Thailand Vs Malaysia

[roguegirl]

i remember one of my friend in malaysia told me that the school qouta was 70% for malays, 20% for chinese, and 10% for indians.

anyway, i'm quite irritated long time ago when i entered one chatroom in malaysia that the first question they were asking me was what my race was... race? no one has ever asked this from me before.

Yes, very stupid and silly indeed.

I applied for a job in one company and the first question the lady from the company asked me was "What is your race?".

I didn't answer and ditch the application.

[Casanundra]

i remember one of my friend in malaysia told me that the school qouta was 70% for malays, 20% for chinese, and 10% for indians.

anyway, i'm quite irritated long time ago when i entered one chatroom in malaysia that the first question they were asking me was what my race was... race? no one has ever asked this from me before.

Yes, very stupid and silly indeed.

I applied for a job in one company and the first question the lady from the company asked me was "What is your race?".

I didn't answer and ditch the application.

You should have said the 400 metre relay race and the 100 metre sprint as demonstrated as thus...

[shochu]

Interesting discusion so far.

Would like to add my 2 bits and also ask a question.

I have been to KL many times and have a very good close friend living and working there who is half malay-british. From his and others comments there, yes there is much discrimination in ML and a lot of resentment from each race at each other. The chinese and Indians are very hard working and the chinese are the prime drivers of the economy. The Indians do their part. The malays are generally - how shall I say it - easy going and not too interested in getting things done. There is a lot of bad energy below the surface. Definitely not the harmonious society the gov't portrays. The expats generally have a good time there - they are on the high end of the chain and come and go with much freedom and much celebrity. They are a sought after commodity there among all the races. There does not seem to be too much mixing among the races except among the expats and the orignal residents whether they be chinese, half, indians and last malays.

Thailand on the other hand seems to have integrated much more in terms of races among the locals than ML has. For instance among the large chinese population, many have married into the local population although there are some chinese families that are only chinese. But these families have adopted the thai names and the thai ways in many forms, perhaps not all.

I think the expats are getting less and less respect as every year goes by in thailand. If you are asian, then thailand does not treat you any differently. They think of you as asian or farang and I think this has been becoming more and more evident as of late. There seems to be a noticeable feeling in the air that thailand wants a different kind of tourist visiting. Perhaps part of this has to do with the way asians tend to be more low key in their activities, and the expats that do frequent the nightlife, much more blatant.

I found a lot of resentment among the locals in ML when I speak to them, whereas in Thaliand, I wonder - and thus ask the

question - how are the chinese perceived in thailand?

I ask this because I get the feeling that there is much harmony here, more so than in ML, but at the same time, I get the feeling that there is some stuff hididen behind the scenes more than one can get at. For instance, i finally heard soem thai people say how fustrated they were at having to do things for royalty , such as when any of them drives somewhere and all the traffic is diverted. And at times I see there does seem to be a hugely disproportionate amount of public activity benefitting those who are thai-chinese. Another example was the schools I visited recently seem to have a very high protion who looked to have some chinese in the mix. With this much power in their hands, there must be soem resentment. Perhaps it is the thai way to not complain publicly that is the difference.

Much of the south asian countries have had race riots except for thailand from what i understand. is it just simmering below the surface, or is this just a part of the thainess that many people like?

And a final note - I have thought about a second home for quite some time and Malaysia was a consideration and I have decided against it because of the race relations, the problems my firends have in getting things done there - red tape if you are not 100% malay and their religion. And the fact that every time I go there to visit friends, I'm bored and can't wait to leave, and this has nothing to do with the nightlife. And, KL does not seem to be a main destination and thus more difficult to get to and do busniess with.

I have bought a place in bangkok and am now looking at starting a second business with local partners -- yes I have doem plenty of research -- and no I do not want to be warned about this -- it is not in the nightlife area.

[redrus]

i remember one of my friend in malaysia told me that the school qouta was 70% for malays, 20% for chinese, and 10% for indians.

anyway, i'm quite irritated long time ago when i entered one chatroom in malaysia that the first question they were asking me was what my race was... race? no one has ever asked this from me before.

Yes, very stupid and silly indeed.

I applied for a job in one company and the first question the lady from the company asked me was "What is your race?".

I didn't answer and ditch the application.

You should have said the 400 metre relay race and the 100 metre sprint as demonstrated as thus...

Every job application I have filled out in the UK over the last 6 years, has asked me my ethnic background....!

Why should Malaysia be any different.?

redrus

[LaoPo]

Every job application I have filled out in the UK over the last 6 years, has asked me my ethnic background....!

redrus

That's strange. As far as I know it's against the EU rules (human rights). After all it is about skills and not about race.

My government -EU- is even running television commercials against job application name-racism.

But I have -sadly- to say that racism exists also in my country.

LaoPo

[Kismet]

As a Chinese born in malaysia, I would be able to give you some good points and

bad points (pros & cons) for choosing Malaysia as your second home.

Let's start with the bad points first.

First Part (Bad Points)

Malaysia is a Muslim country. We have the Civil Courts and the Syariah Courts (Muslim Courts)

All civil and criminal matters comes under the Civil Courts (English Jurisprudence).

The Syariah courts only deal with mulim laws, only applies to muslim citizens, matters like,

marriages, divorce cases, moral activities, apostasy cases (not to be tolerated), and so on.

If you marry a muslim, you have to convert. Once a muslim, forever a muslim. No way out

(unless of course you leave the country). All Malays are muslims by law. They have special

rights over the non muslims, that is say the Chinese, Indians, and other non muslim races.

Period. I stop here.

Part 2 (Good Points)

The other races, the Chinese, Indians, and other races are free to practice their own faith.

They can eat anything they like, drink anything they like, and also they have places to

gamble. They have weekly races (Turf Clubs) in Penang, Ipoh, and Kuala Lumpur.

Oh yes, they have the only Casino in the whole country...... in Genting Highlands,

a one hour drive from Kuala Lumpur. Malaysian muslims are not allowed to enter into

the Casino.

