How do I know if I'm supposed to pay tax or not?

[giddyup]

Been living in Thailand nearly 9 years and never been home in that time. I get a part aged pension plus a super pension, a small allocated pension plus interest from term deposits. Nothing is withheld either by the bank or Centrelink as far as tax goes, so I'm not sure if I owe the taxman money or not. How do I find out?

[robblok]

By finding an accountant that can help you fill in a tax form and see how much you have to pay. 

 

That is how it goes in my country, I just fill in data from my clients and see if they have to pay or not. It will probably be available in some kind program so they can see if you have to pay or not.

 

Just be sure to find an tax adviser that understands the laws in your country concerning living outside of OZ. 

 

This should not be too hard and you can probably send all data to adviser by email. So you can choose anyone to do it for you.

[Kwasaki]

I'm from UK told HMRC I was retired and they waited till I got UK state pension before taxing me on my private pensions.

[giddyup]

6 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I'm from UK told HMRC I was retired and they waited till I got UK state pension before taxing me on my private pensions.

I thought I posted in the Australian related forum?

Edited March 11, 2019 by giddyup

[giddyup]

Sorry, perhaps I should have added that I'm from Australia and used to pay Australian tax, so the question is for Australian tax payers.

Edited March 11, 2019 by giddyup

[Kwasaki]

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I thought I posted in the Australian related forum?

It's in Home Country Forum unless I got it wrong apologies.

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

It's in Home Country Forum unless I got it wrong apologies.

I've just clarified my post.

[LosLobo]

I would phone an Australian registered tax agent, eg HRBlock, Etax etc.

 

I would say your residency status for tax purposes would be pivotal in your tax assessment.

 

[robblok]

11 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

It's in Home Country Forum unless I got it wrong apologies.

He should just find a tax adviser in OZ and send his data. They will solve his problem for him. He just have to make sure they know he is living in Thailand and know how the international rules work. 

[Kwasaki]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

He should just find a tax adviser in OZ and send his data. They will solve his problem for him. He just have to make sure they know he is living in Thailand and know how the international rules work. 

Yeah didn't he was OZ thought Home Forum only UK. ????

 

You must tell HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) if you’re

leaving the UK to live abroad permanently.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah didn't he was OZ thought Home Forum only UK. ????

 

You must tell HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) if you’re

leaving the UK to live abroad permanently.

In my country you you either file it yourself or find a tax adviser that helps you. The biggest problem is of course finding one that knows about people living abroad. 

 

But its not that hard find a guy, send the data, he will calculate what there is to pay and send it.

 

Sometimes its just better to hire an expert.

[Lacessit]

The allocated pension is tax-free. While the Centrelink pension is counted as part of one's taxable income, the Senior Australian's Tax Offset ( SATO ) tends to cancel it out. Any income from investments is taxable; however, if that income includes franked dividends AND you are still classed as resident in Australia then that may cancel out as well.

As another poster has said, your residency status for tax purposes is fairly critical.

I retain Australian residency status. I've found when my taxable income is over AUD 40,000 per year, I need a tax accountant to prepare a return to the ATO. As I keep my finances well documented and fairly simple, my bill from the tax agent is $165 including GST.

Be aware if you do your tax return yourself, it has to be submitted no more than 3 months after the end of the financial year. Tax agents have until March 31 the following year.

 

[giddyup]

42 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The allocated pension is tax-free. While the Centrelink pension is counted as part of one's taxable income, the Senior Australian's Tax Offset ( SATO ) tends to cancel it out. Any income from investments is taxable; however, if that income includes franked dividends AND you are still classed as resident in Australia then that may cancel out as well.

As another poster has said, your residency status for tax purposes is fairly critical.

I retain Australian residency status. I've found when my taxable income is over AUD 40,000 per year, I need a tax accountant to prepare a return to the ATO. As I keep my finances well documented and fairly simple, my bill from the tax agent is $165 including GST.

Be aware if you do your tax return yourself, it has to be submitted no more than 3 months after the end of the financial year. Tax agents have until March 31 the following year.

 

I doubt I'm assessed as having residential status as I have no address in Australia, no longer on any electoral roll, and never filled out a tax return in 9 years.

[Will27]

8 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I doubt I'm assessed as having residential status as I have no address in Australia, no longer on any electoral roll, and never filled out a tax return in 9 years.

A lot will depend also on how much your taxable income is.

