Denied (9th) retirement extension

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, Suzy said:

I was told three months had been increased to four months. When did it change to 2???

It was changed on March 1st when the new rules went into effect.

You have to have the 800k baht in the bank for 2 months and then for 3 months from the date you apply for the extension. After that you can lower the balance to 400k baht until you top up your account at least 2 months before you apply  your next extension.

[thailand49]

Before you do anything since you mentioned Jomtien it is rumored that the business office outside can help you with your problem?

[JackThompson]

25 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

Before you do anything since you mentioned Jomtien it is rumored that the business office outside can help you with your problem?

Also rumored there are usually better deals on Soi Bukow.

[Monkeyrobot]

11 hours ago, baansgr said:

Plenty of agents in Pattaya that can help providing your existing extension hasn't expired. Even if you are not residing in Pattaya a few days trip there it can be done. Songranq is upon us and immigration are closed for a number of days soon so you may need to do quickly

I thought the seasoning was to stop the agents, why would you keep 800K in the bank for 5 months & then not allow it to fall below 400K when you can go to an agent pay there fee & don’t have to worry about seasoning or money in the bank. I have done the right thing for the past 7 years and now get penalised for it. Maybe I will use an agent next renewal. 

[JackThompson]

4 minutes ago, Monkeyrobot said:

I thought the seasoning was to stop the agents, why would you keep 800K in the bank for 5 months & then not allow it to fall below 400K when you can go to an agent pay there fee & don’t have to worry about seasoning or money in the bank.

This is a common misperception, based on believing the public-relations spin around the changes.  Seasoning was always overlooked for immigration's agent-partner applications, and only ever existed to prevent loan-competition to immigration's agent-partners. 

 

The new seasoning rules (and loss of embassy letters) were designed to further limit any competition with immigration's agent-partners, and to drive up the percentage of honest in-person applicants who will be using agents in the future.

 

We saw a similar pattern with the "ED" crackdown, which turned out to be a way to triple the amount of under-the-table income earned for ED-extensions - for both legit and fake students.  Given the fact that agents are allowed to operate out in the open, it would appear that the fees they share must travel fairly high up the chain.

 

4 minutes ago, Monkeyrobot said:

I have done the right thing for the past 7 years and now get penalised for it. Maybe I will use an agent next renewal. 

At many of the largest offices, IOs don't "really" care if people meet qualifications, being more interested in the "extra money" possible from an agent. 

 

But, I would watch how things play out - when people go to submit applications next year, having used agents to fake the money this year.  Immigration and their agent-buddies would be in a fine position to demand a high-fee, at that point.

[Thailand Outcast]

37 minutes ago, Monkeyrobot said:

I thought the seasoning was to stop the agents, why would you keep 800K in the bank for 5 months & then not allow it to fall below 400K when you can go to an agent pay there fee & don’t have to worry about seasoning or money in the bank. I have done the right thing for the past 7 years and now get penalised for it. Maybe I will use an agent next renewal. 

Ahhh, but people will tell you the 800k method is the best method.  ????

 

I expect quite a few expats to move from the 800k method to using an agent.  It makes sense. 

[sfokevin]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Some people used a statement they are retired notarized by their embassy.

Does the US Embassy/CM US Consul notarize such a statement?... Does anyone have a template document?

[sfokevin]

3 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Does the US Embassy/CM US Consul notarize such a statement?... Does anyone have a template document?

Never mind... I found it... seems possible...

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/affidavit/

 

[frankpelagic]

Mike, thank you for the helpful post. Can I just ask you to enlarge on your  comment about "blowing up in my face". 

My concern is going into J last week and being refused, then returning a week later with a miraculous sum of 800k now being available, and the same staff dealing with me in J. Thanks

[ubonjoe]

11 hours ago, sfokevin said:

Never mind... I found it... seems possible...

