Hi-so Or Lo-so

[jasreeve17]

Poor scenario - When you are starving, your children have died from disease and hunger, you have nowhere to live

You don't see much of that in Thailand, regardless of what the beggars would have you believe.

I was just trying to state a solid principle. Condense the principle up (or cut the ends off if you prefer) and it stays the same, and true for Thailand.

If I was poorer I'd be less happy. Fact. I believe this to be true of the vast majority of people. Because:-

- when I get sick I can't afford the best treatment. I might die.

- when I want to get the bts to work, I can't, I need to get the cheap bus.

- when I want to watch the football on tv with a pizza and a couple of beers, I can't.

- when I want a spacious apartment, I can't, I must have a tiny, dirty and smelly room.

- when I want to go and watch the latest movie, I can't afford it.

- when I want to go and vise my mum, I can't afford it.

Poor is not as good as rich, because you have less happiness. Simple.

[Robski]

I only read the title, what a stupid question.

[cdnvic]

Happy individuals will most likely be happy, rich or poor, and miserable poor people will just be miserable rich people.

Yes poor people would like to have more money, but the rich and poor alike who are happiest have discovered that it's something beyond wealth that makes you happy with life.

[solent01]

Happy individuals will most likely be happy, rich or poor, and miserable poor people will just be miserable rich people.

Yes poor people would like to have more money, but the rich and poor alike who are happiest have discovered that it's something beyond wealth that makes you happy with life.

Wise words vic

[jaiyenyen]

The more people have, the more they want.

Life is for living, i try not to worry about what i can't afford

[Florin]

Life is for living, i try not to worry about what i can't afford

Totally agree! I feel that most material items/experiences should just be split in "can afford"/"can't afford" - enjoy the former and don't worry about the latter

[old wanderer]

When I was a young man, still in the university I started a company and was in the right place at the right time. I became wealthy. When I was 30 my Chinese wife decided that she was in disagreement with my premise:

Golden Rule:

He that has the gold gets to make the rules.

It was the 60's and drugs, sex and rock and roll was everywhere. Naturally I was in the middle of it in SoCal and weathy and in my 20's.

Well not wanting to get killed in divorce court, I set sail on my 73' racing yacht and sailed the Pacific for 3 years. I stopped at all those out of the way South Pacific Islands and sampled what was available.

One of things I took away with me was; those people that had little, but had friends and family were consistently the happiest most carefree people I ever met.

If you have those things, or have a dream, and see the path to the fulfillment of the dream, you will usually be a happy person.

Those people that have no goal, no "real friends' or family will usually be a pain to be around.

By real friends I mean those that are with you what ever your circumstances are. I remember only too well one "friend" that I let live in my home when at the university, shared may drinks and adventures with, flew him to the south pacific to join me on the boat at times. A few years later when I returned broke (which was my intent, as I did not want the divorce attorneys to end up with a new RR), I called him from the Seattle airport (he was an architect living in Seattle at the time). Told him I was at the airport, reply "well if you are in the neighborhood stop by"...my response "Don't have any transportation".. Reply.."Well maybe next time".

Friend?? I think not. I had never been in need with this person before, so my perception was quite different. he was my friend, I was a person he used.

Sometimes I think , the more education you absorb in life (not meaning just school0 , the more prone you are to unhappiness, as you relize a broader spectrum of what is possible. Simple people tend to totally enjoy the simple pleasures in life.

[Neeranam]

If I was poorer I'd be less happy. Fact. I believe this to be true of the vast majority of people. Because:-

- when I get sick I can't afford the best treatment. I might die.

- when I want to get the bts to work, I can't, I need to get the cheap bus.

- when I want to watch the football on tv with a pizza and a couple of beers, I can't.

- when I want a spacious apartment, I can't, I must have a tiny, dirty and smelly room.

- when I want to go and watch the latest movie, I can't afford it.

- when I want to go and vise my mum, I can't afford it.

Poor is not as good as rich, because you have less happiness. Simple

Is it that simple, I don't think so, but just based on my own personal experience.

I believe that if I am rich or poor and meant to die it will happen, regardless of my bank account.

