A Little Advice Needed.

[billaaa777]

I am looking forward to reading your comments on this, what would you do?

I have renovated a few condos. One of my sub-contractors has two painters that work for him. They have worked for me approximately a year on and off. For the most part they show up to work everyday and do a decent job. One of them is very quite and the other one jokes around quite a bit. I would consider them nice young men. Both are around 22 to 25 years old. I have never seen either of them exhibit any anger or be disrespectful to anybody.

Supposedly, the day they got paid they got very drunk. An American (I am American) was riding his motorbike with a Thai girl on it and according to the police report they jumped on him and hit him and tried to steal the motorbike. In all the time I have been around them have I ever witnessed any behavior out of them that I could ever think this was possible. They have been in jail for about a month, with a 200,000 bail. Which of course they can not pay.

The contractor has asked me to talk to the victim. Which I am glad to do. I would like to hear what he has to say about what happened. I would like to tell them I have known the kids for quite a while and I would of never of thought this was possible. I am not really sure how to start the conversation.

How would you start the conversation?

Would you even bother to do it?

Would you try to reach some type of settlement with the gentleman?

[OlRedEyes]

I'd say no matter how nice you are, 'jumping' on someone and trying to steal their motorbike, drunk or not, deserves punishment.

[jakesideas]

I read about this case in the newspaper. It is really interesting to hear another side of the story so thanks for posting.

I think you can say exactly what you said here and be very open-minded because you are not the victim and you don't know what he suffered and how he feels. I don't think I would ask for his forgiveness- let it come in time.

Maybe you could ask him to help you possibly rehabilitate these young men knowing that they will be out of jail soon and will possibly into the same trouble again if nothing is done.

Good luck

[Ulysses G.]

OlRedEyes Today, 2007-03-04 09:50:42 Post #2

I'd say no matter how nice you are, 'jumping' on someone and trying to steal their motorbike, drunk or not, deserves punishment.

I must agree.

Edited March 4, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[lannarebirth]

I am looking forward to reading your comments on this, what would you do?

I have renovated a few condos. One of my sub-contractors has two painters that work for him. They have worked for me approximately a year on and off. For the most part they show up to work everyday and do a decent job. One of them is very quite and the other one jokes around quite a bit. I would consider them nice young men. Both are around 22 to 25 years old. I have never seen either of them exhibit any anger or be disrespectful to anybody.

Supposedly, the day they got paid they got very drunk. An American (I am American) was riding his motorbike with a Thai girl on it and according to the police report they jumped on him and hit him and tried to steal the motorbike. In all the time I have been around them have I ever witnessed any behavior out of them that I could ever think this was possible. They have been in jail for about a month, with a 200,000 bail. Which of course they can not pay.

The contractor has asked me to talk to the victim. Which I am glad to do. I would like to hear what he has to say about what happened. I would like to tell them I have known the kids for quite a while and I would of never of thought this was possible. I am not really sure how to start the conversation.

How would you start the conversation?

Would you even bother to do it?

Would you try to reach some type of settlement with the gentleman?

This is pretty normal stuff in Thailand, ie: using third parties as intermediaries to resolve disputes. If I were in your position I'd want to know if the boys acknowledge what they have done wrong, are contrite, and are prepared to make amends in some way to their victim. Otherwise, they're just looking to you to be the "fixer" or influential person that can make problems go away. If that happens, no reason to believe that problems won't happen again in future as they now have a "patron" to smooth their way.

[kmart]

I am looking forward to reading your comments on this, what would you do?

I have renovated a few condos. One of my sub-contractors has two painters that work for him. They have worked for me approximately a year on and off. For the most part they show up to work everyday and do a decent job. One of them is very quite and the other one jokes around quite a bit. I would consider them nice young men. Both are around 22 to 25 years old. I have never seen either of them exhibit any anger or be disrespectful to anybody.

Supposedly, the day they got paid they got very drunk. An American (I am American) was riding his motorbike with a Thai girl on it and according to the police report they jumped on him and hit him and tried to steal the motorbike. In all the time I have been around them have I ever witnessed any behavior out of them that I could ever think this was possible. They have been in jail for about a month, with a 200,000 bail. Which of course they can not pay.

The contractor has asked me to talk to the victim. Which I am glad to do. I would like to hear what he has to say about what happened. I would like to tell them I have known the kids for quite a while and I would of never of thought this was possible. I am not really sure how to start the conversation.

How would you start the conversation?

Would you even bother to do it?

Would you try to reach some type of settlement with the gentleman?

This is pretty normal stuff in Thailand, ie: using third parties as intermediaries to resolve disputes. If I were in your position I'd want to know if the boys acknowledge what they have done wrong, are contrite, and are prepared to make amends in some way to their victim. Otherwise, they're just looking to you to be the "fixer" or influential person that can make problems go away. If that happens, no reason to believe that problems won't happen again in future as they now have a "patron" to smooth their way.

