Solar power is it worth it

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, eisfeld said:

First time I've seen "Suoer". They are not on the PEA tested list. You mentioned it will take 2 strings but I see only one PV input. Also make sure you connect the panels in the right way as I see the max input voltage of that inverter is quite low at 105V so two panels in series max. Again I'd go with something cheap but known like INVT. Price for the inverter will also depend on the amount of phases in the property. I still would suggest a breaker on the AC side.

I already have a 600w Suoer GTI, it's worked quite well the past 8 months with no problems so far.

My breakers are the MC4 connectors on the panel side, and the plug on the 220V side, no need to double up.

 

As for professional installers, good luck finding anyone that won't wreck your roof in Thailand.

And electricity ...... Somchai couldn't even connect the live and neutral the right way round into my house when they built the estate. 

 

[Bandersnatch]

The big ticket items on my solar system:

 

Solar panels Monocrystalline 350W X32 = 11.2kW ฿3,500 each = ฿112,000

Deep Cycle Gel Batteries 12V 200AH X 16 = 38.4kWH with cable and rack ฿13,250 each =  ฿212,000

Off Hybrid Grid  Inverter Power: 10,000W = ฿96,000

 

My electricity bills are zero  - payback is about 10 years (assuming prices don't rise -which they will) or 10% - try getting that these days. I also enjoy having power when the lights go out in the village. 

 

Video of the panels 

 

 

More pictures on my blog ecoHouseThailand.com

 

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

1 minute ago, Arjen said:

I hope that your batteries last ten years. I also had deep Cycle Gel batteries. 20 pieces 100Ah The last around 5 years. I have ordered now LiFePo4 bateries. 16 pieces 3.6V280Ah. According the specs they should give at at least 5.000 cycles.

 

The depth of discharge has a great deal to do with battery life. My Hybrid Inverter is set to draw from the grid when the batteries reach 50% state of charge. I usually have about 60% when they start charging again at 6am

[Yellowtail]

Do you guys refrigerate the batteries?

[Bandersnatch]

13 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Do you guys refrigerate the batteries?

 

I designed my house from the ground up to be Off-Grid. I have a dedicated mechanical room which is insulated and well ventilated. I installed a large DC motor ceiling fan. The purpose built battery rack allows lots of air flow. I have not seen any drop in battery performance over the last 12 month. 

[taninthai]

On 5/8/2020 at 11:30 AM, Bandersnatch said:

The big ticket items on my solar system:

 

Solar panels Monocrystalline 350W X32 = 11.2kW ฿3,500 each = ฿112,000

Deep Cycle Gel Batteries 12V 200AH X 16 = 38.4kWH with cable and rack ฿13,250 each =  ฿212,000

Off Hybrid Grid  Inverter Power: 10,000W = ฿96,000

 

My electricity bills are zero  - payback is about 10 years (assuming prices don't rise -which they will) or 10% - try getting that these days. I also enjoy having power when the lights go out in the village. 

 

Video of the panels 

 

 

More pictures on my blog ecoHouseThailand.com

 

 

 

Just looked through your blog ......wow great build ,but not for me  I got away from Europe because I don’t like being shut in a house all day in the dark with no fresh air.......prefer to live more outside style in the tropics,,,each to there own and nice blog.

good job at the school with solar pump????????

[BritManToo]

On 5/8/2020 at 11:30 AM, Bandersnatch said:

My electricity bills are zero  - payback is about 10 years (assuming prices don't rise -which they will) or 10% - try getting that these days. I also enjoy having power when the lights go out in the village. 

Seems unlikely.

Panels produce 1KWhr/day (or less), so at best you will get 32 units/day.

I currently have a 3 bed house with no aircon and use 30 units/day.

Assuming you use electricity at night, your batteries will lose 2-4 units a day due to inefficiency.

 

I'm wondering how your electricity bills can be zero?

[eisfeld]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Seems unlikely.

Panels produce 1KWhr/day (or less), so at best you will get 32 units/day.

I currently have a 3 bed house with no aircon and use 30 units/day.

Assuming you use electricity at night, your batteries will lose 2-4 units a day due to inefficiency.

 

I'm wondering how your electricity bills can be zero?

