Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes

[Jingthing]

I 

41 minutes ago, swissie said:

Let's see:
- Ecuador is in in turmoil (civil unrest).
- Chile is in turmoil (civil unrest).
- Bolivia is in turmoil (civil unrest).
- Argentina has gone bankrupt (once more).
- Uruguay (on the verge of civil unrest). Stay tuned. (The former "Switzerland" of South-America!) - Paraguay. Still a 4th world country.
- Columbia. Unresolved past issues concering "the Guerillas". The problem likely to re-emerge with a vengeance.
- Mexico: 2 Governements in place. The one in Mexico-City and the other one that controls the rest of the country.
- Venezuela: Ground-Floor opportunities if you arrive with suitcases packed with US$. (Real-Estate bargains plentyful).
- Dutch and French Guinea: = European territory.
- Central America ( Honduras, Guatemala, Panama etc, ect). = Dancing on a political/sociological Vulcano in the past, at present and in the future. A fine example of "failed-states".
- The carribean islands. With the exception of Haiti, firmly in the hands of well-capitalised Farangs. No place for anyone relying on some meager monthly "pension-money" from back home.
Considering all this, I myself  would find little reason to re-locate to any of the above mentioned countries.

Especially not, as Thai legislation concerning Long-Term Residency is still quite "liberal and benevolent" in comparison  to most SA Countries.
PS: The Palm Trees of Thailand look the same as the Palm Trees in Costa-Rica. But more affordable in Thailand. I insist.

--------------------
Not wanting to appear as a "party-pooper", but this is a good time to realise that the days when desease-free Immigrants arriving at Eliss-Island were unburocratically welcomed in the US (same Canada, Australia and just about any other country of the world) are definitely a thing of the past.
These days, one must fulfill certain "requirements", no matter where one wants to Emmigrate to.
"Requirements" can be translated into "How deep are your pockets, how fat is your wallet"?
Let's face it!
Cheers.    

 

 

Some pretty ridiculous exaggerations, omissions, and generalizations there. 

 

If you're sold on Thailand forever that's your right but that doesn't mean that there aren't decent options elsewhere for many. 

 

I do agree there aren't many global expat retirement options for those with low or modest pensions. Those with more generous pensions or optionally great wealth have many more choices. But Latin America still does have options for those with low or modest pensions more than any other region. 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Jingthing

[sanemax]

8 Months you have been thinking about it .

Just face it, you aint going anywhere otherwise you would have gone by now

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, sanemax said:

8 Months you have been thinking about it .

Just face it, you aint going anywhere otherwise you would have gone by now

If you say so.

 

I don't respond to such troll posts as I've already posted multiple times explaining the reasons for my interest in considering a Plan B in Latin America. 

 

So do you have any interest in the topic or are you just posting to heckle? 

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If you say so.

 

I don't respond to such troll posts as I've already posted multiple times explaining the reasons for my interest in considering a Plan B in Latin America. 

 

So do you have any interest in the topic or are you just posting to heckle? 

Well no, since you started this thread, I have already emigrated twice and am thinking about emigrating once again .

  If you were going to go anywhere , you would have already gone 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

Well no, since you started this thread, I have already emigrated twice and am thinking about emigrating once again .

  If you were going to go anywhere , you would have already gone 

Now fully confirmed by you that you have no interest in this topic.

 

Why people with no interest in the topic feel compelled to post on it is quite strange. 

 

 

. 

 

 

 

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Now fully confirmed by you that you have no interest in this topic.

 

Why people with no interest in the topic feel compelled to post on it is quite strange. 

 

 

. 

 

 

 

I may emigrate to South America next  , I've already emigrated to Vietnam/Asia and England\Europe since this thread began 

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I may emigrate to South America next  , I've already emigrated to Vietnam/Asia and England\Europe since this thread began 

OK. Good. Then I misunderstood you. I thought you just said you're not interested in Latin America. I wouldn't call such short stays emigrating though. 

