British lawmakers overwhelmingly back Brexit delay

[7by7]

10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I give up.

 

I explained (yet again) a couple of the things that were wrong with the eu/may deal - but you're still pretending that it's a mystery why anyone is against the deal....

You explained your opinions; for which I thank you.

 

I am not, and never have, pretended that it's a mystery why anyone is against the deal. It is a shame you have resorted to putting words into my mouth; I honestly thought doing such was beneath you.

 

What I am doing is trying to get others to say, as you have done, why they, personally are against the deal.

 

You did so, why can't they.

 

[Basil B]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I am not kidding anyone , what I said was that in other similar situations, when other people do similar things , cases not involving him, they dont usually prosecute .

   Yes, other people involved in this case with him may have been prosecuted , but many other people who have done similar things arent prosecuted , thats probably because the authorities dont do a thorough investigations in such matters involving other people

Loads of Mortgage fraudsters jailed...

 

Just google "mortgage fraudsters jailed"

[dick dasterdly]

7 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

You explained your opinions; for which I thank you.

 

I am not, and never have, pretended that it's a mystery why anyone is against the deal. It is a shame you have resorted to putting words into my mouth; I honestly thought doing such was beneath you.

 

What I am doing is trying to get others to say, as you have done, why they, personally are against the deal.

 

You did so, why can't they.

 

Because the main objections should be pretty obvious (they've certainly been reported in the press frequently, even the remain media) and we're all getting tired of reading and saying the same thing over and over again?

 

Edit - the only reason I finally responded was because I can't sleep for various reasons, and am not in the best of moods...

Edited March 16, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[sanemax]

42 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Really; you haven't even liked any of their posts?

 

I think we both know that you have!

Really , which post were they then ?

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Loads of Mortgage fraudsters jailed...

 

 Just google "mortgage fraudsters jailed"

Those are people who commit serious fraud who steal money, not something as trivial as submitting false payslips and when theres no monetary gain

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

paying it back, maybe if he could, but relying on a go fund me ponzi as income is a risk no lender will risk, and using fake documents is fraud, likewise with other fraud using someone else's passport.

 

I hope when he is retried he gets more than 13 months.

The reality is that (I have just looked the case up and have changed my stance somewhat)

Tommy lent two people 20 000 each for a house deposit , he then introduced them to a mortgage broker who provided them with false payslips , so that they could apply for a mortgage .

  Tommys crime was introducing mortgage applicants to a mortgage broker that provided fake payslips to get a mortgage .

   those things go on all the time and are not usually investigated 

[Basil B]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

The reality is that (I have just looked the case up and have changed my stance somewhat)

Tommy lent two people 20 000 each for a house deposit , he then introduced them to a mortgage broker who provided them with false payslips , so that they could apply for a mortgage .

  Tommys crime was introducing mortgage applicants to a mortgage broker that provided fake payslips to get a mortgage .

   those things go on all the time and are not usually investigated 

So where did you get that story...  

 

 

[Basil B]

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Nah, they're just desperately hoping that things will change for some reason so that the electorate will either agree with BRINO - or better yet (from their pov) revoking article 50.

As a person who voted remain, and willing to go with leave until last December when it was clear that there was no clear consensus on how and under what terms, I saw the writing on the wall, clearly TM has an idea accepted by middle of the road Tories, but has ERG on one side and closet remainers on the other, the Labour party will oppose anything, The DUP having received their bribe are now demanding more, and all the rest all want remain.

 

Tuesday will be Groundhog day #3, later in the week she is going to a EU summit to ask for an extension, and unless she got her deal agreed on Tuesday they are going to expect TM explain how an extension would break the deadlock, and how much time is needed.

 

Even if she only requested till end of June it is highly likely they will demand we run EU elections, this is not just a logistical nightmare fore the UK but it poses problems for the EU too, for the EU27 they will have to reallocate seats, possible having to run some sort of reserve depending on whether we leave or extend again or even revoke article 50, as for the UK I am not sure if there was any planing for a reduced number of seats from 72 to probably less than 66, but that means many regions having less MEP's than in 2014, then how prepared are the political parties? 

 

It does seem at least the Electoral Commission is prepared:

Quote

The United Kingdom and Gibraltar were due to be part of the 2019 European Parliament elections, but following the UK's decision to leave the European Union in 2016 the UK is scheduled to cease being a member of the European Union prior to the planned election date in 2019 in which case the elections will not occur.

However, on 27 May 2018 it was reported that the Electoral Commission had set aside £829,000 for its "activities relating to a European Parliamentary election in 2019". The Commission has described the money as a "precautionary measure, so that we have the necessary funds to deliver our functions at a European Parliamentary election, in the unlikely event that they do go ahead"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom

seems more likely than unlikely.

