Do you believe in God and why

[teatime101]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Jesus believed in swords, ergo he'd be for being armed now.

What a lot of tripe. We have no idea what 'the figure who is generally known as Jesus' actually said or did.

 

'believed in swords'... this is the kind of nonsense American gun lovers dream up. Jesus in 2020 would have open-carried an assault rifle and would definitely vote for Trump. /s

 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by teatime101

[fredwiggy]

10 hours ago, teatime101 said:

You might like to believe that, but it's a huge presumption. Every 'Christian' either follows his own concept of 'Christianity' or that which he has been taught or brainwashed to believe. There is no such thing as 'Christianity' per se. There are as many variations on the theme as there are believers.

 

Don't get me started on the extreme right evangelical movement in the USA, the one that believes in the right to walk around the street with an assault rifle.

Then don't get started, because you're ill informed about both topics. Christianity is following Christ., the definition.............Christianity is an Abrahamic monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. Its adherents, known as Christians, believe that Jesus is the Christ, whose coming as the messiah was prophesied in the Hebrew Bible, called the Old Testament in Christianity, and chronicled in the New Testament. And walking around with a gun is a right in the United States. Read up on what type of person commits hate crimes, and shoots up schools and churches. It's not your average hunter or gun enthusiast, but a deeply disturbed individual that uses a gun because he's a

[fredwiggy]

9 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

I've been writing on this thread since the very beginning, for over a year now, so I think I'm quite familiar with the way the other regulars think. But you're right, I will better speak about myself only.

Do you know the parable of the 4 blind men? They come across an elephant, so one touches the trunk and says "Oh, this animal is like a big snake". Another one touches the leg and says "No, it's more like a tree trunk". The third touches the ear and says "You're both wrong...it's like a big leaf". The last one touches the tail and says "You're all wrong, it's like a little broom". Now, please don't take it literally! ????
It just means that all those religions you listed there are doing their best with the info they got to make sense and explain that which is unexplainable. Who is right? All of them and no one. 

I didn't go to Sunday school or learned from priests or read the bible to know what I know. I firmly believe that the only way to truly know the Supreme Being is through direct experience. Everything else is second hand knowledge and is unreliable and misleading in the worst case.

Your statement that Buddha is sitting in Hell is probably the best example for that.

I know where you're coming from in terms of mentality and are convinced you're on the only "true" path. Reality is different though. Can you accept that a person can be a believer in a Higher Power, without following any religion?

 

 

Yes, as I don't follow a religion, but Christianity, believing Jesus died for our sins and he is the path to God. I started out as a Catholic, and basically was born again as a Christian. Catholic religion has people praying to Mary and saints, which isn't necessary because they are humans. You only need to pray to Gog. Some religions are money based also, and that's greed. Some ,like Catholicism, have a lot of money from donators that believe in the religion, so whether that's right or wrong is moot. Yes, people can certainly have a personal relationship with God without religion. This topic wasn't about religion and some have thought some are posting about them, but it was a question, Do you believe in God and why. My answer was yes, and because of faith.

[fredwiggy]

9 hours ago, teatime101 said:

What a lot of tripe. We have no idea what 'the figure who is generally known as Jesus' actually said or did.

 

'believed in swords'... this is the kind of nonsense American gun lovers dream up. Jesus in 2020 would have open-carried an assault rifle and would definitely vote for Trump. /s

 

 

There are books that contain Jesus' teachings, that were written by his Apostles, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. You can get them at any book store. If you are indeed an atheist, why spend so much time and energy trying to convince others that there isn't a God? Just say, I, myself,  don't believe in God because...................These are the main reasons people turn away from God...................................

Parents

Research shows time and again the significant and important role that parents play in religious identity—particularly fathers. Homes in which only one parent participates in religion, or where it is not strongly reinforced, are a strong factor in a child’s eventual decline into nonbelief.

Education

Going to college has been shown to play a large factor in the rejection of religious beliefs. Being challenged with new ideas and concepts that contradict religious beliefs factors into deconversion.