 

So which specific Latin American countries interest you and what's your interest in moving there? Another short stay or something else?

[Bournville]

On 10/16/2019 at 6:05 PM, Odysseus123 said:

Hi Jinghthing,

 

I was being light heartedf but in my travels thru' South America my impression was that the middle-class Spanish speaking inhabitants would eat -in terms of culture and education-the average "Farang" living in Thailand for breakfast.

Let's face it-most of them are blue collar industrialised serfs,obsessed with purchaseable sex and cheap food and housing.

 

Chile,for example,has an extremely robust culture which would eviscerate the average American fom Alabama,the Brit from Manchester or the Aussie from Blacktown-leaving them no alternative but to stick with SE Asia,which is sick of them anyway.

I am glad to see that there is another expat here in Thailand who feels the same way. For a really BIG sample of those type of expats your speaking of...earlier this year i was in KUTA, Bali. Oh my god... the Ozzie Bogans there reminded me why my 10 pound Pom days were over after just 2 years in Sydney and I setup home in California in 1974. Lucky me.

 

I lived in Mexico before Thailand and yes, generally speaking Mexicans have culture and class and have opinions about the world around them. Not just Mexico..but the world! Try having that sort of conversation with an average Thai!!

 

However just because Thai people are generally not Wordly doesn't mean they have to be treated with disrespect and put up with terrible farang behaviour. These low class farang here are a big factor with Thailand Immigration and local Thai´s being very, very wary of ALL expats. Yes. Thailand is probably sick of expats now.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Bournville

[Bournville]

On 10/23/2019 at 3:06 PM, Jingthing said:

This couple makes a strong case for why THEY chose Cuenca Ecuador. I think it's worth watching if Cuenca is on your radar. 

 

 

The reasons I have against Cuenca are (just based on reaseach as I haven't been there):

 

-- The weather isn't as mild as the promoters suggest. It often gets quite chilly in those unheated apartments and houses. 

 

-- Gringo price gouging too common

 

-- Air pollution

 

-- Elevation too darned high. It's over the elevation that causes serious health problems for many. 

 

-- Visa issues. Practical timing issues with having the police record documentation from Thailand. Could turn out to be a massively expensive problem for some. 

 

-- Guinea pig as food. No thanks.

 

That said one thing I don't take very seriously as a negative is the recent political unrest there. Those kinds of things come and go and usually don't really matter that much to expats in the long run with exceptions of course (such as Venezuela). 

Yes. All of your points are spot on regarding Ecuador. I was there for 3 weeks in June 2013. The weather was a big surprise for me.. Low clouds.. Chilly and drizzle for many days. The food is also awful. Now add the civil unrest. No thanks to. Ecuador 

[Bournville]

On 10/27/2019 at 6:36 AM, Mike Teavee said:

>>>Skip this part if you have no interest in Malaysia/Philippines

In 2015 I took a redundancy package & spent 15 months using KL (Petaling Jaya) as my base to travel the region from (really enjoyed staying there) I think you may be mistaken about 6 months,  [as a brit] you get 90 days on arrival & there aren't any visas you can apply for except work permit or MM2H (Which as you've alluded to has much higher financial requirements than Thailand)

 

But If I wanted to spend part of my year in Malaysia, it would be in Penang, easy enough to do a Visa run to Thailand from there ???? 

 

As an aside, I have friends who work in KL & have "heard" (cannot find anything to confirm) that they're starting to clamp down on people living there on Visa Exempts, not sure how true this is or whether it would be a problem if you're only living there part of the time, but something to keep in mind/an eye on (Get an MM2H or have a "Plan B"). 