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, Basil B said:

So where did you get that story...  

https://www.dunstabletoday.co.uk/news/crime/former-edl-boss-jailed-for-mortgage-fraud-1-5830712

 

From here , where his Court case was reportedhttps://www.dunstabletoday.co.uk/news/crime/former-edl-boss-jailed-for-mortgage-fraud-1-5830712

 

 

 

 

 

[sanemax]

https://www.dunstabletoday.co.uk/news/crime/former-edl-boss-jailed-for-mortgage-fraud-1-5830712

[Basil B]

26 minutes ago, sanemax said:

From here , where his Court case was reportedhttps://www.dunstabletoday.co.uk/news/crime/former-edl-boss-jailed-for-mortgage-fraud-1-5830712

 

 

 

 

 

You just do not get it, the guy was a fraudster, what he did was to participate in a number of frauds and his crime was not petty, IMHO he was justly sentenced.

 

Presume the reason he spends so much time in solitary confinement is he annoys the prison officers so much they put the word around he is a nonce. 

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, Basil B said:

You just do not get it, the guy was a fraudster, what he did was to participate in a number of frauds and his crime was not petty, IMHO he was justly sentenced.

 

Presume the reason he spends so much time in solitary confinement is he annoys the prison officers so much they put the word around he is a nonce. 

Lets be realistic, you dont like the guy and you are happy to see him persecuted by the state , had this happened to someone that you like , you would have a different opinion .

  You even thought that be defrauded a bank of 560 000 GBP , the reality is that he just introduced mortgage lenders to a mortgage broker that gave dodgy payslips .

  Submitting false payslips isnt such a serious crime and he didnt even do it himself .

He spends time in solitary because they fear that he will be attacked by Muslims and you are making false assumptions about the reason why he is kept in solitary

[Basil B]

16 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Lets be realistic, you dont like the guy and you are happy to see him persecuted by the state , had this happened to someone that you like , you would have a different opinion .

  You even thought that be defrauded a bank of 560 000 GBP , the reality is that he just introduced mortgage lenders to a mortgage broker that gave dodgy payslips .

  Submitting false payslips isnt such a serious crime and he didnt even do it himself .

He spends time in solitary because they fear that he will be attacked by Muslims and you are making false assumptions about the reason why he is kept in solitary

[Loiner]

 
Fraud is fraud, and if discovered a blind eye is never turned.
 
Why are you defending this violent criminal?

I want to know what the fraud was. MSM simply continues its vilification and skirts around the subject, like you.
It’s very difficult to defraud a bank or mortgage company out of any money. There are no reports of any default in payments or losses by the banks for this offence, committed in 2009 and jailed in 2014. The detailed court records are not available for viewing.
From what we can see, he was on the periphery of a deal between a family member with a dodgy mortgage broker who produced the fake payslips. How did the charges arise and why would he plead guilty to something a lawyer should easily get him off?
It all smacks of state harassment and politically motivated imprisonment. His jailing in high security prisons, alongside life term jihadis, also raises questions about how they are putting his life at risk. If the establishment wants to get rid of him, they should do for the crimes they believe he has committed, not trumped up charges.

[Kwasaki]

15 hours ago, 7by7 said:

It's the best we are going to get, and infinitely better than leaving with no deal.

Agree but admit in a selfish way as I think £ / baht would not get worse. ????

[SheungWan]

15 hours ago, bomber said:

the jury wanted him in jail,a democratic vote won the day,maybe you would like to see a re-run in case people/the jury now think different.

Lining up with Tommy Robinson a litmus test for supporters flirting with fascism. See endless attempts at deflection on this thread.

[cleopatra2]

14 hours ago, sanemax said:

Those are people who commit serious fraud who steal money, not something as trivial as submitting false payslips and when theres no monetary gain

Tommy Robinson had already pled guilty to the charge at a previous hearing

[Kwasaki]

15 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

And then explain how they have arrived at a figure of 39bn

Because seems better, e.g. Oh it's 2000 baht, no it's 1999 baht OK I'll except that. ????

[Kwasaki]

16 hours ago, 7by7 said:

But ok, you have answered the first part of the question; how about answering the second.

 

With what would you replace the back stop?

 

Do you not believe that people should honour their financial commitments?

 

BRINO is a term oft bandied about. Perhaps you can explain why May's deal is such?

Can I jump in here.

 

The Irish backstop cannot be replaced with anything is one of items agreed on in a deal with the EU they will not accept anything else.

 

No comment except that's a funny question to ask in Thailand. 

 

Personally I don't see May's deal as this silly BRINO thing bought up.