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/affidavit/

You could complete that affidavit stating you are retired.

https://th.usembassy.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/2017/03/blank-affidavit-chiang-mai-032917.pdf

[ubonjoe]

I just cleaned out about 20 off topic, baiting bickering and etc posts.

In particular the off topic posts and replies about investments, interest rates and etc. 

[Mike Teavee]

39 minutes ago, frankpelagic said:

Mike, thank you for the helpful post. Can I just ask you to enlarge on your  comment about "blowing up in my face". 

My concern is going into J last week and being refused, then returning a week later with a miraculous sum of 800k now being available, and the same staff dealing with me in J. Thanks

Hi Frank,

 

I can't speak from experience but as an example there have been threads on TVF of BMs getting a Visa via an agent, moving districts but having to extend in their old district as the "Relationship" with the Agent/Immigration was there.

 

IMHO (again, no experience) I think if you have the 800K in the bank & are happy to meet the post extension requirement (leave it there for 3 months & go no lower than 400k for the next 9) you will have nothing to worry about... If you don't have the 800K then (again IMHO) you are going to spend your time here at the mercy of the Agent & their contacts in Immigration - If either of these change you could find yourself up the proverbial creek without the proverbial paddle... 

 

Good Luck, if you do get really stuck post here & listen to what UbonJoe says... 

 

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

27 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I just cleaned out about 20 off topic, baiting bickering and etc posts.

In particular the off topic posts and replies about investments, interest rates and etc. 

Apologies Joe, we did stray well off topic but I do believe it's a useful debate to have so have started a new thread here... 

 

MTV

[phuketrichard]

22 hours ago, frankpelagic said:

The previous 8 extensions have been approved on the strength of my Australian bank statements and a meaningless stat dec from the Australian embassy. I took my tablet with me to the Jomtien office and offered to show them my banking in real time. I can prove an annual income of 3-4 million.   They werent interested in seeing definitive proof of income, stating that my income should be seen to go into  my bank account. The website does not state this, only saying proof of income required.

I contacted a visa agent who said he could cirvumvent the system for which he wanted 27,000 baht to include a multiple re-entry visa.  This is the last place in the world I want to be involved in any thing illegal, so forget that.

So again, thanks for all th e well meaning advice, picking through the bones I think going to Penang to get some sort of visa might be the go.

so do it on ur own

visa 1,900....multiple re entry 3,800

total 5, 700....agent 27,000

so its costing u really only 21,300 NOT to have 800,000 in ur THAI bank for 5 months and 400,000 for 7

you figure it out

or go to a neighboring embassy an get a new non o 90 day visa and new extension 2 months later.

[superal]

3 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

so do it on ur own

visa 1,900....multiple re entry 3,800

total 5, 700....agent 27,000

so its costing u really only 21,300 NOT to have 800,000 in ur THAI bank for 5 months and 400,000 for 7

you figure it out

or go to a neighboring embassy an get a new non o 90 day visa and new extension 2 months later.

I did have the 800k retirement visa but up for renewal next month . I have decided to to return to the UK for a month to see my family and whilst there get a non o based on my UK state pension and no proof of other monies needed . The 90 day border crossing and 1800 baht is a downer but I plan to  actually leave Thailand for a week or so and visit other nearby countries . Have a friend who does this and looks forward to his 

solo mini hols every 3 months . BTW , someone told me that an agent quoted him 28,000bt for a new retirement extension , 2 months ago .  These next few months will be a telling time for many who have to renew their visas . Reckon there will be quite a few who are not up to date with the new rules .

 

[murraynz]

23 hours ago, Monkeyrobot said:

I thought the seasoning was to stop the agents, why would you keep 800K in the bank for 5 months & then not allow it to fall below 400K when you can go to an agent pay there fee & don’t have to worry about seasoning or money in the bank. I have done the right thing for the past 7 years and now get penalised for it. Maybe I will use an agent next renewal. 

not everybody uses an agent for 'devious reasons'.. i think it saves a lot of time and overcomes the need to try and satisfy the 'ever changing' requirements, ie, differing interpretations by the imm officers.

