Buy a house when married = no control over it?

[Pilotman]

9 hours ago, jackdd said:

If the children default the loan, is the outstanding balance then considered a loss and can be deducted from your taxable income?

Not in the UK is my understanding. 

[BritManToo]

10 hours ago, Pilotman said:

We used funds in a UK joint account held in the UK, no problem proving it's my wife's money.  For our daughter,  she was loaned the money on a no interest basis by her parents (us), to be paid back over 20 years. All legit and notarised by the FBD London office.  

A family member will kill you, and do the time if they have to, then your legal documents will mean nothing.

Documents are no protection from your nearest and dearest in a lawless society.

[Pravda]

19 hours ago, snowgard said:

That is wrong!!!

Everything what is bought during the marriage is 100% yours if you have statements that it was paid with YOUR money what you had BEFORE you married. Only belongings what is bought with money what you/she earned in the marriages time is 50/50. 

 

Completely false at least in the case of property. Your spouse gets half of condo.

 

And a house? The same house you declared your wife was a sole source of income as otherwise it would be fraud?

 

You guys make me laugh with your fairytales  getting asthma attacks.

 

[baansgr]

On 2/18/2019 at 4:12 PM, bbz404 said:

OP can own the house legally. No issue whatsoever. Just go to the land office and get it registered under your name.

 

Land will remain in your wife's name as well as ownership of the land.

 

Land and house are two separate things.

And the house is worthless without the land it's built  on

[ThomasThBKK]

Just now, baansgr said:

And the house is worthless without the land it's built  on

 

 

a usufruct gives you the right to use the land till u die...

[Pravda]

Just now, ThomasThBKK said:

 

 

a usufruct gives you the right to use the land till u die...

 

To live in a house you can't sell with the rest of divorced Thai family. Nothing to worry about with THAT scenario.

 

Man , I really hope Big Joke cuts retirees some slack. You have been the absolute blessing for a Thai economy ????

[elliss]

14 hours ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

Get one of these “Baan Knockdown” homes.

They can build the house, then put it on your wifes land. You will own the house yourself, 100%. If things go bad between you and the wife, just pick up the house and move it somewhere else. ????

            Plan B , just pick up the wife , and move her somewhere else , as far away as poss. 

 

 

 

[Peterw42]

20 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

 

a usufruct gives you the right to use the land till u die...

A little hard if the owner has put a 12 foot wall around it, cut off the electricity (thats in the land owners name), has mortgaged the land to the bank and it gets repossessed.

 

[bbz404]

35 minutes ago, baansgr said:

And the house is worthless without the land it's built  on

Agreed

[xylophone]

19 hours ago, Pilotman said:

We used funds in a UK joint account held in the UK, no problem proving it's my wife's money.  For our daughter,  she was loaned the money on a no interest basis by her parents (us), to be paid back over 20 years. All legit and notarised by the FBD London office.  

It looks like the law firm have used a little bit of chicanery to get round certain aspects of company/property ownership, inasmuch as it was stated just a few years ago that the shareholders of the company must be Thai and have to show from whence their investment came.

 

This was done so that it would stop foreigners loaning money to Thais to become a shareholder, in order that they could have complete control over the company. In effect the shareholders were meant to be entirely separate from the foreign shareholder, especially where the funds were concerned, and it would appear that is not the case here.

 

I have read about similar setups, and although much money has been paid to these legal firms, and the accounts etc audited, this still remains against the spirit of the law........and who knows what the outcome could be if in-depth research was done or things turned to custard.

 

Irrespective of the above, as a foreigner, why would I want to invest in a country which only issues me a permit to stay on a yearly basis, makes me report every 90 days to immigration and can change these rules and regulations on a whim, declares that I cannot own land here (at least not legally), and has people in charge of policing the country, immigration and land offices who have been shown to be corrupt?

[Peterw42]

All of these Quasi legal "solutions", to flaunt the law, appear to use the same logic as "my aftershave is a tiger repellent", 100% success for everyone who uses it, until of course, the day you are attacked by a tiger.

[Pilotman]

2 minutes ago, xylophone said:

It looks like the law firm have used a little bit of chicanery to get round certain aspects of company/property ownership, inasmuch as it was stated just a few years ago that the shareholders of the company must be Thai and have to show from whence their investment came.

 

This was done so that it would stop foreigners loaning money to Thais to become a shareholder, in order that they could have complete control over the company. In effect the shareholders were meant to be entirely separate from the foreign shareholder, especially where the funds were concerned, and it would appear that is not the case here.

