ATV help needed

[Cake Monster]

Hi all !,

I have a Chinese 250 cc 4 Wheeler with ignition issues.

I have sought the  help and advice of a few Thai Mechanics and " experts " but non of them seem to know what to do about the problem of the non-starting Quad.

Are there any kind souls out there maybe in the Moto X fraternity than can help me out on this one ? Can you recommend a Moto X bike fixer in the Pattaya vicinity that can maybe help me out ?

Thanks in advance

 

[ktm jeff]

Are you able to transport the quad to the garage. There is Eddys motorcross bike shop in Pattaya. Some more details of the problem may help. Spark at plug . Power in/out of  coil. Bad earth somewhere. Power in/out of ignition switch.

 

[Anythingleft?]

Does it turn over at least? Is it starter, spark or fuel?
Can we take it that it was working and has just stopped?....

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[Cake Monster]

Hi KTM jeff and Anythingleft,

Thanks for your replies.

The problem with the Atv seems to be something to do with the CDI, and its Ignition 

The Quad was working fine and then stopped suddenly. A relative of mine ( Thai ) got his mate to look at it and he replaced the CDi ( I think - not sure ) and it then worked OK for a short while before again grinding to a halt.

The bike turns over,so its not the battery or electric start, and the fuel is going to the Carb, so its not that.

Being a Mechanical Engineer, I know a little something about what happens within the ignition system. ( but not everything ) , and I tried to find a CDI unit in Pattaya which was a waste of time.

Apparently, my Thai relative says there is power going to the CDI, but nothing coming out. Maybe its the Stator ? not sending the trigger pulse to the CDi Unit, or a minefield of CDI units ( which is the correct one ? ) therefore no spark at the Plug.

KTM, where is Eddys shop ? Maybe I could pay a visit and ask for initial thoughts from him, and if hes up to the job, I can then get the Quad to him.

Only I am fed up with people saying " bring the bike to my shop and I can fix it " then being told after 2 or 3 weeks that they cant and have to arrange transport all over again .

at more expense.

I really appreciate your input fella,s 

Thanks

 

[thaiguzzi]

If it's a Chinese 250 (actual 230cc) air cooled single, either OHV or OHC, the tuk tuk shops and generic GPX/Lifan type Chinese M/C shops sell these engines and the spares.

Nip into your local and buy a new CDI unit.

Cost will be ridiculously cheap.

Hell a complete new motor with carb, CDI unit, coil etc etc is only 11-12k.

[Cake Monster]

Its a 250 water cooled machine with manual clutch Etc

[ktm jeff]

What is the quad make , Lion or Basham , or engine ID code. Maybe something like 189FMM etc. Do you have the original CDI unit , or its ID. Eddys was ( its been a few years since i was down Pattaya way ) over on the "Darkside" , near the big auction place. Sorry , i dont have the phone number.

[Cake Monster]

The quad is a Zongshen 

Cannot find engine ref code

I really am not sure if the CDI I have is the original, as it was swapped out and I  dont know now if the guy that did that really knew what he was doing, and these things are just a " black box" with no numbers on them  

 

[ktm jeff]

Zongshen Ryuka are a good and popular company. They make some good bikes , but i never knew they made quads. I would search out the local dealers. The biggest problem will be finding a decent mechanic unless the dealer is good. At least he will have access to parts. Independent shops arent too keen on this type of "generic" bike , as they cant always identify the parts. Zongshen Ryuka dealers would be my first choice. The engine code should be stamped into the lower area of the block / gearbox. This may be needed for part identification.

[Cake Monster]

KTM

I have tried to find dealers here in Thailand, but it seems to be a waste of time. And yes, Zongshen manufacture some good machines and engines of all kinds. They are a huge company 

The Zongshen , Lifan, and Licon brands seem to be a " family " at the better end of the Chinese Quad market. ( if there is one )

Will look for the Engine code again _ Thanks

Your opinion on the shops not liking this kind of bike is true. Because its not a GY6 maybe a little grey matter has to be applied to the problem - something many Thais are reluctant to do.

looked today for the MotoX shop in Soi Khao Noi for maybe some help - but no longer there

My search for a solution to the problem continues. 

 

[Anythingleft?]

If you have, or get, a cheap multimeter there are some basic tests that you can do at home to save you going to various shops that dont or wont help

CDI's are pretty robust and not a regular failure item in my experience, unless you have been unlucky....

