2 hours ago, smedly said:

The people of the UK voted to leave - that is done and dusted, there possibly be scope for how we leave

If it were ‘done and dusted’, this whole topic would not exist.

Edited February 15, 20197 yr by Chomper Higgot

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Have you read anywhere exactly how much is genuinely 'owed' to the eu?

 

From the beginning, it has been nothing other than 'made up' numbers!

Numbers that the British Government agreed to.

 

 

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Which raises the question Brexit with no deal or no Brexit?

 

 

 

OK, not that interested in Brexit, but I've had a little think about it.  Possibly wrong but:

 

The EU will not budge.

 

For Parliament, "Deal" is out the door.

 

The public know that staying in means, in terms of "the pound in their pocket/food on the table/roof over their heads".........normal.

 

They have become inured to the idea that "No Deal" equals Doom.

 

So Parliament has the job, in the eyes of the public, of choosing between Catastrophe or Safe.

 

That shouldn't be too difficult.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 20197 yr by Enoon

3 hours ago, flossie35 said:

I hope you are! What do you expect Junker/Tusk to do? Re-start the NI troubles? And what hope is there for a "smooth transition"? And since any form of brexit is bad for us why do we still persist with silly nonsense?

Ever succeeded in persuading a grumpy old git to change his mind about anything? You might get better odds in persuading one to move from a dumbphone to a smartphone than getting him to review Brexit.

Numbers that the British Government agreed to.
 
 

No they haven’t. Only Theresa May has in her “my-deal-or-no-deal”. That agreement has been kicked out twice.


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36 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Numbers that the British Government agreed to.

 

 

Because it’s a good deal. They basically got a discount. 

 

So Parliament has the job, in the eyes of the public, of choosing between Catastrophe

Parliament has the job to deliver on the Withdrawal Act they have already passed into law.
Maybe they can improve our Exit with a deal but they must try harder than Theresa’s surrender to the EU.


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3 minutes ago, Loiner said:

No they haven’t. Only Theresa May has in her “my-deal-or-no-deal”. That agreement has been kicked out twice.


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Theresa May heads the Government.

 

It’s Parliament she’s having trouble with (thanks to members of her own party).

 

I trust we don’t need to re-run the ‘Government for beginners’ course again.

1 minute ago, Loiner said:

 

Parliament has the job to deliver on the Withdrawal Act they have already passed into law.
Maybe they can improve our Exit with a deal but they must try harder than Theresa’s surrender to the EU.


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Or they can envoke parliamentary sovereignty and do something else.

Can not even find the wording for the motion that was defeated, but as I understand it is not enforceable, certainly not a "meaningful" vote...

Brexit  new day new chance  .

 

 

But thats what the people voted for just the so called smart negoatiors didnt get the job done . 

 

March 29 is March 29 but as Always there will be delay  the time playing game 

the waiting game 

 

Who knows hard breXit then 6 months shambles after that pick up the bits and make trade agreements with china america caneda uae leaving Europe crying and asking please mrs may can i come and see u please please 

 

Only thing that i hope will not happen is that north south ireland start war again 

 

Never want to see violence like that again herendus .

 

so good luck to al

 

 

Theresa May heads the Government.
 
It’s Parliament she’s having trouble with (thanks to members of her own party).
 
I trust we don’t need to re-run the ‘Government for beginners’ course again.

You need to re-run the actual situation to help yourself understand:
She’s a PM running her own duplicitous Remain agenda. Her ‘Government’ fortunately includes the ERG, CON rebels and DUP members, who don’t agree with her ‘deal’, hence her defeats.

Better write a new module for your ‘Government in Action Course’



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Or they can envoke parliamentary sovereignty and do something else.

They’ve tried but can’t get a majority to steam roller their own way through the Withdrawal Act, which they all previously voted on and passed by majority.


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4 hours ago, smedly said:

The people of the UK voted to leave - that is done and dusted, there possibly be scope for how we leave

“Would you like a beer that’s the most delicious you’ll ever taste?”
“Yes please”
“Ok but it is £12 a pint”
“In that case I’ve changed my mind”
“Not possible sorry”
“But I didn’t know the cost”
“Too late now”
“And it looks horrible”
“Just hold your nose and drink it”

5 hours ago, smedly said:

The people of the UK voted to leave - that is done and dusted, there possibly be scope for how we leave

How about we leave with the deal that the Brexit campaigners promised in the referendum.  Of course they cannot deliver that and so we are left with the utter shambles that we have.  I am yet to meet a Brexiteer that voted to leave with no deal because they were promised a deal and an easy to achieve one at that.

13 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

How about we leave with the deal that the Brexit campaigners promised in the referendum.  Of course they cannot deliver that and so we are left with the utter shambles that we have.  I am yet to meet a Brexiteer that voted to leave with no deal because they were promised a deal and an easy to achieve one at that.

There was nothing on the ballet paper about a deal. It was Leave or Remain. Leave clearly meant leaving the single market and customs union. Leave won, so if the EU and UK can't reach a deal then No Deal it is.

 

The only deal the EU will agree to is so bad for the UK that Leavers and Remain are united in rejecting it.

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

The only deal the EU will agree to is so bad for the UK that Leavers and Remain are united in rejecting it.

Exactly my point.  Why did the leave campaigners promise us a deal that would have been good for the UK when they couldn't deliver it.  The EU haven't changed their position on Brexit, they have been consistent from day one.  The people voted leave because of what the Brexiteers told them.  

