฿65K Visa Requirement - Best Method To Transfer Money

[Laza 45]

On 2/2/2019 at 1:20 PM, jackdd said:

Transfers through Bangkok Bank's New York branch will stop working soon, Transferwise might not show up as transfer from abroad, so it looks like the only reliable choice is to make a wire transfer.

You should look for a bank which doesn't charge you 40USD for the transfer.

Oh... I was just thinking of using Transferwise..  same story for Bhat Smart?.. do you know?  Thanks for heads up..

[baggies666]

41 minutes ago, graemeaylward said:

It would appear, that provided the 65,000 baht per month transfer shows up on your bank statement as an international transfer in, there is no requirement to show whether these funds are pension or return from investments! But who knows at the individual IO might require! We live in exciting times

Sent from my X98 Plus II (C2D6) using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Thanks, I think since I have a 3 months left will look more into the 65k route 

[wwest5829]

I can tell you what I have been using for the last 7 years and my monthly transfers continue. My SS goes into my Fidelity account. My transfer equates to my SS, matched with an equal amount from my Fidelity funds. I have set up an automatic Electronic Funds Transfer to  Bangkok Bank NYC Branch (a registered US bank). Fidelity hits me for a $10 fee and Bangkok Bank hits me for another $6 fee. The funds are available here in Thailand in 2 business days (normally). No muss no fuss no bother.

Edited February 4, 2019 by wwest5829

[atyclb]

out of curiosity what is fee if one uses paypal to send money from abroad to thai bank ?? 

[mlmcleod]

This entire conversation is nonsense.  If our governments would just document our pensions and issue the income letter all of this would be moot.

 

I suggest contacting your home politicians and to ask for action.

[AAArdvark]

2 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

I can tell you what I have been using for the last 7 years and my monthly transfers continue. My SS goes into my Fidelity account. My transfer equates to my SS, matched with an equal amount from my Fidelity funds. I have set up an automatic Electronic Funds Transfer to  Bangkok Bank NYC Branch (a registered US bank). Fidelity hits me for a $10 fee and Bangkok Bank hits me for another $6 fee. The funds are available here in Thailand in 2 business days (normally). No muss no fuss no bother.

And as previously mentioned, the ability to use the NY Bangkok Bank will probably stop working in April.  You need to check with Fidelity to see if they are or will be using the correct coding.

[AAArdvark]

One thing to keep in mind is that we don't really know yet how or if Thai immigration checks for foreign deposits.  IMO, they won't check for anything other than the amount of 65K being deposited monthly.  I just don't think they will be looking at codes and even if they did they may or may not care if say 10 out of 12 are coded for foreign and the other 2 are domestic.  This, as well as the new 800/400 thing are codified but we just don't know yet how they will manage these new rules.  It will take experience and people reporting.

Edited February 4, 2019 by AAArdvark
typo

[Thomas J]

40 minutes ago, mlmcleod said:

This entire conversation is nonsense.  If our governments would just document our pensions and issue the income letter all of this would be moot.

 

I suggest contacting your home politicians and to ask for action.

I differ with you.  It is the Thai government who is mandating the verification of income.  Why should any government use its embassy officials to facilitate the laws of another country.  Particularly one that allows their citizens to retire to another country.  Whether you live in the U.K., USA, Canada, Germany, or anyplace else numbers are numbers.  The Thai government accepts translations on other documents.  Why shouldn't Thailands Immigration be the party responsible for receiving certified translated bank documents attesting to that persons monthly income.  Heck, a certified copy of a persons tax return would be a slam dunk as to the person annual income.  

[Suradit69]

On February 2, 2019 at 1:20 PM, jackdd said:

Transfers through Bangkok Bank's New York branch will stop working soon, Transferwise might not show up as transfer from abroad, so it looks like the only reliable choice is to make a wire transfer.

You should look for a bank which doesn't charge you 40USD for the transfer.

I've now switched from doing ACH transfers via Bangkok Bank New York to having my broker send SWIFT transfers, but I directed my broker to use Bangkok Bank New York as the correspondent bank. 