[MeePeeMai]

On 4/11/2019 at 11:26 PM, claynlr said:

I am wondering the same for an O-A I will soon apply for at the Chicago Consulate. Proof Of Retirement is asked for. I am retired but do not have a company pension nor am I receiving social security yet. Any one that has applied at Chicago know what they accept? Sent an e-mail but they never answered.

I don't know about Chicago but I do know that The Thai Embassy in Washington D.C. does not require "proof of retirement" just proof of adequate savings and/or an income certificate (if you have a pension). 

 

I got my multiple entry O-A there by simply following the instructions on their website and mailing my passport, IRA and bank statements, $200.00 money order, pics and forms they required directly to them.  No proof of retirement.  It was easy, no problem.

 

From their website:

 

Validity of a visa: multiple entries

***A visa becomes effective from the date of issuance***

Required Documents: (Required 2 sets; 1 original and 1 copy)

1. Your actual Passport or Travel Document. (Passport or Travel Document must be valid for at least 18 months    and contain at least ONE completely empty visa page).
2. Visa application form completely filled out (black and blue ink only) (Download)
3. Addition Application form (Download)
4. Medical certificate showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14(B.E. 2535) certificate shall be valid for not more than three months (Download)
5. Two photo’s passport-size photographs (2″x2″) (photocopy or photo taken from Photostat will not be accepted). Photographs must have a light color background with a full- face view of the person without wearing a hat or dark glasses. Photos must be taken within 6 months.
6. Bank statement or evidence of adequate finance showing a deposit of the amount equal to and not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthly income totaling not less than 800,000 Baht In the case of submitting a bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank (an original copy) is required
7.  Letter of verification stating that the applicant has no criminal record (verification have to valid for not more than three months and must be issued from a state or Federal Bureau of Investigation only. Online criminal record without authorizer’s signature is unacceptable )

In the case where the accompanying spouse is not eligible to apply for the Category ‘O-A’ (Long Stay) visa, he or she will be considered for temporary stay under Category ‘O’ visa. A marriage certificate must be provided as evidence

Processing time : (with completed documents)
In person   5 business days
By mail      minimum 15 business days

 

 

Edited April 13, 2019 by MeePeeMai

[RJRS1301]

On 4/12/2019 at 6:14 PM, ubonjoe said:

It is required at the consulates in Savannakhet and Penang.

In Vientiane is not needed but you need a police clearance and a medical certificate.

When will the government make sure the same rules apply in all Immigration Offices/Entry points and Embassies and Consulates?? Or am I being Pollyanna??

[RJRS1301]

On 4/14/2019 at 7:43 AM, MeePeeMai said:

I don't know about Chicago but I do know that The Thai Embassy in Washington D.C. does not require "proof of retirement" just proof of adequate savings and/or an income certificate (if you have a pension). 

 

I got my multiple entry O-A there by simply following the instructions on their website and mailing my passport, IRA and bank statements, $200.00 money order, pics and forms they required directly to them.  No proof of retirement.  It was easy, no problem.

 

From their website:

 

Validity of a visa: multiple entries

***A visa becomes effective from the date of issuance***

Required Documents: (Required 2 sets; 1 original and 1 copy)

1. Your actual Passport or Travel Document. (Passport or Travel Document must be valid for at least 18 months    and contain at least ONE completely empty visa page).
2. Visa application form completely filled out (black and blue ink only) (Download)
3. Addition Application form (Download)
4. Medical certificate showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14(B.E. 2535) certificate shall be valid for not more than three months (Download)
5. Two photo’s passport-size photographs (2″x2″) (photocopy or photo taken from Photostat will not be accepted). Photographs must have a light color background with a full- face view of the person without wearing a hat or dark glasses. Photos must be taken within 6 months.
6. Bank statement or evidence of adequate finance showing a deposit of the amount equal to and not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthly income totaling not less than 800,000 Baht In the case of submitting a bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank (an original copy) is required
7.  Letter of verification stating that the applicant has no criminal record (verification have to valid for not more than three months and must be issued from a state or Federal Bureau of Investigation only. Online criminal record without authorizer’s signature is unacceptable )