Most of the population speaks English. English is the second language of this nation.

The three English papers are : The Star, New Straits Times and The Sun (which is free

of charge). TV stations are mainly in English, then Malay and also Chinese.

High Court cases can be conducted in English with consent. Contracts are written in

Malay and mostly in English. When the Chinese and Indian friends meet, they speak

English. When the Chinese meet, they will speak Chinese and English at the same

time. For your info, I speak more English than Chinese to my family members.

It may sound strange to you, but this is our way of life. To my Malay friends, I also

speak Malay and English in between.

In concluding, of course we have our differences, resentments, problems and so on.

However, life must go on.

Mai mee pan ha ! Choke di nah, krap.

[LoveDaBlues]

As a Chinese born in malaysia, I would be able to give you some good points and

bad points (pros & cons) for choosing Malaysia as your second home.

Let's start with the bad points first.

First Part (Bad Points)

Malaysia is a Muslim country. We have the Civil Courts and the Syariah Courts (Muslim Courts)

All civil and criminal matters comes under the Civil Courts (English Jurisprudence).

The Syariah courts only deal with mulim laws, only applies to muslim citizens, matters like,

marriages, divorce cases, moral activities, apostasy cases (not to be tolerated), and so on.

If you marry a muslim, you have to convert. Once a muslim, forever a muslim. No way out

(unless of course you leave the country). All Malays are muslims by law. They have special

rights over the non muslims, that is say the Chinese, Indians, and other non muslim races.

Period. I stop here.

Part 2 (Good Points)

The other races, the Chinese, Indians, and other races are free to practice their own faith.

They can eat anything they like, drink anything they like, and also they have places to

gamble. They have weekly races (Turf Clubs) in Penang, Ipoh, and Kuala Lumpur.

Oh yes, they have the only Casino in the whole country...... in Genting Highlands,

a one hour drive from Kuala Lumpur. Malaysian muslims are not allowed to enter into

the Casino.

Most of the population speaks English. English is the second language of this nation.

The three English papers are : The Star, New Straits Times and The Sun (which is free

of charge). TV stations are mainly in English, then Malay and also Chinese.

High Court cases can be conducted in English with consent. Contracts are written in

Malay and mostly in English. When the Chinese and Indian friends meet, they speak

English. When the Chinese meet, they will speak Chinese and English at the same

time. For your info, I speak more English than Chinese to my family members.

It may sound strange to you, but this is our way of life. To my Malay friends, I also

speak Malay and English in between.

In concluding, of course we have our differences, resentments, problems and so on.

However, life must go on.

Mai mee pan ha ! Choke di nah, krap.

Sounds like the Bloods and the Crips. Sad.

[Kismet]

More info on Malaysian politics.

This will make you laugh, smile, wonder, or even cry.

Whatever it is, this is What Malaysia is all about.

The present Government is run by the Barisan Government, comprising the dominant

Malay Party, Chinese based Party, Indian based Party, and other East Malaysia based

parties. In reality, the majority Malay base party is calling the shots. They are in control.

Opposition parties: they have a new multi racial party, Chinese base Party, Indian base

Party, etc, and of course the Islamic base Party, which has gain State control in Kelantan,

bordering south of Thailand.

Parliament debates are sometimes debated hotly, very racial in nature.

Words like, " You are a recialists, You go back to China, You can go to ...........

and calling each other all sorts of names. Shouting, screaming, and tearing their hair out,

and so on and on. At the end of the day....... no problem, no trouble, nothing happens, meet again

and things become normal. Of course, in the cabinet, the majority are Malays, and there are a few

Chinese cabinet ministers and other non muslim ministers. At present the Chief Minister of

Penang is a Chinese. The Penang Police chief is a Chinese.

Bty, the present ACA Director (Anti Corruption Agency) is being accused of corruption by the

former retired ACA Director. Both are Malays. The opposition parties are having a field day over

this allegations.

Malaysia has encouraged tourism. So much so that many countries can come in now ......

30 days visa given on arrival (with return air ticket). Please check with the Malaysian Immigration

website for more info. Certain countries (particularly Africian countries) need a visa before coming in.

For Thai national, no problem...... 30 days visa would be given on arrival.

Sawaidi. Choke di nah, krap !

[luckyluke]

Once a muslim, forever a muslim. No way out

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

In my humble opinion this is the same for the roman catholics,you become catholic by christening and there no sacrament to change this.

[THAILIBAN]

More info on Malaysian politics.

This will make you laugh, smile, wonder, or even cry.

Whatever it is, this is What Malaysia is all about.

The present Government is run by the Barisan Government, comprising the dominant

Malay Party, Chinese based Party, Indian based Party, and other East Malaysia based

parties. In reality, the majority Malay base party is calling the shots. They are in control.

Opposition parties: they have a new multi racial party, Chinese base Party, Indian base

Party, etc, and of course the Islamic base Party, which has gain State control in Kelantan,

bordering south of Thailand.

Parliament debates are sometimes debated hotly, very racial in nature.

Words like, " You are a recialists, You go back to China, You can go to ...........

and calling each other all sorts of names. Shouting, screaming, and tearing their hair out,

and so on and on. At the end of the day....... no problem, no trouble, nothing happens, meet again

and things become normal. Of course, in the cabinet, the majority are Malays, and there are a few

Chinese cabinet ministers and other non muslim ministers. At present the Chief Minister of

Penang is a Chinese. The Penang Police chief is a Chinese.

Bty, the present ACA Director (Anti Corruption Agency) is being accused of corruption by the

former retired ACA Director. Both are Malays. The opposition parties are having a field day over

this allegations.

Malaysia has encouraged tourism. So much so that many countries can come in now ......

30 days visa given on arrival (with return air ticket). Please check with the Malaysian Immigration

website for more info. Certain countries (particularly Africian countries) need a visa before coming in.

For Thai national, no problem...... 30 days visa would be given on arrival.