 

Either way, the ATO probably sent you letters asking you to either lodge tax returns or fill out a form 

saying you're not required to. As you have no address in Oz, the letters probably were returned to the ATO.

 

Like you said, you will technically be a non-resident for tax purposes (like most Aussies living here) but again, a lot will

depend on your income level.

 

In all likelihood, if you have a debt, either for tax payable or not submitting tax returns, it's probably been written off.

 

If you don't intend going back to Oz, you will probably be ok.

The only concern would be if they decided to garnish your bank account for any outstanding money which

would be slim I'd suggest.

 

The only way to be certain would be to phone the ATO and ask them.

I'm not to sure you'd want to poke the bear though.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, Will27 said:

A lot will depend also on how much your taxable income is.

 

Either way, the ATO probably sent you letters asking you to either lodge tax returns or fill out a form 

saying you're not required to. As you have no address in Oz, the letters probably were returned to the ATO.

 

Like you said, you will technically be a non-resident for tax purposes (like most Aussies living here) but again, a lot will

depend on your income level.

 

In all likelihood, if you have a debt, either for tax payable or not submitting tax returns, it's probably been written off.

 

If you don't intend going back to Oz, you will probably be ok.

The only concern would be if they decided to garnish your bank account for any outstanding money which

would be slim I'd suggest.

 

The only way to be certain would be to phone the ATO and ask them.

I'm not to sure you'd want to poke the bear though.

I did get a letter from the ATO a couple of years back, they said that I owed round $600 from the sale of my house before I left, which was 6 years previously, but that "they wouldn't pursue the matter" In fact the first letter I received just said I owed $600, no explanation as for what. For peace of mind I paid the $600 and asked if that was all the monies outstanding. As I never received a reply I assume that it was.

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I retain Australian residency status.

You dont get to just choose that by ticking a checkbox.. 

 

If you are resident in Thailand over 180 day per annum, you are legally resident for taxation. 

If that taxation results in an amount to pay here is a very different scenario of course. Way to many variables to count. Only pointing out that many seem to hold the belief that just because they continue to do a tax return in a home country, and even pay some tax there, that removes all other obligations. 

Because of the sources of my funds I am currently doing tax returns in 3 countries each year, not including Thailand. 

[phantomfiddler]

I would advise not going looking for taxes to pay. If they want some they will doubtless come looking ????

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

You dont get to just choose that by ticking a checkbox.. 

 

If you are resident in Thailand over 180 day per annum, you are legally resident for taxation. 

If that taxation results in an amount to pay here is a very different scenario of course. Way to many variables to count. Only pointing out that many seem to hold the belief that just because they continue to do a tax return in a home country, and even pay some tax there, that removes all other obligations. 

Because of the sources of my funds I am currently doing tax returns in 3 countries each year, not including Thailand. 

I go back to Australia every six months inside the 180 day maximum for medical checks.

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, giddyup said:

I doubt I'm assessed as having residential status as I have no address in Australia, no longer on any electoral roll, and never filled out a tax return in 9 years.

Unless you are earning squillions ( on a part Centrelink pension I doubt that ) IMHO I don't think you have anything to worry about. The ATO has much bigger fish to fry.

Centrelink, Medicare and the ATO are now linked. If you are not hearing anything from Centrelink, the odds are you are beneath the ATO's notice. Your Medicare expires after 5 years away.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Unless you are earning squillions ( on a part Centrelink pension I doubt that ) IMHO I don't think you have anything to worry about. The ATO has much bigger fish to fry.

Centrelink, Medicare and the ATO are now linked. If you are not hearing anything from Centrelink, the odds are you are beneath the ATO's notice. Your Medicare expires after 5 years away.

The ATO did track me down to Thailand and advised me that $600 was outstanding, and even though they said they wouldn't pursue me for payment I felt obliged to pay otherwise that amount would have just kept increasing with added interest.

I have managed to renew my Medicare card from Thailand and had it sent to a friends address in Australia. Whether I would be able to actually use it after 8 years I don't know, but if I fronted up to a hospital with a current Medicare card what are they going to do?

[Lacessit]

18 minutes ago, giddyup said:

The ATO did track me down to Thailand and advised me that $600 was outstanding, and even though they said they wouldn't pursue me for payment I felt obliged to pay otherwise that amount would have just kept increasing with added interest.

I have managed to renew my Medicare card from Thailand and had it sent to a friends address in Australia. Whether I would be able to actually use it after 8 years I don't know, but if I fronted up to a hospital with a current Medicare card what are they going to do?