In the case where the accompanying spouse is not eligible to apply for the Category ‘O-A’ (Long Stay) visa, he or she will be considered for temporary stay under Category ‘O’ visa. A marriage certificate must be provided as evidence

Processing time : (with completed documents)
In person   5 business days
By mail      minimum 15 business days

 

 

Embassy in Canberra only required proof of savings/investments. 

Completely failed to inform requirement for monies to be transferred into Thai Bank of course

[ThaiBunny]

12 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Embassy in Canberra only required proof of savings/investments. 

Completely failed to inform requirement for monies to be transferred into Thai Bank of course

What requirement is that? It's only for an extension, not a grant of visa surely?

[jacko45k]

23 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

When will the government make sure the same rules apply in all Immigration Offices/Entry points and Embassies and Consulates?? Or am I being Pollyanna??

Which government would that be?

[Black Bird]

Hi, 

i notice a few comments about banks accounts, setting money aside for retirement, so I hope this is the right  place to ask. can your bank account be a joint account with your Thai wife ? 

 

Black Bird 

[KhunFred]

On 4/12/2019 at 10:30 AM, ubonjoe said:

It seems you missed the topics about proving your income. You could of gotten a stat declaration up to the 7th of January at the Australian embassy that would of been valid for 6 months.

The new requirement are in this amendment to the police order. Amendment to police order 138/2557 Revising clauses 2.18 and 2.22 to include options for proof of income.

Have you transferred the 800k baht into a Thai bank yet?

If you get a non-o visa to start you extensions again and could show a couple of months of 65k baht going into a Thai bank account from abroad you could use that to apply for the extension.

 

You will need to show money in a bank to get it. You will need to show some kind of proof you are retired.

 

On 4/12/2019 at 10:08 AM, frankpelagic said:

 

I contacted a visa agent who said he could cirvumvent the system for which he wanted 27,000 baht to include a multiple re-entry visa.  This is the last place in the world I want to be involved in any thing illegal, so forget that.

So again, thanks for all th e well meaning advice, picking through the bones I think going to Penang to get some sort of visa might be the go.

Amazed that there are still people who think that using an agent is "illegal". Jomtien Immigration even has an agent with an office on site. Bribery is business. That's all you need to know. Immigration is well aware that most will not be able to satisfy the new requirements. They are pushing everyone toward agents while talking as if they are not allowed. Astonishing.

[Orton Rd]

If the agent pays an officer a bribe to overlook the money requirements and the officer does so merely because he is being bribed, then that IS illegal. Bribery is corruption, it's an illegal business. I will leave rather than pay bent officers and parasitical agents, it's not that great here after all.

[burlap]

God, I'm confused!  For the past 6 years I just took my income statement I got from the US consulate in Bangkok to the immigration office, along with some forms, picture, passport, and some copies to the immigration office where I waited around for several hours to talk to one of the nice ladies in a military uniform and, voila, a visa extension for another year in paradise would appear in my passport.

 

But I can't do that anymore because the US consulate won't verify my income.  So this Feb, when I qualified for Social Security, I applied online.  I also opened a special Bangkok Bank account for the Social Security deposits. Almost 4 months later (last week) I got a call from a Social Security agent in the Philippines to verify my info was correct. He told me the US office would contact me in another 4 months (end of September) and I would be getting a payment retroactive to the beginning of the year.  

 

The problem is my visa expires near the end of July so I will not have any deposits in that account yet.  I have about 400,000 Baht in another Thai bank account, and I have a third account that has approx. 70,000 Baht deposit from the US every month for the last 3 years (but the balance is low - I pay the bills with this account.)  Another problem with the 400K account is that the money was money I transferred from the third account, so it probably can't be used because the money came from Thailand.