Sawaidi. Choke di nah, krap !

Excellent comments (SHOCHU's words in his post where excellent as well) , and almost exactly what I have experienced myself as an European in my more than 20 visits or long-stays to Malaysia.

one correction: you get 90 days stamped in your passport, (actually its not even a VISA), not only 30, at least most Europeans get that...... so no ridiculous VISA-TRIPS every 30 days (yeah I know, they are soon history anyway....hehehe ).

when I decided to move to Asia, I did choose Thailand only because it was rather uncomplicated to secure a long-stay-business-VISA and set-up a small LTD. - company.

for Malaysia the matter its quite difficult if u r under 50 and not extremely well-off. and they dont want the small businesses, they r only eager to get the BIG investments....

though, I still expect myself retiring in Malaysia (SABAH, negeri sayang) rather than in Thailand. but u never know..... as it has been said here b4 many times: both countries have their good and bad parts (as do all countries in the world.....)

anyway, nice to see a good discussion here based on facts and respecting each others, not just a bashing and flaming....

Edited March 4, 2007 by THAILIBAN

[thai_narak]

Once a muslim, forever a muslim. No way out

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

In my humble opinion this is the same for the roman catholics,you become catholic by christening and there no sacrament to change this.

this is not only true but horrifying...

[redrus]

Once a muslim, forever a muslim. No way out

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

In my humble opinion this is the same for the roman catholics,you become catholic by christening and there no sacrament to change this.

this is not only true but horrifying...

Hands up to convert then.? No, no.........! Ok then....

redrus

[baboon]

I dont pretend to be an expert on Malaysia, but I have always found the Muslims there {Penang, KL} to be very friendly and tolerant towards non Muslims. Pop into a 7-11 to buy a basket full of beers and the young [Muslim] woman serving will not give you funny looks; indeed if she is not too busy will be quite pleased to have a chat. I have even sat in Muslim restaraunts conversing with Muslim men who have no objection whatsoever to my drinking alcohol. They were amazed to hear about the segragation in the U.K, saying if you are not sticking their [Malay] faces by force into your culture or habits, fine, do what you like.

[Kismet]

A point of clarification.

Muslim shops and muslim eating places are strictly prohibited to sell beer and liqueur.

Beer and liqueur (brandy, whisky, wine) are only sold in Chinese and Indian shops

and other non- muslim eating places. In super markets, like Tessco, and etc, special

shop location is set up to sell beer and liqueur. That special counters would be managed

by non-muslim staff. That includes pork.

If you want to drink beer or liqueur, it is advisable to go to the Chinese restaurants, or

other non-mulim eating places. There are so many Chinese coffee shops, bars, if you want to

have a cold beer. The number of Chinese restaurants, eating shops, and coffee shops

would out number the muslim shops by ten to one. Bty, the Chinese enjoy eating out

most of the time. Out of respect, I would not like to drink beer in front of my Malay friends.

With my Chinese friends, we would eat and drink, till the cows come home..... so to speak.

Choke di nah, krap ! Sawatdi krap !

[BKKGIRL95]

I am BKKGIRL95's BF and I lived in Malaysia for a whole misreable year. I have to tell you vacations are fine in Malaysia and can be more than that they can be quite nice.

I think that many people here have not really lived in Malaysia. I am not wealthy I had to live among the Malaysians and I have to tell you the Bumis suck. We hate them. Simple as that ;they are fully controled by thier religion and use it as an excuse to do what ever they like to non-muslims. They are very hypocrtical most drink, gamble, and frequent prostitutes.

I used to live right next to Glen Eagles Hospital on Ampang. We had the worst time with the Mat Rampets(motorcycle gangs). Many evenings after 12 am they would come to this area to drink, take drugs and race. I called the police many times and would get hung up on, they were either frightened or didn't care. I believe that this area is inbetween two police stations and niether would enforce.

The first time that I was awoke from the screams and the engines reving I went outside to see my security gaurds hudled in thier post to scared to move. They told me to go back inside as I may get hurt. I went inside and called the police and after being hung up on, transfered and the like I gave up. This was a Tuesday and I had to work the next day.

Later I was told that they carry "parangs" or machetes and would not hesitate to use them.

I would then monitor the news and found that people getting slashed by parangs was a common thing more common than the paper would even report.

Another lovley past time for the Muslim malays is rape they like nothing better to meet or kidnap a woman and take them to a secluded spot to rape them. Unfortunatley they would not rape them once and leave they would keep thier victim and invite friends and realitives to join in on the raping. A favorite victim was fair skinned Chinese girls, but hey who cares they are only non-muslims sluts right?

Malaysia makes me sick and I truly feel for my Chinese and Indian friends who have to live among these animals!

[redrus]

Every job application I have filled out in the UK over the last 6 years, has asked me my ethnic background....!

redrus

That's strange. As far as I know it's against the EU rules (human rights). After all it is about skills and not about race.

My government -EU- is even running television commercials against job application name-racism.

But I have -sadly- to say that racism exists also in my country.

LaoPo

Mate, I know what you're saying.

They don't word it like that though.

"Just for our records, our Human Resources department would like to know from what ethnic background you come from....?"

Everyone now fella, asks the same....!

redrus

[jamman]

Another lovley past time for the Muslim malays is rape they like nothing better to meet or kidnap a woman and take them to a secluded spot to rape them. Unfortunatley they would not rape them once and leave they would keep thier victim and invite friends and realitives to join in on the raping. A favorite victim was fair skinned Chinese girls, but hey who cares they are only non-muslims sluts right?

Malaysia makes me sick and I truly feel for my Chinese and Indian friends who have to live among these animals!

Now one may better understand my stance on libido. Repress it, and it will only come out ugly.

Public sex, people, public sex. At the very least, some racy clothes. At the very least, no legal sanctions about what consenting adults do. There is no way, there has never been a way, to repress libido without repressing life force and making life less lively and good. I have a very strong suspicion that rape is more common in Muslim countries - thus have I heard.