It would depend on whether the card was honoured after 8 years, and the nature of your medical condition. Something like a hip replacement in the public system could put you on a waiting list for anything up to 18 months. A cardiac arrest would get you admitted immediately. I maintain top level private health cover in Australia because I don't want to rely on Medicare alone.

 

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, phantomfiddler said:

I would advise not going looking for taxes to pay. If they want some they will doubtless come looking ????

It depends on your financial situation.  RodtheSod posted an interesting piece on that a couple of days ago.  Might not be applicable for your situation, but worth looking into >

I have no earned income coming into Thailand so I am not liable to complete a tax return nor register for tax. But I do....

Why? Firstly, I can reclaim the withholding tax on my 800k Time Deposit (currently worth TB1,800p.a.). Secondly I feel that I have done everything I can to make my presence known to the authorities with nothing to hide, but thirdly, and most importantly, I can get Tax Residence letters from Thailand which I use to reclaim withholding tax on dividend income from Switzerland (currently worth circa TB100k p.a.).

The Tax man did look at me rather strange when I volunteered to complete previous years tax returns and pay the late lodgement penalty even though I had no tax to pay, but he did see my logic in doing it to get the Residency Letters.

Hope it helps someone out there....RtS

 

[giddyup]

5 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

It depends on your financial situation.  RodtheSod posted an interesting piece on that a couple of days ago.  Might not be applicable for your situation, but worth looking into >

I have no earned income coming into Thailand so I am not liable to complete a tax return nor register for tax. But I do....

 

Why? Firstly, I can reclaim the withholding tax on my 800k Time Deposit (currently worth TB1,800p.a.). Secondly I feel that I have done everything I can to make my presence known to the authorities with nothing to hide, but thirdly, and most importantly, I can get Tax Residence letters from Thailand which I use to reclaim withholding tax on dividend income from Switzerland (currently worth circa TB100k p.a.).

 

The Tax man did look at me rather strange when I volunteered to complete previous years tax returns and pay the late lodgement penalty even though I had no tax to pay, but he did see my logic in doing it to get the Residency Letters.

 

Hope it helps someone out there....RtS

 

We are talking about the ATO (Australian Tax Office), nothing to do with paying or not paying tax in Thailand.

[Will27]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I go back to Australia every six months inside the 180 day maximum for medical checks.

I'm pretty sure returning to Oz twice a year wouldn't make you a resident (by the ATO guidelines).

 

Residency isn't just based on time away from Australia though.

There are other considerations taken into account.

 

The majority here would be non-residents I assume, but I can understand why people would claim residency due to non-residents not having a tax free threshold and high tax rates.

 

But as you stated earlier, the ATO usually have bigger fish to fry.

 

[Will27]

2 hours ago, giddyup said:

The ATO did track me down to Thailand and advised me that $600 was outstanding, and even though they said they wouldn't pursue me for payment I felt obliged to pay otherwise that amount would have just kept increasing with added interest.

I have managed to renew my Medicare card from Thailand and had it sent to a friends address in Australia. Whether I would be able to actually use it after 8 years I don't know, but if I fronted up to a hospital with a current Medicare card what are they going to do?

A forum member on here (who had a serious condition) phoned Medicare to enquire about his status.

He was told that he was eligible because he'd been back to Australia within the last 5 years.

 

Medicare told him if you go back within a 5 year period it gets triggered again.

There's a fair bit more in the All Aussie Related Stuff thread.

 

 

[emptypockets]

7 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah didn't he was OZ thought Home Forum only UK. ????

 

You must tell HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) if you’re

leaving the UK to live abroad permanently.

May as well be as this forum is infested with Poms. 5555

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, Will27 said:

I'm pretty sure returning to Oz twice a year wouldn't make you a resident (by the ATO guidelines).

 

Residency isn't just based on time away from Australia though.

There are other considerations taken into account.

 

The majority here would be non-residents I assume, but I can understand why people would claim residency due to non-residents not having a tax free threshold and high tax rates.

 

But as you stated earlier, the ATO usually have bigger fish to fry.

 

You may be right. However, I do have a residential address and am on the electoral roll. My tax return goes in every year, and the ATO accepts it.

AFAIK the 183 day rule for absence is an ATO rule.

[Will27]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You may be right. However, I do have a residential address and am on the electoral roll. My tax return goes in every year, and the ATO accepts it.

AFAIK the 183 day rule for absence is an ATO rule.

Same here.

 

The ATO accept it though because our system is based on self assessment.

