Trouble with my Landlord. Your Suggestions/Comments are Appreciated

[birdi9]

What if the landlord decides to take this matter to court as I am not prepared to pay the five months’ rent that I have paid also for a second time? What courses of actions are in front of me? What should I expect to happen? Do I have a valid contract considering the info that I have provided in the last two or three paragraphs? Can landlord’s copy be valid?

 

I am a tenant in Hua Hin and recently my landlord which lives in another city in Thailand has informed me through her liaison person that I haven't paid the rent for five months dating back to 17 months ago and its four succeeding months. I had paid those rents to my Thai lady friend that lived in my house during those months for handing over to landlord's liaison person in Hua Hin. Prior and after to those five months I have been paying the rent personally to this liaison person. The landlord and the liaison have no knowledge of English, no more than two or three words.

 

She brought back receipts, looked signed by the liaison, but now I think the signature on them is forged by my former lady friend. Both the landlord and her liaison in Hua Hin have kept me completely uninformed about the possible non-payment of the rent until four weeks ago. The house is very old and the rent for it is way over its current rental value. I believe the stronger possibility is that the landlord has received the rent, but not in full and has been paying a commission to my former lady friend, but not quite sure of the truth.

 

My former lady friend moved out one year ago as asked by me after she confessed to telling me lies on many matters, most of them having financial implications against me, stealing would perhaps be a better word. I am well into my pension age and had no clue to this lady betraying me as she had lived with me for over three years.

 

I am certain that there has been a deal or connivance between my former lady friend and the landlord for a long time, extending even up until 4 weeks ago.

 

The liaison person seems to have done and been listening to the landlord and also influenced by my lady friend.

 

Also, only very recently after showing the rental contracts to a Thai friend I realized that my former lady friend’s name is added in the signature section of the contract on top of my signature and name as my agent. Needless to say, that she hasn’t been my agent, has had no authorization from me and has added her name there in Thai most probably after I had signed the contract. This has happened in three contracts, including the most recent one. She lived in my house and had access to my papers.

 

The actual monthly rent as per the most recent contract altered in my lady friend’s hand writing had been reduced, but I have been paying the full rent.

 

MY REASONS FOR BELIEVING THAT THERE HAS BEEN A “DEAL” OR “CONNIVANCE” BETWEEN THE LANDLORD AND MY FORMER LADY FRIEND
 

1.     Keeping me deliberately uninformed for 16 months or more by the landlord on not receiving the rent for five months starting from November 2017 and ending in March 2018 (If she has truly not received the rent for the five months that she is claiming).

 

2.      Needless to say, that if the landlord had informed me immediately that she hasn’t received the rent for November of 2017 or earlier than that (whichever month she has in mind) I would have stopped paying the rent to my lady friend for payment to the liaison person immediately. And the problem could be stopped in November of 2017.

 

3.     Worthwhile to know is that during 5 years of staying at this house I have always paid the rent in advance. The landlord or the liaison person should not have waited for 16 months or more to tell me that the rent is due.

 

4.      After my lady friend left my house over a year ago, I have always paid 12500 Bahts per month and was not aware that the rent is corrected to 10000 Bahts per month in my copy of the contract. This could be one reason for hiding the possible non-payment of rent from me due to a private arrangement between them.

 

5.     Also, the liaison person had not informed me that he hasn’t been receiving the rent in spite of meeting me several times during the entire periods, at least once every month and in some months twice.

 

6.     The security deposit that I had paid prior to signing of the first contract (5000 Bahts) has not been mentioned in the latest contract that my former lady friend had facilitated signing with the landlord

 

7.     My copy of the contract is not dated and there are other changes and omissions in the contract in favour of the landlord, only initialed by the first name of the liaison person (perhaps forged) and not me.

 

8.     From the copy of the final contract, there are indications that my lady friend had negotiated the rent down. However, after she left my house, I have been paying the full amount to the liaison person.

 

It can also be seen by latest contract which is modified in my lady friend’s hand writing. This is another reason that I believe something important about the amount of rent has been and still is being hidden from me, ON THIS DATE.

 

***

 

During late February 2019 I gave a verbal notice to the liaison person about my decision to move out of the house.

