EU rebuffs May, says no-plan Brexiteers deserve 'place in hell'

[SheungWan]

8 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

He started of quite well, but as soon as he said the word 'unicorns' I switched off. Pity he brought it down to playground level rather than keeping it objective. 

........as if the Hard Brexiteers either know or want it any other way.

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

I would like to think there was scope for new new deal. But she doesn't show any signs of being capable of changing course. 

too bad

the time to do it is certainly available

 

lack of political will in EU - lack of political talent in UK

 

a sorry state

 

 

[rixalex]

17 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

Omg.

The britisch public Can Not vote out Junker alone. If Junker got the majority of the other members of the European parliament of the other 27 states. The EU is the voluntary association of sovereign states with the aim of promoting and securing the prosperity of all its members. All EU decisions are always compromises of all 28 member States. The national egotistical anguish is not so much in demand there.

The world is not rotating around the UK alone. 

You've made my point (as well as throwing in the usual and seemingly obligatory remain insults for good measure).

 

Remainers on here were claiming that removing Juncker could be done by British voters in the same way as removing May. It's completely untrue, as you state in the above.

[Laughing Gravy]

9 hours ago, 7by7 said:

What those people conveniently forget is that when Cameron resigned, no Brexiteer wanted the job! They all saw it for the poisoned chalice which it is. Boris withdrew from the contest, Gove withdrew from the contest; cowards both.

it is simply not true. Boris went for the job and knew he wouldn't get the required votes to win, knowing many in his party are remainers. History has shown that to be true.

Cowards. Where is your evidence for that? Gove a back stabber for sure.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/30/boris-johnson-rules-himself-out-of-tory-leadership-race-brexit-eu-referendum

 

I still believe the whole reason for TM getting the job was to either keep the UK in the EU or give a deal so bad we end up staying in the EU. Her resilience or unwillingness to leave as leader is showing this IMHO.  As a remainer how can your heart and soul be in the job especially with the way she has been treated by her party and the EU. Well unless you are a remainer and are doing exactly what was always planned. Keep the UK shackled to the EU.

 

 

[samran]

UK Japan Trade talks stall

 

https://www.ft.com/content/5ce60af2-2b90-11e9-a5ab-ff8ef2b976c7

 

A small taste of the future. 

 

But hey, blue passports!

[Spidey]

10 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Remainers on here were claiming that removing Juncker could be done by British voters in the same way as removing May. It's completely untrue, as you state in the above.

No, remainers, quite rightly, stated that Junker could be removed by European voters in the same way that May could be removed by British voters.

 

Unfortunately, if you ain't in the club, you don't get a vote. Which is why I've always maintained that it would be better to remain than leave. It's far better to be inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in. I'm very disappointed in the British electorate, I always saw us as a nation that stayed and fought rather than ran and hid.

[rixalex]

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

No, remainers, quite rightly, stated that Junker could be removed by European voters in the same way that May could be removed by British voters.

 

The assertion was that Juncker could be removed by British voters in the same way that they could remove May. You know this isn't true. Why lie? It doesn't advance your argument. The reverse.

 

As already stated by one of your fellow remainers, British voters shouldn't single-handedly have the power to remove him, as Britain is just one nation out of 28.

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, rixalex said:

The assertion was that Juncker could be removed by British voters in the same way that they could remove May. You know this isn't true. Why lie? It doesn't advance your argument. The reverse.

Untrue. Sorry, don't the facts suit your agenda?

[rixalex]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Untrue. Sorry, don't the facts suit your agenda?

They aren't facts. And you know it.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, rixalex said:

They aren't facts. And you know it.

Yes they are and I know it. Clearly you don't understand how democracy vis-à-vis the European parliament works.....or you don't want to understand it.

[elliss]

On 2/8/2019 at 1:12 AM, david555 said:

But really had a good fun of it ...

 

[elliss]

       

           May be ,   we  will never meet her again. 

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, elliss said:

       

           May be ,   we  will never meet her again. 

Or, "Thanks for getting rid of Mme. Nebulous.

[rixalex]

9 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Yes they are and I know it. Clearly you don't understand how democracy vis-à-vis the European parliament works.....or you don't want to understand it.

I understand it just fine. And i know, as do you, that the British voting public does have the power to vote out May, it doesn't have the power to vote out Juncker.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, rixalex said:

 

As already stated by one of your fellow remainers, British voters shouldn't single-handedly have the power to remove him, as Britain is just one nation out of 28.

Which means “the way” is the same: casting a vote for your  representative to act on your behalf. The fact that not only the British but the whole electorate gets a vote doesn’t make it “undemocratic” or  anyone “unelected”. Quite the contrary. That would be like Scottish or Welsh people saying the British MP is “unelected” because their nations are just one out of four. 

 

 

 

[rixalex]

9 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Which means “the way” is the same: casting a vote for your  representative to act on your behalf. The fact that not only the British but the whole electorate gets a vote doesn’t make it “undemocratic” or  anyone “unelected”. Quite the contrary. That would be like Scottish or Welsh people saying the British MP is “unelected” because their nations are just one out of four. 

 

 

 

I didn't state anything about "undemocratic" or "unelected". I disagreed that British people could remove Juncker in the same way as they could remove May. That is patently untrue. If British people don't want May as their PM, they can vote for a party that doesn't have her as their leader. If British people don't want Juncker as President of the EU, they can do what?