 

For transfers around $2000 under both methods Bangkok Bank Ny charges me $5 and Bangkok Bank Thailand charges 200 baht. Don't recall the charges for amounts over $2000, but it's not much more.

 

your US bank's charges can vary considerably. My broker did the ACH transfer for free and charges $10 for the Swift transfer. If your bank needs to use a correspondent bank and they make the choice of which bank to use, that could make the transfer more expensive.

 

you never would have opened an account at BB New York. Your transfers are directed to the Bangkok Bank account number that you already have in Thailand.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Suradit69

[wpcoe]

On 2/4/2019 at 12:49 PM, Suradit69 said:

I've now switched from doing ACH transfers via Bangkok Bank New York to having my broker send SWIFT transfers, but I directed my broker to use Bangkok Bank New York as the correspondent bank. 

I keep getting confused, so please bear with me: Your broker does a SWIFT transfer to Bangkok Bank New York, essentially a domestic (US) bank?  Or, does your broker permit you to specify the intermediary bank on an international SWIFT transfer?  I'm not clear what "the correspondent bank" means in this case...

 

My only experience with SWIFT transfers was with my US credit union before I switched to the Bangkok Bank system, and on the credit union SWIFT application form there was no place to specify a desired intermediary bank.

[Thomas J]

On 2/4/2019 at 12:49 PM, Suradit69 said:

I've now switched from doing ACH transfers via Bangkok Bank New York to having my broker send SWIFT transfers, but I directed my broker to use Bangkok Bank New York as the correspondent bank. 

 

For transfers around $2000 under both methods Bangkok Bank Ny charges me $5 and Bangkok Bank Thailand charges 200 baht. Don't recall the charges for amounts over $2000, but it's not much more.

 

your US bank's charges can vary considerably. My broker did the ACH transfer for free and charges $10 for the Swift transfer. If your bank needs to use a correspondent bank and they make the choice of which bank to use, that could make the transfer more expensive.

 

you never would have opened an account at BB New York. Your transfers are directed to the Bangkok Bank account number that you already have in Thailand.

As I understand it a SWIFT transfer is a "wire transfer" that can go worldwide as contrasted to an ACH transaction which can only go between financial institutions that are part of the USA National Automated Clearing House  I am lost though as to why the fee would only be $10.  My broker provides free ACH transfers but upwards of $40 for a wire.  I can easily ACH my funds to my bank and then online do a SWIFT wire but the point is to avoid the $40 fee on a monthly pension check.  

[Suradit69]

33 minutes ago, wpcoe said:

I keep getting confused, so please bear with me: Your broker does a SWIFT transfer to Bangkok Bank New York, essentially a domestic (US) bank?  Or, does your broker permit you to specify the intermediary bank on an international SWIFT transfer?  I'm not clear what "the correspondent bank" means in this case...

 

My only experience with SWIFT transfers was with my US credit union before I switched to the Bangkok Bank system, and on the credit union SWIFT application form there was no place to specify a desired intermediary bank.

My broker initiates a swift transfer to Bangkok Bank Thailand but since they have no direct connection with BB Thailand they use an intermediary US bank ( a bank that does deal directly with BB Thailand aka a correspondent bank).

 

Your bank or broker may choose any of the US banks that do have a direct relationship with BB Thailand ( or whichever Thai bank you use) without asking you. My broker, Vanguard, required me to choose. Since Bangkok Bank New York obviously has a direct connection with Bangkok Bank Thaild and since I've used BB NY before, I chose them

 

So my broker sends an international swift transfer to Bangkok Bank Thailand using Bangkok Bank New York as an intermediary or " go between."

 

Somewhat ironically it's pretty much seems to be the same process as the old ACH method, but it's clearly designated as an international transfer to satisfy the US government.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Suradit69

[wpcoe]

2 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

My broker initiates a swift transfer to Bangkok Bank Thailand but since they have no direct connection with BB Thailand they use an intermediary US bank ( a bank that does deal directly with BB Thailand aka a correspondent bank).

Thanks!  That was what I was missing:  Your broker lets (makes?) you specify the intermediary bank, whereas my credit union doesn't.