 

Oh & similar in Philippines where they're already looking at putting a cap on the length of time you can extend a Visa on Arrival (NB, as with Thailand, this is the visa that people from countries like India & China get, not to be confused with the Visa Exempt that westerners typically get), again, something to stay on top of (get an SRRV or have a "Plan B")

<<<

 

 

Back to LATAM, I'm retiring sometime within the next 1-3 months & so am looking at visiting a number of countries there with Columbia (& Costa Rica) being top of the list, came across an informative site on getting a long stay visa for Columbia that might be of interest https://medellinguru.com/colombian-visa/

 

Edit to add: Would appreciate any tips on the best way to get from Asia to Columba (Yes I know "By Plane")... Happy to take my time/meander my way there & visit a few interesting places on the way but am really struggling to pick a route & whether to go West-East or East-West (Would prefer the later as I've never gone further than New Zealand flying that way)

 

I fly BKK to Mexico city on China Southern. Check my 2x 23kg suitcases on one end and see them again at my final destination. About 700 usd each way.. Time of year and direction are factors. 

 

Then from MEX to CO. That's the only way I know of. 

[Bournville]

On 11/1/2019 at 10:54 PM, Jingthing said:

You can laugh!

I can cry!

COLOMBIA is in the process of potential major visa changes that for me would ELIMINATE Colombia as a possibility for me. 

 

I guess I can rationalize my disappointment by saying I would have hated living in a bland food country anyway!

 

To wit --

 

Increase in financial requirements (pension) for retirement status. 

It's over my level. So if passed -- game over for me.

 

(Will the old levels be grandfathered? Maybe. That will be something for people to watch.)

 

Tightening (more like typical Latin American normalization) of other things, police background checks, medical screening of some kind, etc.

 

So super easy almost too good to be true -- well, it was. 

 

Will see the specifics of the law if passed, but likely means no Colombia for me. I have obviously been most interested in Colombia. 

 

So that does leave some choices in Latin America that I am less excited about that I can still financially qualify for in order of highest to lowest interest --

 

Mexico

Ecuador

Panama

Peru

 

I still remain unclear on the Mexican retirement visa specific process but I think it can be handled by showing money in the bank in a similar way to Thailand but with an eventual path towards permanent residence (unlike Thailand). 

 

Ecuador with previous mentioned pros and cons does offer the buy in to their national health system but I don't think it's as good as in Colombia (and more serious financial issues as well). 

Apply for a Temporary Resident visa at a MX consul in any country you reside in. Wait 4 years.. You automatically get your permanent resident status, which is what I already have. The financial requirements I haven't kept up with.. 1400 USD per month maybe? 

[JimmyJ]

4 hours ago, Bournville said:

I fly BKK to Mexico city on China Southern. f. 

What is your experience using that airline?

[Bournville]

50 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

What is your experience using that airline?

Used them on that route 10 times over 4 years.. No complaints... Excellent service in the plane. 

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, Bournville said:

Apply for a Temporary Resident visa at a MX consul in any country you reside in. Wait 4 years.. You automatically get your permanent resident status, which is what I already have. The financial requirements I haven't kept up with.. 1400 USD per month maybe? 

Hi there.

Cool. You definitely know something about this.

I'm under the Mexican pension level but they have a show money option for temporary (and even permanent). Something like 30K USD which is coincidentally close to 800K baht. So you got your temporary thing first year, but then after that you need to reapply every year for the next four years, right? In Mexico? What did you need besides the financial requirements? Did you need police background reports from home country and Thailand (if you lived in Thailand) or any other expat country you've been living in? 

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, Bournville said:

Used them on that route 10 times over 4 years.. No complaints... Excellent service in the plane. 

Flying from Colombia via Mexico to Thailand, were you asked to show a YELLOW FEVER vaccine certificate?

[Jingthing]

Tragic news from Nothern Mexico.

I'll post this proactively as if I don't someone else will probably to suggest that Mexico in general is too dangerous for expats.

But usual expats wouldn't be moving anywhere near where this happened and they were from a dual citizen Mormon community that had a history of conflict with the drug cartels. 

That said this will be a big news story going forward and as indicated in the link, will likely have an impact on U.S. - Mexico relations in general.

 

Quote

 

Nine members of Mormon family with U.S. citizenship killed in attack in northern Mexico; Trump offers military support

 

 

MEXICO CITY — Assailants have killed at least nine members of a Mormon family in northern Mexico, authorities reported Tuesday, burning alive a woman and her children in a brutal assault that highlighted the growing danger posed by organized-crime groups around the country.