They pretty much accept whatever you submit.

 

For example, if someone lives in Thailand for 50 weeks a year, they would find it hard

at an audit to prove residency, in most cases.

 

It's good to try and keep under the radar though, and unless you're selected for a random audit,

most people will be fine.

 

[emptypockets]

6 hours ago, giddyup said:

I doubt I'm assessed as having residential status as I have no address in Australia, no longer on any electoral roll, and never filled out a tax return in 9 years.

I've been wondering how Thailand will now treat income form overseas 'earnt'in that year.  Can a monthly pension now be deemed income and taxed locally if not taxed at source?  That'll send the pensioner community into meltdown!! 

[4MyEgo]

On 3/11/2019 at 2:07 PM, giddyup said:

I get a part aged pension plus a super pension, a small allocated pension plus interest from term deposits. Nothing is withheld either by the bank or Centrelink as far as tax goes, so I'm not sure if I owe the taxman money or not.

I am a non-resident for tax purposes as I live here, so no other choice, meaning even though I do maintain an address and PO Box in Australia, I am not a resident, the address and PO Box are simply there because Medicare and the Roads & Transport Authority ask for one, otherwise they will not forward my renewals to my PO Box.

 

I am no longer on the electoral roll as they removed me, so cannot vote, even though I am an Australian Citizen, stupid really if you ask me, although one would suggest the pollies would be worried if the X-pat community all got together in numbers, we might be as powerful as the pensioners when it comes to voting.

 

You do apparently get struck off Medicare after 5 years of not using your card, however as someone said, if you see a doctor within that 5 years, it gets reactivated and it is best to do so before the expiry date if you can, however if you have been away for longer than that, I would say you have Buckley's, i.e. you would have to go back, and reapply and provide them with all the docs they want which includes a utility bill, lease, drivers license etc etc, however for those who are under the 5 years, and do not have a MyGov account, best to set one up and link Medicare up to it, because if you have a mate or family in Oz, you can request a new card before the 5 years is up, although you would have to lie and say, "I lost it", shouldn't be too hard for most I would imagine, always look for the loophole, but do be aware, it might come back to sting you, what's that old saying, damned if you do, damned if you don't, but then again, if you don't use it, shouldn't be a problem, oi ????

 

As for owing the ATO money, well, I am not sure on pensions or super pensions, I would have thought that they would be tax free, but anyone one here on one could probably advise if they pay any tax as a non- resident on the pension or super pension, however I do recall when I claimed my super in full, I was a non-resident, but as I was within the age to claim it, there was no tax payable so that might give you an idea ?

 

Tax is payable at a rate of 32.5% as a non-resident if you earn ANY income from Australia, excluding fully franked shares in the ASX, Australian Stock Market.

 

If you earn bank interest, you MUST notify your bank that you are a non-resident so that they can deduct the 10% withholding tax on the interest earned and send it to the ATO, that said with all the new rules with money laundering etc etc, you will be jumping through hula hoops to prove to the bank who you are, regardless of how long you have been with them as a customer, it's the new criteria that the ATO has handed down to them and they must comply, otherwise they have to shut you down, so think about it, i.e. they will want certified copies of documents signed by a justice of the peace, which don't exist in Thailand, although you could go to a notary, usually a (Thai Lawyer) who for the pleasure will sign each document for about 1,500 baht, unless you have a mate back in Oz like I did who signed and scanned copies back to me, lol.....more than one way to skin a cat ????

 

The 32.5% tax is a pain if you do get work from Oz as I do every now and again (pain because I am retired) and my investments in the ASX (are non tax payable), but the work is so simple and so short, like under an hour and is about the equivalent to a month's Thai salary for a 7/11 worker, so I take it when it comes.

 

I simply put aside the 32.5% per job aside so when I do lodge my tax return, the money is already there for the transfer to the ATO upon their assessment to me via my accountant, so no dipping into my funds and the other 67.5% goes towards my drinking and women fund, that is; after I give my wife a small slice of what is left from the pie so she can fill her papaya salad addictions.

 

Personally I would write to the ATO and ask them the question, others will say don't wake the sleeping giant, but what if you did ever returned and got pulled up at the airport with ah, Mr Smith, we have to hold you as the ATO says you owe them XYZ$, now that would put a damper on things. I have always kept things clean as I like to sleep comfortably at night, besides there are others ways to avoid paying all the taxes that they would like to get their hands on.

 

Good luck in your decision and sleep well.