Border run = blacklisted for life?

[MeePeeMai]

Sorry for such a loooong  post but I wanted to warn others about "under-staying" in Malaysia.

I've been living here for almost a  year now on an O-A visa which I acquired from the Thai Embassy in the USA.  No real problems other than the usual Immigration frustrations when doing the TM-30 and 90 day reports etc (that's another story).

My O-A Visa had an "enter by date" which landed right in the middle of the Songkran festivities this year so I needed to do a border run out of Thailand and back in again so that I could get my second year out of the Visa.

I decided that flying in and out or even doing a road-trip across the border (during Songkran) was a bad idea ... so I booked a flight out from DMK to KUL a couple of days ago and the return trip was booked for the very next morning.  No big deal.  

I have no business in Malaysia and I did not want to stay there any longer than necessary so as not to spend any more money than I had to (just to get my passport stamped), so an overnighter it was.

The way my flights worked out, I landed in KUL at around 23:00 hours and was scheduled to depart at about 07:00 the next morning.  Even though it was not the cheapest room I could find, I booked a room at the Sama Sama hotel (which is in the KUL airport terminal) so that I could get some sleep and didn't need to get a taxi there and back from another hotel.

I landed and went through Immigration (no lines and nobody in front of me) where I was greeted by a kind male Immigration Officer who stamped my passport.  I explained to him that I was leaving early in the morning and would only be here overnight (staying at the sama sama hotel)  and asked him if it would be a problem to which he replied "No, no problem at all.  Have a good night's sleep sir."  I then thanked him and exited from the international arrivals area. 

After wandering around looking for the International departure area, I sat down in a small airport restaurant and had a bite to eat and checked my email etc.  After about an hour I headed back to go through Immigration so that I could get back into the terminal and head to my hotel room.

Upon arriving at the Immigration counter, there were only two (manned)  booths open (both female IO's) and I was the only passenger there at that moment.  I walked up to a mid to late 30's female IO who was avoiding eye contact with me.  I  presented my passport and my boarding pass to her.  I got the feeling that she was in a bad mood and that I was bothering her just by being there and I suddenly felt as if this might not go well as she looked at my passport and boarding pass for quite some time.

She finally looked up at me (she was seated), and asked me why I came to Malaysia.  I told her that I just came for 1 night and that I was leaving in the morning.  She then asked me if I had a hotel room to which I replied yes and showed her my hotel confirmation.

She then became very angry and started yelling at me asking "Why you come to Malaysia?  Why you not go to Singapore?  What you think this is?"   I tried to answer and explain that I didn't think it would be a problem but she wouldn't hear it and just kept yelling at me saying things like "You're abusing Malaysia, you should have gone to Singapore!  Don't come to Malaysia, go to Singapore... We don't like people like you coming here and abusing our country" etc... 

I then apologized sincerely several times and told her that it wouldn't happen again (as she just sat there glaring at me).
She then angrily yelled out  "I will make a note of this on the computer and if you ever do this again, YOU WILL NEVER BE ALLOWED TO COME BACK TO MALAYSIA AGAIN .. FOR EVER!.  DO YOU UNDERSTAND?  NEVER!  NEXT TIME YOU COME TO MALAYSIA YOU BETTER STAY HERE AT LEAST A FEW DAYS OR A FEW WEEKS OR YOU WILL BE BANNED FROM ENTERING MALAYSIA FOR YOUR LIFETIME!"

She then stamped me out and tossed my passport back over the counter to me.  It was embarrassing because by now there were several other passengers in line and I looked around and the whole place was at a standstill with passengers staring and listening to what had transpired.  Even the other female IO seemed shocked and was looking over my way with her mouth kind of open in disbelief.

I just thanked her and walked away.  

I didn't get any sleep that night and just laid awake wondering what in the world just happened.

I guess under-staying is a serious offense in Malaysia.  It must be worse than an overstay...  and getting threatened with a ban or being blacklisted for life (and having a bad mark put next to your name in their computer) was a total shocker to me.

I guess I'll scratch Malaysia (MM2H) off my plan "B" list (even though I can speak the language and qualify).  Any place that treats their guests like that will never see me again. 

She could have just smiled and simply said something like ... "It's a shame you couldn't stay here a little bit longer.  You should stay a while next time and see our beautiful city, and maybe enjoy a sightseeing tour" ... or something to that effect.

Coming back into DMK I was greeted by a very pleasant and smiling female IO who was nothing but kind and professional towards me (I know, I've read all the horror stories).  I can't tell you how relieved I was to be back on Thai soil again and headed home to see my wife.