 

 

[7by7]

8 hours ago, Loiner said:

I want to know what the fraud was. MSM simply continues its vilification and skirts around the subject, like you.
It’s very difficult to defraud a bank or mortgage company out of any money. There are no reports of any default in payments or losses by the banks for this offence, committed in 2009 and jailed in 2014. The detailed court records are not available for viewing.
From what we can see, he was on the periphery of a deal between a family member with a dodgy mortgage broker who produced the fake payslips. How did the charges arise and why would he plead guilty to something a lawyer should easily get him off?
It all smacks of state harassment and politically motivated imprisonment. His jailing in high security prisons, alongside life term jihadis, also raises questions about how they are putting his life at risk. If the establishment wants to get rid of him, they should do for the crimes they believe he has committed, not trumped up charges.

The numerous reports all state exactly what fraud Yaxley-Lennon and his co-conspirators were guilty of and his part in it. He is not the innocent victim of a state sponsored plot, he pleaded guilty at the trial. As did all his co-conspirators: Former EDL boss jailed for mortgage fraud

Quote

(The judge) described the former EDL leader as a “fixer” by introducing others to bent mortgage broker Deborah Rothschild...…

….....Judge Andrew Bright QC was told how Yaxley-Lennon had made loans totalling £40,000 to Vowles and later Moore to help them with the deposits for a property in Luton. But he also introduced them to crooked mortgage broker Deborah Rothschild who specialised in helping people obtain a mortgage who wouldn’t normally be eligible because of insufficient income and capital.

 

You can order a transcript of the trial via Auscript

 

Yaxley-Lennon is not the innocent victim you are trying to portray him as being.

 

In 2005 jailed for 12 months for assault occasioning actual bodily harm, for which he was sentenced to 12 months’ imprisonment, and assault with intent to resist arrest, for which he received a concurrent term of three months. His victim being an off duty police officer who had intervened to prevent him from violently assaulting his then girlfriend.

 

In 2010 charged with assaulting a police officer during clashes at a poppy burning protest. After the fighting, a police officer was taken to hospital after trying to intervene in a 50 man brawl.

In 2011, Robinson was convicted of assault for an attack at an EDL march in Blackburn. After he was goaded for being a government and police informant Robinson launched into a verbal tirade against those protesting against him. Robinson then proceeded to headbutt one of the march goers.

 

In July 2011 found guilty of leading a brawl that included 100 Luton Town football fans into a fight with Newport County fans. Fans were heard chanting ‘EDL till I die.’ For the crime committed, he was given a suspended 12-month prison sentence and banned from Luton football matches for 3 years. Football hooliganism is a favourite pastime of his. His favourite alias being the name of a well known extremely violent Luton hooligan who Yaxley-Lennon hero worships.

 

In January 2013 jailed for 10 months for travelling to the USA on his friend’s passport. Robinson admitted the charge of possession of a false identity document with improper intention. The passport Robinson used was under the name of Andrew McMaster. He checked himself in on the way out from Heathrow airport however when he arrived in the USA customs officials took his fingerprints and realised he was using a passport that was not his own.

 

Not to mention his contempt of court conviction and upcoming retrial for the same offence. Offences which had he been allowed to continue could easily have led to at best a retrial of the accused, thus putting their victims through the pain of testifying again, or at worst the vile creatures actually having their convictions declared unsafe, quashed and so getting away with it.

 

Why has Yaxley-Lennon never spoken out about child sexual abuse committed by white people? The news has been full of it lately with the Catholic priest scandal; Yaxley-Lennon has nothing to say on the matter. 

 

The answer is simple; he doesn't care about children, he doesn't care about the victims; all he care about his promoting his own agenda so fools like you send him money.

 

The Phony Martyrdom of Tommy Robinson

Quote

Last month, an irate Steve Bannon fulminated against Britain’s “liberal elite” and insisted that Tommy Robinson was “the ******* backbone of this country.”

Bannon’s comments came after a soft-soap radio interview with former UK Independence Party (UKIP) leader Nigel Farage. It was left to Farage, of all people, to clarify that, far from being the backbone of the country, “everybody hates Tommy Robinson.”

 

But what has this violent criminal got to do with this topic?

[7by7]

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

<snip>

The Irish backstop cannot be replaced with anything is one of items agreed on in a deal with the EU they will not accept anything else.

Indeed, but at two members have said that it is one aspect of the deal which they are against; so asking them with what they would replace it is, I believe, a fair question.

 

Not that either of them made even the slightest attempt at answering it. In true Brexiteer fashion they know what they don't want, but not what they do. That has been the case ever since the referendum campaign began and still is today.

 

4 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Personally I don't see May's deal as this silly BRINO thing bought up.

Neither do I; but BRINO is a convenient excuse for Brexiteers not to go into details of why they ate against May's , now amended, deal.

 

Funnily enough, their champions the ERG, led by Rees-Mogg, don't seem to be concerned with this so called BRINO. Their concern is merely the legalities of the Irish backstop.

