Do Residents Of Thailand Need To Declare All Their Assets?

[KiChakayan]

On 4/7/2019 at 4:31 PM, ThaiBunny said:

The IRS (or equivalent) would need some legal authority to freeze your assets for non-payment of tax.  There have been reports of Australians being prevented from leaving the country because of substantial unpaid debts for child support that's been ordered as part of a divorce settlement, but their bank accounts aren't frozen

Fair enough...

[KiChakayan]

5 hours ago, Berkshire said:

So based on this, if an American guy has his monthly social security or pension sent directly to Thailand, he needs to pay taxes on it?  He's clearly bringing in income the same year it's earned and it's already been taxed.  Doesn't make sense.

 

My belief is that you're only taxed in Thailand for income earned in Thailand.

This is the reason why I would definitely NOT let UNJSPF pay my pension directly nito a Thai bank. And for the same reason I choose to stick to the 400000 Thb in a bank to justify my extensions of stay.

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some changes in the future.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

1 hour ago, DogNo1 said:

Well, Japan has a new tax law that requires Japan residents to report their worldwide assets and pay tax on worldwide income.  Supposedly the new law is meant to collect tax from wealthy Japanese who have squirreled their money away overseas.  I am an American resident of Japan but until this year I have only reported and paid tax on my Japanese income.  I don’t yet know the peculiarities of the new Japanese tax return but because the USA and Japan have a tax treaty, I may not have to pay any Japanese federal tax but the worry is the city tax which is quite high.  To file, I would probably need to hire a Japanese accountant which could be quite expensive.  In addition, long-term residents will have to pay an exit tax based on their total wealth starting in June 2020.  I mention all this because I have been planning to flee to Thailand later this year.  It looks as though Thailand may be planning to enforce the worldwide asset reporting to collect tax from wealthy Thais who keep their money overseas, especially in tax haven countries.  If this comes to pass, it will cause trouble and extra expense for Americans who will then need to file two returns even though no tax may be payable due to the Thai-US tax treaty.

I have never spent any US-earned income in Japan and have never spent any money earned in the current tax year in Thailand.  The bulk of my pension funds and investments are located in the US.

The bottom line of all this is the enforcement power of Japan and Thailand.  In Japan, the penalty for not declaring your worldwide assets is a $5,000 fine and/or a year in jail. The power of the prosecutors in Japan is formidable.  I hope that Thailand will retain its policy of not requiring foreign tax residents to report income from overseas but you never know.  It may follow Japan’s lead in order to ensnare wealthy Thais who keep their money off shore.

that is interesting. now all the counried in the world are changing their tax and declaration laws,

following the new CSR changes.

all this started following the FATCA which the obama administration imposed in a desperate

attempt to recover the 2009 crisis losses.

now the rest of the world is following, and the whole world is becoming one big mafia, with

the help of the global bank system.

i heard horror storied about bank account frozen in one country, until the owner of the

bank account will produce tax papers from his tax residency country.

another story i heard from a german citizen who live in thailand for many years, is that they told him

in germany to show where he worked and paid taxes for the past 12 years. he could not do it because

his business is registered on his thai wife name, and so all the taxes paid there. so the

german authorities told him that they will cancell his passport. means

that he will have to go back to germany and stay there !!

so what he did is he found the one country that germany does not have diplomatic relationships

with, and there he produced fake documents proving that he works there as a "coltiral advisor"...

i don't know if this story is true but so i heard.

Edited April 8, 2019 by SCOTT FITZGERSLD

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

30 minutes ago, KiChakayan said:

Fair enough...

any bank can freeze your account - or some money / investments in your account - without

any warning or legal order.

the bank may do so based on their inquiries or demands to see more "papers" for this or that

amount.

the bank is just a business and does not have to keep your money, not to keep your account with them.

i know someone who's bank account was closed just like that. the bank told him they can do

it without notification; just like he or any other cusromer can close his account anytime.

in such case the bank will give him his balance, his money in his account, in the form

of a cheque, and off you go, go look for another bank account (sometimes

those bank cheques are marked in a way that signal to other banks that it comes

from a suspicious / problematic client, and this way it is harder to deposit

in abother bank).

Edited April 8, 2019 by SCOTT FITZGERSLD

[metisdead]

An offensive post has been removed as well as inflammatory reply using ALL CAPS.  Rather than posting flaming replies to objectionable posts, please use the report button to report the objectionable content. Please keep your Caps Lock button turned off as well. 

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

5 hours ago, mp10 said:

question: if I had a foreigner income that I brought into the country do I need to file as PIT even if I spent less than 180 days in the country during that tax year?

Thanks

no. because under 180 days a year you are not considered tax resident.

my j question was, do i have to declare such income / assets, if i

become thai tax resident...

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

31 minutes ago, KiChakayan said:

Fair enough...

The IRS (or equivalent) ARE the legal authority !!

they first shoot, later ask.

happaned to me in my country.

all my bank accounts were frozen by some tax authority, for some

debt they claimed i had from years ago !!

i did not even know the debt existed...it was  400 USD debt that grew

to over 3500 USD with all their fines and "interest".

i told the law that i don't have to pay it because they did not

let me know about it during all those years - and i won !!