 

I have read about similar setups, and although much money has been paid to these legal firms, and the accounts etc audited, this still remains against the spirit of the law........and who knows what the outcome could be if in-depth research was done or things turned to custard.

 

Irrespective of the above, as a foreigner, why would I want to invest in a country which only issues me a permit to stay on a yearly basis, makes me report every 90 days to immigration and can change these rules and regulations on a whim, declares that I cannot own land here (at least not legally), and has people in charge of policing the country, immigration and land offices who have been shown to be corrupt?

That of course is incorrect,  The company must have the majority of the shares held by Thai citizens.  I trust that a large international law firm like Freshfields know that they are doing.  

[ThomasThBKK]

That of course is incorrect,  The company must have the majority of the shares held by Thai citizens.  I trust that a large international law firm like Freshfields know that they are doing.  

The majority of shares of course but not the majority of voting rights aka preference shares.

Thailand supports class a and b shares and the dbd registers them without issues....
It's standard business practice...

You don't put the house in there as a company asset or u would lose money while selling of course to the thai share holders...


Ahh i stop, doesn't make sense to discuss here anyway...

Yeah and freshfields prolly knows what they do... The guy just described it incorrectly.

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[ThomasThBKK]

A little hard if the owner has put a 12 foot wall around it, cut off the electricity (thats in the land owners name), has mortgaged the land to the bank and it gets repossessed.
 

No the landowner has no rights to do anything to the land, you are the only one that has a right to uwe the land. That's the whole point of the usufruct... And if he sells the land the new owner or the bank can't do shit either. And no one will give you money for it anyway...

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[Enki]

On 2/17/2019 at 7:15 AM, ThomasThBKK said:

You are out of luck if married if you want to protect your after marriage assets from your wife imo. 

 

 

 

No, he has to buy together with his wife, the wife the land and he the house. And the wife gives him the usufruct. 

[Enki]

On 2/18/2019 at 11:40 AM, puipuitom said:

a foreigner can NOT own a piece of land, so you have a house on the land of somebody else… tilll he/she does not allow you to enter it.

Yeah, but for that you either get a usufrunc together with the house or a simple "right to passage" together with the house. Stop the fear mongering if yo only know 10% about the topic.

[Enki]

22 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

You rent land that someone else owns and have built a structure on land that someone else owns.

No, he build a structure _he owns_

 

Read some laws. And unless you have a clear understanding, please stop giving _legal advice_ even if it is not considered "legal advice".

[KittenKong]

8 minutes ago, Benroon said:

and lonely

I would feel a bit sorry for anyone who can only avoid being lonely by giving their property away or by joining in business ventures with others. But there are indeed plenty of people like that here, and many of them have lost a bundle and ended up by either going home broke or jumping off a high balcony.

[KittenKong]

3 minutes ago, Benroon said:

If you are going to spend the rest of your life shitting yourself from the moment you get up in the morning because everyone's out to get you - you're going to have a pretty dreadful life !

You seem to be mistaking simple common sense for paranoia. And why do you imagine that everyone needs partners to be happy?

[Pilotman]

13 hours ago, henry15 said:

This is an illegal construction for foreigners.

Rubbish. 

[Pilotman]

Whenever this subject comes up, which seems to be every month, so much false information, nonsense, misinformation and bad advice is given that it is totally useless to anyone seeking usable advice and guidance.  There are even people posting here who think that internationally renowned law firms, and reputable Thai law firms, are all corrupt and even criminal.  Everyone suddenly becomes a Thai law expert.  Yea, right. 

On top of that, a large number of people who post on this subject appear to think that every marriage is doomed to failure and that Thai ladies and their families are out to get them, even as one poster stated, to kill them, so tie everything up so that these terrible murdering families can't get hold of your assets. Talk about paranoid. These people must live a life of utter misery and despondency, just waiting for someone to leg them over. Yes, bad things happen here.  Bad things happen to people in every country of the World, but linking a totally natural wish for a wife and husband to jointly own their own house, to a certainly that it all will fall apart, is sad beyond belief. My advice to anyone looking to own their own house in Thailand is to ignore most of what you read on forums and go to a reputable law firm and get the right advice.   

[Pravda]

Just now, Pilotman said:

totally natural wish for a wife and husband to jointly own their own house

 

Not in Thailand. Get over it

[elliss]

2 hours ago, Pilotman said:

That of course is incorrect,  The company must have the majority of the shares held by Thai citizens.  I trust that a large international law firm like Freshfields know that they are doing.  

 

         Really ,

 Thailand is ruled by a unaccountable  military junta/ Goverment , 

who  can change the rules, at the stoke of a pen, within minutes. 

