Most people want PM to use “bitter pill” to deal with smog problem: Suan Dusit Poll

[NeoDinosaw]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I don't believe transportation adds significantly to the problem, the problem is thousands of acres of forest and stubble being burnt all over SEA.

If that is the case, why is the smog over the big cities and not over the rural areas ?

[Pdavies99]

9 hours ago, robblok said:

Plus ban all diesel pickups and other diesel vehicles from the roads. Too much tax cust have been given so people could have cheap but polluting big pickups. Normal cars on benzine are less polluting. 

 

Best thing would be if they really went on finding the cars that belch black smoke and go after them all the time not just sometimes.

Whilst you are in part correct, the issue is low quality diesel and gasoline and natural gasvand LPG sold in Thailand,  Many if not all large HGV that smoke are actually running on very low quality Gas  (NGV & LPG)

 

Benzine is just as bad as Diesel but canot be seen so clearly.  The fuel sold in Thailand Is of a far lower purification compared to the USA and EU etc. This means poor combustion, blocked injectors etc creating smoke and unburnt fuel. Cataylitic convertors are not fitted to most vehicles and even fitted are completely damaged by the fuel sold here.

 

This creates poor burning of fuel etc then to compound this problem is nil servicing of vehicles and vehicle testing annually is a joke!

 

Many countries around the world ban the burning of rubbish etc and certainly crop burning!

 

So whilst banning smoking vehicles will create a short term remedy, the problem will quickly return.  A good result would be to vastly improve the fuel quality sold in Thailand in the first instance!

Edited February 3, 2019 by Pdavies99

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Destiny1990 said:

First ban all the cars than introduce the  bicycle.

What a brilliant idea.

 

Do you think that you could manage to cycle from BKK to CM or Phuket and back?

 

Thailand could stop building cars, trucks, motorcycles etc for export and export bicycles instead.

 

Wake up to reality.

[Huckenfell]

8 hours ago, BEngBKK said:

How stupid are these people ????

Everybody knows that the only way to solve this problem is to wear lucky charm amulets and have all monks come to BKK and pray......

No need to think about pollution, garbage and cleaning up, when it can be solves so easy (Sarcasm) ......

Go Go Thailand 4.1..... Bring in the monks... 


 

But they already have got Drones with a 10 litre ability spraying water. Surely this will work, just like the boats pushing the water out to sea in a previous calamity.

[Pdavies99]

9 hours ago, robblok said:

Plus ban all diesel pickups and other diesel vehicles from the roads. Too much tax cust have been given so people could have cheap but polluting big pickups. Normal cars on benzine are less polluting. 

 

Best thing would be if they really went on finding the cars that belch black smoke and go after them all the time not just sometimes.

!

Edited February 3, 2019 by Pdavies99

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, NeoDinosaw said:

If that is the case, why is the smog over the big cities and not over the rural areas ?

It's everywhere.

[Huckenfell]

I do not know whether it is true or not, but someone posted that cars in Thailand do not have Catalytic Converters fitted.

[HAKAPALITA]

What a brilliant idea.
 
Do you think that you could manage to cycle from BKK to CM or Phuket and back?
 
Thailand could stop building cars, trucks, motorcycles etc for export and export bicycles instead.
 
Wake up to reality.

Id start in CM, then it’s downhill all the way.!.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Huckenfell]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I don't believe transportation adds significantly to the problem, the problem is thousands of acres of forest and stubble being burnt all over SEA.

So why does it only pollute Bangkok.

[billd766]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

It's everywhere.

Not out here in rural Kamphaeng Phet.

[Huckenfell]

5 hours ago, dontoearth said:

A lot of the taxi in bkk run on lpg rather than gasoline.  I did see one big rig out on the highway using the lpg containers in a tandem behind the passenger cab.  So they do have some alternatives to diesel.  In the decades I was in Thailand  bangkok upgraded the bus fleets quite a few times.  It seems to be long overdue now.  Might be time to upgrade to buses with different engines.

 

With all the sun and thermal heat in Thailand you wonder why solar and thermal energy isn't used to power electric buses and cars.  Perhaps they can invite Elon Musk back and get him to stop yelling obscenities at the cave divers and get him to help them get some electric cars.  ????????