 

Just thought I'd warn others not to "understay" in Malaysia or risk being blacklisted for life. 

 

 

Thank you all for the info you have given me over the past few years as I was preparing for my eventual retirement in Thailand.  I hope I can contribute to your forums in a positive manner (all the while appreciating the current environment and state of affairs we are being subjected to) and return the favor in one way or another.

[soi3eddie]

Back in the early 2000's it was cheaper to fly from London to Hat Yai via KL with BA than via BKK (that was before BA cancelled the KL route).

 

I must say that every time I entered Thailand from Malaysia (Air from KL at Hat Yai airport, border at Tak Bai or even the border at Sadao) it was always a welcome relief to be back in the LOS. IMO Malaysia is a miserable place.

[MeePeeMai]

2 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

Back in the early 2000's it was cheaper to fly from London to Hat Yai via KL with BA than via BKK (that was before BA cancelled the KL route).

 

I must say that every time I entered Thailand from Malaysia (Air from KL at Hat Yai airport, border at Tak Bai or even the border at Sadao) it was always a welcome relief to be back in the LOS. IMO Malaysia is a miserable place.

I agree.  I have spent much time all over Indonesia (my ex of 15 years is Indonesian) and I much prefer Indonesia and Indonesian people (and other places) to Malaysia any day.

[SEtonal]

I just watched a video where a Norwegian woman was pulled aside and questioned by New Zealand airport Immigration because she was only staying the country one day.   New Zealand also has money sniffing dogs.  The dogs can detect whether luggage currently has or used to have a large amount of money.

 

 

[Puchaiyank]

Bad experiences with unreasonable immigration officers cause me to dread having to deal with these people...graft, corruption, demanding, irrational behavior are all on display at one time or another predominately in Asian countries in my experience...????

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, Puchaiyank said:

Bad experiences with unreasonable immigration officers cause me to dread having to deal with these people...graft, corruption, demanding, irrational behavior are all on display at one time or another predominately in Asian countries in my experience...????

Far better to stay at home and not venture abroad, don't you agree?

[Puchaiyank]

59 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

Far better to stay at home and not venture abroad, don't you agree?

Not at all...still travel frequently with a healthy dose of angst...????

[ubonjoe]

Not visa for Thailand related. Moved to here.

[ukrules]

Wow, I would have reported her to her shift manager and made an official complaint on the spot.

[MeePeeMai]

28 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Wow, I would have reported her to her shift manager and made an official complaint on the spot.sense of

Yes, that is the first thing that came to mind but I did not see any supervisors or managers anywhere and I considered that maybe indeed I was already dealing with the supervisor (and I did not want to escalate things any further with her).

 

I know that there are cameras there but I doubt if there are any voice recordings so it would be my word against hers (a Muslim Malaysian IO with a Hijab vs a old white American) so I just figured I would let it go and walk away peacefully.

 

If I had any idea what was about to happen I would have recorded everything and then maybe I would have stood a better chance at making a formal complaint.

 

It is a shame though that they are given way too much power and authority over us with absolutely no supervision or sense of integrity and we poor fools have no recourse when under their thumbs (so to speak).  

[Caldera]

That's refreshing, an IO who actually wants you to stick around.

 

On a serious note though, thanks for your report! That's good to know.

[theoldgit]

Offensive post removed


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[Jip99]

7 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

Far better to stay at home and not venture abroad, don't you agree?

 

 

No !

 

 

I think he was just pointing out some of the difficulties that we all encounter from time to time.

[justin case]

9 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

Far better to stay at home and not venture abroad, don't you agree?

funny when it is immigration and they childish rules that force you to travel because such things could not be handled here in THAILAND

[justin case]

8 hours ago, ukrules said:

Wow, I would have reported her to her shift manager and made an official complaint on the spot.

it is never too late, is it ? 

[GalaxyMan]

10 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Bad experiences with unreasonable immigration officers cause me to dread having to deal with these people...graft, corruption, demanding, irrational behavior are all on display at one time or another predominately in Asian countries in my experience...????

Dealing with government bureaucrats in any country sucks. Small people with small minds who know they don't count for much and love to make life miserable for anyone that they can to make themselves feel better. Luckily, they're not all like that, so that when you do deal with a polite, friendly, helpful bureaucrat, you never forget it. Actually happened to me in Malaysia at the airport in KL where a very nice, professional Immigration lady helped me through a 4-hour nightmare of total bureaucratic stupidity.

[MeePeeMai]

I'm just curious, does anyone know if they actually have the authority to place such a ban or blacklist you on a whim like that?