Hoping they don't think of you a similarly "easy mark" as the guy who's bike they tried to steal after mugging him?

How is he by the way? You neglect to say.....?

Hope your painter friends do some good jail time. <deleted> them.

[taxexile]

i mostly agree with lannarebirth.

to intervene on their behalf in order to reach a settlement and reduce their punishment just seems like perpetuating the damaging system here of wrongdoers ( at all levels of society) not having to take full responsibility for their misdeeds , knowing that someone will come to their aid and lessen the consequences of their actions.

a motorcycle thief who is not punished for stealing a motorcycle , may then move on to more serious things.

the guy who shot the russian girls probably started out petty thieving.

Edited March 4, 2007 by taxexile

[Cyberstar]

Obviously, the guys aren't trustworthy. So they didn't succeed in getting the motorcycle? Was the American too strong? What if they had had knives? Would the American have been dead, now?

How many times haven't I read about even very serious crimes (raping, slaughtering several woman e.g.) committed by a guy all friends, neighbors, collegues knew only as a decent guy, who they'd never believe could ever kick even a dog.

[billaaa777]

I'd say no matter how nice you are, 'jumping' on someone and trying to steal their motorbike, drunk or not, deserves punishment.

I don’t disagree with you. This is a violent crime.

How is he by the way?

I don't know. If I have a chance to talk to him I will post how he is.

How many times haven't I read about even very serious crimes (raping, slaughtering several woman e.g.) committed by a guy all friends, neighbors, collegues knew only as a decent guy, who they'd never believe could ever kick even a dog.

That is very true, it is a very good point.

[dgoz]

This is a typical example of how political correctness has gone mad in farangland.

2 Men jump an innocent man and his gf whilst on motorbikes and beat them up and steal their bike,(I'm thinking maybe because he was a Farang, which would make this racially motivated) and you want to do your utmost to set these "poor, misunderstood, really nice boys" free into the community.

You think these Thai men are nice because they smile at you everyday and act so nice to you.

I can only guess what they're saying about you behind your back.

Want to do something constructive with your time? Help out the victim, maybe pay for his medical bills and repair his bike.

[lannarebirth]

I am looking forward to reading your comments on this, what would you do?

The contractor has asked me to talk to the victim. Which I am glad to do. I would like to hear what he has to say about what happened. I would like to tell them I have known the kids for quite a while and I would of never of thought this was possible. I am not really sure how to start the conversation.

How would you start the conversation?

I would have a conversation with the boys before I talked to the victim. If they do not acknowledge what they have done, are not sorry, and are not prepared to atone / recompense the victim, I just don't see the point in going to their aid. I believe anyone can make a mistake, and it is commendable that you would try to help these boys, but don't forget, it's what the victim wants that is most important. This could be an excellent opportunity to break down barriers between cultures and start a dialogue or it could be a reinforcement of "Thai culture" that believes if you talk to someone high enough anything can be swept under the rug. If you go ahead. I'd make sure that the solution for the boys is not any easier than doing the time, but offers them their freedom and hopefully some growth and understanding, and should they fail to carry out what is expected of them, they will wind up back where they are now. Getting rid of the alcohol would be a good start.

[billaaa777]

you want to do your utmost to set these "poor, misunderstood, really nice boys" free into the community

That is so unfair, but it does prove that just because someone has been educated to read that does not necessarily mean that have the intelligence to comprehend what they are reading.

If this happened per the police report this was a violent crime. And they should be punished, if on the other hand it was some kind of disagreement over parking or something like that, maybe something can be worked out. I don’t know all of the facts until I talk the man involved in the incidence, if I ever have a chance too! And I am sure I am not the only one here that would at least talk to somebody for the benefit of a friend. That’s all I am offering to do. Nothing more. They are people that worked for me, that were nice to me, and somebody I would call a “casual friend.”

Help out the victim, maybe pay for his medical bills and repair his bike.

That is an excellent suggestion, and given the opportunity to do so I will.

I would have a conversation with the boys before I talked to the victim.

This second time that recommendation has been mentioned. I agree with it 100%. It would not be very sensitive of me to approach the victim first without talking to the boys and determining if there is any remorse on their part. I will insist on this before I make a phone call.

[soundman]

Similar situation here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=108976

Many commments by forum readers.

Soundman.

[faranggl]

Maybe you should talk to yourself first. If these guys have been working for you and you made sure they got paid even 1/4 of what painters get paid in the USA, they could have easily bought their own motorcycle and had a GF on the back also. Be sure to tell them not to drive drunk and wear a helmet when you give them their new bikes! You're probably doing pretty good flipping condos.

[Boo]

If the thai guys have denied any involvement then it would be worth finding out on what basis they were picked out for this crime & what evidence there was. It could be that they were near the scene & picked out cause they were 2 thai guys pissed up not htat they were actually caught or seen doing anything (happens) If they admitted it then I would say offer to write a character statement for the court but to leave it well alone.

