Trump’s top general calls ex-president ‘fascist to the core’

[dexterm]

8 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Just because reality is not to your liking, is not a reason to ignore it or distort facts. There wasn't anything said about not criticizing China's ways, never mind the made up "apology". Obviously, some posters feel that a vehement rant on an expat forum in Thailand implies doing something, making a difference or earning them some sort of moral high-ground. Unsurprisingly, the expectation is that politicians will adopt a similar style. Each to their own, I guess.

 

There's no shortage of articles and resources detailing China's human rights record. It is curious that in the link provided, China is only mentioned in reference to its part in the Tokyo Trial. Go figure.

 

China's transgressions on this front are nothing new (as mentioned earlier, Tibet, for example). Could be wrong, but was there a similar drive, in the recent past, to push such an agenda? I'm not saying it is wrong, just that ignoring the context of USA domestic politics is a choice.

 

Same goes for some posters' reactions - apparently more to do with context rather than representing a principled approach. Not too long ago it was the USA warmongering (South China Sea), foolishness (trade war), and China being a possible replacement for the USA on the international stage.

 

"China's transgressions on this front are nothing new."
and from your earlier posts in the thread...
"The USA is not in a position to force China to change its domestic policies."
"Their way of maintaining control and stability. Comes with a price."

 

You seem almost indifferent and assume Trump is powerless to act over the fate of over a million human beings taken from their loved ones and disappeared into concentration camps. That's all Congress wants him to do: speak up, represent American values, make the world and the Chinese know that they cannot commit these crimes with impunity.
 
Bottom line: would you be expressing the same thoughts if it were one million Christians, Buddhists or Jews herded into vocational prison camps (as the Chinese call them..where have I heard that one before?) 

[Morch]

2 hours ago, dexterm said:

"China's transgressions on this front are nothing new."
and from your earlier posts in the thread...
"The USA is not in a position to force China to change its domestic policies."
"Their way of maintaining control and stability. Comes with a price."

 

You seem almost indifferent and assume Trump is powerless to act over the fate of over a million human beings taken from their loved ones and disappeared into concentration camps. That's all Congress wants him to do: speak up, represent American values, make the world and the Chinese know that they cannot commit these crimes with impunity.
 
Bottom line: would you be expressing the same thoughts if it were one million Christians, Buddhists or Jews herded into vocational prison camps (as the Chinese call them..where have I heard that one before?) 

 

This may come as a surprise, but the value of posted opinions is not actually dependent on the level of vehemence, faux indignation or drama exhibited. As said earlier, for some posters this seems to define what "doing something" is all about. Each to his own. I am not indifferent, so much as not interested in the rhetorical style you favor. I'm also not into ignoring reality in favor of political views and personal wishes.

 

Whether you like to acknowledge it or not, the USA (Trump or no Trump) is not in a position to force China's hand on the matter. Another administration may have been more outspoken about it, and there could even have been some legislation involved - neither going all in, or achieving much as far as the people involved are concerned.

 

Because, even if "all Congress wants" (disregarding the obvious political angle is, again, a choice) was what you claim, words by themselves would have little effect as far as changing Chinese policies. Unless, of course, one had a particularity low (or contrived) threshold regarding what "impunity" stands for.

 

As for the last bogus "comment", you may look up my posting history, or stop pretending we haven't had this exchange before. I just don't do your brand of vehement drama. Spin away.

 

 

[Mavideol]

14 hours ago, Morch said:

Obviously, some posters feel that a vehement rant on an expat forum in Thailand implies doing something, making a difference or earning them some sort of moral high-ground.

people are just giving their opinion, good or bad it's their opinion and I don't think anybody is looking at earning some sort of moral ground, maybe just trying to pass their point and have some extra clicks, don't take it too serious this is TV and I do think the majority of people following the news (fake or real) know what China and Russia are all about

[Morch]

20 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

people are just giving their opinion, good or bad it's their opinion and I don't think anybody is looking at earning some sort of moral ground, maybe just trying to pass their point and have some extra clicks, don't take it too serious this is TV and I do think the majority of people following the news (fake or real) know what China and Russia are all about

 

 

[Prissana Pescud]

On 3/6/2019 at 12:57 PM, Morch said:

 

Because slogans are the answer to everything.

 

You have dodged the point raised by the post replied to, regarding the Arab world's stance on the matter. That is, unless the opening slogan's implication was that the Arab world is either excluded or exempt.

 

As for your assertions regarding the USA's supposed leverage - the negotiations and situation between the sides isn't nearly as imbalanced as implied. Claiming that "a word in the ear" may alter China's relevant domestic policy would require a bit more than a poster saying so. China is not particularity known as receptive to even commentary by foreign powers on such matters.

 

And as opined above, kinda amusing seeing them double standards with regards to the USA excreting influence.

Turkey and Saudi are not on friendly terms due to political and religious differences. Lets be honest, they are enemies. 

Chinese muslims, (Uiger) have ancestry from Turkmenistan (and Tajikistan and others) and affiliations with the homeland - Turkey.

Therefore, it comes as no surprise that Saudi Kingdom says it has no problems with the oppression of Chinese muslims.

Nearly all issues in muslim countries goes back centuries at least. Sometimes millennium.

 

I agree that USA and any other country will never be able to influence the domestic policy of China.

But that should not stop countries such as USA, EU and others of like ilk from raising it as an issue.

It won't do much good other than let the world know that inhuman practices against minorities is still found abhorrent by these countries. 