[Spidey]

11 minutes ago, rixalex said:

If British people don't want Juncker as President of the EU, they can do what?

They can vote for an MEP who campaigns to remove him.

[rixalex]

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

They can vote for an MEP who campaigns to remove him.

Thanks for actually answering, finally.

 

OK, so firstly British people are relying on there being an MEP who is campaigning to remove him. What if there are no MEPs campaigning for that? What then? Do you know of any MEPs that have campaigned with removing Juncker as part of their pledge to voters?

 

Secondly, they are relying on their MEP being able to win the support of the MEPs from 27 other nations, and seriously, what is the chance of that?

 

So no, British people do not have the same power to remove Juncker as they do May.

[welovesundaysatspace]

26 minutes ago, rixalex said:

I didn't state anything about "undemocratic" or "unelected".

How exactly did this discussion emerge? 

26 minutes ago, rixalex said:

I disagreed that British people could remove Juncker in the same way as they could remove May. That is patently untrue. If British people don't want May as their PM, they can vote for a party that doesn't have her as their leader. If British people don't want Juncker as President of the EU, they can do what?

Vote for politicians that don’t want him as their leader. 

[rixalex]

4 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

How exactly did this discussion emerge? 

Vote for politicians that don’t want him as their leader. 

Spidey claiming Juncker could be removed in the same way as May.

 

As stated, if no MEPs are campaigning to remove him, what does the voter do then? Can you name any MEPs who have pledged to remove him?

[wayned]

Maybe Teresa May and Donald Trump should get married and go help out Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela!=, or start there own country in Antarctica ruling penguins and seals!  Neither one are fit for their current positions!

[welovesundaysatspace]

21 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Spidey claiming Juncker could be removed in the same way as May.

That wasn’t the original question that caused this discussion to emerge. 

21 minutes ago, rixalex said:

As stated, if no MEPs are campaigning to remove him, what does the voter do then?

Vote other MEPs in.

 

 

 

[rixalex]

24 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

That wasn’t the original question that caused this discussion to emerge. 

Vote other MEPs in.

 

 

 

That depends how far back you want to go. The issue i was discussing was whether or not Juncker could be removed by British people in the same way that they could remove May. The answer is that he can't.

 

If there are NO British MEPs campaigning to remove Juncker, how is a British voter supposed to vote him out? Vote for an MEP that doesn't exist?

 

And even if there are British MEPs campaigning to remove him, a British voter voting for them does not guarantee he will be removed. Far from it, as there are 27 other nations who would have to agree.

 

Comparing the power the British voter has over May's position with that of Juncker's is complete nonsense.

 

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, rixalex said:

So no, British people do not have the same power to remove Juncker as they do May.

I seem to recall Cameron being exasperated at not being able to block/veto/prevent appointments to the top table either.

[Mavideol]

3 hours ago, rixalex said:

I understand it just fine. And i know, as do you, that the British voting public does have the power to vote out May, it doesn't have the power to vote out Juncker.

I am little on the brain slow side and can't quite understand your reasoning, could you be so kind to elaborate how the English people can vote May out, quite curious about it

[evadgib]

[melvinmelvin]

38 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

I am little on the brain slow side and can't quite understand your reasoning, could you be so kind to elaborate how the English people can vote May out, quite curious about it

by ensuring that SNP gets majority in parliament

with that you are reasonably sure that May will not be PM

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, rixalex said:

That depends how far back you want to go. The issue i was discussing was whether or not Juncker could be removed by British people in the same way that they could remove May. The answer is that he can't.

 

If there are NO British MEPs campaigning to remove Juncker, how is a British voter supposed to vote him out? Vote for an MEP that doesn't exist?

 

And even if there are British MEPs campaigning to remove him, a British voter voting for them does not guarantee he will be removed. Far from it, as there are 27 other nations who would have to agree.

 

Comparing the power the British voter has over May's position with that of Juncker's is complete nonsense.

 

bah bah bah

what a totally hopeless argument and discussion

if if if if - if my aunt had a pecker she would have been my uncle

 

the tool you have is your vote

can be used against Tory May in UK

can be used against Juncker in EP

 

[Nigel Garvie]

2 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Which means “the way” is the same: casting a vote for your  representative to act on your behalf. The fact that not only the British but the whole electorate gets a vote doesn’t make it “undemocratic” or  anyone “unelected”. Quite the contrary. That would be like Scottish or Welsh people saying the British MP is “unelected” because their nations are just one out of four. 

 

 

 

I was very surprised that this somewhat unedifying dispute carried on after the above post clearly answers the question.

Addressing this to the leavers who are animated by this dispute, let me try a slightly different way. Forgetting distortions bought about by FPTP etc, your vote has an impact directly proportional to the number of people voting. If you are voting for the election of a new village bowling club treasurer it may have a big weight, less so in council elections, less so in UK elections, less so again in EU elections. No one with half a brain is disputing that your vote has less impact in EU elections than in UK elections, the contention was - as I understood it -  that the method of voting is essentially the same. It is democracy but on a larger scale. Surely it is hard to argue with that, it should be self evident.

 

[evadgib]

3 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

That would be like Scottish or Welsh people saying the British MP is “unelected” because their nations are just one out of four. 

Somewhat mute, given they're all British ????