4 hours ago, vogie said:

That's all well and good, but some of us don't want the head chef telling us what to eat, what colour to paint our house and what flowers to grow in my garden.

Hard Brexit gets you weeds.

2 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Brexiteer Whine Steward.

Remainer Bar Steward?

What opinions on the Kyle amendment? This might be a solution. Am I missing something?

5 hours ago, Loiner said:

There has been no dinner, so nothing to pay for. The 39 Bn is to pay for future club membership, after we have ‘left’ the club. That’s only IF they can con enough of Parliament into their deal.
Until then we are off, and taking you all with us. Enjoy the ride.



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On 11^th December 2017, the Prime Minister confirmed that the UK and the EU have agreed “the scope of commitments, and methods for valuations and adjustments to those values.” The calculations are an estimate of the UK’s commitments to the EU, valued according to a set of agreed principles.  The bill is made up of:

• The UK’s contribution to EU annual budgets up to 2020;
• Payment of outstanding commitments; and
• Financing liabilities up to the end of 2020.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-divorce-bill/

The confusion here may be that the life-cycle of the annual EU budget covers the period 2014-2020.

https://www.fun-mooc.fr/c4x/CoR/114001/asset/Factsheet_EU_Budget.pdf

Whereas nations typically plan for a one-year time span for their own governance.

Thus, the UK made its budget commitment to the EU prior to its Brexit plans. Just because the UK decides its wants to now leave the EU on or before 2020, it must meet its prior financial obligations.

46 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

On 11^th December 2017, the Prime Minister confirmed that the UK and the EU have agreed “the scope of commitments, and methods for valuations and adjustments to those values.” The calculations are an estimate of the UK’s commitments to the EU, valued according to a set of agreed principles.  The bill is made up of:

• The UK’s contribution to EU annual budgets up to 2020;
• Payment of outstanding commitments; and
• Financing liabilities up to the end of 2020.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-divorce-bill/

The confusion here may be that the life-cycle of the annual EU budget covers the period 2014-2020.

https://www.fun-mooc.fr/c4x/CoR/114001/asset/Factsheet_EU_Budget.pdf

Whereas nations typically plan for a one-year time span for their own governance.

Thus, the UK made its budget commitment to the EU prior to its Brexit plans. Just because the UK decides its wants to now leave the EU on or before 2020, it must meet its prior financial obligations.

But that is not even close to explaining how they arrived at a figure of 39 bn!

 

Odd that neither May or the eu have produced a calculation as to these 'commitments' .....

46 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

But that is not even close to explaining how they arrived at a figure of 39 bn!

 

Odd that neither May or the eu have produced a calculation as to these 'commitments' .....

That is wrong.

Of course, experts from the UK and the EU have exchanged views and checked the invoices. There are over 10.000th of individual positions.

 

To understand this, you have to know that the EU is already spending money, which it does not have yet. EU budgets run over 7 years.

 

Generally it is about 3 big blocks.

 

First, the EU has open accounts to be borne by the UK. These are financial obligations that have been entered into bindingly, without the amounts have already been paid. They come from EU projects that run for several years (especially the Cohesion Funds, which benefit the weaker regions). In total, there are amounts of more than 200 billion euros across the EU.

 

The second chunk of between € 150bn and € 170bn is made up of commitments under these funds and other programs, as envisaged by the current EU financial framework for 2019 and 2020 (ie after Brexit).

 

Thirdly, it is also necessary to fill the pot from which the pensions of all EU officials are paid. By the end of 2015, nearly 64 billion euros had been committed. There are also additional side posts.

 

But the EU certainly agrees to completely cancel Nigel Farage's pension. This could save the UK the first million.

Edited February 22, 20197 yr by tomacht8

11 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

That is wrong.

Of course, experts from the UK and the EU have exchanged views and checked the invoices. There are over 10.000th of individual positions.

 

To understand this, you have to know that the EU is already spending money, which it does not have yet. EU budgets are over 7 years old.

 

Generally it is about 3 big blocks.