Alfonso Durazo, the minister of public security, told a news conference that the victims were three women and six children. They were part of a community of dual U.S.-Mexican citizens.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/at-least-seven-members-of-mormon-family-brutally-killed-in-northern-mexico/2019/11/05/d303e448-ffbb-11e9-9518-1e76abc088b6_story.html

[Jingthing]

This horrible major news event has it's own dedicated thread now.

 

Please post your comments on that event there:

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1132518-gunmen-kill-mormon-family-members-in-north-mexico/?tab=comments#comment-14737939

[snowballthecat]

On 10/27/2019 at 8:42 AM, Mike Teavee said:

Could have sworn I edited this to clarify, I would prefer to fly East from Thailand/Singapore and end up in Columbia, just not sure which route/stops to take on the way (The more places I can see the better)

You can fly easily East. In fact is better to recover from jetlag this way.

We used to do it from HK to Sidney/Auckland (sleep one night there, but not need), then Santiago de Chile. Cathay Pacific. Costly but better!

I believe from Thailand there is a good connection to Melbourne and then Chile. Then Colombia, do not remember airlines. 

Jetstar and then Chilean or Argentina airline?

You can check  in www.eDestinos.com

skyscanner ,of course, or hooper from your mobile. 

Another good idea: Thailand-Dubai with Emirates, then Dubai-Panama  direct or Dubai-Mexico direct. 

[snowballthecat]

Very good fares these days from Hong Kong, unbelievable!

Hong Kong is a big air-hub, never been that cheap to fly from HK, poor HK????

[Jingthing]

Gringo expat beaten up in Loja Ecuador in a case of racist expat backlash. I think incidents like this are very rare in Latin America. Not so much general crime or violence but racist attacks per se.

 

Quote

 

Loja, Ecuador: U.S. expat harrassed for being a gringo, attacked with blow to the head

 

HATE CRIME AGAINST GRINGO IN LOJA ECUADOR

 

U.S. Citizen told to get out of the country, Ecuador is not for them but for Ecuadorians,

 

 

http://latinamericacurrentevents.com/loja-ecuador-u-s-expat-harrassed-for-being-a-gringo-attacked-with-blow-to-the-head/38449/

 

But perhaps an attack like this reveals a deeper vein of fear and hostility. The thing is Loja despite some predictions has not yet (and maybe never) become a major gringo expat destination. Understandably a lot of locals want to keep it that. Many people of Loja being between expat draws of Cuenca and Vilcabamba may want to keep it that way.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2019 by Jingthing

[swissie]

On 11/4/2019 at 5:49 PM, Jingthing said:

I 

Some pretty ridiculous exaggerations, omissions, and generalizations there. 

 

If you're sold on Thailand forever that's your right but that doesn't mean that there aren't decent options elsewhere for many. 

 

I do agree there aren't many global expat retirement options for those with low or modest pensions. Those with more generous pensions or optionally great wealth have many more choices. But Latin America still does have options for those with low or modest pensions more than any other region. 

 

 

As I have produced nothing but "Some pretty ridiculous exaggerations, omissions, and generalizations", I must have fallen prey to "Fake-News". Like so many others, trying to keep track of developpemnts in SA. Appearantly, we have all been fooled by "Fake-News".
But never-mind.

After way over 1800 posts, let's go down to the "Nitty-Gritty". I allow myself to pose the following hypothetical question:
- Assuming you could liquitate all your assets in Thailand that don't fit into a suitcase, where  would you re-locate to in SA currently? Numero uno destination as of now?
Should you have answered this before. Sorry, haven't read all the 1823 posts.

[Jingthing]

8 hours ago, swissie said:

As I have produced nothing but "Some pretty ridiculous exaggerations, omissions, and generalizations", I must have fallen prey to "Fake-News". Like so many others, trying to keep track of developpemnts in SA. Appearantly, we have all been fooled by "Fake-News".
But never-mind.