[Thomas J]

11 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

My broker initiates a swift transfer to Bangkok Bank Thailand but since they have no direct connection with BB Thailand they use an intermediary US bank ( a bank that does deal directly with BB Thailand aka a correspondent bank).

 

Your bank or broker may choose any of the US banks that do have a direct relationship with BB Thailand ( or whichever Thai bank you use) without asking you. My broker, Vanguard, required me to choose. Since Bangkok Bank New York obviously has a direct connection with Bangkok Bank Thaild and since I've used BB NY before, I chose them

 

So my broker sends an international swift transfer to Bangkok Bank Thailand using Bangkok Bank New York as an intermediary or " go between."

 

Somewhat ironically it's pretty much seems to be the same process as the old ACH method, but it's clearly designated as an international transfer to satisfy the US government.

 

 

I fail to see any advantage whatsoever.  If your broker uses a Swift to bangkok bank New York you will get charged a Wire Transfer fee.  It would then be up to Bangkok Bank New York to code any transfer to Bangkok bank Thailand as an international transfer.  If you did not specify Bangkok Bank New York but instead had your broker wire the money to Bangkok Bank Thailand they would use their bank to wire the funds directly and it would get coded as an international wire transfer.  If you ACH the money from your broker to any USA bank that you use and then have your bank wire it to Bangkok Bank Thailand again it would get coded as an international wire.  However in all of those situations you are being imposed a wire transfer fee which on small amounts like your monthly pension is not cost effective.  I see no advantage of what you are doing versus having your broker ACH the money to Bangkok Bank. 

[jaideedave]

I need some clarification. Because of the poor exchange rate for the CDN $ my monthly pension only amounts to 56,000 baht as opposed to the required 65,000 baht.

I will arrange to have it wired to my KBank account.

I have a couple hundred thousand baht in the same bank. Does anyone know if that will be acceptable to an IO as a top up? It was accepted last year when my 800k was light at Jomtien. Options? 

Thanks 

[Suradit69]

29 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

As I understand it a SWIFT transfer is a "wire transfer" that can go worldwide as contrasted to an ACH transaction which can only go between financial institutions that are part of the USA National Automated Clearing House  I am lost though as to why the fee would only be $10.  My broker provides free ACH transfers but upwards of $40 for a wire.  I can easily ACH my funds to my bank and then online do a SWIFT wire but the point is to avoid the $40 fee on a monthly pension check.  

Different banks or brokers decide what they will charge. My broker did the ACH transfers, which were domestic US bank to US bank transfers free, but charged $10 for international transfers. While the ACH transfers were free, a domestic wire also would have cost me. The ACH transfers were sent at the end of the business day and, when possible, were sent in batches. A wire transfer supposedly is sent as soon as the request is received during the business day.

[Thomas J]

1 minute ago, jaideedave said:

I need some clarification. Because of the poor exchange rate for the CDN $ my monthly pension only amounts to 56,000 baht as opposed to the required 65,000 baht.

I will arrange to have it wired to my KBank account.

I have a couple hundred thousand baht in the same bank. Does anyone know if that will be acceptable to an IO as a top up? It was accepted last year when my 800k was light at Jomtien. Options? 

Thanks 

The value of many Western currencies including the U.S. dollar have weakened in the world market the Canadian dollar is among those that have lost value relative to other world currencies.  Problem is not that the baht is strong, it is that the Canadian Dollar is weak. 

 

[Suradit69]

36 minutes ago, wpcoe said:

Thanks!  That was what I was missing:  Your broker lets (makes?) you specify the intermediary bank, whereas my credit union doesn't.

Based on my experience and what others have posted, that's the case.

 

On the application I filled out to set up international transfers from Vanguard, they required me to include a correspondent bank. Others have have posted on TV that their banks made the choice without asking them.

