Who really suffers

[Thailand Outcast]

47 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

If you rent a home and have to pay a deposit you can't spend your money aswell.

Do you rent a home in Thailand that requires a 800k deposit?  ????

[55Jay]

13 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

Matter of principle as well.

 

Since when did The Thai government, and Thai banks, become a charity that should be donated to?

I know you don't really mean that.  You don't lose the fenced off 400k, it's still yours. 

 

Reckon it would cost me about that much more for the privilege of living in Kalifornia - 3 layers of taxes apart from Federal/FICA, and the various insurances deemed necessary to protect yourself from financial ruin.  400k ain't shit.

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by 55Jay

[marcusarelus]

4 hours ago, CanuckThai said:

No argument, but that is part of the point.  Who in their right mind (back in our home countries), would park the equivalent of 800K baht in a bank, to basically lose against annual inflation?   No significant gain, no tax incentive, nada.   A reasonable investment (or brokerage) can almost guarantee a safe X points above inflation or X% over interest rates at a bank...

 

An annual burning of 20 baht bills for a humdinger of a bbq, would give a better roi than parking 800k here.

The currency appreciation.  Didn't think about that?  2% interest and 50% currency appreciation.  ????

[Thailand Outcast]

4 hours ago, CanuckThai said:

No argument, but that is part of the point.  Who in their right mind (back in our home countries), would park the equivalent of 800K baht in a bank, to basically lose against annual inflation?   No significant gain, no tax incentive, nada.   A reasonable investment (or brokerage) can almost guarantee a safe X points above inflation or X% over interest rates at a bank...

 

An annual burning of 20 baht bills for a humdinger of a bbq, would give a better roi than parking 800k here.

True.  It's a lousy deal.

 

That's why I never did it a few years ago, and why I will not do it now, despite some manipulation to force me do so.

 

 

[BertM]

4 hours ago, CanuckThai said:

No argument, but that is part of the point.  Who in their right mind (back in our home countries), would park the equivalent of 800K baht in a bank, to basically lose against annual inflation?

Many people in their right mind keep that much and more in cash reserves for normal operations & emergencies. I keep more than 800k in Thailand for my extension renewals and for my Thai wife to use in case I pass away until my estate is settled. I am happy with the ~2% interest on my 800k. I also keep a minimum of $25k in USA in my checking & savings for normal operations, paying bill's, etc., and i also have $500k in CDs and $2MM more in stocks for a 80/20 stock to cash portfolio mix with the rest in real estate investments.

From a retired certified financial planner, CFP.

Edited April 8, 2019 by BertM

[Thailand Outcast]

3 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

The currency appreciation.  Didn't think about that?  2% interest and 50% currency appreciation.  ????

Got to be able to "use" your money, then be able to get your money out of Thailand, then convert it, to see those gains.  

[Snow Leopard]

3 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

A balanced, and well managed, non aggressive fund, will return about 6% to 8%. 

 

Factor those losses into the cost of your visa, by keeping 800k in a Thai bank. 

 

What do you think the Thai banks do with your 800k?

If you are actually getting 6-8% these days after all the deductions and fees then you are doing well. I don't think it would be that high over say 10 years. Anyway, I get your point. 

 

I am currently on the income method because I work outside Thailand. This whole fiasco has made me rethink the best solution for me. 

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

Got to be able to "use" your money, then be able to get your money out of Thailand, then convert it, to see those gains.  

I put it in 20 years ago and have taken out the interest every year and used the money that I exchanged at 50 baht to the dollar. 

Edited April 8, 2019 by marcusarelus

[marcusarelus]

8 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said:

If you are actually getting 6-8% these days after all the deductions and fees then you are doing well. I don't think it would be that high over say 10 years. Anyway, I get your point. 

 

I am currently on the income method because I work outside Thailand. This whole fiasco has made me rethink the best solution for me. 

Figure how much money you made extra?  Interest  on 25 grand and currency drop of the pound.  You tell me?  it's peanuts.  Or a couple of bottles of wine.  People who don't have an extra 25 to dump in an interest bearing bank account are not investment guru's.  Just another way of saying I don't like Thailand. 

Edited April 8, 2019 by marcusarelus

[Thailand Outcast]

7 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

I know you don't really mean that.  You don't lose the fenced off 400k, it's still yours. 

 

Reckon it would cost me about that much more for the privledge of living in Kalifornia -3 layers of taxes apart from Federal/FICA, and the various insurances deemed necessary if you want to drive a car, or get sued for a traffic accident, or you have a medical problem.  400k ain't shit.