I tried to tell you a couple times your numbers are off. Maybe because your inverter is inefficient, I dunno. His panels will create much more than 1 kWh per day per panel. His total system can produce more than 50 kWh on a really good day. On average I would expect roughly 40 kWh per day over a year depending on weather in his region or dust polution.

 

Your consumption of 30 kWh per day for a 3 bed house with no aircon means you probably have a high consumption via pool pump? His house has no pool as far as I can see and on top he paid a LOT of attention to efficiency all around which can make a world of a difference. I disagree with the placement of his panels, I think he could get more out of them by not putting any on the north facing side but the rest was very impressive.

 

@Bandersnatch I'd love to see some stats from your system!

[CGW]

On 5/12/2020 at 1:12 PM, taninthai said:

The big ticket items on my solar system:

Well done, great job, I remain unconvinced on the economics but regardless - you have done a great job and should be proud of your achievement. ????

[Crossy]

@eisfeld our 8 * 300W panels also produce about 1 unit per day each (grid-tie, at the grid connection). Panels are not ideally located, south facing but the angle is a bit shallow and they get shaded by the house later in the day. Even so, as a DIY install we are looking at payback within 4 years.

 

Live data here https://thingspeak.com/channels/991448

 

I think we would all like to see some figures from @Bandersnatch

 

[BritManToo]

It's the 14th, and my two panels have made 29 units, even though it's been raining and overcast a bit.

Still a steady supply,

 

Thinking of getting a hybrid + battery + two more panels, and splitting the living room off the mains, so the whole living room will be a giant UPS. 3kva hybrid would be around 8k, another 8k for the panels, 5k for 100ah battery, around 20k in total.

[Crossy]

Yeah, 13.5 units per panel for this month. Not complaining.

 

[eisfeld]

4 hours ago, Crossy said:

@eisfeld our 8 * 300W panels also produce about 1 unit per day each (grid-tie, at the grid connection). Panels are not ideally located, south facing but the angle is a bit shallow and they get shaded by the house later in the day. Even so, as a DIY install we are looking at payback within 4 years.

 

Live data here https://thingspeak.com/channels/991448

 

 

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

It's the 14th, and my two panels have made 29 units, even though it's been raining and overcast a bit.

Still a steady supply,

 

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

Yeah, 13.5 units per panel for this month. Not complaining.

 

I think we should move away from "per panel" measures because there are many different panels. I know people with 270W panels and I have seen 475W panels. The differences between them are too big to make that a useful unit.

 

That being said, my 12*330W panels produced 233.2 kWh this month which comes down to 1.39 kWh per panel. Last month it was 1.46 kWh per panel (526 units total).

 

A more useful metric is kWh per kWp. In my case for the current month that would be 4.20 kWh/kWp and last month 4.42 kWh/kWp.

 

Averaged over a year I expect it to be between 3.6 and 3.8.

 

BritManToo's 29 units with two (330W?) panels comes down to 3.14 this month and Crossy's ~112 units (can't see current months total in your interface) would come down to 3.33. I would suspect the shading as mentioned to be the biggest cause of loss. I have extremely little shading just in the early morning hours, have southward facing panels at about 15 degrees tilt.

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

I think we should move away from "per panel" measures because there are many different panels. I know people with 270W panels and I have seen 475W panels. The differences between them are too big to make that a useful unit.

I would say the exact opposite, the differences are trivial in the real world.

The different labels stuck to the sides of the 2m x 1m panels appear to mean nothing.

Certainly the 300w, 330w and 350w panels appear to have the same outputs.

 

You're claiming 44 units per 330w panel for last month (I got 29 units).

That's 50% more productive than mine, I don't believe you.

[pineapple01]

They are interesting and like Swimming Pools give you something to do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[eisfeld]

12 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I would say the exact opposite, the differences are trivial in the real world.

The different labels stuck to the sides of the 2m x 1m panels appear to mean nothing.

Certainly the 300w, 330w and 350w panels appear to have the same outputs.

Maybe for no-name panels. The brand panels I have looked at match their specs pretty well. What do you think would happen if that were not the case? You think someone buying thousands of panels for a bigger system will accept a double digit percent deviation from spec? No way. In fact they come with efficiency warranties so if output is too low, the panels go right back for RMA. That's why one pays more for these panels.