20 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

How about we leave with the deal that the Brexit campaigners promised in the referendum.  Of course they cannot deliver that and so we are left with the utter shambles that we have.  I am yet to meet a Brexiteer that voted to leave with no deal because they were promised a deal and an easy to achieve one at that.

you are getting confused, we haven't actually started to negotiate a trade deal yet, that comes next

 

The EU will stop at nothing to prevent us leaving - they do not want an independent UK competing against them because they no they will lose, and when others see how well the UK is doing they will want the same

 

The EU is sinking fast simply because they overstepped going from a trade block to a military and political empire - they are power mongers, it is the way Europe has been for centuries

 

we want out

There was nothing on the ballet paper about a deal. It was Leave or Remain. Leave clearly meant leaving the single market and customs union. Leave won, so if the EU and UK can't reach a deal then No Deal it is.
 
The only deal the EU will agree to is so bad for the UK that Leavers and Remain are united in rejecting it.

You assume what leave "clearly" meant. To some it may have meant 350 mil a week to the NHS, to others it may have meant less imposed regulations. The leavers had a meeting last year and couldn't come up with a statement they all agreed with so gave no statement. However we leave, it will not only be remainers who are dissapointed with the result.

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How about we leave with the deal that the Brexit campaigners promised in the referendum.  Of course they cannot deliver that and so we are left with the utter shambles that we have.  I am yet to meet a Brexiteer that voted to leave with no deal because they were promised a deal and an easy to achieve one at that.

There wasn’t any deal promised by Brexit campaigners.
Possible post exit arrangement discussions gave the idea of a hard or soft Brexit. It was started by Remainers in autumn 2016 when they rallied after the shock of losing. Theresa’s Deal only appeared middle of last year, after she checked it with Merkel. A deal is a Remainer ploy to stay tied to the EU.


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Could it be that TM is playing a smart game of poker  ?

 

1/ Why would the PM insist on such a lousy deal when all of her own party are urging her to rethink ? It could be that she made this deal knowing full well that it would be unacceptable .

 

2/ Why has she and her colleagues been seeking multiple future global trade deals ?

 

3/ " Running down the clock " to leave just 2 options on the table which will result in a No Deal EU exit and that is what I think she is planning .

 

4/ However , even if the " Back Stop " was resolved there are other issues that are unpalatable to the Brexiteers and would make the UK an EU colony .  

 

5/ Why are there so many MPs going against the wishes of their electors ? Could there be a conflict of interests ?

 

6/ When the referendum was made the choice was stay or leave .  No mention of leaving the EU with a host of provisos . In fact the 39 billion pounds savings by leaving the EU was never denied and the weekly 300 million pounds saving was projected to the much needy NHS .

 

2 hours ago, smedly said:

you are getting confused, we haven't actually started to negotiate a trade deal yet, that comes next

 

The EU will stop at nothing to prevent us leaving - they do not want an independent UK competing against them because they no they will lose, and when others see how well the UK is doing they will want the same

 

The EU is sinking fast simply because they overstepped going from a trade block to a military and political empire - they are power mongers, it is the way Europe has been for centuries

 

we want out

What is the EU doing to stop the UK from leaving? Utter nonsense!

38 minutes ago, damascase said:

What is the EU doing to stop the UK from leaving? Utter nonsense!

...apart from colluding with B-liar & O(i)lly ROBins?

Here's JRM from a few days ago which some might find interesting:

 

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

There was nothing on the ballet paper about a deal. It was Leave or Remain. Leave clearly meant leaving the single market and customs union. Leave won, so if the EU and UK can't reach a deal then No Deal it is.

 

The only deal the EU will agree to is so bad for the UK that Leavers and Remain are united in rejecting it.

You wouldn't think that three simple words on a ballot paper could leave so much open to interpretation would you?

5 minutes ago, tebee said:

You wouldn't think that three simple words on a ballot paper could leave so much open to interpretation would you?

 

 

There was no interpretation of those 3 words that was necessary for the referendum...................... it's the debacle that followed where interpretation caused the fork up.

13 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Whether a person is for or against Brexit doesn't really matter at this point; crashing out of the EU without some agreement in place is irresponsible madness. It is the equivalent of moving out of one's flat without another place to live.

 

Never before have I seen a country so utterly determined to shoot itself in the crotch.

 

 

These MPs are a poor lot

 

About 1% worth the salary

 

Far far better standard of debate in The Lords.

 

The lower house is ripe for a major conflagration. Time for Sinn Fein?

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

These MPs are a poor lot

 

About 1% worth the salary

 

Far far better standard of debate in The Lords.

 

The lower house is ripe for a major conflagration. Time for Sinn Fein?

so, maybe HoC should be just scrapped

and foggy island left to be run by the Upper House

 

 

11 hours ago, soalbundy said:

French Champagne, will you be able to afford it ?

Is there another kind?

11 hours ago, vogie said:

"It was never their job to ‘help’ the UK out of the mess the UK got itself into"

 

Have you ever thought for one minute by not helping the UK, the EU are not helping themselves, is it a case of the EU cutting their nose off to spite their face. Make no mistake the EU desperately  wants a deal, it is getting to the stage of who blinks first, if Mrs May had won last night there was a good chance of a 'no deal' being taken off the table. A no deal is the only bargaining tool we have left, take that off the table we may all just lay down and get a good kicking. 

If MPs want the best for our country, they are certainly going the wrong way about it.

 

BS. No deal is a busted flush

 

The EU are not idiots

10 minutes ago, Grouse said:

BS. No deal is a busted flush

 

The EU are not idiots

So you're saying that the EU does not want deal, of course they want a deal, Europe is collapsing around them, going into recession and they don't want a deal. Keep flying their flag grouse, you may need it to wipe the egg off your face.