 

During late March 2019 I handed over a written “Notice to Move Out” to the liaison person for delivery to the landlord. This was due to inaction of the landlord to arrange the repair of the roof. As a result of which substantial damage to my personal effects in storage room of the house due to rain leakage and general absence of interest in essential necessary repairs.

 

We went to reception desk of a nearby hotel for translation purpose and I also requested a meeting with the landlord to come to the house along with someone that can understand English to discuss and work out a date for moving out.

 

No response yet and I think it may not be forthcoming soon as the landlord simply ignores my requests. I suspect that it may be possibly due to a clause in her copy of the contract arranged by my former lady friend which could be different than mine. Please bear in mind that I trusted my former lady friend up until one day prior to asking her to leave the house.

 

About three weeks ago I handed over two files of the relevant rent receipts to the liaison person, one for his knowledge and the other for handing over to the landlord. If they haven’t received the rent for those five months, they will see for themselves that the signature of the liaison person is forged on five receipts. The liaison person was not surprised at all by seeing those receipts.

 

I am not sure that my copy of the final contract looks like the one in the possession of the landlord as there are many alterations on my copy in my lady friend’s hand writing. The previous contract had been altered to create the final contract. My copy is not dated. The period is two years in Thai, but one year in English, both already expired, March 2019. The period is from month to month rather than from date to date. The altered period has been altered again to extend the contract for one more year, not initialed by me and only initialed by the liaison person’s first name (I think forged by my former lady friend).

 

A few months ago, I had shown this contract to the liaison person with the amount of rent reduced on it. He shook his head as if he is aware of it. But I had been paying the full rent as had been asked by my lady friend (and wasn’t sure of the true situation).

 

I am aware that my case is a complicated one, but would appreciate with thanks the comments/suggestions that may be forthcoming. Regards, birdi9.

[Vacuum]

10 minutes ago, birdi9 said:

My former lady friend moved out one year ago as asked by me after she confessed to telling me lies on many matters, most of them having financial implications against me

So your "friend" kept the rental money for herself, instead of handing over the money to the house owner?

[ThaiBunny]

I just love the language - "my lady friend". She's ripped you off, mate; the landlord hasn't received a single satang and you still owe him the money. End of story

[madmen]

The joys of renting in Thailand !! so you paid your girlfriend to give to a middle man who paid the Landlord?  Its no wonder it went missing . Lesson learned , pay landlord direct or via Bank. Your lady friend has scammed you along with the middle man

[steven100]

The truth is that your ' lady friend ' completely and deliberately lied to you to seek financial gain.

Seriously,  who knows what's been altered  ??????

 

I believe the best course of action is gather all your receipts, contract copies and any other doc's related to the rental and/or payment.  ( I just read where you handed them over to liaison )

Do you have copies /

 

Anyway,   Cost of getting a Lawyer vs missing rent ......    A lawyer may cost 100,000 baht,  is it worth it ???

 

Next move :  I suggest you get the hell outta there and dissappear quitely into the night. Go home, go to a hotel, go anywhere but there.

 

It all sounds to complicated for most to evaluate or offer a solution ..... 

 

 

[scottiejohn]

Judge Judy has these cases every week.  If no receipt from the Landlord or his/her legal rep then no comeback.

I am assuming this is just not a very long troll from another newbie!

[steven100]

OP .....  did you ever watch mission impossible  !

[scottiejohn]

59 minutes ago, birdi9 said:

But I had been paying the full rent as had been asked by my lady friend (and wasn’t sure of the true situation).

Have you paid for the buffalo and her mum's land yet?

[Vacuum]

2 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Have you paid for the buffalo and her mum's land yet?

...or her 'brothers' moped, which he needs to get to work. What's the matter with people nowadays? You want a 'gf', rent her 'long time' at your favorite bar.

[scorecard]

56 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

So your "friend" kept the rental money for herself, instead of handing over the money to the house owner?

In other words the rent has never been paid to the owner of the house. If this is the real situation the landlord has done nothing wrong. 

[birdi9]

1 hour ago, Vacuum said:

So your "friend" kept the rental money for herself, instead of handing over the money to the house owner?

