Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

Few years ago i would have never thought that i would have been defending religion, but recently I've changed my mind. 

Religion must not be intolerance, but moral values for everyone to live in peace, and hopefully prosperity and even happiness. 

But i am still against any kind of fanaticism, so let's not "throw the baby with the dirty water", because it seems that those who condemn religion are just as intolerant as the average believer. 

In the end, it's up to you what you believe. 

[mauGR1]

13 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

You seem determined & delighted to keep humanity in mysterious ignorance, and not to prove scientific facts, like some medieval RC Priest mumbling incantations. ????????

The universe and our perception of it are mysterious indeed.

Many scientific "truths " of today will be dismissed in the future as flawed or partially flawed, and i think you know it very well.

So better not tell fairy tales about the infallibility of science, coz you sound like a religious fanatic.????

[TropicalGuy]

3 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

The universe and our perception of it are mysterious indeed.

Many scientific "truths " of today will be dismissed in the future as flawed or partially flawed, and i think you know it very well.

So better not tell fairy tales about the infallibility of science, coz you sound like a religious fanatic.????

Absurdly Viewing science as “ fairy tales” and condemning science advocates as “religious fanatics” tells me all I wish to know of you????????

Science admits it’s limitations & deficiencies and advances / improves. Do You ? ????

[TropicalGuy]

3 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Few years ago i would have never thought that i would have been defending religion, but recently I've changed my mind. 

Religion must not be intolerance, but moral values for everyone to live in peace, and hopefully prosperity and even happiness. 

But i am still against any kind of fanaticism, so let's not "throw the baby with the dirty water", because it seems that those who condemn religion are just as intolerant as the average believer. 

In the end, it's up to you what you believe. 

Disbelievers demand science & facts re. religion. Which can  never be produced. Only fools openly  “tolerate” nonsense, other than not challenging individual “ believers” for sake of conflict avoidance & good manners.
 

Separate Facts from Faith,  Don’t Impose Imaginary Nonsense, Don’t Get Offended when it’s Exposed,  and we’ll all get along fine.????????

[mauGR1]

12 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Disbelievers demand science & facts re. religion. Which can  never be produced. Only fools openly  “tolerate” nonsense, other than not challenging individual “ believers” for sake of conflict avoidance & good manners.
 

Separate Facts from Faith,  Don’t Impose Imaginary Nonsense, Don’t Get Offended when it’s Exposed,  and we’ll all get along fine.????????

Yes, that makes sense to me, and by now it should be clear that I'm not imposing anything to anyone. 

Btw, i would also invite you and others who apparently hate religion/s to separate opinions from dogmas, ignorant superstitions from common sense, and spirituality from empty rituals. 

In other words, not all atheists are enlightened, and not all believers are dumb. 

[TropicalGuy]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

Yes, that makes sense to me, and by now it should be clear that I'm not imposing anything to anyone. 

Btw, i would also invite you and others who apparently hate religion/s to separate opinions from dogmas, ignorant superstitions from common sense, and spirituality from empty rituals. 

In other words, not all atheists are enlightened, and not all believers are dumb. 

I’m not “atheist” ( note: no word necessary for not stamp collecting) I’m anti- religion.????

 

you seem unaware or uncritical of the appalling 1000 year old list of crimes against humanity by the Catholic Church let alone the rabid lunatic evil of Islam.????

All true or absolute “believers” ARE clearly dumb conformists for survival or acceptance purposes. ????

 

All unbelievers at least have free will and therefore the capacity for further enlightenment.  ????

[Hummin]

5 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

I’m not “atheist” ( note: no word necessary for not stamp collecting) I’m anti- religion.????

 

you seem unaware or uncritical of the appalling 1000 year old list of crimes against humanity by the Catholic Church let alone the rabid lunatic evil of Islam.????

All true or absolute “believers” ARE clearly dumb conformists for survival or acceptance purposes. ????

 

All unbelievers at least have free will and therefore the capacity for further enlightenment.  ????

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men

Lord Acton

 

https://oll.libertyfund.org/quote/lord-acton-writes-to-bishop-creighton-that-the-same-moral-standards-should-be-applied-to-all-men-political-and-religious-leaders-included-especially-since-power-tends-to-corrupt-and-absolute-power-corrupts-absolutely-1887

[mauGR1]

26 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

you seem unaware or uncritical of the appalling 1000 year old list of crimes against humanity by the Catholic Church let alone the rabid lunatic evil of Islam.????

No, i am not unaware, but i don't blame the religion for the crimes, I blame the people who commit the crimes, while hiding behind the religion or other ideals. 

As far as i know, the majority of crimes is committed because of greed and thirst for power.

 

[Hummin]

30 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

No, i am not unaware, but i don't blame the religion for the crimes, I blame the people who commit the crimes, while hiding behind the religion or other ideals. 

As far as i know, the majority of crimes is committed because of greed and thirst for power.