 

First, the EU has open accounts to be borne by the UK. These are financial obligations that have been entered into bindingly, without the amounts have already been paid. They come from EU projects that run for several years (especially the Cohesion Funds, which benefit the weaker regions). In total, there are amounts of more than 200 billion euros across the EU.

 

The second chunk of between € 150bn and € 170bn is made up of commitments under these funds and other programs, as envisaged by the current EU financial framework for 2019 and 2020 (ie after Brexit).

 

Thirdly, it is also necessary to fill the pot from which the pensions of all EU officials are paid. By the end of 2015, nearly 64 billion euros had been committed. There are also additional side posts.

 

But the EU certainly agrees to completely cancel Nigel Farage's pension. This could save the UK the first million.

So where are the calculations as to how the uk owes the eu 39bn?  Both sides have been extremely quiet on this subject....

 

As to pensions, a member only pays contributions towards employees' contributions until they leave.  Why on earth would they continue to contribute thereafter?

Edited February 22, 20197 yr by dick dasterdly

6 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

Another time you are wrong. 

It's not the "head-chef" (I presume you mean Junker?) who decides! 

Decisions are made by all members. One country one vote. And if ALL members decide houses to be painted in red, then unfortunately YOU have to follow. This is called democracy. There are of course bureaucrats in Brussels, but.... They send by the national governments, acting for them in consence. 

Just to let you know that you are talking to a wall, they will never accept anybody else's opinion unless you agree with them .... And now we may have a better idea why their on fail, all about their stubbornness

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

So where are the calculations as to how the uk owes the eu 39bn?  Both sides have been extremely quiet on this subject....

 

As to pensions, a member only pays contributions towards employees' contributions until they leave.  Why on earth would they continue to contribute thereafter?

The pension liabilities are extrapolated with the mortality tables. 

Every company creates provisions for this.

The UK has signed the pension liabilities. These debts must be fulfilled in 20, 30, ... years, when the pension case occurs.

The net asset value of this pension is then discounted to a reference date to determine the present value of the pension. Procedures for this can be found, for example, in the IAS.

 

A framework has been developed by the experts of the UK and the EU. The 39 billion are the rough frame. Within this framework, the detailed and fine calculations are carried out.

That will end up being a really big book with some hundred thousand pages.

When it's done and there's consensus, it will surely be published.

 

Edited February 22, 20197 yr by tomacht8

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

As to pensions, a member only pays contributions towards employees' contributions until they leave.  Why on earth would they continue to contribute thereafter?

This is the employer's contribution, not the employee. This liability carries forward. If you think otherwise, do have a word with Philip Green re BhS.

Edited February 22, 20197 yr by SheungWan

12 hours ago, Mavideol said:

Just to let you know that you are talking to a wall, they will never accept anybody else's opinion unless you agree with them .... And now we may have a better idea why their on fail, all about their stubbornness

And of course we all know that remainers opinions are the only ones that matters.

11 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

The pension liabilities are extrapolated with the mortality tables. 

Every company creates provisions for this.

The UK has signed the pension liabilities. These debts must be fulfilled in 20, 30, ... years, when the pension case occurs.

The net asset value of this pension is then discounted to a reference date to determine the present value of the pension. Procedures for this can be found, for example, in the IAS.

 

A framework has been developed by the experts of the UK and the EU. The 39 billion are the rough frame. Within this framework, the detailed and fine calculations are carried out.

That will end up being a really big book with some hundred thousand pages.

When it's done and there's consensus, it will surely be published.

 

That’s already too many technical terms for the average Brexiteer to understand. Remember, Brexiteers only believe what’s communicated to them through YouTube clips or big letters on a bus, and it must be very simple; anything that’s more complex than imagining May and Juncker throwing two dices to come up with a number is beyond their intellectual horizon. 

16 hours ago, Enoon said:

What's your problem?

The mafia EU bosses they've being saying things like this from the start.

If someone like Maggie had of been in charge the UK would of been out already deal or no deal.