[shochu]

BKKGIRL95's BF

I never knew it was so bad. I did see some of it near where my friend was staying west of Bangsar, west of where the MRT runs up, but I never felt threatened by it, but then again I never walked by at night.

THAILIBAN

What I said earlier about Malaysia was probably a bit unfair. I know many people who love malaysia. I think if you are retired, or if you have a good group of friends, then Malaysia is a great place to be. And if you like golf, and watching sports on the telly. Unfortunately for me, I love art and going to galleries, watching good foreign movies, which I can do in BKK whenever I'm there. Just saw Nadou SouSou, and The LIves of Others. I could never do this in KL. I think what it boils down to is that KL is a small city , like an extended suburb to me, whereas BKK is a large international city, where I can see good movies, experience good culture and do many other things. (Not saying that ML has no culture, there just seems to be more in TH in my opinion) When I was in KL, all we ever did was go to one of the Finnegans and drink and talk, or watch sports. Great if that's what your into. I felt safe and. The only thing that irriated me was trying to get taxis.

And talking about RELIGON - I think this is becoming a bigger issue than we realize. Just read an article in the current issue of TIME mag and it was talking about how Indonesia was moving away from secularism and becoming very strict, and also mentioned Malaysia moving this way too. This is a crtitical time in both these countries directions and they are both at a tipping point. The can either move back to a more moderate form, or they will go extreme. To me this is a big issue in where I choose to live, along with the other things already mentioned.

I actually looked at Indonesia because this was the one country that I felt was really still primordial in feeling. It had a romantic feel to it when you were out in the countryside looking off at the distance at a smoldering volcano. It had all the right ingredients such as a developing nation with abundant labor, abundant natural resources, etc. and many possibilities. BUT, there were too many buts, the biggest one being political instability of whcih religion was a major part.

Philippines was also a consideration, but just too dangerous and they seem stuck in perpetual mud so to speak. I don't know what catholism has done to the people there, but it isn't good.

No matter how we look at it RELIGION plays a big part in developing countires and I personally love the Buddhist nature of Thailand.

The world is on the verge of rebalancing and there will be extreme shocks to the system. Not just fincancial. Western economies have to come down, developing ones will move up to meet somehwere at an equilibrium. Thailand is my bet. I don't plan on staying here full time. But I do plan to invest here. I think I will win in the long run, even if I suffer in the short. We all have to take chances. I will put my money here. Or at least some of it. I'm hedging my bets.

In the end, Thailand is the place to be. Great city, good country and they have all the things that matter. Irregardless of what you think about their politics, they are still under this military rule much freer than say China or Singapore. Have been to both and I could not live in either. Give the country time - every country goes through pangs and this is a rite of passage they too must go through. Sure it's not perfect, but then if home was perfect you wouldn't be in, or coming to Thaliand.

Cheers

[Kismet]

South of the Border.

95% of Kelantan's population are ethnic Malay, and under the Malaysian Constitution, all Malays are Muslims; therefore, Islam is the most influential religion in the state.

This Kelantan State is just next door to the Southern States of Thailand and they are of the same race and they speak the same Malay language and culture.

Most importantly, they have very close family ties with the Thai southerners...... same race, same religion, same culture, and speaks the same language.

At present, they control the State Government of Kelantan, the most under developed state in the whole nation. They won the State Legislature by a majority of only one or two

members.

They are trying their level best to introduce Islamic laws in Kelantan. However Federal laws over ride them. But they have the State Legislature to introduce certain moral laws.

Laws like...... muslim women must cover their face, no sexy dress, separate counters for women in super markets, separate seating in cinema halls, buses, stadiums,

etc, and close proximity (if not married) is an offence, and other form of moral behaviour.

Lately they even warn the Chinese and other non-muslim women in Kelantan to dress properly.... not too revealing or sexy and so on.

Of course, the Opposition parties, particularly, the Chinese base party told them to piss off. " How we dress is non of your business "

and told them to back off. After that, they back off.

The next State election is rumoured to be end of this year, or by latest end of 2008. It would be a very close fight between the ultras and the moderates.

[duke69]

As an aside, here are a few details on the situation I mentioned earlier:

Here's a section of the Langkawi incident:

"On Oct 12, Barnhart, 62, and his wife Carole, 61, were in their rented condominium in Kuah when enforcement officers continuously knocked on their door at 2am, accusing them of committing khalwat (close proximity).

He said the officers demanded to see his marriage certificate, although he had told them that they were Christians and should not be subjected to Islamic law......" (for full article -pls refer to MM2H section).

My questions:

1. Does Khalwat have jurisdiction over foreigners living here

2. If a foreigner who is a Muslim and his/her spouse is a Non-Muslim Malaysian, would the Foreign Muslim spouse be targeted by the Religious Police as having committed Khalwat because spouse is not a Muslim

(I asked this because I have a couple friend from the UK, the husband is thinking of applying for MM2H - the wife is still Malaysian, but the husband is a foreigner who is a "non-practising Muslim. I'm just worried for them incase they come here and get into such awful troubles).

So, if your taste in ladies is for darker skin then definitely stay in Thailand or you could be charged, beaten or goodness knows what else.

As for Lao Po . . . agreed, Thailand is easily one of the most difficult places to do business . . . at least in Malaysia you know up front who to bribe, and he will be a Malay.

Another point to this - you wish to have a company that could possibly deal with the government in any way? You must have a Malay GM and pay him accordingly. There are scores of Malays who do nothing but lend their name to companies for their letterhead . . . and you have to pay them well . . .

Malaysia better than Thailand?

SETTING UP BIZ THAILAND IS EASIER THAN MALAYSIA?????

You're kidding isn't it? In Thai I need to pay 5-6 nominees and in theory the company is not mine, nominal shareholders are becoming a big problem for all foreign owned companies, we are everyday threatened and cheated by PWC, KPMG, E&Y which are criminal organization rather than consultants!!!!!

