Trump says he can produce a better healthcare plan than Obamacare

[direction BANGKOK]

People are finally, after decades, starting to wise up about this. The data just does not lie, those charts on lifespans vs money spent... it is so clear.

 

Insurance companies are the answer to every evil. Everything about it is wrong. They pay the people who deserve the money the least they possibly can and give themselves bonuses. Is there any doubt at all this is why we pay so much and get the worst care?!... all the money is going into pockets of greedy third parties, who do not even need to be involved. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/03/08/this-chart-is-a-powerful-indictment-of-our-current-healthcare-system/?utm_term=.b2bc6c7ab6a9

 

I will admit, it doesn't happen often, but Americans are finally pulling their heads out and realizing health insurance is a scam and that they should be getting this stuff as a citizen who pays taxes. Will taxes be higher. Yes! But we will be paying less than when we pad insurance companies pockets as we do now. 

 

Cannot be more simple: which one is better?...

Health care plus insurance company profit margins and overhead or just health care? How is this even a question worth considering? 

Edited March 28, 2019 by direction BANGKOK

[ShortTimed]

I really don’t care about this enough to waste time responding to each point.

 

Some you are correct.

 

Others you are not.

 

Yes, I was type-2 diabetic until I lost some weight. My good friend in America is type-1 abd has to wear an insulin pump. He has explained to me about his treatment and the advantages to him of ACA mandated HC through his employer.

 

Please go talk to Americans who have experience with this because they are having a very different negative experience than what you are reading.

 

You are correct that HC costs have been rising and outpacing inflation for 20 years before ACA but the most rapid increases are occurring from 2011 until now.

 

Please try and not be blinded by your partisanship blinders.

 

And you must have zero understanding of the relationship of corporate interest and US lawmakers if you think they will give up their profit to fashion a working HC model based on these other countries you fail to name.

 

Are you American?

Are you a participant in the ACA “ Exchange”? Do you know what that is?

 

Or are you like many of my Democrat friends making $200K salaries with outstanding employer sponsored coverage who are 100% insulated to the realities and shortcomings of the ACA and vote blindly for all things democrat.

 

Who listen when Nancy Pelosi sold this ACA and said there was no time to study the contents?

[bristolboy]

8 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

I really don’t care about this enough to waste time responding to each point.

Some you are correct.

Others you are not.

Yes, I was type-2 diabetic until I lost some weight. My good friend in America is type-1 abd has to wear an insulin pump. He has explained to me about his treatment and the advantages to him of ACA mandated HC through his employer.

Please go talk to Americans who have experience with this because they are having a very different negative experience than what you are reading.

You are correct that HC costs have been rising and outpacing inflation for 20 years before ACA but the most rapid increases are occurring from 2011 until now.

Please try and not be blinded by your partisanship blinders.

And you must have zero understanding of the relationship of corporate interest and US lawmakers if you think they will give up their profit to fashion a working HC model based on these other countries you fail to name.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Talk to some people. You really think that's a valid way to get hard information?

And your contention about an accelerated rise in health costs is false. Where did you get the number? Just by talking to some people?