I didn't say she kept the rental money. That is a possibility though. 

[birdi9]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

The truth is that your ' lady friend ' completely and deliberately lied to you to seek financial gain.

Seriously,  who knows what's been altered  ??????

 

I believe the best course of action is gather all your receipts, contract copies and any other doc's related to the rental and/or payment.  ( I just read where you handed them over to liaison )

Do you have copies /

 

Anyway,   Cost of getting a Lawyer vs missing rent ......    A lawyer may cost 100,000 baht,  is it worth it ???

 

Next move :  I suggest you get the hell outta there and dissappear quitely into the night. Go home, go to a hotel, go anywhere but there.

 

It all sounds to complicated for most to evaluate or offer a solution ..... 

 

 

Thanks for comments

[birdi9]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

In other words the rent has never been paid to the owner of the house. If this is the real situation the landlord has done nothing wrong. 

The landlord claims that she hasn't received the rent for five months starting 17 months back. Why didn't she tell me then?

[birdi9]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

OP .....  did you ever watch mission impossible  !

Long long time ago

[Lacessit]

The OP will be tangled up in a legal system that will always favour the Thai landlord if he decides to fight it. The landlord will just say  he has not received any money, nor has he issued any receipts. The tenant's receipts are worthless.

Just leave, and preferably move to another city. The landlord can't chase you for money if he can't find you.

[birdi9]

1 hour ago, scottiejohn said:

Have you paid for the buffalo and her mum's land yet?

Such problems were minimal in my case. All scams were revealed to me on the day that I asked her to leave and the day prior to that. She had planned everything so well.

[birdi9]

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The OP will be tangled up in a legal system that will always favour the Thai landlord if he decides to fight it. The landlord will just say  he has not received any money, nor has he issued any receipts. The tenant's receipts are worthless.

Just leave, and preferably move to another city. The landlord can't chase you for money if he can't find you.

Thanks for recommendation. Those kinds of options don't come to my mind

[birdi9]

2 hours ago, madmen said:

The joys of renting in Thailand !! so you paid your girlfriend to give to a middle man who paid the Landlord?  Its no wonder it went missing . Lesson learned , pay landlord direct or via Bank. Your lady friend has scammed you along with the middle man

And the landlord as well? I learnt my lessons when my lady friend moved out. Have been getting solid receipts from the middleman since

[madmen]

25 minutes ago, birdi9 said:

The landlord claims that she hasn't received the rent for five months starting 17 months back. Why didn't she tell me then?

Easy the middle man could have told her you had to go overseas urgent or any other excuse. What does 5 months 17 months back mean?

Its all meaningless if you dont have real receipts

[DaRoadrunner]

Duh.... my brain hurts after reading this one. Some people are their own worst enemy. Always pay rent at a bank and keep the transaction receipt as proof. Always check the person you are paying is the real owner by asking to see the house registration.

 

Looks like you could report your lady friend to the police, though I doubt they would do anything, Thai police being what they are.

 

If the landlord will not speak with you direct, then they may also be in on this scam. The landlord may also be in breach of contract for failing to repair the roof. Amending a contract without your approval is also illegal.

 

You could run this story by a lawyer and see what he says. Half an hour advice costs little and you may learn something to your advantage.

 

Bottom line is.... It's a mess. I would be inclined to just move out and disappear.

 

 

[steven100]

47 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Bottom line is.... It's a mess. I would be inclined to just move out and disappear.

correct .....  and that's what I suggested earlier. OP has nothing to gain by staying with the mess ...  and everything to lose   !!!   move out quickly ....  quitely ...

[birdi9]

2 hours ago, birdi9 said:

Thanks for comments

No I gave them only the copies of the receipts. At this time I need to show my copy of the contract to a lawyer or someone similar to know where do I stand with this contract ? I read on internet that a law company near Makro has advertised free initial consultation and no fee if no win situation. This looks to good to be true. Any suggestion is appreciated.

[DaRoadrunner]

12 minutes ago, birdi9 said:

No I gave them only the copies of the receipts. At this time I need to show my copy of the contract to a lawyer or someone similar to know where do I stand with this contract ? I read on internet that a law company near Makro has advertised free initial consultation and no fee if no win situation. This looks to good to be true. Any suggestion is appreciated.