In Malaysia I did open a Sdn Bhd with 2 Rm (half us$) equity and 99 of shares uner my name!!! Trading company.

If I want to open a trading company in MY to trade outside Malaysia (buy and sell outside Malaysia) I have tghe Labuan option (Labuan offshore company) which is totally legal and not blacklisted in many EU countries!!!!

To audit a Thai company is 5000 us$ to audit a Malaysian company is 500 us$!!!

All laws and company regulations are in english, in thai I need to have a translator. In Gov offices in Malaysia I always find officers with a quite good english, in Gov offices in Thailand I never found anybody to say more than "ne no spik ingliz".

Revenue dept in Malaysia is 50% currupted, in thailand is a lottery, you can end up cheated, screwed, kicked, threatened, ....... totally unpredictable.

Laws in Thailand are applyed in a unequal way, in MY much better.

I feel that doing biz in Thai is a short term approach, till something gets wrong and then re-register a new company, in MY is long term and you can operate easily.

Not to mention the availability of professionals in MY uncomparable to thailan where also a crappy english speaking secretary can change company and double her salary in 1 year time

[duke69]

A point of clarification.

Muslim shops and muslim eating places are strictly prohibited to sell beer and liqueur.

Beer and liqueur (brandy, whisky, wine) are only sold in Chinese and Indian shops

and other non- muslim eating places. In super markets, like Tessco, and etc, special

shop location is set up to sell beer and liqueur. That special counters would be managed

by non-muslim staff. That includes pork.

If you want to drink beer or liqueur, it is advisable to go to the Chinese restaurants, or

other non-mulim eating places. There are so many Chinese coffee shops, bars, if you want to

have a cold beer. The number of Chinese restaurants, eating shops, and coffee shops

would out number the muslim shops by ten to one. Bty, the Chinese enjoy eating out

most of the time. Out of respect, I would not like to drink beer in front of my Malay friends.

With my Chinese friends, we would eat and drink, till the cows come home..... so to speak.

Choke di nah, krap ! Sawatdi krap !

this is one of the most stupid and racist comments I've ever heard, mods here send PM messages to members (me included) for a joke or humour threatening to BAN me, then they leave people to post crap like this and like much more I recently saw on TV.

What's going on here!!!

I don't care which is better between MY or TH, I believe we should respect every country and every religion, don't tell me that the good Buddist Thai are not rapist,,,,,,,,,,,having thousands of brothels fully booked with Thai men all over Thailand is not making them better,,,,,,,,Thai, Laos, Cambodian, Burmese gals who have to be prostitute to survive, are like a RAPE

so pls don't preach, I do believe that no Thai can preach other people what is good, bad, clean or dirty, just look at the mess is Thaialnd in these days and the future ,,,,,,,,,, I'd rather raise my family and invest my money in MY than in Thai.

[bannork]

A point of clarification.

Muslim shops and muslim eating places are strictly prohibited to sell beer and liqueur.

Beer and liqueur (brandy, whisky, wine) are only sold in Chinese and Indian shops

and other non- muslim eating places. In super markets, like Tessco, and etc, special

shop location is set up to sell beer and liqueur. That special counters would be managed

by non-muslim staff. That includes pork.

If you want to drink beer or liqueur, it is advisable to go to the Chinese restaurants, or

other non-mulim eating places. There are so many Chinese coffee shops, bars, if you want to

have a cold beer. The number of Chinese restaurants, eating shops, and coffee shops

would out number the muslim shops by ten to one. Bty, the Chinese enjoy eating out

most of the time. Out of respect, I would not like to drink beer in front of my Malay friends.

With my Chinese friends, we would eat and drink, till the cows come home..... so to speak.

Choke di nah, krap ! Sawatdi krap !

this is one of the most stupid and racist comments I've ever heard, mods here send PM messages to members (me included) for a joke or humour threatening to BAN me, then they leave people to post crap like this and like much more I recently saw on TV.

What's going on here!!!

I don't care which is better between MY or TH, I believe we should respect every country and every religion, don't tell me that the good Buddist Thai are not rapist,,,,,,,,,,,having thousands of brothels fully booked with Thai men all over Thailand is not making them better,,,,,,,,Thai, Laos, Cambodian, Burmese gals who have to be prostitute to survive, are like a RAPE

so pls don't preach, I do believe that no Thai can preach other people what is good, bad, clean or dirty, just look at the mess is Thaialnd in these days and the future ,,,,,,,,,, I'd rather raise my family and invest my money in MY than in Thai.

Ah, with that avatar of yours you've got to feel a lot safer in Malaysia, providing you avoid the Indian or Chinese areas!

[jamman]

this is one of the most stupid and racist comments I've ever heard...

...don't tell me that the good Buddist Thai are not rapist,,,,,,,,,,,having thousands of brothels fully booked with Thai men all over Thailand is not making them better,,,,,,,,Thai, Laos, Cambodian, Burmese gals who have to be prostitute to survive, are like a RAPE

So you are saying that unforced prostitution is the same as rape? Hmm, the prostitutes I slept with seemed rather cheerful about it. I suggest that you categorize your ideas a bit more distinctly, as muddling up ideas makes for confused communication and ineffective thinking.

[micky]

From a foreign news report: The Moorthy Story

December 1, 2006

Malaysia: Islamist Courts Win Fight Over Corpse

A year ago, an undignified battle took place over the mortal remains of a Hindu mountaineering hero, Lt Corporal Moorthy. The case highlighted the contradictions in Malaysia's constitution, and how, despite its claims to be a moderate Muslim nation, Malaysia is an authoritarian Islamist state, where Islam comes before all else, including the rights of its non-Muslim minorities.

Lt Corporal Moorthy had been on the first Malaysian team to reach the summit of Everest in 1997, and had been regarded as a national hero, even though he was a Hindu. In 1998 Moorthy was injured in a training exercise, which paralyzed him. Last year, he fell from his wheelchair and lapsed into a coma.