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[ktm jeff]

If Eddys has gone - unless somebody else knows another shop - you could try WWW.ZONGSHENTHAILAND.COM   Get details of a local dealer.  Parts are sometimes difficult to identify , hence many shops reluctance to spend hours looking for a simple part. No thinking outside of the box here. 

[Cake Monster]

I am looking for the dealer in Bowin, which is close to my home or the one in Pattaya for the parts.

A Multimeter seems to be the way to go. At least I will know which is working correctly and which is not 100% . This way I can clarify in my own mind some of the issues ( maybe ), and not rely on what other people are telling me.

There is too much spurious stuff flying around which is confusing me to say the least

My own early thoughts on the issue seem to point toward to the Stator / Magneto, because I have been told there is power into the CDi but none  coming out.

Maybe the pulse pickup has conked out.

A Multimeter should help with that.

Thanks again guys

 

[VocalNeal]

According to their website the head office for Zonshen is in Rayong. There is a watercooled Adventure bike on the website. 

 

Rayong would be my first stop, armed with the engine number. 

[Cake Monster]

6 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

According to their website the head office for Zonshen is in Rayong. There is a watercooled Adventure bike on the website. 

 

Rayong would be my first stop, armed with the engine number. 

 

6 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

According to their website the head office for Zonshen is in Rayong. There is a watercooled Adventure bike on the website. 

 

Rayong would be my first stop, armed with the engine number. 

I have had a little time to view their Website, and spotted the water cooled bike.

Maybe I can get lucky, and they have not modified the Engine so much, where the spares will still fit my old machine.

There is a dealer ( according to the website ) in Bowin, which is just down the road from me, so I will contact them in the next day or so ( busy ) and ask if they can help.

Thanks for your input

 

 

[ktm jeff]

You seem to be heading in the right direction. Please let us know the outcome.

 

[Cake Monster]

KTM,

Thanks for the encouragement. This has been an epic problem over several months now due to ( so called experts / time wasters / red herrings Etc ).

Ok, I know this old quad is not a top Marque, but it will get me out and about into the hills and countryside near my home when I can enjoy some clean ( ish ) air and peace a quiet for an hour or so now and again.

And at my age, I do not intent to be burning up the tracks, as the Thais say " Cha-Cha " for me and enjoy.

Hopefully now, I will be able to sort this issue out properly, and yes, I will inform you guys of the outcome once I have the thing running 

Thanks to all you guys for the help and encouragement. Maybe one day we will meet, and its my first round

[Cake Monster]

I am absolutely flabbergasted !

Contacted both the Pattaya and the Bowin " Agents " for Zongshen and the response was exactly the same from them both ( almost word for word )

" We only sell new bikes, and we dont have a spare parts Dept or a Service Dept "

I have sent an email to Zongshen Thailand stating how bad their Agents / dealership policy,s are and asking for other ideas from them.

Another S#%$$* Day in Paradise !

 

[VocalNeal]

I would get in a car/or/or and head to Rayong with engine number in hand. Relying on emails and the like in Thailand is a pointless exercise.

 

OR take the beast to BIRA on a Monday morning and find Harold? the German (usually sans shirt) mechanic guy ( he will be working on bikes) and ask him if he can help? If not buy a coffee and just have a chat with the guys.

Edited March 29, 2019 by VocalNeal

[VocalNeal]

Just a thought. Have we eliminated the handlebar kill switch from the equation? maybe disconnect that first? As it may ground out the ignition. 

[ktm jeff]

2 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Just a thought. Have we eliminated the handlebar kill switch from the equation? maybe disconnect that first? As it may ground out the ignition. 

He has been told there is power going into the CDI , but unless one can confirm , its all just 50/50.  Im very annoyed with the unhelpful response of Zongshen. How do they ( and other "generic" bike makers ) expect to be taken seriously if they dont stock spares. You can see why people default to the main players , to avoid this problem. A personal visit may bear fruit , rather than e-mails.  Theres a Zongshen shop in Chiang Mai where the lady owner is helpful. I can ask her for phone numbers of contacts in Pattaya if this helps. 

[Cake Monster]

I still cant find the engine number !

There is no kill switch, and the lights come on when the key is turned on, so this points to a DC CDI Unit

If it were AC it would have a kill switch and the engine needs to turn over for power in order for the lights to work.