Law firm Freshfields ,  must have the Thai Goverment shuddering, tanks and all.

     

 

[ThomasThBKK]

yeah sure if they want to bugger off every foreign joint venture here, crash over the whole economy and destroy the whole real estate market making all land and thai property companies pretty much worthless and bugger off all thai hisos while doing so .... they can do that....

 

 

 

Meanwhile WW3 can start and we can be as likely bend over, all these nightmare scenarios can happen everywhere and are so non sense to even discuss here...

 

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, Benroon said:

To rule out an entire country to do business with, an economy worth £455B says more about your lack of business skills than it does Thais

Not really. I have much better and safer investments elsewhere.

[baansgr]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

 

I had an interesting conversation with a hi-so Thai lady in Chiang Rai, who owns various businesses and tea plantations along with her husband. She told me, in excellent English, that "Thai people do not trust other Thai people". The quote from Kitten Kong might be a bit extreme but it may indeed be well founded. 

 

I see no issue with a foreigner with a wife and child buying or building a house in his wife's name, that will be handed down to the children. I suspect it would be cheaper than a UK or US divorce. The key point is to ensure that you have enough funds to re-establish should the relationship go wrong ... going "all in" might be something you regret later. As most foreigners are either retired or getting close to retirement they do not have the time to recover from a serious financial set back. A younger foreigner might be okay. 

 

 

 

The problem   the Thai wife will sell or hok the property to the hilt and palm the kids off to the grandparents in the jungle. It's the good nature and western culture  that Thais take advantage of.  Anyone that was pee poor till they met their foreigner husband thinks a few million will last a lifetime....as we know it doesn't.  I lost a hell of a lot and left with three kids, luckily  I worked here and had sufficient  savings but most guys don't. It's a serious  problem  here and there isnt anyway to get round owning property except foreig named condos. I could list hundreds of examples over the years of guys loosing everything. Forget lawyers, they will tell you anything to get money. Anyone buying property  here in wife's name etc needs their head tested. 

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

The problem   the Thai wife will sell or hok the property to the hilt and palm the kids off to the grandparents in the jungle. It's the good nature and western culture  that Thais take advantage of.  Anyone that was pee poor till they met their foreigner husband thinks a few million will last a lifetime....as we know it doesn't.  I lost a hell of a lot and left with three kids, luckily  I worked here and had sufficient  savings but most guys don't. It's a serious  problem  here and there isnt anyway to get round owning property except foreig named condos. I could list hundreds of examples over the years of guys loosing everything. Forget lawyers, they will tell you anything to get money. Anyone buying property  here in wife's name etc needs their head tested. 

 

You're kind of presuming that everyone marries a rice farmers daughter turned go go dancer? There are definite risks in going "all-in", that's a gamble too far, no matter who you marry or have a relationship with. But not all Thai's married to foreigners will do that. My main point was that it's okay as long as the foreigner has plenty of money to start again should things go wrong. So anything the wife gets is a fraction of your net worth. 

 

 

 

[xylophone]

13 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

The majority of shares of course but not the majority of voting rights aka preference shares.

Thailand supports class a and b shares and the dbd registers them without issues....
It's standard business practice...

You don't put the house in there as a company asset or u would lose money while selling of course to the thai share holders...


Ahh i stop, doesn't make sense to discuss here anyway...

Yeah and freshfields prolly knows what they do... The guy just described it incorrectly.

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk
 

Well Thailand being what it is, many law firms will set up a construct of shareholding chicanery for the right money.

 

My point, which I didn't make clear, is that although Thai shareholders are required for a company, the funding for those shareholders should not come from "within" the company and should be separate. If one steps back one can see that the funding is a "merry go round" of the funds and not as was intended by law.

 

Anyway off topic and has been discussed ad-nauseam on other threads and if the "owners" of such constructs are satisfied with what they have........then "up to them".

[Ahab]

Probably best to build a modest house for less than 1-2 million baht, live in it while things are good. If the relationship goes south, move on and write off the house as a lesson. Better still is to rent something for a year or two and then decide if buying a house (basically for your partner) is something that you still think is a good idea. Rent, don't buy is a phrase worth heeding here in Thailand, or anywhere else for that matter if you technically cannot own the land.

[baansgr]

8 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

You're kind of presuming that everyone marries a rice farmers daughter turned go go dancer? There are definite risks in going "all-in", that's a gamble too far, no matter who you marry or have a relationship with. But not all Thai's married to foreigners will do that. My main point was that it's okay as long as the foreigner has plenty of money to start again should things go wrong. So anything the wife gets is a fraction of your net worth. 

 

 

 

"Bangkok Thais" are just the same.