Some in Mueller's team see report as more damaging to Trump than Barr summary: New York Times

[metisdead]

Some off topic deflection/baiting posts and replies have been removed. 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, elmrfudd said:

actually, no that was never established. Russia has been interfering in elections for decades, they did not make Hillary lose or Trump win.

 

 

get over it, but it seems you can't

It was established. A meeting took place in trump tower between trump campaign and Russians, based on the promise the Russians had dirt on Hillary.

[bristolboy]

3 hours ago, riclag said:

Adm Rodgers was very helpful in the early stages of a very naive Trump admin

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-team-surveillance-obama-236410

Americans would understand the difference between the Trump campaign and the Trump administration. Do you?

[riclag]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

Americans would understand the difference between the Trump campaign and the Trump administration. Do you?

He was there for both

 

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, riclag said:

 

 

    The same spying Mr, Trump talked about in 2017!

 The President of the United States ,the man who has access to it all! Many American's want    Mr. Barr to  see it  all the way through ,look into Spying! The IG report will give better credence as to the need for a Special Prosecutor!(don't want to give the impression that Mr. Barr has a conflict of interest)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/special_prosecutor

 

To think of what some powerful people can do when they hate

 

 

Yes, the same spying charges that were supported by no evidence in 2017 still have no evidence in 2019.

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, Kelsall said:

 

Trump: Obama spied on me

Barr: Obama spied on him

Comey: We spied on him

Rosenstein: I signed the paperwork to spy on him

Clapper: We spied on him

Obama: We spied on him to protect him

 

MSM: No, Obama didn't spy on Trump, CONSPIRACY THEORY! BTW he's a Russian agent.

Mueller: Nope.

Provide links to support the BS above.  Can't do it, can you?

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, elmrfudd said:

actually, no that was never established. Russia has been interfering in elections for decades, they did not make Hillary lose or Trump win.

 

 

get over it, but it seems you can't

What has not been established?  That Russia was meddling in our election?  Your second sentence states that's true. 

 

That high ranking people in the Trump campaign had illegal dealings with them?  The charges, guilty pleas and convictions prove that. 

 

That " Sufficient evidence for prosecution of an illegal conspiracy between the campaign and Russia was not found."  I thought that was what Trump and his supporters were so excited about.

 

What has not been established is that Russian meddling did not affect the outcome.  That is unprovable.  Get over it.

[heybruce]

6 hours ago, elmrfudd said:

what verified evidence precisely?

Let's start with something dear to the heart of posters on this topic.  What verified evidence has been reported that shows the Trump campaign was spied upon?

 

Or, to get back to your previous post, what verified evidence supports your claim that the Clinton's run a criminal enterprise?

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, elmrfudd said:

no, there was no illegal dealings with russians.

 

names, dates, illegalities. spell it all out with verifiable evidence. who what when and corroborated factual evidence.

Really?  Why did General Flynn plead guilty of lying about illegal contacts with the Russian ambassador?  Why did George Papadopoulos plead guilty about lying to the FBI in his attempts to establish contacts with Russians?  Why is Paul Manafort serving time for illegal business dealings with Ukrainians linked to the Russian government?   https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/08/21/us/mueller-trump-charges.html

 

There are also charges against Russian nationals that will never be prosecuted, but will limit the criminal activities of those charged.

 

However if you want all of the details, you need to ask for the full Mueller report.

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, riclag said:

Adm Rodgers was very helpful in the early stages of a very naive Trump admin

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-team-surveillance-obama-236410

Your link explains how the conversations of Americans can be recorded if they are talking to hostile foreigners under surveillance by intelligence agencies.  This is not the same as spying on the Americans, this is Americans keeping bad company. 

 

Is that why you posted the link?

[riclag]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Your link explains how the conversations of Americans can be recorded if they are talking to hostile foreigners under surveillance by intelligence agencies.  This is not the same as spying on the Americans, this is Americans keeping bad company. 

 

Is that why you posted the link?