I used to take the cheap buses instead of the BTS. I used to fly to Bkk every week from KK for 6 months. I'd take the local little bus every Friday morning and have a great laugh with the local grannies going to market to sell their veggies. When getting off the plane at Don Muang, I'd take the airbus to the BTS and occasioanlly chat to someone. Once on the BTS things started to get a lot worse. Asking the yyoung office girl opposite where she was going, ther was usually just an embarrassed smile and silence. People don't want to speak on the BTS. People would barge pass me on the elevator. I'd yell out " baw dtong faao" and some of them would laugh and slow down. On the monday I'd arrive back on the little "songtaew" and laugh at the difference between the townies with their money and the locals without all the worry and stress that seems to go with it. I'm going to start leaving my new sports car at home and take the "songtaew", I miss it.

In my experience, staying home with a pizza and beer watching football is boring - go down to the local restaurant, share a bottle of Sang Thip and get some atmosphere.

Pretty cheap to watch the latest movie - 100 baht. If you can't aford it wait and borrow your mates or watch it on cable(250b a month).

I appreciate seeing my Mum a lot more when it is not every couple of months, but you have a point on this one.

[khunandy]

What is happier?

The pampered Hi-So poodle , always clean, taken care of, best food, best home etc etc or the mangy Lo-So soi dog?

The soi dog does what he likes, when he likes. he might get a bit hungry now and again but he is resourceful and doesnt go to pieces when things don't go his way.

The poodle on the other hand I suspect would have an unsavoury temperement, doesnt't like strangers and would be in the habit of complaining a lot if tucker wasn't on the table.

Take a look at the poodle on the leash and then take a look at the soi dog trotting around with his pals looking for a bit of ass. Which one wears the grin.

Of course this only applies to the male of the species but thats a different matter.

[Neeranam]

Did anyone watch that programme on telly - hi-so baan nawk?

[hiromj]

Money buys security, not happiness.

I always thought that if I had money, I would be happy. I used to say "if money can't buy it, then I don't need it". Now that I have money, it does not necessarily mean that I'm always happy. I actually sometimes think back about the days before money, I have some very good memories of that time.

Don't get me wrong though, given the choice I would much rather have money then not.

[jasreeve17]

I cannot believe you romantics on this thread.

All of you are rich people, have many luxuries and can all afford to be happy. All your examples support this - ...I decided to just be happy, so I got on my luxury yacht and visit paradise islands, surprise surprise I was happy and it had nothing to do with money?...

I am glad you are all happy. If you were poorer, you'd be less happy. I hope that doesn't happen to any of you.

But, the original topic about rich Thais V's Poor Thais; it is an absolute fact that rich Thais are very much happier.

"The happy soi dog...." - what are you talking about??? Awful analogy.

The Thai rich love you folks, because their philosophy of being happy with little is fully supported by the folk on this thread. Of course the fact that the people that preach this philosophy don't abide by it might tell you something.

Or, look at the Theravada(ness) in Thailand. The poor folk that flock to the temples are not doing so out of happiness. They want change, they want more.... money! Spend some time at the temples and speak to the people, it's not like Mahayana here. - The poor people want more wealth, which they believe will make them happier. It's true.

I know many poor people that are now rich. All of them are far happier now, I've asked them.

[alexth]

Money buys security, not happiness.

I always thought that if I had money, I would be happy. I used to say "if money can't buy it, then I don't need it". Now that I have money, it does not necessarily mean that I'm always happy. I actually sometimes think back about the days before money, I have some very good memories of that time.

Don't get me wrong though, given the choice I would much rather have money then not.

Perfectly correct. Very wise thinking, I too would rather have the money than don't. I too think back at the times when I was a broke student, Christmases when I couldn't afford to buy my loved ones a present and all kinds of situations with my friends while broke and had to be very innovative to have some fun and you know what, it was real fun. No business-related friendships, no crappy moods and all that s*it.

Just an example I recently experienced...went to a friend's birthday in a club in RCA, they had some promotions where you were getting to stay at a separate sofa and table, with some knockout chicks taking care of eveything, maybe it doesn't sound too bad, but I was feeling like a prisoner behind that red rope, I couldn't even finish my drink as some girl would immediatly come in faster that a rocket to pour your next one, feeled so arse kissed that I almost got an alergy, a very weird and borring evening, I am still going to that club, fortunately that promotion is finished and I get to stay with all the crowd, made plenty of friends and having wayyy much fun.