Year	National Health Spending (Billions)	Percent Growth	Cost Per Person	Event
1960	$27.2	NA	$146	Recession
1961	$29.1	7.1%	$154	Recession ended
1962	$31.8	9.3%	$166	n/a
1963	$34.6	8.6%	$178	n/a
1964	$38.4	11.0%	$194	LBJ started Medicare and Medicaid
1965	$41.9	9.0%	$209	LBJ started Medicare and Medicaid
1966	$46.1	10.1%	$228	Vietnam War
1967	$51.6	11.9%	$253	n/a
1968	$58.4	13.3%	$284	n/a
1969	$65.9	12.9%	$318	n/a
1970	$74.6	13.1%	$355	Recession
1971	$82.7	11.0%	$389	Wage-price controls
1972	$92.7	12.0%	$431	Stagflation
1973	$102.8	11.0%	$474	Gold standard ended. HMO Act
1974	$116.5	13.4%	$534	ERISA / Wage-price controls ended
1975	$133.3	14.4%	$605	Inflation at 6.9%
1976	$152.7	14.6%	$688	Inflation at 4.9%
1977	$173.9	13.8%	$777	Inflation at 6.7%
1978	$195.3	12.4%	$865	Inflation at 9%
1979	$221.5	13.4%	$971	Inflation at 13.3%
1980	$255.3	15.3%	$1,108	Inflation at 12.5%
1981	$296.2	16.0%	$1,273	Fed raised rates
1982	$334.0	12.8%	$1,422	Recession ended
1983	$367.8	10.1%	$1,550	Tax hike and higher defense spending
1984	$405.0	10.1%	$1,692	Tax hike and higher defense spending
1985	$442.9	9.4%	$1,833	n/a
1986	$474.7	7.2%	$1,947	Tax cut
1987	$516.5	8.8%	$2,099	Black Monday
1988	$579.3	12.2%	$2,332	Fed raised rate
1989	$644.8	11.3%	$2,571	S&L crisis
1990	$721.4	11.9%	$2,843	Recession. Inflation at 6.1%
1991	$788.1	9.2%	$3,070	Recession
1992	$854.1	8.4%	$3,287	n/a
1993	$916.6	7.3%	$3,487	HMOs
1994	$967.2	5.5%	$3,641	n/a
1995	$1,021.6	5.6%	$3,806	Fed raised rate
1996	$1,074.4	5.2%	$3,964	Welfare reform
1997	$1,135.5	5.7%	$4,147	Balanced Budget Act
1998	$1,202.0	5.8%	$4,345	LTCM crisis
1999	$1,278.3	6.4%	$4,576	BBRA
2000	$1,369.7	7.1%	$4,857	BIPA
2001	$1,486.8	8.5%	$5,220	9/11 attacks
2002	$1,629.2	9.6%	$5,668	War on Terror
2003	$1,768.2	8.5%	$6,098	Medicare Modernization Act
2004	$1,896.3	7.2%	$6,481	n/a
2005	$2,024.2	6.7%	$6,855	Bankruptcy Act
2006	$2,156.5	6.5%	$7,233	n/a
2007	$2,295.7	6.5%	$7,628	Inflation at 4.1%
2008	$2,399.1	4.5%	$7,897	Recession slowed spending.
2009	$ 2,495.4	4.0%	$8,143	n/a
2010	$2,598.8	4.1%	$8,412	ACA signed
2011	$2,689.3	3.5%	$8,644	Debt crisis
2012	$2,797.3	4.0%	$8,924	Fiscal cliff
2013	$2,879.0	2.9%	$9,121	ACA taxes
2014	$3,026.2	5.1%	$9,515	Exchanges opened
2015	$3,200.8	5.8%	$9,994	n/a
2016	$3,337.2	4.3%	$10,348	n/a
2017	$3,492.1	3.9%	$10,739	Drug costs rose just 0.4%.

https://www.thebalance.com/causes-of-rising-healthcare-costs-4064878

Edited March 28, 2019 by bristolboy

[Srikcir]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

Trump says he can produce a better healthcare plan than Obamacare

Two years ago:

'Nobody knew health care could be so complicated' - Trump

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/27/politics/trump-health-care-complicated/index.html

He learned nothing except what's it like being haunted from the grave:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWeayFHsH90

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, Srikcir said:

'Nobody knew health care could be so complicated' - Trump

Perhaps he's been reading the threads on TV about hospital costs for tourists and ex-pats

[mike324]

Obamacare isn't great, its far from yet, but its saving lives. Just look at it this way the majority is paying to save the lives of the low income. But who likes to pay more money right? Nobody.

 

Naturally you will hear more people complain than those who praise it. 

[ShortTimed]

Talk to some people. You really think that's a valid way to get hard information?
And your contention about an accelerated rise in health costs is false. Where did you get the number? Just by talking to some people?

