Denied non-O retirement extension in 2 provinces

[roberta]

During my first two months in Thailand I stayed with a Thai friend who owns a house in Nonthaburi.  I applied for, and eventually received a non-O visa for retirement  Because the address where I stayed was in Nonthaburi I had to apply there.  But later I found it necessary to move to a place of my own, so at the beginning of this year I rented a condo, which happens to be in Bangkok, not in Nonthaburi.  I had no idea that this would present any kind of a problem.  I filed a TM.30 at Bangkok Immigration, and assumed that it would allow me to apply for extension, in due course, in the province where I now lived.

 

Yesterday I went to Bangkok Immigration and applied for a one-year retirement extension of my 90-day non-O.  This was refused because the visa had been issued in Nonthaburi.  The officer told me that the visa can only be extended at Immigration in the province at which had been issued.  I must go to Nonthaburi Immigration to get it extended.  I protested that this would surely be denied, as I no longer live there, but was assured by the officer that it would be allowed.

Today I did as I had been told and applied again at Nonthaburi.  As I had been anticipating, I was denied there also, as I no longer live at an address in that province.  I asked for advice, but was only told that there is no solution and I must leave the country.  I tried to ask about alternatives but was waved away with an impatient gesture by the officer at the "Information" desk. 

 

I would be extremely grateful for any information, advice or suggestions.  I have thought about leaving the country for a few days, and then returning to enter on a 30 day waiver, and apply in Bangkok for a new non-O.  The one I now have will become void if I fail to extend it - but I worry that they might refuse to issue a second non-O in the same year, or would even deny me entry to the country as I already entered on a 30 day waiver last November. It is really difficult to know what the rules are.  My visa expires in three weeks, and I need to make some sort of a plan before I give way to panic!

 

 

 

       

[baansgr]

Stay with your friend for a few days in Nonthaburi, register there, get your extension, then move back to your condo in BKK

[roberta]

Oh, I wish I could, but my friend is out of the country for the next 3 weeks, and by the time she is back my visa will have expired.  Bad timing, I know

[madmen]

How about getting an agent to handle it? No idea if its possible but worth a try

[mngmn]

Take the Thai immigration department's advice, leave the country and treat yourself to a nice peaceful life in another country ????

 

Seriously though it's probably your only option.

[Briggsy]

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

Stay with your friend for a few days in Nonthaburi, register there, get your extension, then move back to your condo in BKK

Try a hotel in Nonthaburi province (but they might refuse that) as an address for extending.

Do you still have copies of your friend's documents? Try registering yourself at that address.

 

There are 2 tracks you could try.

[JackThompson]

41 minutes ago, madmen said:

How about getting an agent to handle it? No idea if its possible but worth a try

Surely, this is what the IO at CW was fishing-for, as they must have known it would be impossible to get an extension at an office that doesn't support the OP's current residence.

 

The OP may be able to get the agent-fee down to 8K Baht or so, given they don't need faked money, etc.

 

2 hours ago, roberta said:

I filed a TM.30 at Bangkok Immigration, and assumed that it would allow me to apply for extension, in due course, in the province where I now lived. 

The TM-30 is needed in many cases, but a TM-28 is what gets you "officially moved" to an office's jurisdiction for purposes of extensions and 90-day reporting.   That may not work now, since you have apparently been targeted for agent-extortion already, but might be something others could try as a first-step.

[roberta]

I filled out a TM.28 as well as TM.30, but the office said they don't use the 28 any more, just submit the 30, with all documents to prove who owns the condo.  I did all that. 

I have heard about these agents, and would be willing to use one if necessary, but I have no idea how to find one.

[Briggsy]

I think you need to go back to Nonthaburi with a Nonthaburi address. I think you will succeed with perseverance.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, roberta said:

Oh, I wish I could, but my friend is out of the country for the next 3 weeks, and by the time she is back my visa will have expired.  Bad timing, I know

Stay at a hotel for a couple of nights.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, roberta said:

I filled out a TM.28 as well as TM.30, but the office said they don't use the 28 any more, just submit the 30, with all documents to prove who owns the condo.  I did all that. 

I have heard about these agents, and would be willing to use one if necessary, but I have no idea how to find one.