[rickudon]

I cannot see any government in Thailand lasting long if it tried to tax Hiso foreign assets !

 

Of course laws can change in any country. But currently as said by MANY people, Thailand doesn't tax money brought into the country not earned in that tax year. They would have a nearly impossible task proving it was earned in the current tax year as well. Also with the double taxation treaties any tax which would need paying would be trivial, apart from the fact that government pensions (certainly mine) are currently excused Thai taxation.

 

I hardly ever do bank to bank transfers, just use home country ATM cards. I wonder how they would track that ..... and authorities are welcome to try and track my money, do they want to know about the 16 different accounts most of which have under 10 GBP in half the time????. I also use cash ......

 

Ok, maybe an issue for you millionaires, shifting hundreds of thousands at a time, not for me.

 

Do you know any Thai small business owner who pays tax? Very hard to find ..... somehow they never earn more than 10,000 baht a month .....

[emptypockets]

On 4/7/2019 at 5:12 PM, elviajero said:

There are thousands of expats living in Thailand and the Revenue Department aren't tracking them down demanding to know about their foreign assets. IMO that is all the proof you need.

 

 

Be interesting to see what happens to the folk who go down the monthly income route bringing in 65000bht plus into Thailand monthly.  I wonder if this will be deemed income earned in the current financial year and taxed accordingly?

That thread should run to a 100 pages. 

[DogNo1]

I have and always will pay all that I owe to the US IRS.  What I am worried about is what authority Japan and Thailand have to seize my money in the US or to arrest me for tax evasion.  Could I be extradited to Japan or Thailand to stand trial if they accuse me of tax evasion? Japan has recently revised their inheritance tax law to apply to former residents of Japan for ten years after they leave.  If anyone doubts that Japan is prepared to deal harshly with foreigners who they accuse of breaking the law only needs to view the news about the arrest and re-arrest of Carlos Ghosn.  Fortunately his wife was able to escape to Paris even though her passport was seized.  

So far as I know, the Thai and Japanese authorities do not have that power now.  I keep little money in Japan and Thailand so I don't care if they seize my local assets.  What I am worried about is my funds in the US and my daughter's inheritance of them.  She lives in the US and I have warned her never to set foot on Japanese territory including Japanese embassies and consulates.  The Japanese tax on her inheritance would be 50%!

[DogNo1]

I don't know Thai tax law but certainly there must be a foreign earned income exclusion.  I wonder if it would be equal to or higher than 800,000.  Does anyone know?

[elviajero]

7 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Be interesting to see what happens to the folk who go down the monthly income route bringing in 65000bht plus into Thailand monthly.  I wonder if this will be deemed income earned in the current financial year and taxed accordingly?

That thread should run to a 100 pages. 

People transfering income rather than pension income are on very dodgy ground.

 

As I’ve said for many years, people with retirement extensions are suspsossed to be retired and not working.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

i aggree.

i would add that the japanese tax authorities can be unexpected, operate

outside the law and not really "democratic". that's what happaned in the case of carlos ghosan

and that's what happaned to friends of mine who had businesses in japan.

they came to one of them , accused him of cheating customs for years, and demanded

200,000 USD in back taxes. when he tried to protest a lawyer told him  :

they give you two options - or that you pay or that you will be deported.

after all, japan is not realy a democracy. nor thailand.

problems can even happan with your bank in the US, if the japanese will inform the

US bank that your funds are not taxes properly, the US bank might freese your account.

that's what banks all over the world are doing when the US tax authorities

are complaining to them about problems with this or that account / person.

USA started all this global tax mess with their FATCA, and now every country and even

just a bank feels the right to tax anyone anywhere.

HELL, they might even open kanchanaburi POW camp again, and throw there all

regional tax evadors.

Edited April 8, 2019 by SCOTT FITZGERSLD

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

6 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

I don't know Thai tax law but certainly there must be a foreign earned income exclusion.  I wonder if it would be equal to or higher than 800,000.  Does anyone know?

the 800,000 amount is representing the annual living expenses a foreigner

should have in thailand. has nothing to do with tax.

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

any bank can freeze your account - or some money / investments in your account - without

any warning or legal order.

the bank may do so based on their inquiries or demands to see more "papers" for this or that

amount.

the bank is just a business and does not have to keep your money, not to keep your account with them.

i know someone who's bank account was closed just like that. the bank told him they can do

it without notification; just like he or any other cusromer can close his account anytime.

in such case the bank will give him his balance, his money in his account, in the form

of a cheque, and off you go, go look for another bank account (sometimes

those bank cheques are marked in a way that signal to other banks that it comes

from a suspicious / problematic client, and this way it is harder to deposit

in abother bank).

Who had their account frozen?  What for?  What bank?  What country?  For how much money?  A bank will always give you notice to transfer your account to another bank.  I don't find your story believable with no details. 

[emptypockets]

7 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

the 800,000 amount is representing the annual living expenses a foreigner

should have in thailand. has nothing to do with tax.

It might have if the authorities see it is from a monthly pension earned in the same year. 

