Immigration proposes much harsher penalties for failing to report foreigners staying in Thailand

[DrTuner]

22 minutes ago, zydeco said:

You know, I don't even begrudge them making whatever they think is their due. I just want to know what the rules are ahead of time. And by ahead of time, I mean give me at least a year's warning. When these changes bubble up out of the blue or become enforced retroactively, it makes going through renewals like skipping through a minefield.

It's all included in the core of the magical charm of living in an exotic tropical paradise called Thailand. Enjoy folks!

[ttrd]

45 minutes ago, zydeco said:

You know, I don't even begrudge them making whatever they think is their due. I just want to know what the rules are ahead of time. And by ahead of time, I mean give me at least a year's warning. When these changes bubble up out of the blue or become enforced retroactively, it makes going through renewals like skipping through a minefield.

Isn't it a little to much to expect that we get a grace period longer that we could expect back home? If we want a Thailand similar to our home country which will remove its charm and identity which again laid the basis for what attracted us in the first place, what is then the purpose to move here?

 

As guests we need to accept it all which means both pros and cons or just leave - actually not more complicated than that ...

[LongTang]

52 minutes ago, zydeco said:

You know, I don't even begrudge them making whatever they think is their due. I just want to know what the rules are ahead of time. And by ahead of time, I mean give me at least a year's warning. When these changes bubble up out of the blue or become enforced retroactively, it makes going through renewals like skipping through a minefield.

I would have generally agreed with you, But i think this time they have gone too far. One thing is the TM6 and 90days reporting, this i can understand. Reporting on your every move within 24hrs when traveling inside thailand, This is taken from some very dark places and we should all voice our concerns and pray that somehow it will put pressure to revert this step towards a, lets just call it "very unpleasant" future.

[Bday Prang]

6 hours ago, Geordie59 said:

I would have no issue with any if this if the reporting could be done by individuals online just like hotels are supposed to do  

It can be done online 

 

[lkv]

6 minutes ago, ttrd said:

Isn't it a little to much to expect that we get a grace period longer that we could expect back home? If we want a Thailand similar to our home country which will remove its charm and identity which again laid the basis for what attracted us in the first place, what is then the purpose to move here?

 

As guests we need to accept it all which means both pros and cons or just leave - actually not more complicated than that ...

I think many people remember Thailand pre 2014, when it was more fun.

 

Many accepted the corruption that came along, but we did not sign up for any military regimes and anti foreigner propaganda.

 

Some had enough and departed, myself included a month ago.

 

We'll keep watching for further developments.

[LongTang]

13 minutes ago, ttrd said:

As guests we need to accept it all which means both pros and cons or just leave - actually not more complicated than that ...

Easy to say for someone with zero emotional and monetary investment here.. ????

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

I think here's where it's come from https://www.refworld.org/docid/3ae6b4d40.html

 

Alien registration act, 1950, that's since become the immigration act. Section 12.

 

We're talking about an era when automobiles in Thailand were still a rarity. So glad they manage to update their laws often.

 

(To find the origin of immigration acts, follow the path indicated by what is being superseded)

This is about foreigners who have permanent residency in Thailand, not about people who entered temporarily.

And it looks like the laws didn't change since then

Somebody posted this picture of the registration book which permanent residents have in another thread, still includes the same things:

[ttrd]

3 minutes ago, lkv said:

I think many people remember Thailand pre 2014, when it was more fun.

 

Many accepted the corruption that came along, but we did not sign up for any military regimes and anti foreigner propaganda.

 

Some had enough and departed, myself included a month ago.

 

We'll keep watching for further developments.

Everything that start with fun doesn't always end with fun - we get used to, we forget that we are guests and start to think as a inhabitant and begins to demand without any right to do so...

 

The corruption has existed long before 2014 and the assumption that it has worsened it nothing but an assumption ...

 

The military coups has come and gone over the years so nothing new this either ...

 

Better to spend time investigating alternative locations with the proviso that you will not reach an age of at least 150 ...

 

 

 

[rabas]

24 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Then, why is Immigration going back in time to enforce these 1979 laws that haven't been enforced because they are technologically obsolete?

 

The laws have always been enforced for hotels, resorts, and some condos.  Other, very inconvenient parts of the law have been ignored, as they should be. Then sometime last year a foreigner (I think Chinese) living in a high rise condo along the Chaophraya river started complaining to officials about noise (imagine!, in Thailand!) coming from a nearby Wat with a large bell. So it starts with a foreigner complaining about a Thai Wat to Thai officials.