[billaaa777]

Maybe you should talk to yourself first. If these guys have been working for you and you made sure they got paid even 1/4 of what painters get paid in the USA, they could have easily bought their own motorcycle and had a GF on the back also.

Actually, believe this or not, my brother is a painting contractor in the US. He got fired from his job, basically started with nothing and now is a multimillionaire. Are you suggesting my sub-contactors quote their jobs out at five times as much as the other sub-contractors because the salaries here are below what a US painter would get? Or are you just a poor SOB looking for laughs?

You're probably doing pretty good flipping condos.

Your right about that! I am sorry you don’t have any money, but if you PM me I will be glad to give you a loan.

If the thai guys have denied any involvement then it would be worth finding out on what basis they were picked out for this crime & what evidence there was. It could be that they were near the scene & picked out cause they were 2 thai guys pissed up not htat they were actually caught or seen doing anything (happens) If they admitted it then I would say offer to write a character statement for the court but to leave it well alone.

Seriously, I have no idea. I think some of the previous posters advice was very useful. Which was to talk to the kids first before talking to the victim. If I am able to talk to them I will post their comments here. As it stands now, the only way to get the phone number to the victim is to pay off you know who. And they are asking for a lot. These kids have been working for the sub contractor for years and the ball is in their court now. We will see what happens. Any way it works out, it is just not a good situation.

I just can’t believe these guys did something like this, from what I know of them. But, as a previous poster pointed out it happens all the time. It is just sad all the way around, especially for the victim if the police report is correct. What a terrible thing to happen to anybody!

[mr_hippo]

Would you try to reach some type of settlement with the gentleman?

Help out the victim, maybe pay for his medical bills and repair his bike.

That is an excellent suggestion, and given the opportunity to do so I will.

When you left the airport in your home country, there was a receptacle for sharp objects, were there also receptacles for brains and common sense? What do you hope to gain from paying the medical bills, repairs and, possibly, posting bail?

[jbowman1993]

Ask your wife...that's what I do.

[gmac]

I fear that it is the Thai culture to blame in this case. Thais live for today and as such, when they get paid they have money and they spend it without worry about tomorrow. A lot unfortunately spend it on drink and while some people when they get drunk just go to sleep others, including apparently your two painters, become violent. In these circumstances I feel it may be foolish to try to help reduce their sentence as they would probably see it as a weakness and as another poster mentioned, just regard you as someone to be used when they get in trouble with the law.

The suggestions regarding helping the victim sound spot on but I believe the Thai lads need to learn their lesson the hard way.

gmac

Edited March 4, 2007 by gmac

[billaaa777]

When you left the airport in your home country, there was a receptacle for sharp objects, were there also receptacles for brains and common sense? What do you hope to gain from paying the medical bills, repairs and, possibly, posting bail?

Depending on what happened, I am not paying for anything. But, if after talking to him and it does not appear to be as serious as the police report states, then I would offer some kind of alternatives where the sub-contractor pay the funds up front, and then the painters repay the contractors through their labor. Or a reduction in their salary for a period of time. I mentioned this to the contractor and said his painters might just leave since the salary would need to be reduced for a period of time. The reaction I received was neutral, as if he had not thought of that possibility

[billaaa777]

In these circumstances I feel it may be foolish to try to help reduce their sentence as they would probably see it as a weakness and as another poster mentioned, just regard you as someone to be used when they get in trouble with the law.

The suggestions regarding helping the victim sound spot on but I believe the Thai lads need to learn their lesson the hard way.

Your comments could be entirely correct. The problem is, as I mentioned before, I like these two kids. They are reasonably good workers and have always been nice to me. But, more importantly than that, I have never seen anything in their behavior that would lead me to believe they were capable of this. Maybe a fight or something like that, but not to just jump on somebody and start beating them up and try to steal their bike. Of course lots of posters think I am far too sentimental, and I certainly could be. I will post the information I receive after talking to the kids. That’s why I started this thread, to hear other people’s opinions, because I am really not sure of the correct course of action.

[November Rain]

Why exactly have you been asked to be an intermediary in this? Just because you are the same nationality as the victim & you know the alleged perpetrators? If I were you, I'd steer clear. You don't know how you might become embroiled in this.

When I first came to Thailand I was in a taxi that hit a motorbike with three girls on it & severely injured one girl. The taxi driver tried to drive off & it was only me opening the door & trying to get out that stopped her. She tried to flee again when the police arrived. A month later she came to my home, wanting me to appear in court on her behalf (the accident was definitely her fault) & also to pay 10,000 bt to the girl's family as she couldn't afford it. She had half her family with her as back-up. Luckily I was friends with some special forces police & once I told her that I wouldn't help & informed them, I never saw her again.

I realise you are not in the same situation, but a farang being involved in a dispute like this, even as a witness or intermediary can get themselves into situations they'd rather not be in.

[Sophon]

I believe anyone can make a mistake,

True, but if the police report is to be believed this is not what I would call "a mistake".

Sophon