While 36-year old Moorthy was in his coma, army colleagues then told the authorities that the former mountaineer had secretly converted to Islam a year earlier. As a result, when Moorthy died in December, the Islamic Affairs Department claimed custody of his body, saying that he was to be buried as a Muslim.

Kaliammal Moorthy went to the High Court to claim rights over her husband's body, desiring to have him buried according to Hindu custom. She told the court that he drank alcohol and took part in Hindu festivals, and had never converted to Islam.

The judge, Justice Mohammed Raus Sharif, told Kaliammal that he had no power to act against the Islamic authorities. An amendment had been made to the Constitution in 1988, to the effect that Article 121 (1A) now states that civil courts have no jurisdiction on "any matter" which falls within the jurisdiction of the Syariah (Islamic) courts.

As a result, on December 28, 2005, Moorthy's body was taken by the Islamic Affairs Department, washed, wrapped and buried with Muslim rites. His widow was not present at the funeral.

All citizens of Malaysia are obliged to carry a card which denotes their ethnic and religious status. This card, called MyKad is issued to people when they are 12 years old. Because of the racial apartheid practiced in Malaysia, all ethnic Malays are registered as "Muslims". All the details on the MyKad, including non-Muslims' conversion to Islam, are recorded by the National Registration Department.

At no stage had Moorthy registered with the National Registration Department that he had converted to Islam, and at no point during the proceedings of either the Sharia court or the High Court did the Islamic Affairs Department produce any documentary evidence to prove their case that Moorthy had converted. Based upon a rumor, and nothing more, Kaliammal's claims were ignored and overridden.

The case sparked a national scandal. When it was widely reported in the international press, deputy prime minister Najib Tun Razak tried to make amends to Mrs Moorthy. In January 2006, Razak gave Lt Corporal Moorthy a promotion to the rank of Sarjan (Sergeant) backdated to June 2005. As defense minister, Razak's move was honored by the military, and allowed Mrs Moorthy increased widow's benefits.

At the recent 57th annual congress of the ruling party, UMNO, which has ruled in coalition governments continuously since Malaysia's independence of August 31, 1957, some party members threatened violence against non-Muslims who did not accept the policy of "ketuanan Melayu", the "Malay agenda". This doctrine states that the Malay people, who are all regarded as "Muslim", are the original and defining populace of Malaya, and thus should have special status and privileges.

Though UMNO promotes another doctrine of "Islam Hadhari" or "civilizational Islam", it supports the discrimination against non-Muslims, and the contradictions in the constitution which forbid anyone from converting out of Islam. Article 3(1) of the Constitution indicates that 'other religions (apart from Islam) may be practiced in peace and harmony in any part of the Federation. Article 11 gives citizens the right to profess and practise any religion they choose, even though Article 121 (1A) dictates that civil courts have no jurisdiction on "any matter" which comes under the ruling of the Islamic Courts.

Issues of changing one's faith out of Islam falls under the terms of the Syariah or Islamic Courts. Even though a person may claim under Article 11 that they can profess any religion of their choosing, the National Registration Department refuses to acknowledge anyone's conversion unless it has been approved by the Islamic Courts.

And so far, in 49 years of independence from British rule, there has not been a single case of anyone being allowed by these courts to officially apostasize, or renounce their claim to be Muslim. The only person ever to be allowed to convert out of Islam was only granted this privilege AFTER she had died.

Nyonya Tahir (pictured top right), an 89 year old Buddhist woman, died on Thursday, January 19 this year. During her life, Nyonya had appealed to the National Registration Department repeatedly to have her designation as "Muslim" removed from her MyKad. She was an ethnic Malay. Ethnic Malays comprise 50.8% of the population, but because of the religious and racist apartheid of Malaysia's NRD, she was automatically classed as a Muslim. She had become a Buddhist when she married a Chinese man in 1936.

When Nyonya's family tried to have her buried as a Buddhist, the Syariah courts commandeered her body. For the first time in recorded history, the Islamic courts heard evidence from Buddhists - two of Nyonya's children. Finally, on January 23, the Sharia court allowed Mrs Tahir to be buried as a Buddhist.

Muhamad Burok, president of the Malaysian Syariah Lawyers Association dishonestly stated: "It shows that our two court systems - the Civil Court and Syariah Court - can exist in harmony, so the issue that the Constitution should be amended does not arise. The decision shows that everyone can get protection from all the courts."

Once more, the issue of Malaysia's Islamofascist policies has been in the national media, and once again, it involves the undignified spectacle of the Islamic courts holding a tug of war over a dead body, in defiance of the wishes of the deceased's relatives.

This time, the subject of the dispute is a Christian, 71 year old Rayappan Anthony, who had lived at Shah Alam, Selangor state. He died in Kuala Lumpur Hospital on Wednesday, November 29, as a result of complications, arising from his diabetes. There was chaos in the hospital morgue as the two factions of the family and the representatives of the Selangor Islamic Religious Department claimed rights to the corpse. The family demanded rights to have their relative buried as a Christian, while the Islamists insisted that Rayyapan was a Muslim.

For a day, the body remained in the morgue as the factions argued. A lawyer for the deceased's family, A. Sivesan, said that Rayappan had embraced Islam on January 20, 1990. He had become a Muslim in order to marry an Indian Muslim wife. (Under Malaysia's religious apartheid, a non-Muslim man and a Muslim woman are legally prevented from marrying). Rayappan had changed his name to a Muslim one - Muhammad Rayappan Abdullah.

Sivanesan said on Thursday, November 30, at the morgue: "But after about eight years of being a Muslim, Rayappan decided to return to his family and applied to renounce the faith." Sivenesan said that Rayappan had made a sworn declaration before a Commissioner for Oaths to renounce Islam, but had not submitted the letter until the day he died.

On May 10 1999, Sivenasan claimed, Rayappan applied to the National Registration Department (NRD) by submitting his sworn declaration. He had been issued with a new MyKad, which was under his non-Muslim name, Rayappan Anthony.