Other Cultures/Religions

The experience of encountering people from other cultures and religious beliefs also contributes to deconversion. Often, these experiences are also linked to college. Meeting people who think and act differently can be challenging to a person’s long-held convictions.

Misfortune

The loss of belief is tied to the experience of pain or death in life. Unanswered prayers and the typical “Why?” questions surrounding the experience of suffering and pain lead some to reject their religious upbringing.

Friends, Colleagues, and Lovers

Relationships, whether work-based, romantic, or other, with people who are not of the same religion or who are not religious have also played a significant role in deconversion.

Politics

Embracing progressive political ideology and being turned off by religious right-wing political parties contributes to the rejection of religion. Research also indicates that the more religious people are, the more likely they will be right wing in their political beliefs. Therefore, someone who tends toward progressive political ideals finds religious right-wing groups and institutions stifling to their beliefs, which results in walking away from that belief system.

Sex

Three main factors play a role in deconversion:

• Desire—People who experience the condemnation of their sexual desire, which they view as being natural, become turned off by religion.
• Guilt—Feeling a sense of religious guilt or shame or being made to feel guilty or shameful over sexual urges leaves many people feeling a sense of bitterness toward religion.
• Homosexuality—Being homosexual or bisexual contributes to a loss of faith, given the strong stance against homosexuality in religious systems like Christianity. Data indicates that a person who is homosexual or bisexual is three times more likely to be atheist or agnostic in comparison to those who are heterosexual.

Satan and Hell

Many non-Christians who grew up in Protestant and Catholic households were ingrained with a deep fear of Satan and hell. As they grew up, this fear became so overwhelming that they began to resent this aspect of Christianity, which led them to question their beliefs. The intensity of the fear also can lead to the need to escape such a feeling, which results in deconversion.

Wrongdoing/Scandals of Religious Associates

Encountering religious friends, colleagues, or acquaintances who act in ways that are counter to their religious beliefs generates much unease and doubt, which contributes to the loss of faith. Clergymen who act immorally play a large role in regard to the rejection of religion as well.

When it comes to those who maintain a skeptical position toward the Christian faith, we do well to remember Paul’s words from 2 Corinthians 4:4.

In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Atheists, agnostics, and the spiritual but not religious are caught up in a spiritual war. Their minds are held captive in spiritual darkness. They are not the enemy; the enemy is the one who seeks to hold them captive in their sin of unbelief. Proclaiming the Gospel to them is pronouncing their liberation. It is pronouncing their freedom.

Yet, many of them view believers as the ones held captive and see themselves as the ones who are free—free to think for themselves. But we know that human reason is thoroughly corrupted by sin. No amount of self-diagnosis will help us see the true depths of our corruption. We can see the imperfections within us, but the Law imprinted on our hearts is not enough to condemn us. It takes an outside source to point out to all of us that we are corrupt to our core.

Edited June 15, 2020 by fredwiggy

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, teatime101 said:

What a lot of tripe. We have no idea what 'the figure who is generally known as Jesus' actually said or did.

 

'believed in swords'... this is the kind of nonsense American gun lovers dream up. Jesus in 2020 would have open-carried an assault rifle and would definitely vote for Trump. /s

 

 

 

Of course we know what he said.

 

If you don't know what Jesus said about swords there is no point in debating you.

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

Yes, people can certainly have a personal relationship with God without religion.

Ok, good.

The next question then is...

Given that the Divine is revealed in and appears to humans in many different ways, in accordance to the person's own level of understanding (*), would it detract anything from your faith, being one of many and not "the only valid one"? 

Does your faith gain validity by denying other faiths, or by concrete proof that it can bring a person closer to the Divine? 

 

 

(*) The Divine appears to different people in different ways: as an angel to Christians, an animal in shamanism, one of the many God-manifestations in Hinduism, a white light for some, a sunset for others....the list is endless

Even in Christianity there's a trinity of God-Son-Holy Spirit. Christianity and most of the monotheistic religions have a God that is a dualistic expression of the Divine: it's God on one side and me on the other. Buddha went beyond that, he went into the non-dualistic expression, the formless and unmanifested realm. Hence the statement "He had no need for God". Not because he denied the dualistic God, but because he went beyond that manifestation of a personal God.