 

While investigating what's wrong with this foreigner or how to get rid of him to preserve Buddhism, they discover there is no record of his residency, or the residency of most foreigners renting from Thai condo owners in the building.  So Thai culture is being  threatened by missing TM30s.

 

Now, Thai Immigration is run by the Royal Thai police who have no power to make laws, only the government can do that.  And, immigration is currently involved in cleaning up their own rampant corruption including external Thai agents, and now it seems Thais renting to foreigners.  Since they can't make new laws they must fully enforce TM30, which is simply not possible. 

[DrTuner]

6 minutes ago, jackdd said:

This is about foreigners who have permanent residency in Thailand, not about people who entered temporarily.

True, noticed it now. The Immigration act that precedes the current one is from the same year as that registration act, likely they incorporated the same ideas.

 

I distinctly remember tracing the reporting requirement back all the way to the 40's, it was a huge job and I think I did put it down here on TVF, but can't find the post. IIRC I had to google the Thai documents and struggle through them. If anybody finds my ramblings from a few years ago, please post the link.

[lkv]

2 minutes ago, ttrd said:

Everything that start with fun doesn't always end with fun - we get used to, we forget that we are guests and start to think as a inhabitant and begins to demand without any right to do so...

 

The corruption has existed long before 2014 and the assumption that it has worsened it nothing but an assumption ...

 

The military coups has come and gone over the years so nothing new this either ...

 

Better to spend time investigating alternative locations with the proviso that you will not reach an age of at least 150 ...

 

 

 

I'm lucky to be 37 and not monetarily invested, nevertheless I feel Thailand is taking a direction not to my liking, similar to China and North Korea. 

 

I think it's better that I watch all these "developments" from outside rather than inside, and if things should become more foreigner friendly, I can always jump in a plane and check it out again. But that's just me.

[madmen]

18 minutes ago, LongTang said:

Easy to say for someone with zero emotional and monetary investment here.. ????

Anything is fixable. Meet the market with your investments and your out. Take your family back to first world. However the problem tends to be with the farang who does not want to leave

[donim]

 

 

[rabas]

40 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

It can be done online 

 

I looked at the online portal and it's designed for businesses or owners who actively rent or let property to foreigners.  You, the foreigner travelling around do not file the form.  It also requires the owner have a pre-approved account with immigration. I think someone who owns their own condo and has a tabien ban can get an account, but it only helps you when you return home, or when have others come and stay.

 

If there is something else I would be interested to know.

[nausea]

Agree, if these things get taken seriously, there'll be a lot more leaving. Most of us are hanging on cos we know that what get's said and what get's done are very different. But thete is a tipping point. I think they rather underestimate the millions us Western ex-pats bring here. I've brought 5/6 million baht here myself apart from what I earned in-country, all of which went into the local economy - no sending money home for me. Future guys won't. They'll go somewhere else. I can quite easily take my pension to another country, that's another 5/6 million they'll lose out on. Up to you as they say. A lot of guys have sunk costs - wife, children, property, dogs, pickup; not so easy for them. I've always made a point of staying free - yeah, I have a house, pickup, dogs, no children thankfully, but none in my name. In fact, I'm free as the wind. Ha!

[steve187]

1 hour ago, Bday Prang said:

It can be done online 

 

where

[steve187]

6 hours ago, Jay2013 said:

What would happen if somebody enters thailand, on a non-o visa and lists his wifes address in a rural part of thailand on the landing card, and she doesnt report because shes unaware, but the foriegner leaves before the 90 days entry stamp is up, and doesnt want to extend, to go bk home?? Will he face any issues at the airport for his wife failing to report??

 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

nothing

 

[dcnx]

51 minutes ago, lkv said:

I'm lucky to be 37 and not monetarily invested, nevertheless I feel Thailand is taking a direction not to my liking, similar to China and North Korea. 

 

I think it's better that I watch all these "developments" from outside rather than inside, and if things should become more foreigner friendly, I can always jump in a plane and check it out again. But that's just me.

That’s the smart thing to do. You can always come back later.

[humbug]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

 

The laws have always been enforced for hotels, resorts, and some condos.  Other, very inconvenient parts of the law have been ignored, as they should be. Then sometime last year a foreigner (I think Chinese) living in a high rise condo along the Chaophraya river started complaining to officials about noise (imagine!, in Thailand!) coming from a nearby Wat with a large bell. So it starts with a foreigner complaining about a Thai Wat to Thai officials.

 

While investigating what's wrong with this foreigner or how to get rid of him to preserve Buddhism, they discover there is no record of his residency, or the residency of most foreigners renting from Thai condo owners in the building.  So Thai culture is being  threatened by missing TM30s.