Sivenesan said that he had spoken to officials from the Selangor Islamic Religious Department on the morning of Thursday, November 30, and had handed to them all the legal documentation from the NRD. He said that the issue would be taken to the Syariah (Sharia) Court on Friday, December 1.

Rayappan's daughter, 42-year old Jaymarie said that her father had stopped being a Muslim when he went back to his Christian family and his former wife, her 65-year old mother M. Lourdesmary, in 1999. She said: "We hope we can claim the body amicably and our lawyer has given all the documents to JAIS (Selangor Islamic Religious Department, also called MAIS)."

So on Friday (today), the issue was adjudicated upon by the Islamic court of Shah Alam. As a result, the court has predictably ruled that former van-driver Rayappan is a Muslim, even though he had officially proclaimed himself to be no longer a follower of the faith.

At Shah Alam Syariah Court the Sharia High Court judge, Abu Zaky Mohammad, ruled that the body should be buried according to Muslim tradition. Juraish Kamaruddin had produced documents to support the claim that Rayappan had embraced Islam.

Apparently ignoring the documents from lawyer A. Sivenesan, which claimed that Rayappan had renounced his embrace of Islam, Abu Zaky Mohammad considered the issues during a closed hearing which lasted 55 minutes. He ruled that only on Monday, December 4, can the body of Rayappan be claimed by JAIS. (This is because the order was issued in a different state, the Federal Territory of Kuala Lumpur, and each state has its own Syariah rules).

Lawyer A Sivenesan announced that the family will be filing a civil suit in the High Court at Wisna Denmark on Monday.

A spokesman for the Selangor Islamic Religious Department said that the family could be allowed to hold last rites for Rayappan, in accordance with their Catholic faith.

He said: "There have been previous cases on special request where the council allowed the family of deceased converts to perform last rites according to their own beliefs, provided they promised to surrender the body to us to be buried according to Muslim rites. In Rayappan's case, we are also open to negotiation."

The family's civil suit will ultimately be rejected by the High Court as, according to Article 121 (1A) of the Constitution, civil courts have no jurisdiction on "any matter" which comes under the ruling of the Islamic Courts. But at least their case will further draw attention to the religious apartheid and social injustice which proliferates in Malaysia.

[pampal]

I have spent alot of time in both Thailand and Malaysia.

they both have their good and bad points.

Malaysia has a more laid back lifestyle and I never had any problems like some of the other ppl on this thread.

Malays were always nice and helpfull to me.

Thailand is more chaotic and more ups and downs with a better nightlife.

It's up in the air as to which one is better, but it's definitely easier to do business in Malaysia as people mostly speak decent english as opposed to Thailand where most people can only say "Where you go mister".

[astral]

I believe the term was translated from Thai, not bahasa malayu.

Right!!

As for swimming rules and regs, two states still have it in their statutes that men and women are not allowed to use the same pool at the same time.

Yup, the Thailand-expats would just love Malaysia!

Not many Malay women would grace the pool anyway.

If they do they are fully dressed.

[shochu]

Kismet,

Your posts are very informative and greatly appreciated by some of us. It is always good to learn more about a country/region. My comments are how I see things and i always appreciate other peoples thoughts and perspectives. Soemtimes one has to post their views, to get a dialogue going to expound on a subject. This forum is very useful as a tool to gather information and to better understand things which we do not.

Regarding ease of doing business - I think it depends on what kind of business one is doing. The statements I have made are my thoughts regarding my interests - and - Thailand is far better for doing business - for me. I am in fact betting my money, not all of it, but a part of it on it. I have yet to make a bad investment. But, then again there is the possibility for a first time. Time will tell.

Malaysia is in fact losing much of their manufacturing to vietnam as we speak. The vietnamese are better, faster, smarter and most improtant work hard. The real engine of growth for ML has always been it natural resources of which oil plays a large part. Have you ever gone to the KLCC to hear the national ML orchestra. It is made up of europeans and a few chinese malay. Dr. M built his airport out in the boondocks thinking KL would grow out to the airport within ten years and we are now coming up on the ten years. Fly through the airport and it feels empty. Their national car the proton is a disaster. There is just as much, if not more corruction in ML. A great country to retire in, but unstable politics, and the possibility for extreme radical islam, a multi-ethnic population that only tolerates each other, and without much of a future when their natural resources dwindle.

And it depends on the company one keeps when it comes to communication. The people I deal with and hang around with are educated and all speak fluent english. And I find that many thais in bangkok speak enough to commuunicate.

have a nice day, or at least try to!

[Kismet]

Shochu,

Thank you very much for your kind comments.

I am so glad that you do appreciate my posts.

Once again, Khap Khon, mak mak.

Choke di nah, krap. Sawatdi.

With best regards,

kismet.

[micky]

New Straits Times (Malaysia) 8-3-2007.

Thai with buckshot wounds detained

08 Mar 2007

ALOR STAR: A Thai volunteer policeman was shot while searching for wild rattan at a forest reserve in Bukit Kayu Hitam near here yesterday.

The incident took place about 3km inside the Malaysian border.

Wilkorn Chuthong, 34, from Nawi, Thailand, was believed to have entered the forest with two friends, when he was injured by six buckshots in his chest, stomach and thighs.

Padang Terap police chief Superintendent Hamzan Darus said the incident occured at 5.30pm and the injured man walked a kilometre to a timber kongsi for help.

From there, two timber workers took him to the Kuala Nerang Hospital.

When his condition worsened, he was later transferred to Alor Star Hospital.

Hamzan said the man had been remanded for illegal entry into the country.

"He was carrying a Thai volunteer police identity card on him.

"He claimed that he was searching for wild rattan with two other friends.

"The friends have returned to Thailand. We want to know why he was here and if he was on duty. We’ve informed Interpol and Thai police of the incident," he said.

[Phuketti]

Hi all,

I am debating wether or not to settle in Malaysia under MMSH, or settle in Thailand.