The link was to show that Adm. Rodgers(NSA) exposed  to Mr. Trump that his building was under surveillance,being spied on,bugged and other surveillance through those suspected times.  How did Barr say it to Sen Schatz, "unauthorized surveillance, is that more appropriate in your mind"! He wants to examine all of it.

[riclag]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Yes, the same spying charges that were supported by no evidence in 2017 still have no evidence in 2019.

Give it time ! The key obstacle (mueller  probe ) has just been concluded. Now according to Mr. Barr and Senator Graham they are going to proceed to pull together  all the investigations and determine what steps to take

[heybruce]

33 minutes ago, riclag said:

The link was to show that Adm. Rodgers(NSA) exposed  to Mr. Trump that his building was under surveillance,being spied on,bugged and other surveillance through those suspected times.  How did Barr say it to Sen Schatz, "unauthorized surveillance, is that more appropriate in your mind"! He wants to examine all of it.

In addition to no evidence of spying, Barr also had no evidence of unauthorized surveillance.

5 minutes ago, riclag said:

Give it time ! The key obstacle (mueller  probe ) has just been concluded. Now according to Mr. Barr and Senator Graham they are going to proceed to pull together  all the investigations and determine what steps to take

How was the Mueller probe an obstacle to investigating the spying speculation? 

 

Shouldn't those who believe Trump, the habitual liar, when he claims there is spying "Give it time" and wait for evidence of spying?

[riclag]

54 minutes ago, heybruce said:

In addition to no evidence of spying, Barr also had no evidence of unauthorized surveillance.

How was the Mueller probe an obstacle to investigating the spying speculation? 

 

Shouldn't those who believe Trump, the habitual liar, when he claims there is spying "Give it time" and wait for evidence of spying?

Seems I have a choice, believing you or the POTUS, I'll stick with the guy who has access to it all, thanks 

[heybruce]

35 minutes ago, riclag said:

Seems I have a choice, believing you or the POTUS, I'll stick with the guy who has access to it all, thanks 

Given his track record, that is a very poor choice.

[Tug]

47 minutes ago, riclag said:

Seems I have a choice, believing you or the POTUS, I'll stick with the guy who has access to it all, thanks 

You need to use the information Donald prefers Fox News buzz feed and Putin over the cia fbi ect ect the dud is a corrupt clown 

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, riclag said:

Seems I have a choice, believing you or the POTUS, I'll stick with the guy who has access to it all, thanks 

There must be some idea that you hold so near and dear that allows you to overlook the long and winding trail of deceit by your orange painted hero.  The first step to wellness is to look deep inside and identify what it is.

 

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Given his track record, that is a very poor choice.

For riclag's benefit here is a link to a list of the most relevant Trump untruths: https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/

[elmrfudd]

10 hours ago, stevenl said:

It was established. A meeting took place in trump tower between trump campaign and Russians, based on the promise the Russians had dirt on Hillary.

again, nothing illegal in anyway. What it does look like is an attempted setup, time will tell. 

 

As I asked before, give details of illegal activity. precise details, not opinions, precise illegalities that you are claiming.

[elmrfudd]

6 hours ago, heybruce said:

What has not been established?  That Russia was meddling in our election?  Your second sentence states that's true. 

 

That high ranking people in the Trump campaign had illegal dealings with them?  The charges, guilty pleas and convictions prove that. 

 

That " Sufficient evidence for prosecution of an illegal conspiracy between the campaign and Russia was not found."  I thought that was what Trump and his supporters were so excited about.

 

What has not been established is that Russian meddling did not affect the outcome.  That is unprovable.  Get over it.

actually Russian meddling did not affect the election results, you can't provide any evidence of that, and yet you can't let it go.

 

get over it.

[Tug]

Elmer you are nonsense but good for a chuckle are you trying out for a job with trump lol

[heybruce]

56 minutes ago, elmrfudd said:

actually Russian meddling did not affect the election results, you can't provide any evidence of that, and yet you can't let it go.

 

get over it.

I maintain that it may have affected the outcome.  You maintain that it absolutely didn't.