After way over 1800 posts, let's go down to the "Nitty-Gritty". I allow myself to pose the following hypothetical question:
- Assuming you could liquitate all your assets in Thailand that don't fit into a suitcase, where  would you re-locate to in SA currently? Numero uno destination as of now?
Should you have answered this before. Sorry, haven't read all the 1823 posts.

 

 

-- This thread is about Latin American destinations as an option for ALL people that are interested. 

-- My personal list of needs and priorities for choosing potential destinations is likely very specific. For example for those with double the pension that I have, they have a much larger set of choices. For those that need to live at a beach, they will be looking only at beach destinations. For those that want to drive their own car, they will not be prioritizing places (as I do) that don't require a car. For those that need a wild party every night, they won't be considering smaller provincial towns and cities.

-- Refer to previous posts explaining this topic is about CONSIDERATION of destinations. As mentioned many times before, I like living in Thailand (and recently even more so in Pattaya as the Chinese restaurant scene is exploding) but like so many due to changes in Thailand (visa rules exchange rates, etc,), consideration of a PLAN B seems prudent. 

-- Read the thread for details on destinations of higher interest to me. Quite obviously and transparently, the coffee region of Colombia HAD been the highest on my list but potential major changes in their visa rules there has bumped that down. 

 

Cheers

Edited November 10, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Another overview about choosing destinations in Mexico. As I've said before the larger higher altitude mild weather inland (though not biggest) cities of Queretaro and Puebla/Cholula that interest me are mentioned. She mentions air pollution issues that may be concerning.

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

You want luxury malls? Queretaro has you covered. Ironically this vlogger couple that did many excellent videos about Queretaro are now in Asia. The UK man working in China and his Mexican wife vlogging last I checked in Vietnam! As I've mentioned before there DOES seem to be a good bit of jumping between Asia and Latin America, both ways.

 

 

[Jingthing]

 

I recall someone mentioned watching Simon Reeve's The Americas BBC series as reason NOT to move to Latin America.

 

After watching the first part of (the second part is coming next year I assume) I didn't get that from the program.

 

 

It's quite good and worth watching. His focus seems to mainly about big topics like:

 

Man's overexploitation of the earth, harming the earth and ultimately ourselves

 

Migration, south to north. Of course the topic here is more like north to south

 

Global climate change and it's direct relationship to migration.

 

The first 5 part series travels from the far Artic north down through Canada, the western USA, three parts of Mexico, and then Belize, Guatamala, El Salvador and Costa Rica.

 

He won't be getting into South America until the next part.

 

So here is my reaction to the program from the angle of people considering expatriation to Latin America. So starting in Mexico.

 

He first shows Reynosa a northern border region probably more dangerous than active war zones.

Don't move there!

 

Then coincidentally he goes to Puebla (a city high on my interest list) but instead of showing the touristic colonial old city, he shows the industrial might of the VW factory supporting a vast middle class for Mexican people there.

 

Then he goes to Southern Mexico, exploring indigenous political and economic grievances.

 

Then off to Belize which he describes as a poor but stable English speaking country. No surprise there are many expats there.

 

Then off to Guatamala a country with big problems and even famine related to global climate change fueling desperate migration north. (That said, there are pockets of expats in Guatamala.)

Then off to El Salvador showing the horrible gang violence in San Salvador ironically sparked by gang members that were deported from the USA!

 

Then Costa Rica, a major expat destination for many decades portraying it as a stable no military ecological paradise. where the local people live quite well. Costa Rica relies heavily on TOURISM. 

 

He didn't go to Panama.

 

I do wonder why Costa Rica (and presumably Panama) is doing so relatively well while Honduras, Guatamala, and El Salvador are doing so poorly as they are in the same Central American region presumably impacted by the same climate changes.

 

Anyway, from an expat POV, nothing at all surprising. 