 

The 400k is "fenced off" or you don't get the next visa, and it's possible your current visa gets revoked at your 90 day report, because some immigration offices are requiring you show your bank book at the report. 

 

Now, if you're American, as it sounds you are, compare what hoops Thailand want you to jump through, and what they make you pay to jump through those hoops, to Cambodia with their $300USD 1 year multi entry visa, and Vietnam, with their $185USD 1 year multi entry visa for US citizens.

 

Here's one from the first page of Google for Vietnam.

 

https://www.myvietnamvisa.com/vietnam-visa-cost.html

 

Now, do you still want to tell me what a good deal Thailand is giving you, so you are "allowed"  to spend money in their economy?  ????

[Snow Leopard]

5 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Figure how much money you made extra?  Interest  on 25 grand and currency drop of the pound.  You tell me?  it's peanuts.  Or a couple of bottles of wine.  People who don't have an extra 25 to dump in an interest bearing bank account are not investment guru's.  Just another way of saying I don't like Thailand. 

You are quoting 20 years ago. Today the situation is completely different. Right now I don't need the 25K in Thailand. You completely missed my point. 

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, Snow Leopard said:

You are quoting 20 years ago. Today the situation is completely different. Right now I don't need the 25K in Thailand. You completely missed my point. 

You wrote, " I am currently on the income method because I work outside Thailand. This whole fiasco has made me rethink the best solution for me."  

 

Go home.  Get an O-A once every two years.  Or put 25 chump change in a good as gold Thai bank fixed deposit account at 2%.  Now, no proplem. 

[arithai12]

6 hours ago, lelapin said:

They already have had their large settlements and do not know I live in Thailand.

In other words they are your ex-wives or estranged and you could marry your gf in Thailand if you wanted to but you don't, which makes your point about "losers" rather moot.

[Thailand Outcast]

16 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said:

If you are actually getting 6-8% these days after all the deductions and fees then you are doing well. I don't think it would be that high over say 10 years. Anyway, I get your point. 

 

I am currently on the income method because I work outside Thailand. This whole fiasco has made me rethink the best solution for me. 

Not supposed to have a retirement visa if still working.  

 

I'm getting 6% to 8%.  No problem at all, and non aggressive. 

 

In loses from not being able to use your 800k baht elsewhere, it's costing someone on the 800k / 400k method around 4000 baht more a month than someone using the dodgy agent method, given an agent charges 20,000 baht.

 

If the agents are allowed to operate under the new laws, those on the 800k / 400k method will be paying 4000 baht a month more for the same product, a retirement visa, and they can never touch 400k of their own money, even after the 800k has been seasoned. 

 

You would never accept a deal like this buying a property, car, business etc.  For me, it's the same.  A Thai visa is just another commodity. 

[Thailand Outcast]

19 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Figure how much money you made extra?  Interest  on 25 grand and currency drop of the pound.  You tell me?  it's peanuts.  Or a couple of bottles of wine.  People who don't have an extra 25 to dump in an interest bearing bank account are not investment guru's.  Just another way of saying I don't like Thailand. 

Since when were we talking solely about the GBP?

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

Not supposed to have a retirement visa if still working.  

 

I'm getting 6% to 8%.  No problem at all, and non aggressive. 

 

In loses from not being able to use your 800k baht elsewhere, it's costing someone on the 800k / 400k method around 4000 baht more a month than someone using the dodgy agent method, given an agent charges 20,000 baht.

 

If the agents are allowed to operate under the new laws, those on the 800k / 400k method will be paying 4000 baht a month more for the same product, a retirement visa, and they can never touch 400k of their own money, even after the 800k has been seasoned. 

 

You would never accept a deal like this buying a property, car, business etc.  For me, it's the same.  A Thai visa is just another commodity. 

You don't have enough money to afford a Thai retirement visa.  It costs $259 per month to borrow 25 grand for 10 years.

[arithai12]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

A good way to lose in the long term.

Wherever you are, banks pay 1-2% interest. They then lend it out at 6-7%.

Let's say you have funds on deposit in Australia, current interest rate 1.5%. As income, it is then taxed say at 30%. Your real rate of return is then 1% pa.

At an annual inflation rate of 3%, your capital is being chewed up at a rate of 2% per year.

In Thailand, we are forced to keep 800,000 baht on deposit. It is what it is.

IMHO anyone who keeps more than living expenses on deposit with a bank is financially illiterate.

Thanks for your little lesson on arithmetics, we really had no idea.

[roo860]

Thanks for your little lesson on arithmetics, we really had no idea.

