Do you believe in God and why

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

Any organized religion that claims it has the Monopoly on Truth and the only way to salvation, should be taken with more than a wagon-load of salt...

I would include organized non-religious entities and individuals that profess their truth to be the only truth. 

[talahtnut]

On 3/29/2020 at 5:58 AM, Chazar said:

and  your  evidence for this is?

He is the evidence, nothing exists without

consciousness of the self. Belief in a decent

system is all we have, until one day, science

reaches far beyond human imagination and

mathematics.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

He is the evidence, nothing exists without

consciousness of the self. Belief in a decent

system is all we have, until one day, science

reaches far beyond human imagination and

mathematics.

Actually there is evidence of the existence of the soul, i have even tried to explain it to exhaustion, but it mostly fell on deaf ears.

Some people believe only in what they can perceive with their physical senses, and many of them are unable to think outside the box.

Well, whatever makes you happy, i say ????

[Skeptic7]

4 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Actually there is evidence of the existence of the soul

Actually...there is not. 

[Sunmaster]

9 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Actually...there is not. 

The very fact that you're typing this is proof that there is. ????

[Peter Denis]

16 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

The very fact that you're typing this is proof that there is. ????

Another word for 'soul' is consciousness.

It is not part of the physical body.

Wherever in nature a shaping process is in progress, consciousness or soul, must always be present. Every animal, every plant, every human being has a soul.

[mauGR1]

14 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Another word for 'soul' is consciousness.

It is not part of the physical body.

Wherever in nature a shaping process is in progress, consciousness or soul, must always be present. Every animal, every plant, every human being has a soul.

According to R. Steiner ( i trust him) the "soul body" can be differentiated in 3 parts. Sentient, rational, and conscious. They are compenetrating each other, and compenetrating the physical body.

The most evolved mammals are just sentient souls, governed by a kind of "group soul", as they are not fully conscious of their individuality as spiritual beings.

Edited April 4, 2020 by mauGR1

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

The most evolved mammals are just a sentient souls, governed by a kind of "group soul", as they are not fully conscious of their individuality as spiritual beings.

Mmmm, I never did think of Trump-supporters as 'the most evolved mammals' but you do have a point there... ????

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Mmmm, I never did think of Trump-supporters as 'the most evolved mammals' but you do have a point there... ????

LOL, yep, surely there is a lot to be discussed about "group souls", once we have agreed that they exist.

Tribalism, nationalism, patriotism, even the highest and selfless ideals can be described as forms of "group souls".

[talahtnut]

22 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Actually there is evidence of the existence of the soul, i have even tried to explain it to exhaustion, but it mostly fell on deaf ears.

Some people believe only in what they can perceive with their physical senses, and many of them are unable to think outside the box.

Well, whatever makes you happy, i say ????

The soul, indeed I agree with you, too many

strange examples to deny its existence, and

that of reincarnation. Every school boy knows

energy can not be destroyed or made, the brain

dies and rots but its energy, which is information

is released into the space about us as a soul.

 

 

 

[garrya]

Well, haven't been able to read the 483 pages of this thread.

"Believing" in God sums it up. When you would "believe" it rather than "know" it, is already f...d up.

I am tired of this old man sitting on clouds holding silly man-made agricultural tools. 

Jesus was the Houdini of that era fooling people with clever tricks using doublers and so on. The fact that conmen from 2000 years ago can affect people's minds even in the 21st century is showing how stupid we humans are.

[Peter Denis]

13 hours ago, garrya said:

....

"Believing" in God sums it up. When you would "believe" it rather than "know" it, is already f...d up.

...

 

There are several stages of 'knowing'.

1. I know (in the sense of 'I can reproduce the information')

2. I understand (more than just being able to reproduce the information, but being aware of the principles behind it)

3. I can (being able to apply the knowledge/understanding)

4. I do (not only being able but actually applying the knowledge/understanding)

5. I am (having internalized the knowledge/understanding, so that it shines through in everything you do).

Note: in dutch language its expressed as 'weten - kennen - kunnen - doen - zijn'

= = = = =

But in which of these stages does one place 'believe' (not in the sense of just an opinion like I believe it's going to rain today, but more as 'faith' that there is a reason we are here)?

The sceptic would probably position it in stage 0 > as he disgards it as an irrational emotional way of 'knowing' not based on hard facts and data.

A spiritual inclined person would probably position it beyond stages 1 and 2 > as it is the driver of his actions.

For an 'enlightened' person it would be stage 5, believing and being being the same for him.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Peter Denis

[Sunmaster]

17 hours ago, garrya said:

Well, haven't been able to read the 483 pages of this thread.

"Believing" in God sums it up. When you would "believe" it rather than "know" it, is already f...d up.

I am tired of this old man sitting on clouds holding silly man-made agricultural tools. 

