Who really suffers

[bkk6060]

8 hours ago, NancyL said:

I know several elderly expats who, as they got to be 80 - 85+ in age, decided to simplify their financial life and bring all their money into Thailand to make it easier for their Thai partner/spouse to access it upon their passing.  And yes, it did simplify matters when they passed compared with men who had complex financial portfolios overseas, trying to milk out the last $1 in complex investments where the legal fees and time needed to access the money were staggering upon their passing, even with properly written Final Wills.

?

Are you a female Thai partner?

 

Most older males who are here do have some family in their home country.  Your suggestion to " bring all their money into Thailand" seems very odd to me.

I have a Trust in my home country. Most everything stays there and will be obtained by them without probate or taxes.  Usually can be settled in 30 to 60 days.

I would suggest to anyone, keep the minimum here if you have and care about your family in your home country and prepare the proper documents.

 

On this,  I think the most ignorant financially educated people I have met in the world may be Falang in Thailand.

No insurance.

No wills.

Little money.

No plan.

Still cannot figure out the new Visa rules.

Etc.

Sad and dumb.....

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by bkk6060

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

Which year?

2019

[Snow Leopard]

1 minute ago, Thailand Outcast said:

No.  Just your average guy that can see through Thai BS. 

 

If you are working outside Thailand, how long are you actually in Thailand for? 

 

You may be better off on different visa. 

I am on a 12-month O&A issued in Dubai on income method. They wanted 800K equivalent in AED in my local UAE bank account for a minimum of 3 months. I could show them that I transfer my money to Jersey and they wouldn't accept it. So income it was. 

[Snow Leopard]

5 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

No.  Just your average guy that can see through Thai BS. 

 

If you are working outside Thailand, how long are you actually in Thailand for? 

 

You may be better off on different visa. 

Forgot to say. 12-month multi-entry. 

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

Firstly, with rules like this, I doubt Thailand will be attracting the next generation of retirees in the number that it did before, not to mention the strong baht.

 

Then, there is no "clear sight" for anyone because the goal posts can be changed at any time, as we saw with the fast pace of change with these new visa laws. 

No change for 20 years then a couple of small changes in 2019.  Not really a fast pace is it?  The big change has been the stable baht and the falling pound. 

[monkeycu]

9 hours ago, lelapin said:

With 2 wives still back in the UK that could be tricky!!!!!

 

Marry her then plead insanity  

[GeorgeCross]

1 hour ago, Thailand Outcast said:

A balanced, and well managed, non aggressive fund, will return about 6% to 8%. 

 

such as?

[Jingthing]

34 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said:

There is more than one way to skin a cat as always. The problem is this. People who are already living in Thailand and those that are thinking of living in Thailand in the future. I feel sympathy for the ones already trapped due to stupid rule changes but the one coming in has clear sight of their options going forward. 

Yes, exactly.

I don't recommend it.

[55Jay]

Just now, Thailand Outcast said:

No.  Just your average guy that can see through Thai BS. 

 

If you are working outside Thailand, how long are you actually in Thailand for? 

 

You may be better off on different visa. 

But you should stop and consider the things you are saying may not be an astounding revelation to others.  800k is the cost of doing business in this particular sweaty armpit of SE Asia.   It is what it is.

 

Good luck in Vietnam.  When are you leaving?

[CanuckThai]

1 hour ago, BertM said:

Many people in their right mind keep that much and more in cash reserves for normal operations & emergencies. I keep more than 800k in Thailand for my extension renewals and for my Thai wife to use in case I pass away until my estate is settled. I am happy with the ~2% interest on my 800k. I also keep a minimum of $25k in USA in my checking & savings for normal operations, paying bill's, etc., and i also have $500k in CDs and $2MM more in stocks for a 80/20 stock to cash portfolio mix with the rest in real estate investments.

From a retired certified financial planner, CFP.

Sounds nice.  I keep a couple (3) months worth of operating cash, and a 50k (CDN) line of credit in case of an emergency.  Every other satang goes towards investments/retirement/(RSP).  I'm not retired yet....

