is entrenched in law that anyone who is not Muslim Malay Malaysian has fewer rights than they.

There is no such thing as a non muslim Malay.

It is a contradiction in terms.

Non muslim Malysian is a totally different kettle of fish.

As for the language, it is pretty limited, but then so is Thai............

ice = hard water!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually there is.

Most Filipinos are Malay. Most Indonesians are Malay etc . . . Malays as a race are spread all over Asia and even the Pacific, hence the differentiation.

It is precisely this differentiation that drives the nonsense of Ketuanan Melayu.

ice = hard water . . . it is cute.

[Sing_Sling]

For those considering it as an option to Thailand, I say go for it, but don’t burn your bridges to Thailand, you will be back. Remember, you most likely moved to Thailand based on visits, so maybe your visa runs to Malaysia have given you an even bigger false impression.

I forgot to mention that Thaihome has an excellent point.

For some reason Thailand subconsciously reminds me of dust and Malaysia of mud, in terms of association . . . weird.

[LaoPo]

Before the coup, here's how countries were ranked in terms of business friendly environment by World Bank:

http://www.readbangkokpost.com/economics/e..._place_to_d.php

"For ease of doing business, Thailand ranks 18th out of 175 countries in the world." Malaysia was 25th in the world.

"Thailand ranks fourth in the Asian region."

I've done business and worked in 14 of the 30 mentioned countries, including Thailand.

Thailand was the most complicated and headache giving of them all...by far.

And, Thailand is 'more ease of doing business' than Belgium, Germany, Netherlands and Korea...? come on; who are these bureaucrats ?!

They're certainly not business people...

LaoPo