 

You can not prove that it did not affect the outcome.  A firm belief one way or the other about something that is unprovable is a sign someone is delusional. 

[elmrfudd]

6 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I was replying to your claim " no, there was no illegal dealings with russians"  The crimes I listed were illegal activities directly with Russian or Russian agents. 

 

The FBI agents who interviewed Flynn believed he wasn't lying, yet he plead guilty to lying to the FBI.  Do you think it's not lying if Flynn did it really convincingly?  If you do, you are really delusional.

you have to do better than this lame deflection Bruce.

the hoax is exposed. get ready to deal with it when the details are released.

[Kelsall]

It's all over but the crying, and there's going to be plenty of that.  They indicted Obama's former attorney yesterday as a result of the Mueller probe.  Who do you think he's going to cough up when they squeeze him?   Comey and Ted Lieu admit the spying was "authorized surveillance" which means they admit it was a coup, not a counter intel operation.  They never told Trump he was under surveillance and was a target of Russia which is what they would have done if it had been a counter intel operation.  All this is on the public record now and there is no escaping it.  The haters need to get ready to deal with it as elmerfudd says.  There's a new sheriff in town, William Barr, and he says, "If you cross the line, your nuts are mine." (Apologies to the movie Starsky and Hutch)

[heybruce]

8 minutes ago, elmrfudd said:

you have to do better than this lame deflection Bruce.

the hoax is exposed. get ready to deal with it when the details are released.

In other words, my post was accurate and you can't refute it.

 

I eagerly await the results of investigating the investigators.  Although I'm still waiting for Trump to identify the millions of illegal votes for Hillary.  We'll probably get your proof of spying after the illegal voters are identified.

[heybruce]

2 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

It's all over but the crying, and there's going to be plenty of that.  They indicted Obama's former attorney yesterday as a result of the Mueller probe.  Who do you think he's going to cough up when they squeeze him?   Comey and Ted Lieu admit the spying was "authorized surveillance" which means they admit it was a coup, not a counter intel operation.  They never told Trump he was under surveillance and was a target of Russia which is what they would have done if it had been a counter intel operation.  All this is on the public record now and there is no escaping it.  The haters need to get ready to deal with it as elmerfudd says.  There's a new sheriff in town, William Barr, and he says, "If you cross the line, your nuts are mine." (Apologies to the movie Starsky and Hutch)

Authorized surveillance is legal, not a coup.  Obama's former attorney has been charged with things completely unrelated to Obama.  Covert investigations are kept covert.  The public record shows nothing illegal or improper was done.

[elmrfudd]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

In other words, my post was accurate and you can't refute it.

 

I eagerly await the results of investigating the investigators.  Although I'm still waiting for Trump to identify the millions of illegal votes for Hillary.  We'll probably get your proof of spying after the illegal voters are identified.

you can believe anything to feed the narrative bruce, please keep the faith as long as you can.

[heybruce]

26 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I maintain that it may have affected the outcome.  You maintain that it absolutely didn't.

 

You can not prove that it did not affect the outcome.  A firm belief one way or the other about something that is unprovable is a sign someone is delusional. 

 

2 minutes ago, elmrfudd said:

you need to believe this tripe to feed your narrative, that much is clear, and is truly delusional

No rational person would argue with my statement.  The fact that you do argue with it tells us much about you.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, elmrfudd said:

again, nothing illegal in anyway. What it does look like is an attempted setup, time will tell. 

 

As I asked before, give details of illegal activity. precise details, not opinions, precise illegalities that you are claiming.

No, you did not ask that before. My answer was to your statement: 'there were no contacts', so you were lying.

 

Attempted setup, get real. They thought to score cheaply.

[elmrfudd]

Just now, stevenl said:

No, you did not ask that before. My answer was to your statement: 'there were no contacts', so you were lying.

 

Attempted setup, get real. They thought to score cheaply.

you can do better than this, can't you?

 

can you show that this "meeting" was initiated by anyone in the Trump org?

 

[metisdead]

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