[Suradit69]

45 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

I fail to see any advantage whatsoever.  If your broker uses a Swift to bangkok bank New York you will get charged a Wire Transfer fee.  It would then be up to Bangkok Bank New York to code any transfer to Bangkok bank Thailand as an international transfer.  If you did not specify Bangkok Bank New York but instead had your broker wire the money to Bangkok Bank Thailand they would use their bank to wire the funds directly and it would get coded as an international wire transfer.  If you ACH the money from your broker to any USA bank that you use and then have your bank wire it to Bangkok Bank Thailand again it would get coded as an international wire.  However in all of those situations you are being imposed a wire transfer fee which on small amounts like your monthly pension is not cost effective.  I see no advantage of what you are doing versus having your broker ACH the money to Bangkok Bank. 

My broker can't wire directly to Bangkok Bank Thailand because they don't have a banking relationship with them. My broker initiates an international transfer and uses Bangkok Bank NY to facilitate the transfer. I chose Bangkok Bank NY because I knew their charges were reasonable. It wasn't a question of using a correspondent bank being advantageous. It was required.

 

Most/Many US banks will use a correspondent bank. They may or may not bother to tell you that's what they're doing, but if they don't have a direct connection with your Thai bank, out of necessity they will use a correspondent bank to complete the transfer. The choice of which correspondent bank they use may not be made in consultation with you, but it's fairly likely one will be used.

 

Transferwise shows the Swiftcode for Bangkok Bank NY (when I was exploring the possibility of using TW) so, despite what some people would like to believe, TW seems to use Bangkok Bank Ny too.

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Suradit69

[earlinclaifornia]

I had an issue where I was quarterly saying my bank to WT @ 45$. My retirement agent said he will not accept next year. I changed SSA to the NY Bangkok effectively March. I transferred my quarterly into the NY account. I will transfer Feb to NY for 20$. I'm done and will need only to have a letter my account exists with Bangkok and bring my passbook  at next annual. Easy Peasy

[Pib]

1 hour ago, earlinclaifornia said:

I had an issue where I was quarterly saying my bank to WT @ 45$. My retirement agent said he will not accept next year. I changed SSA to the NY Bangkok effectively March. I transferred my quarterly into the NY account. I will transfer Feb to NY for 20$. I'm done and will need only to have a letter my account exists with Bangkok and bring my passbook  at next annual. Easy Peasy

Just in case your Apr 19 SSA payment does not deposit to your Bangkok Bank account it's because the direct deposit change you initiated was not transmitted in ACH "IAT" format by SSA and Bangkok Bank rejected it back to SSA.   This is per the Bangkok Bank policy change that effective 1 Apr 19 all ACH transfers/payments not in IAT format will be rejected.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Pib

[AAArdvark]

4 hours ago, Thomas J said:

I fail to see any advantage whatsoever.  If your broker uses a Swift to bangkok bank New York you will get charged a Wire Transfer fee.  It would then be up to Bangkok Bank New York to code any transfer to Bangkok bank Thailand as an international transfer.  If you did not specify Bangkok Bank New York but instead had your broker wire the money to Bangkok Bank Thailand they would use their bank to wire the funds directly and it would get coded as an international wire transfer.  If you ACH the money from your broker to any USA bank that you use and then have your bank wire it to Bangkok Bank Thailand again it would get coded as an international wire.  However in all of those situations you are being imposed a wire transfer fee which on small amounts like your monthly pension is not cost effective.  I see no advantage of what you are doing versus having your broker ACH the money to Bangkok Bank. 

You cannot get a personal account for BB in New York.  The way it had worked was the transfer would go to BB New York with the account number of BB Thailand.  This WAS simple in the past as a domestic US bank would think they are transferring to a US bank.  With the new rules stating that BB NYC will only do ACH transfers using IAT coding it will be much more difficult as very few banks currently use this coding. How or why using SWIFT changes anything, I don't know.

[adam1948]

On 2/2/2019 at 1:31 PM, skatewash said:

The OP's question in another thread should explain to you the current situation with Bangkok Bank.  If you can find out if social security will be able to send an ACH transfer for you in IAT format then using Bangkok Bank may be a good possibility.  I will leave it to someone who has actually been through this process of checking with social security to assist you with the best way to do this.