I am curious to know if some of you have have lived in both places, or have debated the same thing, and what you believe would be the significant "pluses" and "negatives" of each place.

thanks.

OK, you asked so here goes .....

I've been in Thai-Lie-Land for over a year and have come to the conclusion that this is an extremely bigoted, racist culture. Every time I'm called " Farang," I cringe as I know this is used in exactly the same way as a very rude word used in the West for dark skinned people. A seething hatred of " Farang" is rampant , in fact I believe it is taught in school.

As a woman I don't have two-faced " Bar-Girls" sucking up to me or shall I say, lubricating my way, so I really feel the sting of discrimination in every outing from my house. Sitting at a traffic light - " Farang!" Walking into a store, someone will comment, " Farang!"

But it is never said to your face.

Racism against lower income foreigners is actually legislated.

Burmese construction worker are not allowed to drive cars, own cell phones or be out after 8 PM.

http://phuketgazette.net/news/index.asp?id=5528

Can you believe that? Someone needs to get the UN involved on this issue.

To say that Thai people are stupid is to do a diservice to stupid people all over the world. Along with the unbelievable two-facedness of these people, they suffer fromwhat I call No Concept of Future, NCF.

It's apparent everywhere. See the man unloading his truck on the street, no thought at all to the cars passing at 45 mph inches away from him. See the woman with her 3 year old clutching his 2 other siblings on a motorcycle...

I'm quite attractive, can still turn heads at age 45 with a minimal preparation and would sure like to meet a man near my own age but forget it, there are so many prostitutes here. I haven't had a date in a year now except with a Thai man who took me to a three hour "Whiskey circle". What fun!!

However, I notice that the foreign men here flocking here are no prize and are only coming here for the main commodity Thailand has to offer, which cheap, easy sex, so I guess it is no loss for me.

Still it would be nice to at least SEE some foreign men that I think are attractive. ( Well, OK there is one..)There are attractive Thai men but they all seem to be either 20 or 60 and will expect you to clean up after their whiskey circles.

It took me a while to get it that lying is the way here in Thai- Lie- Land , it's your responsibility to make sure people stay honest-if they get over on you, good for them-no one cares.

It seems to be especially OK, even admirable- to screw " Farang" over ....

There was a new internet service offered through an " Air Card" Like a cell phone for your computer. Having read rave reviews I went to a Tech. Mall to purchase it. Nope.. You must have a work permit even though I have a perfectly legitimate visa.

This was purely to discriminate against foreigners...

Inconsiderate doesn't begin to describe their so called "Manners."

It is 8 AM and I've been listening to the same Karaoke song since 6:30, emanating from a house 200 meters away at a volume so loud I cannot have a phone conversation within my own house. This goes on pretty much every day. When the rest of the neighborhood stirs I'll be listening to 3-4, maybe 5 different stereos.

I'm residing in Thai-Lie-land under an Investor visa which requires 3 million baht in a fixed bank account.

I went to the bank the Friday before just before Christmas to withdraw 6 million baht from a different account as after the 30% withholding fiasco, I'd decided that, at 2 weeks of age, Thai-Lie-Land's government was too immature and reactionary to trust with my money.

It took me 3 hours. I was there 2 hours after closing and only finally got an international draft because I refused to leave.

I had the proper forms alright but the portion asking about import, export funds I had marked N/A as I am not going to run any kind of business. The bank manager should have corrected it when I first deposited the funds. A young woman at the main Siam Commercial Bank in Phuket Town asked me very personal questions about my money such as did I have receipts for purchases and unbelievably, just where did

I, " Get the funds initially?" " Your amount of money, it's too much for a tourist .." she stated while on the phone with BOT( Bank of Thailand)

"Well, if you'd look at my passport, (although it really isn't any of your business, ) "you'll see I have a " B" business visa.

Well where's your work permit, then?" As if she's an immigration official.

But , In Thai-Lie-Land I guess she is.

However I don't have such a permit. I'm not allowed to work as far as I know.

But I really don't know anything as I wasn't told anything.

Am I supposed to register my address? Immigration, in their ridiculous militararistic uniforms, tell you nothing.

I fully expect my application for the yearly renewal to be withheld next September unless I repeat my performance with an expensive lawyer as I did with the "extension."

The initial investor's visa , 1200 Baht , was initially granted for 90 days. It took another 20,000 to get it extended for 9 months, a full year.

A woman at Phuket immigration actually recommended I get married to a Thai man. Oh yeah, and get murdered for my savings? No thanks.

All the businesses , lawyers, restaurants, etc. run by foreigners have as employees, grossly incompetent Thai women that are the owner's girlfriends. I had a high dollar lawyer's office-manager give me totally erroneous information which caused a house sale to collapse. The most expensive, nicest restaurants you have to chase down the server to get another drink... Oh, on and on and on...

You can forget about using the title Ms.

I got a driver's license and Mrs. was put on it and now I have to explain constantly I've never been married and cannot produce a marriage certificate or divorce papers.

Infuriating.

Thai's are all about appearance. They may live in a tin shack but will have the latest model car and it will be shiny clean. Their clothing too is always neat in appearance and clean yet they'll eat 2 inches off the sidewalk and think nothing of sticking viral infected fingers way up into their nostrils. They routinely throw garbage from their cars and will burn plastic refuse in front of your home if the wind is blowing away from theirs. Having absolutely no regard for the environment, there are no laws requiring them to do otherwise.

Ugh, and then there's how horses are treated in Thailand . I took many many pics of the pony rental/torture stable where I rescued my horses from. Pictures that would make you sick and cry, but am afraid to send them to the paper as I may find myself on the business end of a shotgun. After I leave though...

So , unless you are a sexually unattractive man who can't find women ( or men, or children, or hamsters...) in your own country, I'd say, STAY AWAY from Thailand, it has very little to offer socially.

The people are beyond horrible.

On the plus side , it is beautiful and the food, fruits and vegetables are of excellent quality and cheap.