[cdnvic]

And if you lost your money and your boat sunk in a storm you'd be a lesser person because of it?

Money isn't security, being happy with what you have is. If you get more, lucky you, if not, there's still a cold beer in the fridge.

[jasreeve17]

If I was poorer I'd be less happy. Fact. I believe this to be true of the vast majority of people. Because:-

- when I get sick I can't afford the best treatment. I might die.

- when I want to get the bts to work, I can't, I need to get the cheap bus.

- when I want to watch the football on tv with a pizza and a couple of beers, I can't.

- when I want a spacious apartment, I can't, I must have a tiny, dirty and smelly room.

- when I want to go and watch the latest movie, I can't afford it.

- when I want to go and vise my mum, I can't afford it.

Poor is not as good as rich, because you have less happiness. Simple

Is it that simple, I don't think so, but just based on my own personal experience.

I believe that if I am rich or poor and meant to die it will happen, regardless of my bank account.

Your opinion, but goes against scientific fact.

I used to take the cheap buses instead of the BTS. I used to fly to Bkk every week from KK for 6 months. I'd take the local little bus every Friday morning and have a great laugh with the local grannies going to market to sell their veggies. When getting off the plane at Don Muang, I'd take the airbus to the BTS and occasioanlly chat to someone. Once on the BTS things started to get a lot worse. Asking the yyoung office girl opposite where she was going, ther was usually just an embarrassed smile and silence. People don't want to speak on the BTS. People would barge pass me on the elevator. I'd yell out " baw dtong faao" and some of them would laugh and slow down. On the monday I'd arrive back on the little "songtaew" and laugh at the difference between the townies with their money and the locals without all the worry and stress that seems to go with it. I'm going to start leaving my new sports car at home and take the "songtaew", I miss it.

Spend an hour on the buses today and fill your lungs with pollution, it's not a happy experience - Thais hate it! The bts is far healthier.

Your notion of only rich people have stress is ridiculous.

In my experience, staying home with a pizza and beer watching football is boring - go down to the local restaurant, share a bottle of Sang Thip and get some atmosphere.

Maybe, but poor people can't do either.

I said watching football with a pizza makes me happy, if I had less money I wouldn't be able to, thus I'd be less happy.

An interesting point about the Thai whiskey though, and you are correct - poor Thais drink whiskey to help them get happy. Take intoxicants to drift away from their unhappy life, to a happier place. Sad.

Pretty cheap to watch the latest movie - 100 baht. If you can't aford it wait and borrow your mates or watch it on cable(250b a month).

If I was poorer, I wouldn't have a TV (like the missus's parents didn't). Many people don't you know, why do you think they watch the tv's in the streeet?

I appreciate seeing my Mum a lot more when it is not every couple of months, but you have a point on this one.

If I had less money then I wouldn't have been able to see my mother in the last ten years - flights to Europe are not cheap.

It is this simple. We are rich enough to be quite happy. Many Thais (vast majority on the planet) are not, do not presume that they are happy little soi dogs, free.....

[alexth]

I cannot believe you romantics on this thread.

All of you are rich people, have many luxuries and can all afford to be happy. All your examples support this - ...I decided to just be happy, so I got on my luxury yacht and visit paradise islands, surprise surprise I was happy and it had nothing to do with money?...

I am glad you are all happy. If you were poorer, you'd be less happy. I hope that doesn't happen to any of you.

But, the original topic about rich Thais V's Poor Thais; it is an absolute fact that rich Thais are very much happier.

"The happy soi dog...." - what are you talking about??? Awful analogy.

The Thai rich love you folks, because their philosophy of being happy with little is fully supported by the folk on this thread. Of course the fact that the people that preach this philosophy don't abide by it might tell you something.

Or, look at the Theravada(ness) in Thailand. The poor folk that flock to the temples are not doing so out of happiness. They want change, they want more.... money! Spend some time at the temples and speak to the people, it's not like Mahayana here. - The poor people want more wealth, which they believe will make them happier. It's true.

I know many poor people that are now rich. All of them are far happier now, I've asked them.