 

Electric cars are no longer a play toy there are millions of units in service now all over the world.  Many countries have set very high goals to switching over from ICE (internal combustion engines).  Why is thailand lagging so far behind?

 

This problem can't be solved next week by emergency powers.  It will take a while once some rational decisions are made to clean up the air.

The answer is because Thailand desperately needs Submarines and Chinese Tanks. Cannot have everything, so have to have priorities.

[window]

9 hours ago, robblok said:

Plus ban all diesel pickups and other diesel vehicles from the roads. Too much tax cust have been given so people could have cheap but polluting big pickups. Normal cars on benzine are less polluting. 

 

Best thing would be if they really went on finding the cars that belch black smoke and go after them all the time not just sometimes.

No need to ban all Diesel Vehicles from the road. all the old Buses Spewing smoke out and the Pickups and vans that have been modified for performance that belch massive amounts of Black smoke. Tuk Tuks would be a huge problem as well. most new Diesel vehicles would be fine.

[marcusarelus]

9 minutes ago, Huckenfell said:

So why does it only pollute Bangkok.

I believe Chiangmai is also polluted by the burning.

[Pdavies99]

15 minutes ago, Huckenfell said:

I do not know whether it is true or not, but someone posted that cars in Thailand do not have Catalytic Converters fitted.

True on most makes!

[Huckenfell]

5 hours ago, Xonax said:

And how do you really think that Thailand would have developed, with the Taksin regime still in power instead of the coup???

Full steam ahead for all, as it was back then.

[Huckenfell]

1 hour ago, Baggy said:

If Molasses and water do not work.....

what about 200 Giant fans blowing the pollution to sea or another country?

How bloody ridiculous!  I think that the idea as previously posted with Helicopters flying around Bangkok  upside down, thus blowing the foul air up and away. should do the trick.

[manhood]

That would be the first time this article 44 is used for a reason for the people of Thailand!!!!!!!

 

[The Old Bull]

11 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

A general invoking special powers could anything go wrong ????

Maybe he could stand on a high rooftop and order the smog to go away. He has the power , in his own mind anyway.

[Dumbastheycome]

Rather than invoke "article 44"  perhaps the best response would be to  congregate the entire  membership of TVF in an appropriate   position to  blow hard ?

It seems wasted  to do it  here!

[mike787]

...but how can we save LOS???  Lets all start a GoFundme page! In exchange, Thai immigration will stop 90 day reporting if we can save LOS.  Based on Thai perception, we defecate diamonds...

[WyrldTraveler]

Quito has a program that bans certain license plates depending on the day of the week.

 

Ends in:

1-2 park on Monday

3-4 park on Tuesday, etc.

 

Sunday no enforcement.

 

Cops issue tickets (good for bribes OR good for city revenue)  Drivers comply or pay bribes all day.

 

Another idea is to ban all heavy vehicles in urban areas between the hours of 6am and 8pm.  (I forget which cities do this.)

 

Enforcing existing environmental rules is also a good idea.

 

But, hey, what do I know.  I am just an idiot Farang.

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, WyrldTraveler said:

Quito has a program that bans certain license plates depending on the day of the week.

 

Ends in:

1-2 park on Monday

3-4 park on Tuesday, etc.

 

Sunday no enforcement.

 

Cops issue tickets (good for bribes OR good for city revenue)  Drivers comply or pay bribes all day.

 

Another idea is to ban all heavy vehicles in urban areas between the hours of 6am and 8pm.  (I forget which cities do this.)

 

Enforcing existing environmental rules is also a good idea.

 

But, hey, what do I know.  I am just an idiot Farang.

I think most would agree.  Without stopping the burning of cane and rice fields the auto thing is not going to work. 

[chama]

Thais may feel that there is a simple quick solution and that all that needs to be done is the invocation of 44 to force some stringent rules. These rules may help in the long run but there is no instant fix. And a lot of the things required for the fix will be unpopular as soon as the air clears up and the rules will be forgotten until the air gets nasty again. And then there is the fact that the surrounding countries are contributing to the problem and they are not going to comply with 44, that will take some strong negotiating with viable options. This is a long term problem that will require a long term fix and Thais aren't good with long term options.