 

I see the religion as an easy way to abuse people and power in the nature of religion as a way to teach other people about the truth of God! 
 

Narure is absolute, but religion is what it is now in this moment, and thats not absolute. 

[mauGR1]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

I see the religion as an easy way to abuse people and power in the nature of religion as a way to teach other people about the truth of God! 
 

Narure is absolute, but religion is what it is now in this moment, and thats not absolute. 

Nowadays it's a fashion to blame religion for everything wrong in the world. 

People feel smart for hating religion, they think they are free and open minded.

I hate this fashion, it stinks of comformism ????

Edited July 19, 2022 by mauGR1

[Hummin]

9 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Nowadays it's a fashion to blame religion for everything wrong in the world. 

People feel smart for hating religion, they think they are free and open minded.

I hate this fashion, it stinks of comformism ????

Religion have been with us for good and bad, and I do not think with any other system we would had been better or worse off, because of our true nature. Can not fake our nature through religion, politics or any other system that needs to control the masses from themselves. 

 

Let loose everyone on social media or here, and you know where it will be heading in just hours of free thoughts and free will typing ecactly what they want. Sit back and see it devolops in front of you. 
 

People are deleted nuts when you give the chance to show their truly self. Some is worse than others who manage to pull the rest in some direction or the other, because there will always be two poles pulling. Yin and Yang
 

 

[mauGR1]

11 hours ago, Hummin said:

Can not fake our nature through religion, politics or any other system that needs to control the masses from themselves. 

Yes, i agree.

Although many don't like to be controlled, i can somehow understand the reasons of those who are in power.

[seedy]

14 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

No, i am not unaware, but i don't blame the religion for the crimes, I blame the people who commit the crimes, while hiding behind the religion or other ideals. 

As far as i know, the majority of crimes is committed because of greed and thirst for power.

The RC church is poison from the top down.

I posted in the Movies and TV thread of the appalling way they treated Mother Teresa - and this decision came from the very top.

So if you are going to "Blame the people" and not the organization, this will not fly when the corruption permeates the place.

It is all about the $$$ - look how they 'worship' with gold vessels and robes while asking illiterate peasants to give them money.

Sickening.

 

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, seedy said:

So if you are going to "Blame the people" and not the organization, this will not fly when the corruption permeates the place.

Well, i don't know about mother Teresa, who is imho a controversial character. 

Besides that, of course everyone knows that there's a lot of corruption in the high spheres of organized religion. And other organizations..

Yet, i don't think it would be fair to blame Jesus Christ for that, do you?

When I say that "I blame the people ", the "people " obviously includes those at the top of corrupt organizations.

Is that clear ?

So, in fact there is no real controversy, it's just semantics. 

[ivor bigun]

Religion was invented to control people ,end of.

[Sunmaster]

Just now, ivor bigun said:

Religion was invented to control people ,end of.

wrong. end of

 

[seedy]

9 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, i don't know about mother Teresa, who is imho a controversial character. 

Besides that, of course everyone knows that there's a lot of corruption in the high spheres of organized religion. And other organizations..

Yet, i don't think it would be fair to blame Jesus Christ for that, do you?

When I say that "I blame the people ", the "people " obviously includes those at the top of corrupt organizations.

Is that clear ?

So, in fact there is no real controversy, it's just semantics. 

Jesus was not Roman Catholic ...

And you are dancing around the statement, offering no useful - even factual - basis for your claim. Anyone who has studied Organized religion - any and all of them - know what a corrupt cesspool they ALL are.

But People will be Sheeple

 

[Sunmaster]

5 minutes ago, seedy said:

Jesus was not Roman Catholic ...

And you are dancing around the statement, offering no useful - even factual - basis for your claim. Anyone who has studied Organized religion - any and all of them - know what a corrupt cesspool they ALL are.

But People will be Sheeple

 

I'm sorry, but what's your point? 
We all know that human organizations are as faulty as the people involved in them. Be they religious, political, scientific or whatnot. 
Calling people sheeple is just an attempt at categorizing the world in black and white groupings. Me, the enlightened one, and those other ones who have different worldviews, the sheeple. It's just a shortcut of the mind and doesn't do you any favours.
The world is far more complex than that. There are people of all kinds of developmental stages involved in religions....those that take everything literal, those that take emotional and spiritual solace from the religious teachings and those that embrace the more esoteric teachings/practices.
Pointing fingers is useless.

Regardless of religions, there is one very important point to remember. Spirituality is not confined to religion. There are countless people who consider themselves spiritual, but would not be involved in anything religious. The problem is that many materialists can't see the difference and they are trying to reduce everything spiritual down to "religious".
Unless one can not grasp this, there won't be any real understanding of the topic at hand. 

[mauGR1]

Just now, seedy said:

Jesus was not Roman Catholic ...

And you are dancing around the statement, offering no useful - even factual - basis for your claim. Anyone who has studied Organized religion - any and all of them - know what a corrupt cesspool they ALL are.