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, KiChakayan said:

This is the reason why I would definitely NOT let UNJSPF pay my pension directly nito a Thai bank. And for the same reason I choose to stick to the 400000 Thb in a bank to justify my extensions of stay.

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some changes in the future.

No tax on money already taxed of your country has a treaty like the USA.

[marcusarelus]

9 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

It might have if the authorities see it is from a monthly pension earned in the same year. 

What tax authorities would look at an Immigration report and how would that happen?

[ThomasThBKK]

6 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Who had their account frozen?  What for?  What bank?  What country?  For how much money?  A bank will always give you notice to transfer your account to another bank.  I don't find your story believable with no details. 

 

It's totally believeable, happens all the time. 

If you have debt they can go to the court and seize ur bank account. Then you end up with more debt as there will be fines, more debt as ur bank acc is frozen etc.

It's a death spiral that drives poor people into being even more poor. 

[marcusarelus]

Just now, ThomasThBKK said:

 

It's totally believeable, happens all the time. 

If you have debt they can go to the court and seize ur bank account. Then you end up with more debt as there will be fines, more debt as ur bank acc is frozen etc.

It's a death spiral that drives poor people into being even more poor. 

No it doesn't and it's not believable.  I have just looked on line at the finances of an ex wife - wondered how she is doing.  I read 3 pages of court docs trying to get at a bank account and piece of property she owns and in the end settled for 10 cents on the dollar. 

[emptypockets]

9 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

What tax authorities would look at an Immigration report and how would that happen?

I have no idea..... Maybe the smart ones? 

[UKresonant]

1 hour ago, DogNo1 said:

I hope that Thailand will retain its policy of not requiring foreign tax residents to report income from overseas but you never know.  It may follow Japan’s lead in order to ensnare wealthy Thais who keep their money off shore.

I do hope so to, as quite often these rules are poorly considered for the effect on the not so wealthy, and as usual 100% are given  a pile of stress, for them to counter the actions of a small minority.

 

From a UK point of view, I understand that the only income that clearly would not be taxable in Thailand, would be pensions arising from Government service, (The HMRC, when I talked to them in FEB, said it is still sometimes that a country will want the tax detail just to credit it back again, for those) As discussed in another thread if you are direct crediting (_UK) in anything but Military/.GOV pensions, caution advised , 

 

 

[mp10]

3 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

no. because under 180 days a year you are not considered tax resident.

my j question was, do i have to declare such income / assets, if i

become thai tax resident...

Correct, I'm not 'resident' but I hold a visa/work permit and I need to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand. Thank you for the clarifications.

[ukrules]

On 4/7/2019 at 5:01 PM, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

has to DECLARE ALL HIS ASSETS ALL OVER THE WORLD !!

That's an American thing.

[Lacessit]

9 hours ago, emptypockets said:

You may be in for shock then.  I did my tax late last year as I work overseas and don't go back to Oz very often.  I forgot one share income statement.  My accountant said no worries I'll just look it up online with the tax department.  They know pretty well everything as it ALL gets reported . You might not see or hear anything until you go for a holiday back to Oz.... Then it might all turn to shit at passport control. 

 I go back to Oz every six months. I've been doing that for ten years now. The tax returns I do, do not omit anything. They are done through a tax accountant, who gets until March the following year to lodge them.

What are you saying? I'm going to be hauled off to durance vile by Border Force at the behest of the ATO? Excuse me for thinking that's ridiculous.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies about tax debts in Australia have been removed. 

[Naam]

22 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

It looks as though Thailand may be planning to enforce the worldwide asset reporting to collect tax from wealthy Thais who keep their money overseas, especially in tax haven countries.

nonsense!

[Naam]

On 4/8/2019 at 2:21 PM, khunPer said:

Thai dividend tax is 10%, so paying Thai dividend tax might be better than one's home country tax

Thai dividend tax is levied only on dividends of stocks bought at SET and held in a Thai account.

[Naam]

21 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

that is interesting. now all the counried in the world are changing their tax and declaration laws,

following the new CSR changes.

all this started following the FATCA which the obama administration imposed in a desperate

attempt to recover the 2009 crisis losses.

now the rest of the world is following, and the whole world is becoming one big mafia, with

the help of the global bank system.

i heard horror storied about bank account frozen in one country, until the owner of the

bank account will produce tax papers from his tax residency country.

another story i heard from a german citizen who live in thailand for many years, is that they told him

in germany to show where he worked and paid taxes for the past 12 years. he could not do it because

his business is registered on his thai wife name, and so all the taxes paid there. so the

german authorities told him that they will cancell his passport. means

that he will have to go back to germany and stay there !!

so what he did is he found the one country that germany does not have diplomatic relationships

with, and there he produced fake documents proving that he works there as a "coltiral advisor"...

i don't know if this story is true but so i heard.

bar stool information from A-Z.

[Naam]

19 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

I don't know Thai tax law but certainly there must be a foreign earned income exclusion.  I wonder if it would be equal to or higher than 800,000.  Does anyone know?

there is none as Thai tax practice is basically "no tax on foreign income".