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

 

In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Atheists, agnostics, and the spiritual but not religious are caught up in a spiritual war. Their minds are held captive in spiritual darkness. They are not the enemy; the enemy is the one who seeks to hold them captive in their sin of unbelief. Proclaiming the Gospel to them is pronouncing their liberation. It is pronouncing their freedom.

Yet, many of them view believers as the ones held captive and see themselves as the ones who are free—free to think for themselves. But we know that human reason is thoroughly corrupted by sin. No amount of self-diagnosis will help us see the true depths of our corruption. We can see the imperfections within us, but the Law imprinted on our hearts is not enough to condemn us. It takes an outside source to point out to all of us that we are corrupt to our core.

Some good points there, but unfortunately it degenerated in the usual sectarian mindset.

I'm curious though...what is the outside source that can point out my sins?

Edited June 15, 2020 by Sunmaster

[Sunmaster]

2 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Yes, as I don't follow a religion, but Christianity

I'm confused....

 

 

Christianity is an Abrahamic monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. Its adherents, known as Christians, believe that Jesus is the Christ, whose coming as the messiah was prophesied in the Hebrew Bible, called the Old Testament in Christianity, and chronicled in the New Testament.^[1] It is the world's largest religion, with about 2.4 billion followers.^[2]

[fredwiggy]

4 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Some good points there, but unfortunately it degenerated in the usual sectarian mindset.

I'm curious though...what is the outside source that can point out my sins?

The Ten Commandments

[fredwiggy]

Just now, Sunmaster said:

I'm confused....

 

 

Christianity is an Abrahamic monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. Its adherents, known as Christians, believe that Jesus is the Christ, whose coming as the messiah was prophesied in the Hebrew Bible, called the Old Testament in Christianity, and chronicled in the New Testament.^[1] It is the world's largest religion, with about 2.4 billion followers.^[2]

Meaning calling Christianity a religion I assume? I don't label it as such, but by definition it is. Some other religions, such as Catholic, follow Christ's teachings and some, such as Buddhism, don't believe in God. As far as the name religion, here is one idea............https://www.thespectrum.com/story/life/features/mesquite/2016/04/03/christianity-not-man-made-religion/82532566/..

Edited June 15, 2020 by fredwiggy

[Sujo]

Religious people have no reasoning. Its like talking to flat earthers.

 I feel sad for them.

[Peter Denis]

2 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

...

When it comes to those who maintain a skeptical position toward the Christian faith, we do well to remember Paul’s words from 2 Corinthians 4:4.

In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Atheists, agnostics, and the spiritual but not religious are caught up in a spiritual war. Their minds are held captive in spiritual darkness. They are not the enemy; the enemy is the one who seeks to hold them captive in their sin of unbelief. Proclaiming the Gospel to them is pronouncing their liberation. It is pronouncing their freedom.

Yet, many of them view believers as the ones held captive and see themselves as the ones who are free—free to think for themselves. But we know that human reason is thoroughly corrupted by sin. No amount of self-diagnosis will help us see the true depths of our corruption. We can see the imperfections within us, but the Law imprinted on our hearts is not enough to condemn us. It takes an outside source to point out to all of us that we are corrupt to our core.

Two excerpts from a course in esotericism painting a rather different notion of human sin.

 

1 - ... Consciousness is bound up with polarity. That is why in Paradise man was forbidden to eat from the tree of knowledge, on pain of becoming mortal.
In Paradise man possessed cosmic consciousness but no individual consciousness. The snake crept from the tree and persuaded man to go the way of knowledge. Through eating the forbidden fruit of knowledge man became aware of good and evil. He plunged from oneness into polarity of consciousness, separating himself from oneness and thereby becoming sinful. Sin is separation from the primal oneness. Consequently every human being is sinful, for polarity and sin are the same thing. This state of affairs is what the Church calls original sin. Sin is the price we pay for knowledge. All too often we overlook this inseparable connection between knowledge and sin.