[BritManToo]

Just now, eisfeld said:

Maybe for no-name panels. The brand panels I have looked at match their specs pretty well. What do you think would happen if that were not the case? You think someone buying thousands of panels for a bigger system will accept a double digit deviation from spec? No way. In fact they come with efficiency warranties so if output is too low, the panels go right back for RMA. That's why one pays more for these panels.

I think in Thailand nobody (in authority) would give a damn.

And good luck getting a warranty replacement from a supplier that will have a different name next year.

 

It's almost as if you don't live in Thailand!

[eisfeld]

26 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I think in Thailand nobody (in authority) would give a damn.

And good luck getting a warranty replacement from a supplier that will have a different name next year.

 

It's almost as if you don't live in Thailand!

What does it have to do with authorities? I am talking about companies that spends millions of dollars on solar panels. They very much give a damn. And yes, you will get a warranty replacement from the Tier 1 suppliers no problem. They are not like your random fly by night operation. You think a company like Jinko which has been around for 14 years and has over 13k employees will play funny games? They have a name to lose.

 

It's almost as if you've never dealt with serious businesses!

[Yellowtail]

Most big companies installing solar are doing so more for PR than as an investment.

[eisfeld]

36 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Most big companies installing solar are doing so more for PR than as an investment.

I doubt that. I know many who do it primarily as an investment. PR/CSR is a secondary benefit. Any installation of decent size will bring considerable savings. It's common to be able to save more than 100M baht over the project lifetime with commercial sized solar systems.

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, eisfeld said:

I doubt that. I know many who do it primarily as an investment.

 

For example?

[BritManToo]

9 hours ago, eisfeld said:

You think a company like Jinko which has been around for 14 years

It's almost as if you've never dealt with serious businesses!

Where are the photos of your home system?

It's almost as if you're a salesman and not an enthusiast.

[pineapple01]

Getting into waffle talk ,Corporations, primary investment, jeez yer cant save much here cause Electrics cheap,not one mention about bird poop cleaning or everyday downsides

[BritManToo]

Just now, pineapple01 said:

Getting into waffle talk ,Corporations, primary investment, jeez yer cant save much here cause Electrics cheap,not one mention about bird poop cleaning or everyday downsides

Actually this month has been good for cleaning, storms have washed my panels clean.

I usually have to go up a ladder and wipe them down every month (which is why mine are on a wall and not the roof).

Never much problem with bird poop, but the particle pollution in CM would completely cover them in two months.

[pineapple01]

Low Tech Magazine is worth a Google. The ugly side of Solar Panals. Being a people observer there are 3 types of reactions to say their new Solar or Inverter Air Con. Theres mine. Well the old one broke. Best Mate.I had the same as Him. Finaly the one we were all waiting to join us. Mr Fan Boy. The one whose Fortuna uses less fuel than my Weed Whacker We sit shamefaced behind our Sunday Beer not knowing how much we have saved as he announces his saving will pay for the new unit in 12 Months.????

[BritManToo]

35 minutes ago, pineapple01 said:

Mr Fan Boy.

Low-Tech Mag. https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2008/03/the-ugly-side-o.html

Can't say I really care about carbon, depends if you're betting on the sun getting hotter or colder.

 

On these forums 'Mr Fan Boy' is usually a shill touting for customers/investors for his new 'solar installation' business venture. There appear to be two on this thread, although it might only be one with two accounts.

 

I know Crossy is for real, and I know I am for real, surprisingly our solar power production outputs match almost exactly, although he's been a bit more unlucky with his GTIs than me (overheating and two unit failures in the first couple of months due to power outs). Nobody else on these threads seem keen to post photos of their home systems, barring one that appears to be a sales brochure.

[Yellowtail]

My daddy always said: "Don't ask somebody that HAS one, ask somebody that HAD one."

[pineapple01]

Had mine put in the Junk Truck last month. 16 years old, just another of my good ideas at the time bit the dust.Anything appertaining to a Battery has this habit of detecting me and going flat in no time. Even a Wall Clock.!

[Crossy]

I'd really like to see what other people are getting in real life. Proper numbers and graphs, not "I'm getting Xyz" with nothing to back it up.

 

I cannot possibly be the only person placing live data on the net for a simple home system, can I?

 

[pineapple01]

 I got my plan from my old EGAT friend, for something to do. Some specs, brands and finer details would present a better read.