 

Everyone should already know that Northern Mexico is for the most part off limits as an expat destination (cartel violence) and also Honduras and El Salvador.

 

On the other hand PARTS of Mexico, Belize, and Costa Rica remain on many people's lists.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Jingthing

[Cryingdick]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I recall someone mentioned watching Simon Reeve's The Americas BBC series as reason NOT to move to Latin America.

 

 

You aren't moving there anyway. This thread is 122 pages of nothing. We had one guy that went to Mexico City and got stressed out by Chardonnay and Greek Salads. The level of alert has gone way up as well, lately.

[seasia]

4 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

You aren't moving there anyway. This thread is 122 pages of nothing. We had one guy that went to Mexico City and got stressed out by Chardonnay and Greek Salads. The level of alert has gone way up as well, lately.

Easy to attack.

 

The OP has never stated that he is definitely moving to a LATAM country.

 

Note the " considering " word used in the title.

 

The poster who went to Mexico at least provided some useful insight.

 

If you consider the thread to be 122 pages of nothing why are you even reading ?

 

I have found it interesting from the start.

 

Have several friends with experience of the region.

 

None of them would even think of posting  here in such a toxic environment.

 

Another for the growing ignore list.

[Bournville]

35 minutes ago, seasia said:

None of them would even think of posting  here in such a toxic environment.

Actually I have wanted to say this for a while now. I belong to several facebook groups and other forums like this in Vietnam, Indonesia and Thailand. yes, generally the people that visit all these chat groups are very negative people and real smart as**. I also belong to similar groups in Mexico and Ecuador and the level of politeness is head and shoulders above the SE Asia forums. Why? I have no idea. But it is a fun fact. 

 

One group I belong to.. a facebook group in San Miguel de Allende, MX regularly wish each other good night and sweet dreams, in both Spanish and English! Seriously! In the 4 years I have lived in Thailand that sort of cordiality seems to be lost in a slur of toxic banter 24/7 on TV.  

Edited November 13, 2019 by Bournville

[Jingthing]

A bit of a followup on the horrible massacre of the Mormon dual nationality families in Northern Mexico by cartels particularly how such things relate to expats.

 

The surviving families are reportedly repatriating back to the USA. But they've been in Mexico for decades so that won't be so easy. I saw an interview with one of them saying he and his family have no place to go now in the USA but they're still going. 

 

I reckon a lot of repatriating expats from Thailand especially if they've been here for decades are in similar situations (with the difficult repatriations, not the massacre).

 

Jerry Brown Travels has an interesting story about what happened to them some years back in the expat haven area of Ajijic (Lake Chapala). So yes even safer areas can potentially be it by the cartel violence. But as Jerry says the Mexican government ultimately protects certain areas that are heavy with tourists and/or expats.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Jingthing

[snowballthecat]

On 11/5/2019 at 1:23 PM, Bournville said:

I fly BKK to Mexico city on China Southern. Check my 2x 23kg suitcases on one end and see them again at my final destination. About 700 usd each way.. Time of year and direction are factors. 

 

Then from MEX to CO. That's the only way I know of. 

Checking the East route to Argentina....

 

Skyscanner allows such a search in Multi-destination setting....

So, I have to split the journey....

Lets'say HKT (Phuket)-SYD (Sydney)

SYD-BUE (Buenos Aires) 

Results in a 30 hour trip for 80,000 Baht, return fare, leaving in Dec coming back in Feb. 

So-so airlines: Air Asia, Air Asia X and LATAM (??) 

Same from BKK, but with Qantas:

 

BKK-SYD (13 hs)

SYD-BUE(22 hs)

77,000Baht.

 

Perhaps there are better options to fly East, but no aware of. Usually I input SCL, as Chile offers more options than Argentina, and it is a quick jump, anyway....

 

Hopper is full of searches, from KL, from HK, from HKT, from BKK. Christmas is in the air, and fares are High, whatever direction one may decide to take. 

Charges for changes are also very high, and with the uncertainty I am facing, I will get a one-way-ticket this time. 

No cheap.