 

2 - ... If one had to point out a salient difference between Christianity and the oriental religions, it would surely lie in the life-affirming nature of the original Christianity, however much the Church later distorted this into its opposite. Herein lie the strength and the secret of Christianity: to recognize the world and mankind as sinful and yet to affirm them in their sinfulness.
This profound connection between knowledge and sin, fall and redemption is brought out in the Grail legend when it relates that the Grail cup in which Christ's blood was collected had been carved from the gem the dropped out of the crown of Lucifer when he fell. The fall is the descent from unity into polarity. Man per se is sinful only when he exists as a polarized being. This is what is meant by the concept of original sin. Humanity cannot be released from guilt – but it can be redeemed.

 

From Schicksal als Chance < The Challenge of Fate >

by Thorwald Dethlefsen
 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Peter Denis

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Given that the Divine is revealed in and appears to humans in many different ways, in accordance to the person's own level of understanding (*), would it detract anything from your faith, being one of many and not "the only valid one"? 

Does your faith gain validity by denying other faiths, or by concrete proof that it can bring a person closer to the Divine? 

@fredwiggy
What about my other questions?

[fredwiggy]

6 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

@fredwiggy
What about my other questions?

My faith has nothing to do with what others think or do. It''s a personal thing I have between myself and God. Like I've said before, and I'm sure you understand, I'm not here to judge but to spread the word, not by force but by how I believe. It's not my rules that I follow, and everyone was given free will by God himself. I would actually like to see everyone be a believer, and not have so much hate towards God and what they think he has done to them in their lives. We live and die from our choices, and the most important thing we can do is believe in God. Everything else is material things we enjoy and get bored from. I'm not a perfect Christian by any means, but I'm on the right path, and will never turn from that.I believe no matter what goes wrong in anyone's life, whether they live 1 year or 100,  they will see only good when they die if they believe. Like I posted earlier, there are specific reasons people turn from God, and it's usually a bad experience in childhood, or a lost love along the way.

[VincentRJ]

14 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

For someone that professes not to believe in God you certainly seem invested in the God of religion. You say nothing about spirituality, but only about a God with human characteristics, which is IMO a nonsense as God that created life the universe and everything can hardly be bounded by human traits.

 

The topic of the thread is not about spirituality but about God. Have you forgotten that, after 556 pages of comments? ????

 

For those who are interested in spirituality, there are hundreds of pages on that topic in the 'Buddhism' section of the TV forum.

 

I'm interested in History, Philosophy, Religion, Science, and the future well-being of humanity, as well as many other topics such as photography, bush-walking, classical music, politics and so on.

 

The belief in a God or Gods, whether Monotheism or Polytheism, has been a fundamental part of all civilizations throughout history, and those beliefs in a supreme, all-powerful being, or beings, have had a significant effect on all societies, in the past and, unfortunately, also in the present, regarding the awful conflicts within Islam.

 

The issue for me, is not whether God, as described in the Bible and other religious texts, exists or not. That is clearly impossible to determine, in my opinion, and it is also very unlikely that any God that might be discovered at some time in the distant future would fit the anthropomorphic descriptions currently found in the religious texts. 

 

The issue for me, is the apparent capacity or tendency of so many people throughout the world to firmly believe in something for which there is no sound evidence.
Or, to put it another way, the lack of understanding of so many people, as to what constitutes 'sound evidence', such as believing that the Bible, or other religious texts, represents 'sound evidence' that God exists.

 

This lack of understanding, of what constitutes 'sound evidence', will have serious ramifications for humanity in the future. An example is the current belief, among many, that every extreme weather event is the result of climate change, which is caused by human emissions of CO2.

 

It's very sad to consider the possibility that in 30 or 50 years time, when politicians are congratulating themselves that anthropogenic CO2 emissions have reached close to zero, we could be at the beginning of another 40-year drought in Australia, which we are unprepared for because we spent so much money on reducing CO2 emissions.