 

ERG signals it could back May's Brexit deal if legal advice is clearer 

Quote

The majority of Eurosceptic MPs from the European Research Group (ERG) voted against May’s revised deal, defeating it for a second time, because Cox advised there was only a “reduced risk” that the UK could be trapped indefinitely in the Northern Ireland backstop and therefore a customs union with the EU.

 

However, discussions are taking place around a point that Jacob Rees-Mogg, the ERG chair, raised in the House of Commons before Tuesday’s vote, relating to “how article 62 of the Vienna convention could be used”.

 

[sanemax]

Just now, 7by7 said:

Indeed, but at two members have said that it is one aspect of the deal which they are against; so asking them with what they would replace it is, I believe, a fair question.

 

Not that either of them made even the slightest attempt at answering it. In true Brexiteer fashion they know what they don't want, but not what they do. That has been the case ever since the referendum campaign began and still is today.

 

Neither do I; but BRINO is a convenient excuse for Brexiteers not to go into details of why they ate against May's , now amended, deal.

 

Funnily enough, their champions the ERG, led by Rees-Mogg, don't seem to be concerned with this so called BRINO. Their concern is merely the legalities of the Irish backstop.

 

ERG signals it could back May's Brexit deal if legal advice is clearer 

 

Please start a new thread asking you question 

[sanemax]

30 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Yaxley-Lennon is not the innocent victim you are trying to portray him as being.

 

I am not claiming that he is an "innocent victim " though , I am just stating that his conviction for mortgage fraud involved himself introducing potential house buyers to a mortgage broker who provided fake payslips for themselves to get a mortgage and TR actually lent those people 20 000 each for a house deposit .

  Posters thought that TR defrauded banks of 640 000 , but that was just the loans that people received from banks to buy houses and that money would have been paid back .

   No money was stolen during the fraud , its was just fake payslips used to obtain a mortgage

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

I am not claiming that he is an "innocent victim " though , I am just stating that his conviction for mortgage fraud involved himself introducing potential house buyers to a mortgage broker who provided fake payslips for themselves to get a mortgage and TR actually lent those people 20 000 each for a house deposit .

  Posters thought that TR defrauded banks of 640 000 , but that was just the loans that people received from banks to buy houses and that money would have been paid back .

   No money was stolen during the fraud , its was just fake payslips used to obtain a mortgage

Maybe with your expert legal advice presented by his lawyers instead of whatever was presented at the time he might have been able to avoid being banged up.

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Maybe with your expert legal advice presented by his lawyers instead of whatever was presented at the time he might have been able to avoid being banged up.

No chance , the authorities wanted him in jail and they used this as an excuse , the authorities wanted him in jail , they would have gotton him for something  

[7by7]

10 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Please start a new thread asking you question 

I have already said that I have given up expecting anything like an answer.

 

8 minutes ago, sanemax said:

46 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Yaxley-Lennon is not the innocent victim you are trying to portray him as being. 

 

I am not claiming that he is an "innocent victim "

Where have I said that you are?

 

10 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I am just stating that his conviction for mortgage fraud involved himself introducing potential house buyers to a mortgage broker who provided fake payslips for themselves to get a mortgage and TR actually lent those people 20 000 each for a house deposit .

  Posters thought that TR defrauded banks of 640 000 , but that was just the loans that people received from banks to buy houses and that money would have been paid back .

   No money was stolen during the fraud , its was just fake payslips used to obtain a mortgage

That is a crime, a crime known as conspiracy.

 

He was charged with two counts of conspiring with others to obtain a mortgage by misrepresentation from the Abbey and Halifax. He pleaded guilty to both counts.

[SheungWan]

53 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

The Phony Martyrdom of Tommy Robinson

But what has this violent criminal got to do with this topic?

There have always been some neo-fascist Conspiracy Theorists along for the ride on the Brexit cause. Some have been intimating 'people's' violence if the Brexit cause was derailed and since fascists are always on the lookout for their next 'great leader', Robinson is fitting the bill for the patriotic 'project'. 

Edited March 17, 2019 by SheungWan

[7by7]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

No chance , the authorities wanted him in jail and they used this as an excuse , the authorities wanted him in jail , they would have gotton him for something  

If he doesn't want to go to jail he should stop committing crimes; often violent crimes!

 

This is a topic on Brexit; if you want to continue defending this odious, violent thug then you should follow your earlier advice to me and start a new thread.

[7by7]

16 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I am not claiming that he is an "innocent victim " though

Seems you have changed you mind very quickly on that!

 

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

No chance , the authorities wanted him in jail and they used this as an excuse , the authorities wanted him in jail , they would have gotton him for something  

 

[SheungWan]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

No chance , the authorities wanted him in jail and they used this as an excuse , the authorities wanted him in jail , they would have gotton him for something  

Yeah. Pure as the driven snow.