How do you know I'm rich? I'm a student here, attending to a 2nd university and living off a small business I have in Romania that I have by hard work in Czech Republic after I finished the first university. In a nutshell, I don't have a villa, I don't have a yacht, I haven't even bought my own house here and living in a decent condo with a decent rent. No rich guy here, but maybe one day

And if you lost your money and your boat sunk in a storm you'd be a lesser person because of it?

Money isn't security, being happy with what you have is. If you get more, lucky you, if not, there's still a cold beer in the fridge.

"Money isn't security," no, it isn't, is financial security )

[jasreeve17]

I cannot believe you romantics on this thread.

All of you are rich people, have many luxuries and can all afford to be happy. All your examples support this - ...I decided to just be happy, so I got on my luxury yacht and visit paradise islands, surprise surprise I was happy and it had nothing to do with money?...

I am glad you are all happy. If you were poorer, you'd be less happy. I hope that doesn't happen to any of you.

But, the original topic about rich Thais V's Poor Thais; it is an absolute fact that rich Thais are very much happier.

"The happy soi dog...." - what are you talking about??? Awful analogy.

The Thai rich love you folks, because their philosophy of being happy with little is fully supported by the folk on this thread. Of course the fact that the people that preach this philosophy don't abide by it might tell you something.

Or, look at the Theravada(ness) in Thailand. The poor folk that flock to the temples are not doing so out of happiness. They want change, they want more.... money! Spend some time at the temples and speak to the people, it's not like Mahayana here. - The poor people want more wealth, which they believe will make them happier. It's true.

I know many poor people that are now rich. All of them are far happier now, I've asked them.

How do you know I'm rich? I'm a student here, attending to a 2nd university and living off a small business I have in Romania that I have by hard work in Czech Republic after I finished the first university. In a nutshell, I don't have a villa, I don't have a yacht, I haven't even bought my own house here and living in a decent condo with a decent rent. No rich guy here, but maybe one day

And if you lost your money and your boat sunk in a storm you'd be a lesser person because of it?

Money isn't security, being happy with what you have is. If you get more, lucky you, if not, there's still a cold beer in the fridge.

"Money isn't security," no, it isn't, is financial security )

Alex, you are upwardly mobile romantic, and good luck to you.

Remeber:-

1) you are very much better off than the vast majority of Thais. You have done well for yourself; travelled, education, new experiences. You should be happy. But remember 95% of Thais will never achieve any of these things, or the associated happiness. Money inhibits them.

2) I don't need to tell you about your homeland. I still have many friends there that are awfully poor and often very unhappy because of it. I remember visiting a friend in a small village in Arges. She was sobbing due to her missery, due to her poverty. Looking around her home I could understand her misery (to some extent). - Money inhibited her happiness.

[alexth]

POINT I have done well for myself, nobody just handed me the cash and told me to go live my life, I worked hard since I was 18 for everything I currently have and I'm still not rich. I come from a good family, but I can only thank my father for not helping me, I had to learn everything the hard way and I thank him for that, romantism is not my strong part, trust me, romantism gets you way far away of living a decent life in Romania, the world we currently live in is a jungle, no matter the shape or colours and I've only learned one thing, if you want something, go for it, even if it seems impossible, just fight for it in a decent and legal way and you'll have it. Many romanians are still trying to get past the communist thinking where eveything was already planned for you, the govt. would give you a decent place to stay almost for free, a job and a starting plan, most of the romanians found themselfs lost in the late "capitalism" wich is only beggining now along with the integration in the EU after 17 years.

Being poor and miserable is something you choose when giving up too early. I know orphans making millions now, I have a very rich friend who still can't get icecream as it only remembers her about the times she was looking at other kids and not affording to buy one, the ideea is that if you want to be rich, you'll have to go for it.

Edited March 5, 2007 by alexth

[Heng]

Money buys security, not happiness.

It also can buy freedom (from illness -contrary to another poster, not every single illness is 'time to die' terminal), malnourishment, bills, mortgages, etc.). Try being happy without freedom and security.