 

Australian scientists already have a thousand-year record of droughts in Australia, gathered from Ice Cores at Law Dome in the Antarctic. The Ice Core analyses have identified 8 mega-droughts that have occurred during the past 1,000 years, 6 of which occurred before CO2 levels began rising after the Industrial Revolution, and the worst of which was a 39-year drought that occurred in the 12th century AD, during the Medieval Warm Period.

[teatime101]

3 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Going to college has been shown to play a large factor in the rejection of religious beliefs. Being challenged with new ideas and concepts that contradict religious beliefs factors into deconversion.

It's hardly surprising that the more one is educated the less likely one is to have religious belief.

 

3 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

The experience of encountering people from other cultures and religious beliefs also contributes to deconversion. Often, these experiences are also linked to college. Meeting people who think and act differently can be challenging to a person’s long-held convictions.

And do you see these as good or bad reasons to reject religious belief? it's a logical progression from ignorance to knowledge.

 

3 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

If you are indeed an atheist, why spend so much time and energy trying to convince others that there isn't a God?

I don't. I try to educate people about the role of science in society, especially in developing appropriate climate change policy. There are two major hurdles, as I have found - (right wing) political belief and religious zealotry.

 

3 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Embracing progressive political ideology and being turned off by religious right-wing political parties contributes to the rejection of religion. Research also indicates that the more religious people are, the more likely they will be right wing in their political beliefs.

You're doing a great job, fredwiggy, exposing the strong relationship between poor education, limited life experience and tendency towards political extremism that goes hand in hand with many religious fanatics.

[Sunmaster]

3 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

My faith has nothing to do with what others think or do. It''s a personal thing I have between myself and God. Like I've said before, and I'm sure you understand, I'm not here to judge but to spread the word, not by force but by how I believe. It's not my rules that I follow, and everyone was given free will by God himself. I would actually like to see everyone be a believer, and not have so much hate towards God and what they think he has done to them in their lives. We live and die from our choices, and the most important thing we can do is believe in God. Everything else is material things we enjoy and get bored from. I'm not a perfect Christian by any means, but I'm on the right path, and will never turn from that.I believe no matter what goes wrong in anyone's life, whether they live 1 year or 100,  they will see only good when they die if they believe. Like I posted earlier, there are specific reasons people turn from God, and it's usually a bad experience in childhood, or a lost love along the way.

Ok, so we've established that:

 

1) People can have a personal relationship with God (dualistic interpretation) or the Divine (the formless, unmanifested interpretation), with or without the help of an organized religion.

2) Your faith is a personal thing, and I think it's safe to say that it is so for most others too.

3) How you get closer to God or the Divine is irrelevant, as long as basic principles of morality are observed.

 

4) The existence of other religions, or in a broader sense "spiritual paths", don't threaten your own religious path or personal faith, and don't take away anything from the truth you find therein

 

Does that sound reasonable to you?

[fredwiggy]

2 hours ago, teatime101 said:

It's hardly surprising that the more one is educated the less likely one is to have religious belief.

 

And do you see these as good or bad reasons to reject religious belief? it's a logical progression from ignorance to knowledge.

 

I don't. I try to educate people about the role of science in society, especially in developing appropriate climate change policy. There are two major hurdles, as I have found - (right wing) political belief and religious zealotry.

 

You're doing a great job, fredwiggy, exposing the strong relationship between poor education, limited life experience and tendency towards political extremism that goes hand in hand with many religious fanatics.