Ask the immigration officer if he can suggest someone.

[dcnx]

5 hours ago, mngmn said:

Take the Thai immigration department's advice, leave the country and treat yourself to a nice peaceful life in another country ????

 

Seriously though it's probably your only option.

This is the best advice here. Take this opportunity to relocate to somewhere sane where you can live the rest of your days enjoying life and not worrying about your next check-in or extension.

 

Or be prepared to live this nonsense like it’s groundhog day until you take your last breath or leap off a condo.

[HampiK]

If you go out of country for a new visa, why not go directly for an NON-O visa in a nearby country?

 

I think this at least would be much easier as to a 30 day waiver and then try to convert. With a NON-O outside Thailand.. you could register your bkk address and then go direct to the 1 year extension ????

[Sheryl]

If I were you I would first try going back to CW, might get a different IO this time and a different outcome. Don't mention the prior trip, just go in, hand them all documentation including your TM30 receipt and tabian ban or condo papers and see what happens.

 

Worst they can do is refuse but AFAIK there is no valid reason for them to do so. Unless there is some rule that first extension has to be at same office as the visa -- @UbonJoe?

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

If I were you I would first try going back to CW, might get a different IO this time and a different outcome. Don't mention the prior trip, just go in, hand them all documentation including your TM30 receipt and tabian ban or condo papers and see what happens.

If going that route, I would definitely file a TM-28 first - or attempt to - and doing that step w/o even mentioning he will be doing the next step.  Try to get a copy of the "stamped-as-submitted" form.

 

Once complete, new queue #, and try again with the extension.

[fforest1]

Its to risky to leave the country and come back with a 30 day....That could turn out ok or really bad......What I would do is go back to Nonthaburi and just consider using the same address or maybe renting a Air BnB and using that address or maybe using a agent in Nonthaburi .....

[roberta]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

If I were you I would first try going back to CW, might get a different IO this time and a different outcome. Don't mention the prior trip, just go in, hand them all documentation including your TM30 receipt and tabian ban or condo papers and see what happens.

 

Worst they can do is refuse but AFAIK there is no valid reason for them to do so. Unless there is some rule that first extension has to be at same office as the visa -- @UbonJoe?

Several officers at both Immigration offices told me that there is such a rule, and it was confirmed during a telephone conversation I had with a visa specialist.  All applications at the Bangkok office seem to go through at least 3 levels of approval; the first officer checks the paperwork,  and then if complete passes it on to a supervisor.  If it gets past that stage, it goes "upstairs" for review by the division chief.  My application was rejected at level 2.     

[dotpoom]

16 hours ago, mngmn said:

Take the Thai immigration department's advice, leave the country and treat yourself to a nice peaceful life in another country ????

 

Seriously though it's probably your only option.

What advice was that...go to Nonthaburi and apply there?

[Chassa]

Thai Immigration had no trouble transferring my extension from Udon Thani to their new office in Nong Bua Lamphu, so it must be possible to do this or maybe its only a convenience for immigration.

[Briggsy]

5 minutes ago, Chassa said:

Thai Immigration had no trouble transferring my extension from Udon Thani to their new office in Nong Bua Lamphu, so it must be possible to do this or maybe its only a convenience for immigration.

You have misread. This is his first extension. His previous interaction was a visa conversion. That is the issue. It is not a transfer of an extension.

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, Chassa said:

Thai Immigration had no trouble transferring my extension from Udon Thani to their new office in Nong Bua Lamphu, so it must be possible to do this or maybe its only a convenience for immigration.

Was your Original Non Imm O issued outside Thailand, or was it an entry conversion of a Visa Waiver or Tourist Visa Entry in Udon IO? 

Nevertheless this is a rule that I have not heard of before, or is a fabrication, anybody know which it is? 

OP, it seems like obtaining another Non-Imm O and getting a new Extension is the best idea. May I suggest obtaining it in an adjacent country, not converting a VW Entry, just in case you decide to move from Bangkok! 

[Burma Bill]

18 hours ago, Briggsy said:

I think you need to go back to Nonthaburi with a Nonthaburi address. I think you will succeed with perseverance.