[ubonjoe]

A inflammatory off topic post has been removed.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, BertM said:

Many people in their right mind keep that much and more in cash reserves for normal operations & emergencies. I keep more than 800k in Thailand for my extension renewals and for my Thai wife to use in case I pass away until my estate is settled. I am happy with the ~2% interest on my 800k. I also keep a minimum of $25k in USA in my checking & savings for normal operations, paying bill's, etc., and i also have $500k in CDs and $2MM more in stocks for a 80/20 stock to cash portfolio mix with the rest in real estate investments.

From a retired certified financial planner, CFP.

We all know financial planners do quite well for themselves out of other people's money. Thanks for sharing.

[Thailand Outcast]

1 hour ago, 55Jay said:

But you should stop and consider the things you are saying may not be an astounding revelation to others.  800k is the cost of doing business in this particular sweaty armpit of SE Asia.   It is what it is.

 

Good luck in Vietnam.  When are you leaving?

800k isn't the cost of doing business here.  It's what the Thai's think farang are prepared to pay.  Wait till it goes to 1 million, or 1.2 million. 

 

i didn't pay it then, and I'm not going to pay it now, and I will not be paying it in the future.

 

I was on the 65k method.  When that method stopped for me, I thought for sure all the dodgy agents "loaning" 800k for a few hours would have to cease, but no, this is Thailand, and it is appearing more and more that the new laws were designed to push expats onto dodgy agents, for corrupt financial gain of the immigration department, and their agent partners.

 

So, if the use of these dodgy agents are basically going to be state sanctioned, I will not be leaving. 

 

I'll have the same visa as someone on the 800k / 400k method, but I will be paying about 4000 baht less a month less for it, and I'll be able to use my money as I please, and I will not have to worry about seasoning time periods and paperwork, and dealing with immigration officers.

 

So, if this is the case, tell me why anyone would use the 800k / 400k method?  Why pay more for the same?  Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up giving the 800k / 400k guys a hard time, because immigration officers don't make any money out of them. 

 

if the agents get shut down, it's Vietnam 6 months and Thailand 6 months on tourist visas.   Either way, the Thai government doesn't get to tell me what I will do with my money, just to stay in Thailand 6 months more of a year. 

[steven100]

5 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

800k isn't the cost of doing business here.  It's what the Thai's think farang are prepared to pay.  Wait till it goes to 1 million, or 1.2 million. 

 

i didn't pay it then, and I'm not going to pay it now, and I will not be paying it in the future.

 

I was on the 65k method.  When that method stopped for me, I thought for sure all the dodgy agents "loaning" 800k for a few hours would have to cease, but no, this is Thailand, and it is appearing more and more that the new laws were designed to push expats onto dodgy agents, for corrupt financial gain of the immigration department, and their agent partners.

 

So, if the use of these dodgy agents are basically going to be state sanctioned, I will not be leaving. 

 

I'll have the same visa as someone on the 800k / 400k method, but I will be paying about 4000 baht less a month less for it, and I'll be able to use my money as I please, and I will not have to worry about seasoning time periods and paperwork, and dealing with immigration officers.

 

So, if this is the case, tell me why anyone would use the 800k / 400k method?  Why pay more for the same?  Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up giving the 800k / 400k guys a hard time, because immigration officers don't make any money out of them. 

 

if the agents get shut down, it's Vietnam 6 months and Thailand 6 months on tourist visas.   Either way, the Thai government doesn't get to tell me what I will do with my money, just to stay in Thailand 6 months more of a year. 

I don't think Thailand or Vietnam wants someone of your attitude in their country to be honest.

[Lacessit]

7 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

800k isn't the cost of doing business here.  It's what the Thai's think farang are prepared to pay.  Wait till it goes to 1 million, or 1.2 million. 

 

i didn't pay it then, and I'm not going to pay it now, and I will not be paying it in the future.