The wiring on the CDI wires is also for DC.

Thais dont know the difference - fact. Asked for DC CDI in 2 large supply stores in Pattaya and was virtually laughed out of one shop with one little assistant prat pointing to the lights in the shop and joking AC Mister 

I have since contacted Zongshen at their Rayong Plant and spoke to a nice Lass who seems to be pulling out the stops to help me. She has the title of Ass,t General Manager,and has offered to send a Mechanic to my home to at least look at the Quad.

I think my email to Zongshen in Rayong sent the brown stuff into the fan, and I get the impression that they are either unaware of their Agents attitude towards their customers, or they have been complacent, and my email woke them up a little. 

Vocal and KTM, I will keep both your suggestions on the back burner for now and see what develops with Zongshen.

Thanks again guys, my bar bill keeps on rising

 

[VocalNeal]

I think i would offer to take the bike to them then they have all tjeir resources and no excuses.

[ktm jeff]

If the mechanic comes to him ( now thats good service ) and cant fix on site , maybe he will take it away , to further investigate. Its encouraging they are pulling out the stops to fix this. I know Zongshen is a good company , so lets hope they lead the way for other generic motorcycle companies , in customer service.

[ktm jeff]

The engine code could be ZS 170 FMM. It might be behind the gear lever. A video on Youtube , suggests the engine kill switch ( if it has one ) is on the left side of the bars , under the light switch , in the place the indicator switch would be. May be worth checking 

[Cake Monster]

There is no kill switch on the bars. The engine stop is on the key.

I have one to wire in as a safety thing in the future, but its no good wiring in a kill switch on a dead engine , so it can wait a while .

I will again look for the engine number in the place that you suggest KTM, as this is an important thing for the Zongshen people to have, so they can establish its manufacture data Etc.

Hopefully this lass at Zongshen can get the right guys to look into this problem for me, and its just not a BS exercise on their part.

I have to go into Pattaya today, so I will look for a cheap Multimeter in Watsadu.

Then I can look at some basic stuff for myself, and get a clearer picture hopefully as to what the issue may be.

Thanks again for your input fella,s

  

[canuckamuck]

You can get lucky sometimes on Ebay with Chinese quad parts. Get a new CDI, if it doesn't work, it isn't the problem.

If it was the kill switch, the bike wouldn't turn over by the ignition switch. 

You could be having carburetor or valve problems. Does it have compression?

[Cake Monster]

I have found Ali Express really good for spare parts for the Quad

OK delivery is about 2 weeks but the prices are good and the parts fit.

KTM, I found the engine number tucked in under the gear shift shaft where it enters the casing, - Just as you said _ thanks, so sent that to Zongshen lady to help them with the spare parts issue.

The CDI is an issue, because I believe it to be a DC unit, but the Thais keep wanting to put in a CDi unit for a Honda Wave and I think that is an AC unit

The wiring to the CDI points toward it being DC as do other things ( see above post )

Carb and compression not an issue, this is an Electrical issue

[Cake Monster]

Update on the situation

A couple of guys from Zongshen Rayong came to my house just after lunch and did a quick do it / dont it work check on the Compression - OK Electric  Start - Ok then took off the Stator casing to reveal the Stator Etc.

The Quad has 2 wiring looms on board ! from what I can gather from them.

It has DC for light, horn Etc which work on the key without Engine turn over, and then it has an AC Ignition loom which will only work on Engine turn over off the Stator / Magneto.

No wonder I have been confused !

CDI wiring is for DC, which I assume is the same for 6 pin AC unit, thats why the hot wire in was colored red/black for AC power.and not just red.for DC ( I  though it was a cobbled thing -Duh )

When told the Thai guys were going to put in Honda Wave CDI unit the nearly flipped his lid, and said that really was a bad.

Anyhow, they have taken the Quad away on a pickup Truck and say they can fix and it will take about 2/3 weeks ( I guess to get the correct parts from Zongshen in China ) or a que for service.

Its good that things seem to be moving along in the right direction now

I will keep you guys posted as and when things develop, thanks to you all again.

Zongshen really have restored my faith in Chinese product after pulling out the stops like this-a big thanks to them. - 5 stars I think.

 

[ktm jeff]

Well done Zongshen. That sounds good service to come to your house , and take the quad away. Shame they cant get the part/s earlier , but i guess they dont stock everything.