Jesus was the Houdini of that era fooling people with clever tricks using doublers and so on. The fact that conmen from 2000 years ago can affect people's minds even in the 21st century is showing how stupid we humans are.

Your interpretation of Jesus' life is quite funny and I somehow agree with your dislike of the word 'believing'.
As I often said on this thread, I prefer to know, and when it comes to knowing God, there are several options available. As long as you don't expect to quantify Spirit or observe God in a test tube, you already have all you need to find the Truth within yourself. 

Choose a spiritual practice that resonates with you, stick with it and you will surely get to know yourself first, and God along with that.

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Choose a spiritual practice that resonates with you, stick with it and you will surely get to know yourself first, and God along with that.

Uhm, from the tone of his post, i would guess that he's not likely to heed your advice

[transam]

13 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Your interpretation of Jesus' life is quite funny and I somehow agree with your dislike of the word 'believing'.
As I often said on this thread, I prefer to know, and when it comes to knowing God, there are several options available. As long as you don't expect to quantify Spirit or observe God in a test tube, you already have all you need to find the Truth within yourself. 

Choose a spiritual practice that resonates with you, stick with it and you will surely get to know yourself first, and God along with that.

Can you ask your God why he touched his Earth with the Corona virus, just, so we can all understand his/her motive....????

[Sunmaster]

Just now, transam said:

Can you ask your God why he touched his Earth with the Corona virus, just, so we can all understand his/her motive....????

"My God" is everyone's and everything's God. Lol
Why don't you ask him yourself? I don't have an exclusive connection....

[Sunmaster]

6 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Uhm, from the tone of his post, i would guess that he's not likely to heed your advice

Well, one can sow the seed and hope for the best ???? 

[transam]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

"My God" is everyone's and everything's God. Lol
Why don't you ask him yourself? I don't have an exclusive connection....

Do you have his email address ....?   ????

[Peter Denis]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Do you have his email address ....?   ????

Take a look in your Ignore List ????

[Elad]

On 4/3/2020 at 4:05 PM, mauGR1 said:

Some people believe only in what they can perceive with their physical senses, and many of them are unable to think outside the box.

And some people need to step outside their box and look at the bigger picture, it's not all about us humans you know. If you can somewhat comprehend the vastness of the universe and the time scales involved, then you begin to understand our insignificance. We really are a speck on a speck on a speck. Put it another way, if our solar system just suddenly vaporised, then the effects it would have on the rest of the universe would be equivalent to the effects on the pacific ocean if we were to take a thimble full of sea water from it, basically no effects whatsoever.

 

Then there's the huge time scales involved. When we say 13.7 billion years, to most people its just a number and goes straight over your head, but if you break these times scales down into human lifetimes (using 100 years) then you can get some sense of those the huge periods of time.

 

Us humans are born into a universe that's been evolving for at least 13 billion years, and life for at least 3 billion years, so it's no surprise that a large percentage of us will choose to believe that the beauty we see around us comes from something supernatural (a creator), but when you step outside the box, you get a sense of how matter and the fundamental forces, given long periods of time, can actually create what we see around us. 

 

Live life to the full, don't expect another one. ???? 

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Elad said:

but when you step outside the box, you get a sense of how matter and the fundamental forces, given long periods of time, can actually create what we see around us. 

I read somewhere, perhaps you can confirm or deny, that if humans, with all their scientific knowledge, were put in charge of the solar system, they would mess it up very quickly.

.. And still some people refuse to take into consideration the existence of an intelligent design..

.. Of course i think there may be thousands of life forms in the universe, but that has nothing to do with the existence or not of the Spirit.

Actually i suspect that time and space are just illusions, which are going to be perceived in a different way once we are not tied to our physical body.

[Sunmaster]

4 minutes ago, Elad said:

And some people need to step outside their box and look at the bigger picture, it's not all about us humans you know. If you can somewhat comprehend the vastness of the universe and the time scales involved, then you begin to understand our insignificance. We really are a speck on a speck on a speck. Put it another way, if our solar system just suddenly vaporised, then the effects it would have on the rest of the universe would be equivalent to the effects on the pacific ocean if we were to take a thimble full of sea water from it, basically no effects whatsoever.

 

Then there's the huge time scales involved. When we say 13.7 billion years, to most people its just a number and goes straight over your head, but if you break these times scales down into human lifetimes (using 100 years) then you can get some sense of those the huge periods of time.

 

Us humans are born into a universe that's been evolving for at least 13 billion years, and life for at least 3 billion years, so it's no surprise that a large percentage of us will choose to believe that the beauty we see around us comes from something supernatural (a creator), but when you step outside the box, you get a sense of how matter and the fundamental forces, given long periods of time, can actually create what we see around us. 

 

Live life to the full, don't expect another one. ???? 