And you're reading into these things thinking they are exact science. None of those last three match myself or any of the thousands of friends I have, most of whom are believers.  How exactly does one have limited life experience? Same with poor education. America has some of the best schools in the world and I grew up in the greater New York-New Jersey area where that rings true. Are you referring to those that live in third world countries like here that are clueless to what's going on outside of the country?  You have your sources of information and I have mine. I'm guessing you believe everything you read about atheism to strengthen your beliefs, not giving a thought to why you began thinking like that in the first place. You try to educate people about the role of science in society? Are you a teacher or a bar stool professor? I'm neither but I saw climate change coming back in the 70's, when no one would believe me when I said stop cutting down the trees in the Amazon because it will affect the worlds climate. Funny how that turned out to be true while most called people like me uninformed and clueless, that the world always does this and has before. It didn't and hasn't. Political belief has some to do with climate change, as has filthy ,greedy, rich lowlifes that rape the earth for profit, but not religious zealotry. God gave humans control over the planet, and it's humans that are destroying it. Nominating leaders that believe in climate change and want to do whatever it takes to fix the situation needs to happen. Trump, the one with the most power, knows and does little about the situation, and is another reason he needs to go.

[yodsak]

[Sujo]

Its difficult to hate something that doesnt exist.

 

Believe whatever you like. But i do hate those that abuse children by indoctrinating them into a religion they do not understand, nor care.

[fredwiggy]

16 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Ok, so we've established that:

 

1) People can have a personal relationship with God (dualistic interpretation) or the Divine (the formless, unmanifested interpretation), with or without the help of an organized religion.

2) Your faith is a personal thing, and I think it's safe to say that it is so for most others too.

3) How you get closer to God or the Divine is irrelevant, as long as basic principles of morality are observed.

 

4) The existence of other religions, or in a broader sense "spiritual paths", don't threaten your own religious path or personal faith, and don't take away anything from the truth you find therein

 

Does that sound reasonable to you?

Yes, it's all about a personal relationship with God. Religions, some of which I was raised and participated in, aren't necessary in the long term, but gave me my start in my belief of God. You can be moral thinking without believing in God, but the two go hand in hand. I have nothing against other religions, as you can learn things from all of them.

[rott]

I remember at age 14 or 15 a dry as dust history lesson when we were "doing" the Reformation. 

My reaction was, well I'm glad that I'm one of these and not one of those. 

 

Still can't get my head around it today, they actually bow down to a wafer and worship it. And this makes them universally described as devout.?

Carry on. 

[Sunmaster]

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Yes, it's all about a personal relationship with God. Religions, some of which I was raised and participated in, aren't necessary in the long term, but gave me my start in my belief of God. You can be moral thinking without believing in God, but the two go hand in hand. I have nothing against other religions, as you can learn things from all of them.

Alright, that all sounds good indeed. 
I wonder then...why the need to evangelize, convert or put one religion above the rest?

[fredwiggy]

24 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Alright, that all sounds good indeed. 
I wonder then...why the need to evangelize, convert or put one religion above the rest?

No need to evangelize. I'm not preaching or trying to convert. I'd like my wife to convert, but I'm not pressuring her. I respect all religions and can be called an Omnist, but only believe in the teachings of those that involve Jesus. I believe that he died for our sins, and that was a major point that God was making for us. I learned what happens to non believers, and still believe that way. Buddhism has five moral precepts, all of which are good, but I still believe that they will  not be in heaven when they die. Muslims  believe in Jesus, but as a prophet and not divine or the son of God. Will this keep Muslims out of heaven? I don't think it will. Jesus was a Jew, and most Jews look at him as a teacher. Christians started Christianity, and Jesus  didn't mention Christian, but lived as a Jew. I'm sure Jews will enter heaven when they die also. In Jainism, there is no belief in God, as in Atheism, so in my thinking, they won't enter heaven either. The same with Hinduism. I don't believe in reincarnation ,that you only get one chance .Again, this wasn't about religions but do you believe in God and why.

Edited June 15, 2020 by fredwiggy

[Mike Teavee]

53 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Yes, it's all about a personal relationship with God. Religions, some of which I was raised and participated in, aren't necessary in the long term, but gave me my start in my belief of God. You can be moral thinking without believing in God, but the two go hand in hand. I have nothing against other religions, as you can learn things from all of them.

you forgot to add the part "but they're all going to burn in Hell forever" for not following your particular brand of religion...   

 

Don't tell me... You don't make the rules...