 

I was on the 65k method.  When that method stopped for me, I thought for sure all the dodgy agents "loaning" 800k for a few hours would have to cease, but no, this is Thailand, and it is appearing more and more that the new laws were designed to push expats onto dodgy agents, for corrupt financial gain of the immigration department, and their agent partners.

 

So, if the use of these dodgy agents are basically going to be state sanctioned, I will not be leaving. 

 

I'll have the same visa as someone on the 800k / 400k method, but I will be paying about 4000 baht less a month less for it, and I'll be able to use my money as I please, and I will not have to worry about seasoning time periods and paperwork, and dealing with immigration officers.

 

So, if this is the case, tell me why anyone would use the 800k / 400k method?  Why pay more for the same?  Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up giving the 800k / 400k guys a hard time, because immigration officers don't make any money out of them. 

 

if the agents get shut down, it's Vietnam 6 months and Thailand 6 months on tourist visas.   Either way, the Thai government doesn't get to tell me what I will do with my money, just to stay in Thailand 6 months more of a year. 

You have the same visa? How does that work?

I was under the impression female company in Thailand is freely available, whereas in Vietnam it is fraught with difficulty. Feel free to educate me.

[BertM]

48 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

We all know financial planners do quite well for themselves out of other people's money. Thanks for sharing.

You're welcome. After working 39 years for the same company and making other people very wealthy, I retired at age 59 with a company pension, my gov't pension (when I decide to take it) and my own investments which have done very well. Sounds like you are a little envious and resentful, but wish you well anyway. I earned every bit of my money honestly. Enough said. ????

Edited April 8, 2019 by BertM

[JustAnotherHun]

3 hours ago, Snow Leopard said:

It doesn't make any difference keeping 800K in a Thai Bank or any bank outside Thailand. Central and Commercial Banks will devalue it to Zero in the end anyway. 

It might make a difference if the decline of our western currencies keeps on going. Everytime i look at the €/THB exchange rate, I'm quite happy that i transfered some money to here years ago.

[Thailand Outcast]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

No change for 20 years then a couple of small changes in 2019.  Not really a fast pace is it?  The big change has been the stable baht and the falling pound. 

Funny how "small changes" have big impacts in Thaiand.  Isn't it?  ????

 

i wonder what their next "small change" will be.  For sure it will not be for the benefit of foreigners. 

Edited April 8, 2019 by Thailand Outcast

[KiChakayan]

11 hours ago, lelapin said:

With 2 wives still back in the UK that could be tricky!!!!!

 

Hence "lelapin"... not sure many here can understand what "lapin" implies...

Edited April 8, 2019 by KiChakayan

[Thailand Outcast]

2 hours ago, Snow Leopard said:

I am on a 12-month O&A issued in Dubai on income method. They wanted 800K equivalent in AED in my local UAE bank account for a minimum of 3 months. I could show them that I transfer my money to Jersey and they wouldn't accept it. So income it was. 

So, you would know, as a foreigner working in the UAE, you should transfer most of your salary out, and just leave living expenses every month, otherwise, you, and your money, can be locked up in the UAE, should something unforeseen happen.

 

Yet, people don't see the 800k / 400k Thailand deal the same way. ????

Edited April 8, 2019 by Thailand Outcast

[Thailand Outcast]

1 hour ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

such as?

 

See Post 117 on this thread.

 

A poster from Australia asked the same question for his AUD. 

 

In a 20 second Google I found several options for him, all between 6% and 8% return, balanced, and non aggressive.  

 

Compare this to being forced to put 800k in a Thai bank at 1.5%, 400k of which you can never use, and you can see they are taking the p*ss. 

 

 

[bbi1]

"I read about the many farangs who will be suffering financially from the new retirement visa regulations. They are having to keep a large amount of baht in a bank account all year earning little or no interest. Maybe I have missed them but I have not read any comments about how it will affect many Thai ladies." - Um, how does it affect Thai ladies? They don't need a visa and don't need to keep money in the bank for a visa to stay in Thailand.