Year	National Health Spending (Billions)	Percent Growth	Cost Per Person	Event
1960	$27.2	NA	$146	Recession
1961	$29.1	7.1%	$154	Recession ended
1962	$31.8	9.3%	$166	n/a
1963	$34.6	8.6%	$178	n/a
1964	$38.4	11.0%	$194	LBJ started Medicare and Medicaid
1965	$41.9	9.0%	$209	LBJ started Medicare and Medicaid
1966	$46.1	10.1%	$228	Vietnam War
1967	$51.6	11.9%	$253	n/a
1968	$58.4	13.3%	$284	n/a
1969	$65.9	12.9%	$318	n/a
1970	$74.6	13.1%	$355	Recession
1971	$82.7	11.0%	$389	Wage-price controls
1972	$92.7	12.0%	$431	Stagflation
1973	$102.8	11.0%	$474	Gold standard ended. HMO Act
1974	$116.5	13.4%	$534	ERISA / Wage-price controls ended
1975	$133.3	14.4%	$605	Inflation at 6.9%
1976	$152.7	14.6%	$688	Inflation at 4.9%
1977	$173.9	13.8%	$777	Inflation at 6.7%
1978	$195.3	12.4%	$865	Inflation at 9%
1979	$221.5	13.4%	$971	Inflation at 13.3%
1980	$255.3	15.3%	$1,108	Inflation at 12.5%
1981	$296.2	16.0%	$1,273	Fed raised rates
1982	$334.0	12.8%	$1,422	Recession ended
1983	$367.8	10.1%	$1,550	Tax hike and higher defense spending
1984	$405.0	10.1%	$1,692	Tax hike and higher defense spending
1985	$442.9	9.4%	$1,833	n/a
1986	$474.7	7.2%	$1,947	Tax cut
1987	$516.5	8.8%	$2,099	Black Monday
1988	$579.3	12.2%	$2,332	Fed raised rate
1989	$644.8	11.3%	$2,571	S&L crisis
1990	$721.4	11.9%	$2,843	Recession. Inflation at 6.1%
1991	$788.1	9.2%	$3,070	Recession
1992	$854.1	8.4%	$3,287	n/a
1993	$916.6	7.3%	$3,487	HMOs
1994	$967.2	5.5%	$3,641	n/a
1995	$1,021.6	5.6%	$3,806	Fed raised rate
1996	$1,074.4	5.2%	$3,964	Welfare reform
1997	$1,135.5	5.7%	$4,147	Balanced Budget Act
1998	$1,202.0	5.8%	$4,345	LTCM crisis
1999	$1,278.3	6.4%	$4,576	BBRA
2000	$1,369.7	7.1%	$4,857	BIPA
2001	$1,486.8	8.5%	$5,220	9/11 attacks
2002	$1,629.2	9.6%	$5,668	War on Terror
2003	$1,768.2	8.5%	$6,098	Medicare Modernization Act
2004	$1,896.3	7.2%	$6,481	n/a
2005	$2,024.2	6.7%	$6,855	Bankruptcy Act
2006	$2,156.5	6.5%	$7,233	n/a
2007	$2,295.7	6.5%	$7,628	Inflation at 4.1%
2008	$2,399.1	4.5%	$7,897	Recession slowed spending.
2009	$ 2,495.4	4.0%	$8,143	n/a
2010	$2,598.8	4.1%	$8,412	ACA signed
2011	$2,689.3	3.5%	$8,644	Debt crisis
2012	$2,797.3	4.0%	$8,924	Fiscal cliff
2013	$2,879.0	2.9%	$9,121	ACA taxes
2014	$3,026.2	5.1%	$9,515	Exchanges opened
2015	$3,200.8	5.8%	$9,994	n/a
2016	$3,337.2	4.3%	$10,348	n/a
2017	$3,492.1	3.9%	$10,739	Drug costs rose just 0.4%.

https://www.thebalance.com/causes-of-rising-healthcare-costs-4064878

I am on an iphone and can’t see columns so can’t decipher what you sent.


as asked are you enrolled in the ACA exchange? Are you American? What is your type of health coverage? Do you have any actual experienced based knowledge ?

[moontang]

9 hours ago, quandow said:

I was just watching a talking head asking a GOP representative of what exact policy Trump would REPLACE the ACA with. There IS no plan for replacement. He kept bumbling about how Republicans would "come up with something over the next few months." The GOP tried 70 times to repeal Obamacare but never offered an alternative. They really don't care about health care, they just want to erase any memory of that brown guy who came from Kenya.