 

While cheap TransferWise has potential problems in that they cannot guarantee (or even promise) the money you send from the US to Thailand will arrive at your Thai bank with the proper coding showing it came from the US.  This is true even for people having Bangkok Bank accounts.  It may work 95% of the time but how do you finesse the times it doesn't end up with an international coding with immigration?

 

Finally, there's the suggestion of using a different US financial institution.  For example, international SWIFT transfers cost $10 for customers of Vanguard.  I understand Fidelity has a similar cost but don't know the details of that.  Most commercial banks such as your current one will price their SWIFT transfers at a higher cost ($40).  It can be difficult to set up a new US financial account while not actually residing in the US. 

Could you be so kind as to explain "Vanguard" and "Fidelity" thank you very much ... I appreciate the time you take to help others :)

[gentlemanjackdarby]

5 hours ago, adam1948 said:

Could you be so kind as to explain "Vanguard" and "Fidelity" thank you very much ... I appreciate the time you take to help others ????

Vanguard and Fidelity are U.S. brokerages.

 

I know folks have been mentioning Vanguard's USD 10 wire transfer fee, so I took a look at their site.

 

The 10 USD wire transfer is for a one-time redemption from a Vanguard mutual fund account, so it's different than making a wire transfer from a bank account into which one might have, for example, their monthly pension deposited.

 

One other than isn't mentioned when mentioning Vanguard's USD 10 fee is that Vanguard requires one to provide a correspondent bank when requesting an international wire transfer - what that means is that one will incur an additional fee from the correspondent bank.

 

USAA does the same thing - quote only their fee without including the cost from the correspondent bank.

 

It's not really as inexpensive as it looks, although Vanguard does send the transfer in USD, but it's likely the correspondent bank will perform a currency exchange at rates not as good as one would get if USD was wired directly to a Thai bank and the conversion executed there.

[skatewash]

9 hours ago, adam1948 said:

Could you be so kind as to explain "Vanguard" and "Fidelity" thank you very much ... I appreciate the time you take to help others ????

Vanguard and Fidelity are brokerages that do business in the US.

 

Quote

 

The Vanguard Group is an American registered investment advisor based in Malvern, Pennsylvania with over $5.1 trillion in assets under management.  It is the largest provider of mutual funds and the second-largest provider of exchange-traded funds (ETFs) in the world after BlackRock's iShares. In addition to mutual funds and ETFs, Vanguard offers brokerage services, variable and fixed annuities, educational account services, financial planning, asset management, and trust services.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vanguard_Group

 

 

 

Quote

 

Fidelity Investments Inc., commonly referred to as Fidelity, is a multinational financial services corporation based in Boston, Massachusetts.

It is one of the largest asset managers with $2.46 trillion in assets under management as of March 2018. Fidelity Investments operates a brokerage firm, manages a large family of mutual funds, provides fund distribution and investment advice, retirement services, wealth management, securities execution and clearance, and life insurance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidelity_Investments

 

 

This article explains the basic process of using these companies to transfer money outside the US:

 

Quote

 

I used Fidelity for this wire transfer to Kenya. It was completely free to me. If you do it through Vanguard, it costs only $10; the fee is waived if you are a Flagship customer (having $1 million or more in Vanguard funds and ETFs at Vanguard). By comparison Bank of America charges $45 for an international wire transfer sent in U.S. dollars. Credit unions aren’t necessarily better. Alliant Credit Union charges $50 for an international wire.

The reason sending a wire through a brokerage account costs you less than doing it through a bank is that the broker sees the wire transfer more as an ancillary service to keep you as a customer for their bread-and-butter investment services. It’s not a profit center for them.

https://thefinancebuff.com/free-international-wire-transfer-fidelity-vanguard.html

 

 

So from the perspective of wire transfers Fidelity (in most cases) beats Vanguard for cost.  In most other respects, however, I believe Vanguard is the superior company.

The difficult thing with either of these is getting it set-up the first time.  They want to make very sure it's you who is setting this up and so for example, Fidelity requires a Medallion Signature Guarantee, which is kind of a pain in the neck, even if you're in the US.  You can apparently also visit a Fidelity office instead, but again I believe only in the US.