 

And if a traveler was banned or blacklisted for one reason or another, could he/she still transit or do short layovers in that country between his ongoing flights (in the terminal of course) without exiting immigration?

 

By the way, I noticed that Immigration at DMK was using fingerprint scanners at the international arrivals booths.  I mentioned that I had not seen those before and the IO replied that they were new and that it was their first day using them.

[crazyk]

I been to malaysia lots of times either getting a 6 month multiple entry visa (when you could get them)& border runs,I got asked at kuah pp control about how many times I have visited malaysia,I said I enjoyed it there then she smiled & waved me on,I always stay a minimum 5 days as it don't give thai immigration an excuse to stop your entry

[mlmcleod]

11 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Bad experiences with unreasonable immigration officers cause me to dread having to deal with these people...graft, corruption, demanding, irrational behavior are all on display at one time or another predominately in Asian countries in my experience...????

Believe it or not Africa is far worse!

[moontang]

your appearance?

[MeePeeMai]

4 minutes ago, moontang said:

your appearance?

Negative, I always wear a nice collared shirt, slacks and shoes when I travel or have any interaction with Immigration.  Always shave and don't have any tattoos (that's just me being me, nothing against it either). 

[moontang]

40 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

I'm just curious, does anyone know if they actually have the authority to place such a ban or blacklist you on a whim like that?

 

And if a traveler was banned or blacklisted for one reason or another, could he/she still transit or do short layovers in that country between his ongoing flights (in the terminal of course) without exiting immigration?

 

By the way, I noticed that Immigration at DMK was using fingerprint scanners at the international arrivals booths.  I mentioned that I had not seen those before and the IO replied that they were new and that it was their first day using them.

I think you would be asking for trouble if transiting through a place you were blacklisted from.  I heard the US wont allow you in its airspace.

[moontang]

2 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

Negative, I always wear a nice collared shirt, slacks and shoes when I travel or have any interaction with Immigration.  Always shave and don't have any tattoos (that's just me being me, nothing against it either). 

was she much bigger than you?  whatabout skin color?  any indications that you are Jewish?

[MeePeeMai]

2 minutes ago, moontang said:

I think you would be asking for trouble if transiting through a place you were blacklisted from.  I heard the US wont allow you in its airspace.

Wow, that could make things very difficult.

[moontang]

I have a fairly high opinion of the Malaysians...specifically the females, who seem educated, but I wouldn't want to catch any of them on a bad day, that is for sure.

[MeePeeMai]

1 minute ago, moontang said:

was she much bigger than you?  whatabout skin color?  any indications that you are Jewish?

5555!  She was rather large, I'm white but not Jewish and I don't appear to be either (I am aware of their hatred for the jews). 

 

I felt that she might have a deep hatred for Americans or just Thailand in General maybe.  She kept telling me to go back to Thailand and next time I should go to Singapore, don't come to Malaysia etc.  She knew I flew in from DMK and she saw the O-A visa in my passport.

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

ow, that could make things very difficult.

No way she could blacklist you as you committed no crime.  there is no  law that states a person cannot stay in Malaysia only one day and has to stay more.

 

IMHO- the issue was that you are American and she is Muslim and she hates Americans and is taking out her hate on you personally.

 

While my first instinct would be to write a letter of complaint- I would not as it would simply feed the bigots and possibly make it worse for the next person. I. like you will avoid Malaysia, and vote with my feet.

Thank you for your report. No one should be treated that way and that includes the way some US immigration officials are treating people.

[Lacessit]

Having worked in Malaysia, I can honestly say I would not want to stay there for any longer than I had to.

I've always been amused by the Muslim men who disappear off to the local mosque for several hours at lunch time, leaving the women to run things. Perhaps that's why they are in a bad mood if you get them at the wrong time.

[moontang]

2 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

5555!  She was rather large, I'm white but not Jewish and I don't appear to be either (I am aware of their hatred for the jews). 

 

I felt that she might have a deep hatred for Americans or just Thailand in General maybe.  She kept telling me to go back to Thailand and next time I should go to Singapore, don't come to Malaysia etc.  She knew I flew in from DMK and she saw the O-A visa in my passport.

People transit through KL by the millions...unlucky for you....

[MeePeeMai]

I actually wanted to question her as to what I had done wrong but I couldn't get a word in as she just continued her verbal assault non stop for what seemed like a loooong time.

 

I was in shock, I just couldn't believe what was happening.  I remember thinking to myself, is this real?  Am I dreaming, this couldn't possibly be happening.

 

I'm almost 60 years old and have flown hundreds of times to many, many foreign countries and I have never even witnessed anything like that at an airport in my life.  I was stunned to say the least.