 

Now, Thai Immigration is run by the Royal Thai police who have no power to make laws, only the government can do that.  And, immigration is currently involved in cleaning up their own rampant corruption including external Thai agents, and now it seems Thais renting to foreigners.  Since they can't make new laws they must fully enforce TM30, which is simply not possible. 

i dont know how you came up with that picture, but this hostile environment has increased since the nationalists took over 5 years ago, remember 500,000 burmese/cambodians fleeing to the borders 4 years ago? 

7 years ago a single dinosaur nationalist protest at a stadium next to mbk lasted 1 day and soon after changed clothes to be the bangkok shutdown mob, but for those 7 hours, that day, spoke of their intentions, we were just 1% of their speech, but most of what they said has come to fruition. Yes its was hype but shutting down the country for 5 years and kicking out foreigners, for all of the bravado, they are starting to inch away those nationalist statements that day. 

[Oww]

Both wrong. Tm30 was enacted in response to the 2015 erawan shrine bombing by disgruntled Uyghurs which killed 20 people. 

[zappalot]

On 3/26/2019 at 9:18 AM, Lee4Life said:

Laos, Vietnam, China.....and what do you suppose those countries all have in common?

 

In neither of these countries my airbnb hosts ever wanted to see anything from me, no passports and no nothing. So obviously reporting is not enforced (last stay in Guangdong province just 12 days ago)...

[rabas]

49 minutes ago, Oww said:

Both wrong. Tm30 was enacted in response to the 2015 erawan shrine bombing by disgruntled Uyghurs which killed 20 people. 

That's unlikely because the current  house-master, owner reporting requirements  are specified in the Thai Immigration Act, B.E. 2522 (1979) forty years ago.

 

https://www.refworld.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/rwmain?page=search&docid=46b2f9f42&skip=0&query=Alien%20Registration%20&coi=THA

 

Section 37 is foreigner notification requirements when travelling to a new province for more than 24 hours

Section 38. Condo, House owner, Hotelier reporting requirements when you say anywhere other than your residence, i.e. TM30 rules

 

The bombing may have contributed to the current decision to raise the fine.

[Dinobot]

This is the era of big joke indeed!

[gunderhill]

On 3/26/2019 at 8:44 AM, webfact said:

A new flag shaped design is in the offing.

VITAL

[lamyai3]

6 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

On 3/26/2019 at 8:44 AM, webfact said:

A new flag shaped design is in the offing.

VITAL

A new offal shaped design would be more appropriate. 

[Destiny1990]

If locals also need to report at an immigration office soon as they leave their hometown for longer than 24 hours than its fair but now it is far from fair!

 

[raccos21]

Yep, no complaints or suggestions brothers because no matter what, they are rules maker and we are just outsiders, if we can't meet their requirements then leave is the best option rather than arguing. Of course, they did an observation on many incidents in the past years. I remember that back in the 80s everything great here most foreigners came here are treated like red carpet Oscars but today time changed because there are too many Oscars here so they need to do something about it. They are sending a message to us that they don't really need our contributions anymore or taking care of their people. The best if you don't like it just leave.

[5633572526]

On 3/26/2019 at 9:18 AM, Lee4Life said:

Laos, Vietnam, China.....and what do you suppose those countries all have in common?

Can’t speak for Laos and have no desire to ever visit China but my 1 year tourist visa to Vietnam did not require any reporting or contact with immigration. Visa granted over the internet while I was here in Thailand Visa was put in my passport at the airport upon arrival so maybe you can count that as 1 contact but that is it for the past year.

[midzo]

On 3/26/2019 at 4:31 PM, itzmeacire said:

lol .. okay so it works with those browsers too.. the point here is to let others know that it is working and they can use it for their convenience. 

It seems hit and miss. I had it work once. Other times, no go.

 

I recently tried IE, Edge and Chrome on three different PCs, 1 Windows 7 and 2 Windows 10. No joy.

 

I find the mail-in method the easiest and most reliable way to go. 

[Kalasin Jo]

On 3/26/2019 at 3:18 AM, Kasset Tak said:

So, EU should impose the same on Thai nationals... when Thais's have a Schengen visa, then they are free to travel and stay where ever they want all over the Schengen area without even go to immigration... as long as they have a valid visa!
The countries they are sighting to have these rules are countries like China, North Korea and other highly controlled countries!

Yup. Control freaks. Plus greed. The whole business of living in Thailand is becoming rather work than a big joke. As others have said, the obligation and the fine may be on the housemaster but it's us that ends up paying. A farce for long term recidents. who came and go from what is in practice their own permanent home.