Yes, we are very very small compared to the vastness of the universe and time, but the way I see it, each one of us carries the divine spark and therefore we are just as important as any other thing or being in God's creation. At no point in time or space are we separate from God. Our consciousness is a reflection of God's consciousness.
Do you know what a true hologram is? If you take any small part of the whole picture, that part still carries the whole picture within it. Even if you take that part and cut it in a million more pieces, each piece will still contain the information of the whole picture. 
That's how I see it and that's why I can not subscribe to the believe that we are insignificant. The only thing that is insignificant compared to what we really are, is our ego. It's the one thing that keeps us in the box, making us feel that we are limited and separated from All-There-Is.

As to your last sentence....I don't see why one can not believe in reincarnation and still live life to the fullest? One doesn't exclude the other.

 

[ravip]

Up to now, what has the dear Lord done to save us from the COVID-19?

The people fighting at the front line are taxed to the maximum, citizens are locked down, economies are falling.  Only thing that's prospering seems to be the blame games, that are rampant and free.

Will the answers to our prayers come soon?

[Surelynot]

God, no.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, ravip said:

Up to now, what has the dear Lord done to save us from the COVID-19?

The people fighting at the front line are taxed to the maximum, citizens are locked down, economies are falling.  Only thing that's prospering seems to be the blame games, that are rampant and free.

Will the answers to our prayers come soon?

You should be grateful that you are alive, have a roof and some food, and someone to talk to.

When you stop complaining, you become able to understand more.

As for the blame games, why blame something that you don't believe exists ?

Btw, i am not blaming you, with respect, you appear a bit confused.

[ravip]

11 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

You should be grateful that you are alive, have a roof and some food, and someone to talk to.

When you stop complaining, you become able to understand more.

As for the blame games, why blame something that you don't believe exists ?

Btw, i am not blaming you, with respect, you appear a bit confused.

Sorry, maybe I was not clear enough.

It was not a complaint, just that I feel for the poor people who are fighting to save lives at the risk of their own. 100's dying, for no fault of their own.

The blame games I referred to? It's the game the top countries (and their followers) are playing amid all this chaos - nothing between you and me.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, ravip said:

Sorry, maybe I was not clear enough.

It was not a complaint, just that I feel for the poor people who are fighting to save lives at the risk of their own. 100's dying, for no fault of their own.

The blame games I referred to? It's the game the top countries (and their followers) are playing amid all this chaos - nothing between you and me.

Thanks for explaining, but there is really too much to be discussed.

I was mainly referring to your not so veiled attempt to blame God, but God is supposed to be beyond our interpretation of good and bad.

This virus, as in the mainstream media interpretation, is depicted as a monstrous evil, yet, 10 years from now it could be seen as an important lesson for the whole of humankind.

Apparently our lifestyle is unsustainable, and it wasn't God who forced us to do that way.

[Elad]

28 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I read somewhere, perhaps you can confirm or deny, that if humans, with all their scientific knowledge, were put in charge of the solar system, they would mess it up very quickly.

To describe mathematically the exact workings of our solar system, then you would need to incorporate all bodies within the solar system, this would include all the millions of asteroids and comets, all the moons of every planet and all the planets, which all have subtle effects on each other and that would be an impossible task. However, using Newton's laws of motion/gravity we can predict where all the large bodies such as planets and moons will be at a given time, but it doesn't describe the subtle effects from other object. Newton's laws work because more than 99% of the solar systems mass is in the sun, so we can describe the motions to more than 99% accuracy.

 

We can predict events such as solar and lunar eclipses for thousands of years in the future, and thousand of years in the past, which line up with events seen by the ancients.

 

Our predictions and mathematics is limited because we live in a imperfect universe where straight lines and true spheres don't exist. Think about the value of pi 3.14159 to 5 decimal places, pi is an irrational decimal number and its decimal places go to infinity, the more decimal places you use in calculations the closer you get to perfect, but you'll never reach it.        

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Elad said:

Our predictions and mathematics is limited because we live in a imperfect universe where straight lines and true spheres don't exist. Think about the value of pi 3.14159 to 5 decimal places, pi is an irrational decimal number and its decimal places go to infinity, the more decimal places you use in calculations the closer you get to perfect, but you'll never reach it.   

Thanks for the detailed explanation, the human intelligence is impressive, just think about how much intelligence is out there.

Personally, the notion that humans "own" intelligence is ludicrous imho.

[talahtnut]

Going inside for some grub tonight, I caught

a film, about 3 med students in a hospital

experimenting on themselves in turn with

flatlining, each for 2 or 3 mins. Each described

an existance free of the body, able to move

and see things, altogether a pleasant experience.

The film seems firmly based on many peoples

genuine accounts of near death observations,

recorded by scientists.

I reckon you lot ought to atone for your sins now

before you kick the bucket..me too.

Its gettin real.