Bear in mind that in all dealings with lawyers, the only one guaranteed to make a profit is the lawyer.

 

[birdi9]

1 hour ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Duh.... my brain hurts after reading this one. Some people are their own worst enemy. Always pay rent at a bank and keep the transaction receipt as proof. Always check the person you are paying is the real owner by asking to see the house registration.

 

Looks like you could report your lady friend to the police, though I doubt they would do anything, Thai police being what they are.

 

If the landlord will not speak with you direct, then they may also be in on this scam. The landlord may also be in breach of contract for failing to repair the roof. Amending a contract without your approval is also illegal.

 

You could run this story by a lawyer and see what he says. Half an hour advice costs little and you may learn something to your advantage.

 

Bottom line is.... It's a mess. I would be inclined to just move out and disappear.

 

 

Thank you DaRoadrunner. Your comments are very helpful.

 

My lady friend has given to me an undertaking letter in Thai about her debt to me (also in English). I plan to use that at the right time with the police. Now though my priority is the landlord. I have given her a written notice of moving out late last month. I plan to go to the police in about a month's time to follow that up. I read somewhere that the owners should be given 60 days notice.

 

I have taken 19 photos of the damages to my furniture that I had bought them brand new, due to rain leakage, the paints of the ceiling that have come off in very bad way in at least 7 places, very very old gas stove and TV, etc etc. Today I went to a shop and printed them out in 2 sets. The owner acts so crudely in respect to her responsibilities and I am sure that she is in breach of the contract and her responsibilities.

 

I don't plan to run away. I see no option for myself except handling this in the best way that I can

 

Thanks again

[JimmyTheMook]

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

Judge Judy has these cases every week.  If no receipt from the Landlord or his/her legal rep then no comeback.

I am assuming this is just not a very long troll from another newbie!

troll - posssible of course.

 

But I've seen before here and in Australia rental situations become so complicated its close to impossible to untangle.

 

I had rental property for several years on Jomtien beach. I drew up a rental contract with additional clauses mainly specifying precicely how, when, to who the rent had to be paid and who has to hold receipts etc., plus a very specific clause that only 2 people were allowed to sleep on the premises plus 1 more but no more than 3 days a month.

 

And because i'd had many difficulties before (mostly farang) I went to check often. Within 1 month the actual tenant had gone new people in the house (6 of them) plus 'but my friend said it's OK, and he say his friend will pay money to 7/11' and more rubbish.

 

Luckily the office manager of the moo baan knew a more senior cop, I asked for his help, the new mob were gone the same day. I gave them some money fora cheap hotel for a few days.

 

More to the point I checked the history and details of the origina farang couple, he was a senior engineer at an oil company, his wife was a behavioral researcher, they looked OK, in reality they were unreliable and pigs.  I contacted the ol company the farang engineer worked for at Rayong and asked for their help to recover money for the unpaid rent and the damages to the house. They quickly sent a Thai liaison man, perfect english, he took photos and made a good list then asked me to sit down and discuss what money needed to be paid to fix everything, he was generous, we both signed the document, he was back the next day with a cheque for the full amount.

Second time around had serious farang tenant problems, first one was also an engineer from the Eastern seaboard.

 

[Lacessit]

10 hours ago, birdi9 said:

Thanks for recommendation. Those kinds of options don't come to my mind

You wanted advice. Given the position you are taking, you are going to need the best possible legal representation, and that may cost a lot more than the whole mess is worth. We all have to learn from our mistakes. I wish you well; however, I don't like your chances.

[thailand49]

Can't do a thing regardless of the law here!  since the place is overpriced I would start to look for another place and once done slowly get your stuff in order and walk off one night.  Get a smaller place for one and keep it that way except for short time.????

[baansgr]

lawyers dont come cheap, and my experience  of Hua  Hin lawyers is they are a waste of time,  even the recommended English one outside a big supermarket.... They were the worst ever. 

[justin case]

let me be the first to advise: run quickly to your home country

 

good, right ?