And what exactly does Democrats Abroad of any other Leftie organization say about Medicare vouchers for expats?  Would be a game changer for the better for most Americans living abroad.  The Healthcare Marketplace is a disgrace.

[bristolboy]

11 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

I am on an iphone and can’t see columns so can’t decipher what you sent.


as asked are you enrolled in the ACA exchange? Are you American? What is your type of health coverage? Do you have any actual experienced based knowledge ?

 

 The highest rate of increase under Obamacare was in 2015 when it was 5.8 percent. That's lower than every year in the Bush Administration. In 2017 the rate increase fell to 3.9 percent.

And if I had a standard employer provided policy and didn't like the way that worked, that would be proof of exactly what? And If I loved my policy from the exchangs that would prove exactly what? You believe in judging policy by anecdote?

 

 

[longtom]

Better HC is not possible in America because it is owned & operated by Corporate Interests.

Build the Wall means improve the border security along the Southern border.

Show me a country where such open borders exist with no need for immigration. I can’t think of any Nation that does not have an Immigration Policy with enforcement in place.

I apriciate yor view on HC (not on the wall but that is off topic anyway).

About the corporate influence, of course that's huge, but that's exactly the point. You can try to change that (the 'socialist' democrats), or you can cement it (GOP).

How comes every country in europe has better healthcare at lower costs?



Sent from my crappy device using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, longtom said:

I apriciate yor view on HC (not on the wall but that is off topic anyway).

About the corporate influence, of course that's huge, but that's exactly the point. You can try to change that (the 'socialist' democrats), or you can cement it (GOP).

How comes every country in europe has better healthcare at lower costs?



Sent from my crappy device using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I think a more accurate way to phrase that question would be "How come every nation with a fully developed economy has better healthcare at lower costs.?

There are still some very poor and developing European nations that have pretty dismal health care systems.

[longtom]

I think a more accurate way to phrase that question would be "How come every nation with a fully developed economy has better healthcare at lower costs.?
There are still some very poor and developing European nations that have pretty dismal health care systems.

You are right. [emoji103]

Sent from my crappy device using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[skytrooper70]

13 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

3 monkeys and a gorilla could devise a better healthcare system than Obamacare...his signature Presidential failure...

 

Oh yeah, that's right...

Let's ignore the racist analogy and ask, if it is so easy, why trump/repubs haven't replaced it, yet? They campaigned on it, in 2016, and controlled Congress, for two years. Now, trump says he'll replace ACA, "if" the court finds it is unconstitutional. Really??? Why not stick to the promise and replace it b4 the court has to rule on it? Oh, I forgot, 3 monkeys and a gorilla............guess trump doesn't even measure up to that low bar.

[ShortTimed]

What should we now call a monkey if not a monkey?

 

A liberal will truly find offense in anything.

 

 

[heybruce]

10 hours ago, ShortTimed said:

 

No politician will ever remove Big Pharma, Big hospital groups, Big Insurance and Big Physician groups from the US Paradigm.

They are too powerful.
Far more power than the NRA which has popular support.

Too bad for Americans, Donald does everything better than anyone else and would most certainly do HC better as well if only the country would unite behind him.

One people. One Goal.

Nationalized Healthcare by extending Medicare without the age discrimination.

+1 Australia
 

 

Democrats have proposed it.  It's called "Medicare for all".  Republicans oppose it.

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Democrats have proposed it.  It's called "Medicare for all".  Republicans oppose it.

They've also proposed Medicare for whoever wants it, which is far more politically feasible.

[heybruce]

All Trump ever had to do to replace Obamacare was offer a better plan.  All Republicans ever had to do to replace Obamacare was to offer a better plan.

 

All Trump and Republicans have ever done is try to repeal Obamacare and promise to come up with a better plan afterwards.

 

So far most Americans haven't fallen for that con.

[Redline]

Lie number  ????   6,848 or are we at 10 grand yet ????