[soundman]

POINT I have done well for myself, nobody just handed me the cash and told me to go live my life, I worked hard since I was 18 for everything I currently have and I'm still not rich. I come from a good family, but I can only thank my father for not helping me, I had to learn everything the hard way and I thank him for that, romantism is not my strong part, trust me, romantism gets you way far away of living a decent life in Romania, the world we currently live in is a jungle, no matter the shape or colours and I've only learned one thing, if you want something, go for it, even if it seems impossible, just fight for it in a decent and legal way and you'll have it. Many romanians are still trying to get past the communist thinking where eveything was already planned for you, the govt. would give you a decent place to stay almost for free, a job and a starting plan, most of the romanians found themselfs lost in the late "capitalism" wich is only beggining now along with the integration in the EU after 17 years.

Being poor and miserable is something you choose when giving up too early. I know orphans making millions now, I have a very rich friend who still can't get icecream as it only remembers her about the times she was looking at other kids and not affording to buy one, the ideea is that if you want to be rich, you'll have to go for it.

Could not agree more with what you have said.

My background is very similar. Very poor fifteen years ago, well off now.

My only advice to add to "wanting something - go for it" is

* Don't be afraid to make mistakes & therefore decisions.

* Learn from the aforementioned mistakes.

* Work hard, ###### hard.

* Work smart whenever the opportunity arises.

* Do your figures, keep a fingure on the pulse of what you do. Learn to trust your gut insticts.

I personally don't think many people living on the bread line could possibly be happy unless they are from the very small majority who are content seeking en-lightenment.

Gotta have toys.

Soundman.

[khunandy]

I cannot believe you romantics on this thread.

All of you are rich people, have many luxuries and can all afford to be happy. All your examples support this - ...I decided to just be happy, so I got on my luxury yacht and visit paradise islands, surprise surprise I was happy and it had nothing to do with money?...

I am glad you are all happy. If you were poorer, you'd be less happy. I hope that doesn't happen to any of you.

But, the original topic about rich Thais V's Poor Thais; it is an absolute fact that rich Thais are very much happier.

"The happy soi dog...." - what are you talking about??? Awful analogy.

The Thai rich love you folks, because their philosophy of being happy with little is fully supported by the folk on this thread. Of course the fact that the people that preach this philosophy don't abide by it might tell you something.

Or, look at the Theravada(ness) in Thailand. The poor folk that flock to the temples are not doing so out of happiness. They want change, they want more.... money! Spend some time at the temples and speak to the people, it's not like Mahayana here. - The poor people want more wealth, which they believe will make them happier. It's true.

I know many poor people that are now rich. All of them are far happier now, I've asked them.

Hey, I am the Soi dog..no hang on a minute I can't be because I have money and I am extremely happy, happier than any person I know with less money. C'mon be a little deeper than that. I have plenty of money and not many days go past where I don't wish for more or worry about losing what I have, I would be very surprised if thais were any different.

It hasn't always been this way of course and it may not stay this way but I have been happy in both rich and poor times. I was the unhappiest when I lost my health for a while.

To suggest that the temples are full of unhappy Thais praying for more money, and lots of it, is ridiculous.

There are many poor, happy people in this world whose main concern is family and health of the family. Maybe I know a better class of poor people.

As far as I can see the money=happiness equation is bullsh*t , there is never enough money if this is your philosophy and it always takes more money to make you happier.

Now money=security is a different matter and security=happiness is something I can understand but the feeling of being secure comes in many forms. Financial, emotional, vocational not just reliant on how fat your bank balance is.

I only know a few Hi-So Thais and have found them to be as pleasant as other Thais of lower income except they just didn't seem to be as happy in spirit, maybe a little too concerned about appearances to let their hair down.

Anyway, all I can say is that I have a better time with Lo-So Thais and it has nothing to do with having money or not having money.

[teacup]

What's with the extremes, and how poor are we talking about here hmm?

Well I used to be a soi dog, let’s say…been there, done that, and didn’t like it, and I doubt it very much that I could be “a happy soi dog”…na not me!

I can only say from my life experiences, you choose your own happiness and the inner-self happiness is more important than the shadow/temp happiness bought by money. But having $$ is always and still nice!!, and you can do so much good with money also because I can use that money to make my family happy or at least spread the wealth or help other people with it. Life JUST shouldn't be about your wants or your feelings only. It should ALSO be about what you leave in the world...and what you can atleast try to do to make it a better place.