[Destiny1990]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

What a brilliant idea.

 

Do you think that you could manage to cycle from BKK to CM or Phuket and back?

 

Thailand could stop building cars, trucks, motorcycles etc for export and export bicycles instead.

 

Wake up to reality.

No cars in cities.. walking , biking or public transportation only. But we know it ain’t happening since thais don’t like to sweat or sun exposure so then it be sick lungs

Edited February 3, 2019 by Destiny1990

[dontoearth]

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

IMO the problem with electric cars is their high initial cost, their relatively short range, the lack of recharging points, plus the cost of replacement batteries and the disposal and recycling of the batteries when they are replaced.

 

The range in the cities is not so important as the amount of time spent sitting in the traffic with the a/c on to keep you cool.

 

Of course to accommodate the electric cars EGAT will need to generate extra power and perhaps upgrade the power lines to the city and urban/rural areas and then people will notice that their electricity bills will rise assuming that they have home charging units.

 

Save on auto fuel bills yet pay higher electricity bills.

    I agree they are still costly.   However, there have been big and important changes in the capabilities and usage of EV's.

    The range is up to 320 miles now which is more than sufficient. 

    Electricity is everywhere.  There might be some where you are living.  Check with the neighbors.  LOL.   There is nothing strange or exotic about the electricity the cars use.  In the USA they can be charged from any home electric clothes dryer socket.  It should be relatively easy to put in fast charges at any mcdonald's or KFC or service station which is independently owned.  There will be no need for huge new electrical lines.    They cars use very little electricity.  In terms of energy comparison here in the USA.  80 miles in an electric car only uses 2.35 USD of electricity.  80 miles in our gas guzzlers would run you about $10.60.  Since the cars use such a small amount of energy so efficiently some techies now estimate we would only need 10% more electrically capacity to run fully and completely on electric cars worldwide.

     Fast chargers can be put in at any connection to the electric company at a street vault.  Not the big deal so many keep saying it is.

     Of course the oil and coal companies produce must different 'facts' for some reason. 

     Even Harley Davidson the manufacture of huge gas burning cycles introduced an electric version a few weeks ago.  Might be a good option for replacing the motorbikes at the mouth of every Soi spewing blue smoke.

     I don't know that thailand has started into test of the cars to see what kind of real world facts and figures become apparent for the Kingdom.  It is something to consider because now we finally are getting lots of cars available which is decreasing the price. The chinese are investing in 3 car companies that will turn out ONLY EV's.  Korea is trying for a major introduction this year also. 

     Now they have a tesla that has been in service for 350,000 miles and the battery degradation is under 13%.  It now looks like the batteries will completely outlive any car frame we manufacture today.  Very few ICE cars are anything other than landfill at 350,000 miles.  There will be no need to replace the batteries while owning the car.  350,000 miles in the USA would be like owning 3 cars over a period of time.  One optimistic estimate is that the battery pack might live 25 years and you might need to put a new car frame on top of it once or twice during those 25 years. 

      And I seem to remember somewhere some years ago that Thailand was either going to test electric buses or gas buses.  I wonder what happened to that project?     

      If you have been to San Francisco the buses all work like old fashioned electric street cars plugged into an overhead grid on their routes.  This is old technology they had this in the 50's in most western cities before the car became KING.  IN fact down market street in SF they use old restored 1950's electric street cars to create a tourist attraction. The buses don't need rails they run on rubber tires.  The older electric street cars are steel wheels needing rails. They are not that comfy since they are primarily wood bench.   

      As you can tell I am quite an enthusiast.  My hi-rise has contracted to put in the chargers in our garage and I want to be switched over before the next gas crisis.  

          Just some thoughts.  

      

[LetsCleanUpTHAILAND]

5 Reasons why I predict that 2019 WILL BE THE DEADLIEST YEAR YET!

 

1. More than 50% of Thailand's pollution is from open burning according to Greenpeace and the WHO. Burning trash is Thailand's traditional waste management practice - That includes not only waste-to-energy incineration but also back yard burning. The hot "rice bowl" of Thailand doesn't have Mother Nature blowing the steam out of the bowl so that's leaves us in a thick milk of smog.