 

So it looks like I'm not going to be able to renew my visa, right?

 

I met a woman who has a small shop Near the Phloen Chit BTS station.  She says if I give her 20,000 Baht she can make these problems go away and get me my extension.  She swears everything is on the up & up, but I've got my suspicions.  

 

Any suggestions?

 

PS I have a Thai wife and I'm partially disabled by a chronic illness.  I have very little money and no place to stay in America.  I'm afraid the trip might kill me.  My wife is also my caregiver, but she has no US visa and probably can't get one.  The thought of traveling without her not only makes me lonely but terrifies me.

[ubonjoe]

9 hours ago, burlap said:

I have about 400,000 Baht in another Thai bank account, and I have a third account that has approx. 70,000 Baht deposit from the US every month for the last 3 years (but the balance is low - I pay the bills with this account.) 

You could show that  the 400k baht has been in the bank for a least 2 months to apply for an extension of stay based upon marriage.

If the 70k baht has been transferred from abroad you can use proof of it going into your account  to apply for the extension. You would need a bank statement showing the 70k baht going into the account for 12 months and a letter from the bank to confirm your account is valid.

 

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, Black Bird said:

Hi, 

i notice a few comments about banks accounts, setting money aside for retirement, so I hope this is the right  place to ask. can your bank account be a joint account with your Thai wife ? 

 

Black Bird 

The 800,000 for a retirement extension must be in an account in your own name. 

[carbon007]

On 4/12/2019 at 7:25 AM, SEtonal said:

If you have the 800k in your Thai account and only need more time for seasoning, do one of the following:

1.  Check to see if an agent can get the extension for you. (Immigration would conveniently overlook the seasoning issue.)

2. Do a simple in/out border run and come back to Thailand with a 30 day visa-exempt stamp.  (You can extend for 30 more days if needed.)  You would then need to get a new Non-O visa from your Immigration Office, which is not a problem at some offices but a problem at other offices.

3.  If you want to get a 60 day Tourist Visa, do not go to Cambodia -- they are very difficult to deal with.  An appointment is needed to enter the Thai Consulate in Vientiane and may require scheduling as much as three weeks in advance.  No appointment needed at Savannakhet, but printed proof of 20k baht in a bank account is required, so bring an updated bank statement and updated bank book.

4.  A Non-O visa can be obtained in Savannakhet with proof of retirement and proof of financials.  A few weeks before the Non-O expires, go to Immigration and request a 1 year extension based on retirement.

5.  Get a visa from Australia, which I assume is your home country.

 

Is this really true? That thai immigration issues Non-Immigrant O-A visas? Thought it was not possible as have to be issued by a thai embassy?

 

 'You would then need to get a new Non-O visa from your Immigration Office, which is not a problem at some offices but a problem at other offices.'

[jacko45k]

9 minutes ago, carbon007 said:

Is this really true? That thai immigration issues Non-Immigrant O-A visas? Thought it was not possible as have to be issued by a thai embassy?

 

 'You would then need to get a new Non-O visa from your Immigration Office, which is not a problem at some offices but a problem at other offices.'

What actually  happens is the Visa Waiver entry stay permit can be converted to a Non-Imm-O entry in country by immigration. It is not a usable Non-Imm O Visa, but an already used one. Usually this is a precursor to obtaining a one year extension and affords the seasoning time in country. 

Edited May 16, 2019 by jacko45k

[SEtonal]

21 minutes ago, carbon007 said:

Is this really true? That thai immigration issues Non-Immigrant O-A visas? Thought it was not possible as have to be issued by a thai embassy?

 

 'You would then need to get a new Non-O visa from your Immigration Office, which is not a problem at some offices but a problem at other offices.'

O-A =/= O

O-A is not O.

Immigration can only issue an O.  Immigration cannot issue an OA.  An OA must be obtained at a Thai Embassy or Consulate in your country of citizenship or permanent residency.