Yes, I agree. In recent visa discussions I became aware of this rule. I live in Issan and my visa was issued by Khon Kaen Immigration - no problems for 90 day reports. Some of our local ex-pats have visas issued by Chonburi Immigration and have to refer back to them. Khon Kaen will only deal with Khon Kaen visas. Similarly, Chonburi will not deal with Khon Kaen visas.

[nickmondo]

do not worry

I know exactly how to solve this

exactly the same happened to me

I have had to do this twice

1.  You leave the country, out and straight back on a land border, come back in, get a tourist Visa

2.  Go directly to IO (or with at least 15 days left of your Tourist Visa) and apply for O A Visa, this lasts for 3 months

3.  2 months into that Visa, you go back to Immigration to apply for your Retirement Visa.

I put a post such as yours on both here, and FB, and all the 'experts' on here told me what a load of rubbish i was talking about the other province issue.

Anyway, the above is what you have to do mate

 

[SheungWan]

7 minutes ago, nickmondo said:

do not worry

I know exactly how to solve this

exactly the same happened to me

I have had to do this twice

1.  You leave the country, out and straight back on a land border, come back in, get a tourist Visa

2.  Go directly to IO (or with at least 15 days left of your Tourist Visa) and apply for O A Visa, this lasts for 3 months

3.  2 months into that Visa, you go back to Immigration to apply for your Retirement Visa.

I put a post such as yours on both here, and FB, and all the 'experts' on here told me what a load of rubbish i was talking about the other province issue.

Anyway, the above is what you have to do mate

O-A visa not available in Thailand. You are thinking maybe a(n) O visa?

Edited March 9, 2019 by SheungWan

[nickmondo]

6 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

O-A visa not available in Thailand. You are thinking maybe a(n) O visa?

yes, sorry, you are correct.

but i just read his post again.

He was not applying for an extension of an existing retirement visa.

As I read it, he was applying for an extension of a 90 day visa, so my words dont matter anyway.

Actually, I wish i had not posted it.  ha ha

Edited March 9, 2019 by nickmondo

[Deerculler]

Have you thought about the Philippines?

[roberta]

I applied for extension of a non-Immigrant "O" visa, which is  valid for 90 days.   

I believe my only hope might be to leave the country briefly (a cheap flight to a neighbouring country) and try to re-enter Thailand on a 30 day visa waiver.  If that succeeds, I would apply immediately for a new non-O visa.  The act of leaving the country without re-entry permit would render the old visa null and void, so I hope that would allow me to obtain a new one.

 

It is only the first extension which has to be done in the province where issued.  This problem would not arise for subsequent extensions.  I only wish I had known about this before I moved.   

[roberta]

I have indeed thought about the Philippines, and tried living there for nearly one year, in 2013.  I am afraid did not like it at all.

[Sheryl]

Since it seems now to be confirmed that for a first extension it has to be done at the same Imm Office that you got the visa conversion at, you have 2 choices:

 

1. Apply in Nonthaburi. Either stay in a hotel (they will file the TM30 for you), or rent a place short term (make sure a TM30 gets filed), or (best option) stay with the same friend you initially stayed with when you did the visa, so that your address is unchanged. What sort of proof of address did you show at the time you got the visa? Use same. Bring along copy of your friend's tabian ban (signed) and copy of his Thai ID (signed). There may also be a form he needs to fill out stating you stay with him, maybe ask about that first so you can.  I don't know what that form is called but I had to complete one when I had a Thai-foreign couple temporarily staying with me and doing an O extension based on marriage, to certify that they lived with me.

 

2. Leave the country and come back in on a new  non-immigrant "O"  visa . You can get in Vientiane, Laos but note that appointments are required in Vientiane. See this thread for description if requirements

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1084795-non-o-visa-retirement-vientiane/

 

I think this would be  better than coming back in on a tourist visa and trying to change it. Saves a step and avoids possible questions/pitfalls when they see you are coming in on a tourist visa after having just left the country and also previously having had on an O visa.

 

As soon as you arrive, file another TM30 with the IO where you are staying. You should then be easily able to do the extension there.

 

 

[Jonnapat]

This peculiar experience defines the absolute stupidity of most Thai rules and regulations.  I have every sympathy for his situation.