[Mavideol]

5 hours ago, Morch said:

 

 

new here, where is here? 555

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Prissana Pescud said:

Turkey and Saudi are not on friendly terms due to political and religious differences. Lets be honest, they are enemies. 

Chinese muslims, (Uiger) have ancestry from Turkmenistan (and Tajikistan and others) and affiliations with the homeland - Turkey.

Therefore, it comes as no surprise that Saudi Kingdom says it has no problems with the oppression of Chinese muslims.

Nearly all issues in muslim countries goes back centuries at least. Sometimes millennium.

 

I agree that USA and any other country will never be able to influence the domestic policy of China.

But that should not stop countries such as USA, EU and others of like ilk from raising it as an issue.

It won't do much good other than let the world know that inhuman practices against minorities is still found abhorrent by these countries. 

 

Turkey and Saudi Arabia aren't so much enemies as competitors. Your point of view might have been relevant (if still factually deficient) were my comments limited solely to SA's reaction to China's transgressions or if you could relate any meaningful steps taken by Turkey to address and counter the situation. I think you'll find that other than some fiery words (and even that, not up to the usual standard) Erdogan did little. The same (or even less) applies for the Arab/Muslim world in general.

 

The issue was, in fact, raised by Western leaders and politicians, on more than one occasion. It was covered on Western media as well. The current USA administration being what it is, the expectation that it would do something about it is about as futile as expecting the Chinese to change their  ways. If one recalls that posters going on about it bash Trump (and rightly so) on many other occasions, the position expressed is "somewhat" disingenuous. Painting the complaints in the OP as being disconnected from the current political landscape and going-ons in the USA is another example of this.

 

[Prissana Pescud]

17 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Turkey and Saudi Arabia aren't so much enemies as competitors. Your point of view might have been relevant (if still factually deficient) were my comments limited solely to SA's reaction to China's transgressions or if you could relate any meaningful steps taken by Turkey to address and counter the situation. I think you'll find that other than some fiery words (and even that, not up to the usual standard) Erdogan did little. The same (or even less) applies for the Arab/Muslim world in general.

 

The issue was, in fact, raised by Western leaders and politicians, on more than one occasion. It was covered on Western media as well. The current USA administration being what it is, the expectation that it would do something about it is about as futile as expecting the Chinese to change their  ways. If one recalls that posters going on about it bash Trump (and rightly so) on many other occasions, the position expressed is "somewhat" disingenuous. Painting the complaints in the OP as being disconnected from the current political landscape and going-ons in the USA is another example of this.

 

It was you that quoted Arab countries as having no empathy for the Uiger. And of course they don't because they all hate each other.

The muslims kill more of their own muslims based on these religious differences. Saudi supports muslims in the south of Thailand.

Iran supports Houtis in Yemen. Please try to get a grasp of your posts.

And Saudi and Turkey are nothing as simple as "competitors". Competing for what? Hearts and minds maybe.

Your simple posts carry no truck with me. Your posts are aimed at making division to those who try to mend fences with fact, not your mythology.

Cheers  

[Morch]

24 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

It was you that quoted Arab countries as having no empathy for the Uiger. And of course they don't because they all hate each other.

The muslims kill more of their own muslims based on these religious differences. Saudi supports muslims in the south of Thailand.

Iran supports Houtis in Yemen. Please try to get a grasp of your posts.

And Saudi and Turkey are nothing as simple as "competitors". Competing for what? Hearts and minds maybe.

Your simple posts carry no truck with me. Your posts are aimed at making division to those who try to mend fences with fact, not your mythology.

Cheers  

 

I don't think I've said anything about "empathy". And yes, Muslims do have their (sometimes bloody) differences. But even following this trivial "observation", wouldn't explain away Muslim countries closer (whether ethnically, religiously, or historically) to the Uighur exhibiting a relatively mild reaction to China's transgressions.

 

My comments on this point addressed complaints directed at "the West"'s inaction (and implied  responsibility), which failed to explain why the Arab/Muslim world gets a free pass on this score. 

 

I wouldn't know what "mythology" you're on about. You haven't substantiated any of your claims, but do go on about "fact". As for "simple posts" - that may apply to point of view who wish to deflect, ignore and minimize the issue above, or ones painting the OP's "complaints" as derived solely from a desire to represent ideals.

 

  

[simple1]

Haven't reviewed the entire topic. Has anyone asked why the trump administration would give a damn at this point in trade negotiations with China? As to KSR being sympathetic with China on the issue doesn't it really boil down to a dictatorship sympathising with the other's challenges of controlling the population/minorities? Plus there would be secret matters of State e.g. financial / speciality expertise.

Edited March 7, 2019 by simple1

[Morch]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

Haven't reviewed the entire topic. Has anyone asked why the trump administration would give a damn at this point in trade negotiations with China? As to KSR being sympathetic with China on the issue doesn't it really boil down to a dictatorship sympathising with the other's challenges of controlling the population/minorities? Plus there would be secret matters of State e.g. financial / speciality expertise.

 

Given its positions so far, why would the Trump administration give a damn  - regardless of anything? It's not exactly as if  tackling such issues is what it's about, is it? The ongoing negotiations might serve as an additional factor with regard to not going there, but such issues were never really anywhere near the forefront of the current USA administration's agenda. Unless it becomes politically expedient, no reason to expect major changes in this stance.

 

Similarly, KSR might have this or that motivation to dodge the issue. One can cite political, economic or religious/ethnic factors. The point made, however, was more to do with the merit of criticizing "the West"'s response (or lack of), while ignoring the Arab/Muslim world's rather tame reaction.