 

Vanguard requires a signature guarantee too, but I've heard that it's possible to overcome this hurdle by answering security questions over the phone.  I haven't tried this myself yet but will be doing so shortly.

 

It's hard to get accounts like this set up if you are not a resident of the US.  Therefore, a very good idea to do so before you leave the US.

 

 

[adam1948]

Yesterday Wed Feb 6 a fellow TVF poster named "billsmart" said that sometime next week he was going to Imm office and show them his bank book which had "domestic" deposits only and he was going to ask Imm Officer if that was OK to use for monthly income requirement ... I meant to, but forgot to make a record of what thread/page his post was on so I could check back on what IO said ... does anyone know where his post is or how to find post or "billsmart" I've looked at so many threads and read so many pages my head is spinning ... thanks in advance for any help you can give me and others that are interested in his findings????

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, adam1948 said:

does anyone know where his post is or how to find post or "billsmart" I've looked at so many threads and read so many pages my head is spinning ..

Type @billsmart to find him or a member you know the name for. You can look at his contend here. https://forum.thaivisa.com/profile/53238-billsmart/content/

[billsmart]

18 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Type @billsmart to find him or a member you know the name for. You can look at his contend here. https://forum.thaivisa.com/profile/53238-billsmart/content/

I'm here. If you want to contact me, you could message me...

[JackThompson]

On 2/5/2019 at 4:32 PM, Suradit69 said:

Transferwise shows the Swiftcode for Bangkok Bank NY (when I was exploring the possibility of using TW) so, despite what some people would like to believe, TW seems to use Bangkok Bank Ny too.

Would doing a TW xfer to BKBNY (or London), vs direct to Thailand, be a way to ensure the transfer is always shown as "international" in one's local BKB statement?  My ACH transfers through the NY branch always did.

[gentlemanjackdarby]

16 hours ago, skatewash said:

Vanguard and Fidelity are brokerages that do business in the US.

 

 

 

 

This article explains the basic process of using these companies to transfer money outside the US:

 

So from the perspective of wire transfers Fidelity (in most cases) beats Vanguard for cost.  In most other respects, however, I believe Vanguard is the superior company.

The difficult thing with either of these is getting it set-up the first time.  They want to make very sure it's you who is setting this up and so for example, Fidelity requires a Medallion Signature Guarantee, which is kind of a pain in the neck, even if you're in the US.  You can apparently also visit a Fidelity office instead, but again I believe only in the US.

 

Vanguard requires a signature guarantee too, but I've heard that it's possible to overcome this hurdle by answering security questions over the phone.  I haven't tried this myself yet but will be doing so shortly.

 

It's hard to get accounts like this set up if you are not a resident of the US.  Therefore, a very good idea to do so before you leave the US.

 

 

I have brokerage accounts at Charles Schwab, Fidelity, and TD Ameritrade

 

The Charles Schwab and Fidelity accounts I set up about 3 years ago and as I recall, I did everything online except for possibly the signature cards, which may have been mailed to me for signature.

 

Just signing signature cards can easily be handled from outside the U.S. with a mail forwarding service or a trusted relative.

 

One thing that I find aggravating is that my brokerages, as well as my banks, all like to send something once or twice a year to me via U.S. mail even though I've tried and tried to get them not to, so it's a good idea to have some sort of mail forwarding service to ensure that their mailings aren't returned as undeliverable. My opinion is that the reason brokerages and banks send something via U.S. mail is to verify one's physical address, which seems to have become a much bigger deal in recent years.

 

As far as medallion signature guarantees go, they can become serious pains-in-the-ass since most banks don't do them and some credit unions require them in order to send an international wire.

 

I don't have a lot good to say about the heavy-hitter banks, but one thing I'll say in their favor is that it's really easy to send an international wire online through their websites. A lot of banks and credit unions require one to fill out a form and fax it to them or, worst of all, visit a branch to make a wire. Even USAA, which really ought to be more friendly in this regard, requires one to fill out paperwork.