But People will be Sheeple

 

Dancing is good for health, and yes, i agree that many religious organizations are corrupt. 

If you say that all are corrupt, you surely have some detailed inside information that i don't, or perhaps you're just lying. 

Well, i repeat, as i can see you have problems understanding, religion and organized religion are 2 different concepts. Both include complex realities, more or less obvious, which only a very shallow person can dismiss in 3 words. 

Jesus Christ has showed his disdain for corrupt priests more than once, as documented, and perhaps that was the main reason he was persecuted. 

I can assure you that not all Christians, or Buddhists or Muslims are dumb hypocrites, and of course the same goes for atheists and agnostics. ????

 

[Hummin]

Without people following leaders, we would still lived in caves! Great societies need good leaders and people who are willing to following them, and do as they are told. It comes with both, good and bad

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Without people following leaders, we would still lived in caves! Great societies need good leaders and people who are willing to following them, and do as they are told. It comes with both, good and bad

That's quite correct, but only in theory. 

Here's a paradox for you:

A good leader should serve the people, so is he a leader or a servant ?

[Hummin]

18 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

That's quite correct, but only in theory. 

Here's a paradox for you:

A good leader should serve the people, so is he a leader or a servant ?

Both, and also need to be a bit tyrant, because true democracy will finely implode by its own weight

Edited July 20, 2022 by Hummin

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Both, and also need to be a bit tyrant, because true democracy will finely implode by its own weight

Interesting, some days i agree with you, most days i am sure that all dreams will become real, soon or later.

[Hummin]

29 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Interesting, some days i agree with you, most days i am sure that all dreams will become real, soon or later.

The church (religious) played the tyrant for a long time, and still do many places. In these days, where are people going to find some kind of respect for their leaders, when there is no major risk involved, or nobody willing to risk anything, because most have a decent life? We (I with many) Have everything we need, shelter, protection, food, education, but still very few feel self realization, and thats a problem. 
 

The worst problem to solve for many here at AN, is visa and enough money for beer and ladies. Thats all they care about, or staying sustainable so they can continue to gluttony their way to death with no whatsoever regrets. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Hummin

[mauGR1]

10 minutes ago, Hummin said:

The worst problem to solve for many here at AN, is visa and enough money for beer and ladies. Thats all they care about, or staying sustainable so they can continue to gluttony their way to death with no whatsoever regrets

All over the world, in all societies, most people are living in a sort of materialistic bubble, and most people find it perfectly normal and healthy. 

To find something to live for beyond the material gratification can be a challenge sometimes, but it's worth every little effort imho.

[ivor bigun]

but the Jews invented the one God before that people worshiped the stars and odin etc , etc. so who is to say that they are right?

[Hummin]

56 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

All over the world, in all societies, most people are living in a sort of materialistic bubble, and most people find it perfectly normal and healthy. 

To find something to live for beyond the material gratification can be a challenge sometimes, but it's worth every little effort imho.

I find life amazing through nature, and need nothing more than just a little bit confirmation from scientist of my interest and fits my belief to be happy. I mean respectable reputable scientists and not pseudo science. 

 

I do find history and human behavior through religion and politics to rebellious and hooligan cultures interesting. Tribe cultures who put themselves on the side of the society, and elevate themselves above others, and like the call people who made their existence possible exactly because of every cheeples who paved  the roads for them to have a easy life by not accomplish much by themselves, except look down on people who believed and contributed.

[seedy]

13 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

 Spirituality is not confined to religion.

I agree.

Hence my point about following any group that has the 'answers'

 

If you want to be happy, practice compassion

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion

Dalai Lama

[mauGR1]

10 hours ago, Hummin said:

I find life amazing through nature, and need nothing more than just a little bit confirmation from scientist of my interest and fits my belief to be happy. I mean respectable reputable scientists and not pseudo science. 

 

I do find history and human behavior through religion and politics to rebellious and hooligan cultures interesting. Tribe cultures who put themselves on the side of the society, and elevate themselves above others, and like the call people who made their existence possible exactly because of every cheeples who paved  the roads for them to have a easy life by not accomplish much by themselves, except look down on people who believed and contributed.

I share your interest in every kind of history, and as you put it very well, we have to listen to every side of the story to understand the laws of nature and humans' relationship with them...possibly without prejudice.

 

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, seedy said:

I agree.

Hence my point about following any group that has the 'answers'

 

If you want to be happy, practice compassion

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion

Dalai Lama

Absolutely.
I'm not a 'group person' myself, but I understand the need for community in a shared value system. 
I see it as the movement of a pendulum. We ourselves go through periods of time where we strive to be independent and other times when we seek community with others. The same goes for societies. There are opportunities and pitfalls on every swing of the pendulum. 
That's why I find it useless to point to a specific place on the swing's trajectory. It's just a temporary state and it will change. Sure, for societies the timeframes are much longer than for individuals, but nonetheless, they too will change and move along the spiral.