[emoji108]

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[55Jay]

15 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

The 400k is "fenced off" or you don't get the next visa, and it's possible your current visa gets revoked at your 90 day report, because some immigration offices are requiring you show your bank book at the report. 

 

Now, if you're American, as it sounds you are, compare what hoops Thailand want you to jump through, and what they make you pay to jump through those hoops, to Cambodia with their $300USD 1 year multi entry visa, and Vietnam, with their $185USD 1 year multi entry visa for US citizens.

 

Here's one from the first page of Google for Vietnam.

 

https://www.myvietnamvisa.com/vietnam-visa-cost.html

 

Now, do you still want to tell me what a good deal Thailand is giving you, so you are "allowed"  to spend money in their economy?  ????

Never been to Cambodia or Vietnam.  No desire to ever go or live there either. 

 

I never said Thailand was a good deal.

 

You have options.  Exercise your prerogative. 

[Snow Leopard]

18 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

You wrote, " I am currently on the income method because I work outside Thailand. This whole fiasco has made me rethink the best solution for me."  

 

Go home.  Get an O-A once every two years.  Or put 25 chump change in a good as gold Thai bank fixed deposit account at 2%.  Now, no proplem. 

Correct. My point is that 25K chump change will be equal to nothing in the future. So when will the top-ups or increases start?

 

My rethink is to do O-A every two years or not? Vs 800K.  It actually has other advantages down the road having a base in the UK for me. 

[Thailand Outcast]

9 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

You don't have enough money to afford a Thai retirement visa.  It costs $259 per month to borrow 25 grand for 10 years.

Who's talking about borrowing?

 

I have the money.  This is just a lousy deal.

 

I was on the 65k method, and could prove I had more than 65k income a month.

 

I'll consider using a dodgy agent, or spend 6 months in Vietnam, and 6 months in Thailand on tourist visas.

 

Geez.  If a bar girl tells you the family's buffalo is sick, you'd laugh.  If the Thai government say you have to season 800k longer, and 400k is untouched forever, most say, "Ok."  Just like sheep. 

[Thailand Outcast]

16 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Never been to Cambodia or Vietnam.  No desire to ever go or live there either. 

 

I never said Thailand was a good deal.

 

You have options.  Exercise your prerogative. 

You have options also, so I suggest you explore a Plan B.

 

If you have never been to these places, how do you know what they are like, thus, how can you say you have no desire to see them or live there?

Edited April 8, 2019 by Thailand Outcast

[Thailand Outcast]

14 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

Thanks for your little lesson on arithmetics, we really had no idea.

You would be surprised how many don't.  ????

[55Jay]

Just now, Thailand Outcast said:

You have options also, so I suggest you explore a Plan B.

 

If you have never been to these places, how do you know what they are like, thus can say you have no desire to see them or live there?

Thanks for the advice, bro, I'll take it under advisement.  ????

 

 

 

 

[Snow Leopard]

There is more than one way to skin a cat as always. The problem is this. People who are already living in Thailand and those that are thinking of living in Thailand in the future. I feel sympathy for the ones already trapped due to stupid rule changes but the one coming in has clear sight of their options going forward. 

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said:

Correct. My point is that 25K chump change will be equal to nothing in the future. So when will the top-ups or increases start?

 

My rethink is to do O-A every two years or not? Vs 800K.  It actually has other advantages down the road having a base in the UK for me. 

800 will go to 1 mil in May

Edited April 8, 2019 by marcusarelus

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, marcusarelus said:

800 will go to 1 mil in May

Which year?

[Thailand Outcast]

2 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said:

There is more than one way to skin a cat as always. The problem is this. People who are already living in Thailand and those that are thinking of living in Thailand in the future. I feel sympathy for the ones already trapped due to stupid rule changes but the one coming in has clear sight of their options going forward. 

Firstly, with rules like this, I doubt Thailand will be attracting the next generation of retirees in the number that it did before, not to mention the strong baht.

 

Then, there is no "clear sight" for anyone because the goal posts can be changed at any time, as we saw with the fast pace of change with these new visa laws. 

[Snow Leopard]

1 minute ago, Thailand Outcast said:

Firstly, with rules like this, I doubt Thailand will be attracting the next generation of retirees in the number that it did before, not to mention the strong baht.

 

Then, there is no "clear sight" for anyone because the goal posts can be changed at any time, as we saw with the fast pace of change with these new visa laws. 

Sounds like you know a lot. 

[Thailand Outcast]

1 minute ago, Snow Leopard said:

Sounds like you know a lot. 

No.  Just your average guy that can see through Thai BS. 

 

If you are working outside Thailand, how long are you actually in Thailand for? 

 

You may be better off on different visa.