[ravip]

11 hours ago, lelapin said:

With 2 wives still back in the UK that could be tricky!!!!!

 

2 wives + 1 gf, you sure should be loaded very well and 800k Bhat in the bank must be peanuts!

On the other hand, if 800k stuck in the bank is a big issue to someone, should he/she REALLY think of relocating to another country?

Scraping the bottom of the barrel to relocate in another country, is in my book a very inadvisable action and may cause a huge amount of stress in life there after (it is very obvious when reading TVF these days).

[Thailand Outcast]

30 minutes ago, steven100 said:

I don't think Thailand or Vietnam wants someone of your attitude in their country to be honest.

Why do you say that? It has nothing to do with attitude.

 

Thailand offers itself as a "product" for prospective retirees, just like other countries.  The way you go and look at a house before you buy it, you should also look at a country before you retire there.    

 

There are many places one can retire to.  Thailand isn't the only place in the world expats can retire to, although Thailand would like to think it is.

 

Is it so unthinkable other nearby countries offer a similar lifestyle, but with easier visa requirements than Thailand, not to mention, more spending power on exchange, because the baht artificially strong, and a lot less BS?

 

I'll ask you the question that I have asked others.  What would be a figure for you before you said enough is enough?  1 million?  1.5 million?  2 million?  For me, it's always been 800k.  Not because I haven't got 800k to do it, but because it's a bad deal. 

 

 

[Thailand Outcast]

43 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You have the same visa? How does that work?

I was under the impression female company in Thailand is freely available, whereas in Vietnam it is fraught with difficulty. Feel free to educate me.

I had been on the 65k method.

 

If the agents are allowed to continue to operate under the new laws, and their prices remain around the same as before, I will use their "services" and remain in Thailand. 

 

That means my 800k stays in my managed fund, in my home country, safe and secure, with a return of around 6% to 8%. 

 

I will have the same visa as a someone with 800k wasted in a Thai bank, 400k of which they have basically lost forever. 

 

You obviously haven't been to Vietnam for quite some time.  Plenty of female company in Vietnam, and no difficulty at all. 

 

At first, when these new visa laws came out, I thought for sure the agents would be shut down.  Now, it appears immigration is actually trying to push people onto them.

 

Like I have said, pay 20k to an agent without any other hoops to jump through, and maintain control over your finances, versus 800k in a Thai bank,  seasoning periods to consider, losing the right to use 400k of your own money, and you get paid 1.5% for the privilege, and, you have to deal with immigration officers.  Which one would you chose?

[steven100]

22 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

Not because I haven't got 800k to do it, but because it's a bad deal. 

I totally agree it's a bad deal .... unfortunately it won't ever get easier ..... probably only harder.

[Thailand Outcast]

16 minutes ago, steven100 said:

I totally agree it's a bad deal .... unfortunately it won't ever get easier ..... probably only harder.

Depends what "services" they allow the agents to offer.

 

I am starting to see that these new laws are all about making money for corrupt officials, and they agent partners.

 

Time will tell. 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, BertM said:

You're welcome. After working 39 years for the same company and making other people very wealthy, I retired at age 59 with a company pension, my gov't pension (when I decide to take it) and my own investments which have done very well. Sounds like you are a little envious and resentful, but wish you well anyway. I earned every bit of my money honestly. Enough said. ????

If you care to look at the Royal Commission in Australia on the subject of banks and their financial planning arms, you may understand my attitude somewhat better.

[amexpat]

11 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

On the new account, I'll ask the missus (of 21 years) to think of a six figure number that she can remember. I will then use this number as the PIN for the new ATM card. The card will then be put into a sealed envelope which I will sign across the flap and will be stored in the draw next to my bed.

Strict instructions to the wife that she can only open and use on my death.

OK if the account is in her name. Otherwise, using the ATM after your death is illegal. 

[Jip99]

Just now, amexpat said:

OK if the account is in her name. Otherwise, using the ATM after your death is illegal. 

 

 

It is illegal but it is also a practical solution that is widely used in Thailand - and elsewhere.