2. In addition to the daily trash burning that happen across Thailand, there will be inscent burning nationwide for Chinese New Year; moreover, we have three months of crop burning in the entire SE Asian region.

3. Next, when ground-level pollution from burning, cars, factories, ect is mixed with UV radiation from Sunlight, O3(ozone) is created as a byproduct. This is akin to wearing a jacket in the dead of summer. The O3 is not only going to smash our pollution into our cities, but it's going to create abnormal heat waves which prevent wind or rain for forming due to high atmospheric pressure. Basically, the effects of global warming are going to happen on a nationwide scale here in the rice bowl.

4. Finally, +40C months with humid air saturated in vaporized trash particles during Mar - May

are going to put a lot of citizens in the hospital. 

 

My solution:

 

#1: Have the military to force Royal Police to educate and enforce all Thai citizens about the dangers of trash burning and announce the national law about how it's illegal to burn trash and how any burning will result in a 5,000THB fine or 1 month in jail as well as a score of at least 80% on a test that proves the individual understands the dangers of trash burning as well as the law. If the individual cannot read, a Royal teacher can be used to teach and read the material.

#2. Impose "No Car" days and start campaign about how to use public transportation. Create an app to make it super easy.

#3. Invest in composing facilities. 60% of waste in thailand is organic and we burn it. That includes crops. Several companies in EU and USA have state-of-the-art composing facilities that can turn food waste and crop waste into rich fertilizer in a few weeks. Let's make an economy from waste, not pollution. Have three main facilities: Chiang Mai, Ayutthaya and Khon Kean 

#4. Ban plastic bags and plastic straws. ICONSIAM is using paper straws. Single-use plastics in thailand are either burned (plastics are made from oil and toxic chemicals like BPA) or end up in the river.

#5. Phase our diesel buses and vehicles and make it more difficult for poeple to get a loan to buy a vehicle. Keep it cheaper to take public transit.

 

That is what I would do if I was PM of Thailand. Can a farang run for election? haha

 

Any ideas? How can we get our ideas into the media to help Thailand? I don't know about you, but I really don't want to move.

[MikeN]

9 hours ago, Huckenfell said:

So why does it only pollute Bangkok.

AQI in Bangkok ( Bangna) 68.

AQI for Ubon at the moment ......144

For Udon Thani .....160-170

P’lok .....153

Lamphun ....120

Kanchanaburi ......129

Loei ....134

 

Still think it only affects Bangkok ?

[thaigirlwatcher]

21 hours ago, robblok said:

Plus ban all diesel pickups and other diesel vehicles from the roads. Too much tax cust have been given so people could have cheap but polluting big pickups. Normal cars on benzine are less polluting. 

 

Best thing would be if they really went on finding the cars that belch black smoke and go after them all the time not just sometimes.

Thailand does not have to "reinvent the wheel" to solve this problem. It's been done before. Just look at the history of the CARB, the California Air Resources Board. LA in the 60's and 70's was much like Bangkok, Pattaya and Chiang Mai today. I've been to all of them. The difference being that this Board had the backing of the California residents and the State government and could draw from the vast technical knowledge in America then and now.  They also had the authority to impose onerous fines if laws are violated. Just follow their guidelines. Problem being that their success took decades and no, they didn't use molasses dropping drones either. 

[thailand49]

Thailand on the surface seems to have more government offices and people stumbling all over themselves.  They already have rules/ideas about everything which seem to be taken from other countries.  But reality no one seems to be able to enforce or understand the need for them every time they use Section 44 is an admission that to be the case! 

This was a situation like most going to happen now that it has their people actually think there is someone in office who can enforce/teach snap a finger and make it happen!  ????

Edited February 3, 2019 by thailand49

[Chris Lawrence]

This is the problem; Bangkok people want instant fix for their area. More astonishing is that the General believes he can fix it with a section 44. No doubt the thought of section 44 has been leaked to impress on people that the General is all and powerful.

 

The issues are multi and will take years to fix. 

 

I hope they do solve the problem. Do you think the public can be hoodwinked or deceived so easy?