[quandow]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

No politician will ever remove Big Pharma, Big hospital groups, Big Insurance and Big Physician groups from the US Paradigm.

It will be done eventually. The current method of sucking the populace dry of their life's blood is not sustainable. We used to refer to it as "cutting a fat hog in the ass." They've become too greedy.

[gamb00ler]

21 hours ago, YetAnother said:

governments do not exist to Require their citizens to buy anything

Hmmmm... are your forgetting about liability insurance for autos?

[ThaiBunny]

3 hours ago, quandow said:

It will be done eventually. 

In your lifetime?

[cdnvic]

Insults and name calling are a good way to get your whole post deleted. Don't waste your time like that.

[ShortTimed]

Democrats have proposed it.  It's called "Medicare for all".  Republicans oppose it.

 

But Democrats have not proposed how to pay for it. A nasty habit that always concerns Republicans because they work hard for their money.

 

Too bad the Democrats did not suggest Medicare for All instead of spending all that time on writing the ACA.

 

But then Medicare for All would have removed the stranglehold that Fat Cat HC Industry has on Americans and the ACA assured their continued stranglehold would actually increase.

 

You certainly realize that Medicare places strict cost ceilings on pricing that hospitals, healthcare networks and physicians are required to follow?

 

Do you have any first hand experience with Medicare? Or with the participation in the US HC system? Thanks

[lannarebirth]

55 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

But Democrats have not proposed how to pay for it. A nasty habit that always concerns Republicans because they work hard for their money.

 

Too bad the Democrats did not suggest Medicare for All instead of spending all that time on writing the ACA.

 

But then Medicare for All would have removed the stranglehold that Fat Cat HC Industry has on Americans and the ACA assured their continued stranglehold would actually increase.

 

You certainly realize that Medicare places strict cost ceilings on pricing that hospitals, healthcare networks and physicians are required to follow?

 

Do you have any first hand experience with Medicare? Or with the participation in the US HC system? Thanks

 

Medicare for all wouldn't remove the grip the private sector has on the public healthcare budget. Medicare is a boon for the private sector. What's really needed is to put all those companies out of business. There will be around the clock advertising on television for all manner of healthcare devices and to "see your doctor" cuz ya might have Shingles or Hep C or Fibromyalgia. Gotta take all that shit off the air. The ambulance chasers too.

[Tug]

Personally I would like to get something for my taxes but sadly the medical industry has a stranglehold over our government so at best whatever does get done will be a crappy compromise kinda like the aca

[brokenbone]

obamacare isnt perfect, but its his legacy

to have started the process for functional public healthcare.

take away the middleman/lawyers meddling schemes/profit/lawsuit cases and you are on track

[ShortTimed]

 
Medicare for all wouldn't remove the grip the private sector has on the public healthcare budget. Medicare is a boon for the private sector. What's really needed is to put all those companies out of business. There will be around the clock advertising on television for all manner of healthcare devices and to "see your doctor" cuz ya might have Shingles or Hep C or Fibromyalgia. Gotta take all that shit off the air. The ambulance chasers too.

Very good argument.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts reported and removed.  

 

[Credo]

The current administration is planning cuts to Medicare and Medicaid.   There is no plan for healthcare by the Republican party.   It caught the Republican leadership by surprise.   

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/surprise-obamacare-move-puts-gop-in-bind/ar-BBVhFDm?ocid=ob-fb-enus-280&fbclid=IwAR2t0Y4RADkREYFPcWVg_Vq6s26lwVFSFu3saAOY2o1Esf9jkPqGvVPYTr4

[ShortTimed]

The current administration is planning cuts to Medicare and Medicaid.   There is no plan for healthcare by the Republican party.   It caught the Republican leadership by surprise.   
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/surprise-obamacare-move-puts-gop-in-bind/ar-BBVhFDm?ocid=ob-fb-enus-280&fbclid=IwAR2t0Y4RADkREYFPcWVg_Vq6s26lwVFSFu3saAOY2o1Esf9jkPqGvVPYTr4

There has been zero leadership. Its so embarrassing they had no plan beyond making the slogan to end Obamacare.

America was a once great nation.

My condolences for your loss.