[pete_r]

Poor people have to rely on others to help them out in times of need. So they have to be friendly with everyone, smile, give the impression of happiness, because humans tend to help people with a happy personality more easily. To caricature, to be happy is part of the "job" of being poor.

Rich people have their bank account to fall back on, so they don't need to pretend to be friendly with their fellow humans, when they are not in the mood.

The above is a generalization. I've also met people with genuinely happy personalities whatever their position on the financial scale.

[wolfmanjack]

I have not expererienced be as poor as HernyB from Pakistand described. I doubt few Americans have or do. Thanks to taxes and a welfare program.... But I have been on the brink of going broke. I was right out of college, around 20K USD in debt. (credit cards and school loans)

I remember those days without fondness. The wealthy have a choice, to be happy or to be sad. The poor do not have a choice. I would rather be wealthy thank you very much. At this very point, I have a good bit saved up, and I do not worry about money. I ceased worrying about money since I was around 31 years old. Am I happier than when I was on the verge of being broke? Well, I worry less...

the welfare system in the USA does not help the poor white people that are really trying to make it. I know. I was one of them. My father broke his neck and could not work. My mother could not even get food stamps. They told her she would have to divorce my father to get any aid at all. No help from the red cross either.

The welfare system is a gravy train for those that want to play the system though. Many poor white people in the USA that do not get aid. Some families living in cardboard boxes.

[Acquiesce]

I remember the American lady who said "I've been rich

and I've been poor and let me tell ya - rich is better".

Or the odious young tykes making megabucks in the

financial markets who would say "happiness can't buy

you money".

John Lennon once said, 'Love is all you need', but he also said, 'I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob, g'goo goo g'joob', so i'm not realy sure what to believe.

[orchis]

Saying that the poor are happier is a privilege of the rich.

Edited March 5, 2007 by orchis

[undercover]

Don't get me wrong though, given the choice I would much rather have money then not.

......................................

That statement says it all. my farther became very rich in the mid 80s, it changed his personality, gone was his happy go lucky attitude, in was Time is money mate, I havent got time for that now, Tell him to ring back I can't speak to him now !

[Macx]

Ugh...

the war of Hi-so and Lo-so

ugly

I prefer So-so

[jing jing]

Poor people have to rely on others to help them out in times of need. So they have to be friendly with everyone, smile, give the impression of happiness, because humans tend to help people with a happy personality more easily. To caricature, to be happy is part of the "job" of being poor.

Rich people have their bank account to fall back on, so they don't need to pretend to be friendly with their fellow humans, when they are not in the mood.

The above is a generalization. I've also met people with genuinely happy personalities whatever their position on the financial scale.

A generalization maybe, but generally oh-so-true. That's where the expression "<deleted> you money" comes from -- having so much money you can say <deleted> you to all and sundry rather than having to play the game and suck up to your boss or other people whom you depend upon for your livelihood.

I do know some very rich folks who have an obsessive personality and never seem happy, are always in therapy, and find lots of things to worry about. I also know some very rich folks who seem not to have a care in the world, but those types are the exception rather than the rule.

I do believe that to a certain extent ignorance is bliss -- if you ever spend time in a Thai village deep upcountry, I mean way baannork, you will notice that it is not unusual to meet people in their 80's and 90's, healthy hardy folks often blessed with a full head of hair, a strong wiry body, and a big smile on their faces that belies the fact that they've lived a hard, simple life with no luxuries such as air conditioning, purified water, modern health care, rich foods, or any such thing.

If those folks are unhappy, they sure do a great job of hiding it.

[wolfmanjack]

If I had could afford to have ??????? any time I wanted would I be happy ??? You bet !!!

My list.

Belhaven Beer

Maine Lobster

Alaskan King Crab

Idaho Potatoes

Flathead Cherries

Wisconsin Cheese

Corn fed Black Angus

Fresh Blueberries

Fresh Huckelberries

Snow skiing

Water skiing

A boat for fishing and money for the gasoline

Money for airplane tickets and expenses to travel Whenever i felt like it

etc

etc

etc

Money can Buy happiness but only when you know what you want and are satisfied once you have it. If you keep setting new goals every time you reach the ones you set before you may never be satisfied with what you have.