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

22 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

No need to evangelize. I'm not preaching or trying to convert. I'd like my wife to convert, but I'm not pressuring her. I respect all religions and can be called an Omnist, but only believe in the teachings of those that involve Jesus. I believe that he died for our sins, and that was a major point that God was making for us. I learned what happens to non believers, and still believe that way. Buddhism has five moral precepts, all of which are good, but I still believe that they will  not be in heaven when they die. Muslims  believe in Jesus, but as a prophet and not divine or the son of God. Will this keep Muslims out of heaven? I don't think it will. Jesus was a Jew, and most Jews look at him as a teacher. Christians started Christianity, and Jesus  didn't mention Christian, but lived as a Jew. I'm sure Jews will enter heaven when they die also. In Jainism, there is no belief in God, as in Atheism, so in my thinking, they won't enter heaven either. The same with Hinduism. I don't believe in reincarnation ,that you only get one chance .

So when you're reunited with your loved ones in heaven, your wife will never be among them....

 

[fredwiggy]

11 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

So when you're reunited with your loved ones in heaven, your wife will never be among them....

 

Up to her

[fredwiggy]

15 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

you forgot to add the part "but they're all going to burn in Hell forever" for not following your particular brand of religion...   

 

Don't tell me... You don't make the rules...

 

 

I never said anyone was going to burn in hell forever. That's what I learned , yes, but no one knows what hell will be like. It might be you in a room all by yourself. You won't have your body, so how would you burn? Mentally tortured? There are really nice people that don't believe in God, for one reason or another. Will they be in the same situation as Hitler? As far as I've learned, one sin is as bad as any other, although I don't think that myself, but it's what was taught. Will hell exist after Jesus comes again and brings all God's followers to heaven? Or will God destroy Satan and hell because there won't be any need for it anymore? I understand people say how could a loving God do such a thing? Some of us might believe the criminally insane, like Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Qaddifi, and Jeffrey Dahmer, to name a few, belong there forever. I believe God will not let all non believers stay in such a place forever, but that's my opinion. But again, I don't make the rules.

[Mike Teavee]

25 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I never said anyone was going to burn in hell forever. That's what I learned , yes, but no one knows what hell will be like. It might be you in a room all by yourself. You won't have your body, so how would you burn? Mentally tortured? There are really nice people that don't believe in God, for one reason or another. Will they be in the same situation as Hitler? As far as I've learned, one sin is as bad as any other, although I don't think that myself, but it's what was taught. Will hell exist after Jesus comes again and brings all God's followers to heaven? Or will God destroy Satan and hell because there won't be any need for it anymore? I understand people say how could a loving God do such a thing? Some of us might believe the criminally insane, like Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Qaddifi, and Jeffrey Dahmer, to name a few, belong there forever. I believe God will not let all non believers stay in such a place forever, but that's my opinion. But again, I don't make the rules.

That's a lot more pragmatic view than the one I read a few pages back which I may have ascribed to you in my reply so I apologise if I was harsh.

 

I just find the view that people like Gandhi, Buddha & somebody's gay child will go to hell despite living a "Good Life" but peadophile priests will go to heaven as they didn't commit the sin of not believing in / giving up on God & repent on their death beds abhorrent. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Mike Teavee

[fredwiggy]

Just now, Mike Teavee said:

That's a lot more pragmatic view than the one I read a few pages back which I may have ascribed to you in my reply so I apologise if I was harsh.

 

I just find the view that people like Gandhi, Buddha & somebody's gay child will go to hell despite living a "Good Life" but peadophile priests will go to heaven as they didn't commit the sin of not believing in / giving up on God & recant on their death beds abhorrent. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

 

I have a gay son so I know. I could only hope everyone would change while they're here, including my son. As far as priests that molest, they're sick and need help, and to be kept away from any children. Why do they do this to children? Maybe it happened to them. I don't think people are born crazy, but that their childhood traumas brought them there. Some learn from a bad past, and some victimize others to get back at their abusers. If anyone ever hurt my child, I know what I would probably do, and it's not turning the other cheek, so I pray it will never happen.