Country returning to undemocratic rule, warns senior Pheu Thai figure

[webfact]

Country returning to  undemocratic rule, warns senior Pheu Thai figure

By THE NATION

 

File photo

 

WITH REPORTS predicting the setting up of a national unity government to tackle the political deadlock, veteran politician Phumtham Wechayachai said yesterday that the Constitution and the legal framework had indeed been designed to cause complications and difficulties that would draw the nation down the path to undemocratic rule.

 

“The political situation is on a course that shows we are going toward a dead end,” he posted on Facebook yesterday, amid a climate of rising fears that forming a democratic government may be impossible.

 

Phumtham, Pheu Thai Party’s secretary-general, has called on the public and all concerned parties to think carefully about the idea that a national unity government would be an appropriate way out of the so-called political impasse. 

 

He said there was a democratic solution for everything, and if the authorities followed the law, all necessary procedures could be implemented smoothly.

 

Phumtham called on the authorities, including the Election Commission, to complete their duties responsibly and to prioritise national interest so the country can find a way to avoid a dead end.

 

His statement referred to confusion over the calculation for allocating seats in the Lower House. Unless the issue is settled fairly, critics see the allocation process as being potentially used to justify an agenda to establish a national unity government.

 

Democrat politician Thepthai Senawong floated the idea of forming such a supra-constitutional government after post-poll signs pointed to difficulties in setting up a new government with key rival camps seemingly neck-to-neck in MP counts.

 

However, the idea of a national unity government is not being welcomed by most politicians. Phalang Pracharat Party’s deputy spokesman Thanakorn Wangboonkongchana dismissed the idea again yesterday, insisting there was no need because his party would eventually form the government.

 

Though Phalang Pracharat, with 118 MP seats, is second to Pheu Thai with 138 seats in the Lower House, Thanakorn insisted yesterday that his party would set up the government through normal means. 

 

A national unity government was impossible and the country has yet to reach a dead end, he said, adding that everything would be settled after the election results are announced officially next month.

 

Meanwhile, Thepthai who brought the idea to the table iterated that the next government would be unstable if not impossible. 

 

“We cannot keep going without a government; it will affect the national administration and international confidence,” he said, continuing to argue for a national unity government as the solution.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30367793

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2019-04-17

[Thaiwrath]

4 minutes ago, webfact said:

and if the authorities followed the law,

Therein lies the problem.

They are making their own laws to suit their on agenda !

And, it is not 'returning' to undemocratic rule, it is 'STAYING' as undemocratic rule.

[YetAnother]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

veteran politician Phumtham Wechayachai said yesterday that the Constitution and the legal framework had indeed been designed to cause complications and difficulties that would draw the nation down the path to undemocratic rule.

he is just now figuring that out ?

[Fex Bluse]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

confusion over the calculation for allocating seats in the Lower House

These people just can't seem to do anything important properly. How is it possible that they so consistently mess everything up? Very impressive, actually.

[Puchaiyank]

I fully expect the person with absolute authority to intervene for the "good of the country" to continue with basically the same leadership the country had before the election...

 

Those in positions of power are waiting for the best timing...announcement likely to come after King's coronation... 

[tifino]

all that will result;

 - is he gets arrested for putting his views on to Facebook... 

[leeneeds]

 

Unfortunately it is a case of dealers choice, and all will have to wait until the next election 

to change the dealer, change the rules

and terminate article 44.

 

[PatOngo]

Even if, by some remote chance a democratic govt is installed, they will still govern under the cloud of the military. Democracy here is a myth!

[steven100]

4 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

Democracy here is a myth!

Not only Thailand .... everywhere also. Democracy is just smoke and mirrors. Look at Australia for democracy .... 6 PM's in as many years, and it's economy is on the borderline of a recession, look at the UK, democracy works well there ! lol .....  it's a mess.

You can have democracy. imo

[PatOngo]

4 minutes ago, steven100 said:

Not only Thailand .... everywhere also. Democracy is just smoke and mirrors. Look at Australia for democracy .... 6 PM's in as many years, and it's economy is on the borderline of a recession, look at the UK, democracy works well there ! lol .....  it's a mess.

You can have democracy. imo

So, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, free and fair elections are non existent in these countries? DO they have dysfunctional constabularies and education system, is corruption rife? Is there road carnage on a similar level? 

[Lupatria]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Country returning to  undemocratic rule, warns senior Pheu Thai figure

I wonder if this guy is familiar with the meaning of the term "returning"?

[TKDfella]

This is nothing new and expats on the forum have been saying it all along. While some are 'hell bent' on disposing of opposition by undemocratic methods, democratic rule isn't coming anytime soon. Of course the rules were designed to be difficult, the junta saw to that.

[hotchilli]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

Phumtham called on the authorities, including the Election Commission, to complete their duties responsibly and to prioritise national interest so the country can find a way to avoid a dead end.

The delay in the vote count is just another tactic by the Junta to hold onto power, they're just biding their time to make the announcement.

[wotsdermatter]

3 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

These people just can't seem to do anything important properly.

Does that also include the photograph showing the working using a cement sander without his wearing shoes or a mask?  Sorry, I am in Toronto at the moment and forgot he must be used to working in the environment that Bangkok recently went through so no mask is needed.

'nuf sed.

[Kasset Tak]

2 hours ago, steven100 said:

Not only Thailand .... everywhere also. Democracy is just smoke and mirrors. Look at Australia for democracy .... 6 PM's in as many years, and it's economy is on the borderline of a recession, look at the UK, democracy works well there ! lol .....  it's a mess.

You can have democracy. imo

Same in Sweden, the Sverigedemokraterna (nationalist party) became 3rd largest party with 17.5%... but the other parties refuse to work with them as they are a nationalist party... instead they work together with the parties that are supported by 4-6% of the voters?! And frankly, Sverigedemokraterna would probably be the largest party in Sweden if you count away the migrants (25% of the population) that now have voting rites in Sweden!!!
That's democracy?!?!

[gmac]

4 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

These people just can't seem to do anything important properly. How is it possible that they so consistently mess everything up? Very impressive, actually.

I hope you're not English as we have a saying about glass houses and stone throwing!????

[ThomasThBKK]

9 minutes ago, Kasset Tak said:

Same in Sweden, the Sverigedemokraterna (nationalist party) became 3rd largest party with 17.5%... but the other parties refuse to work with them as they are a nationalist party... instead they work together with the parties that are supported by 4-6% of the voters?! And frankly, Sverigedemokraterna would probably be the largest party in Sweden if you count away the migrants (25% of the population) that now have voting rites in Sweden!!!
That's democracy?!?!

Yes it is, it's a prime example of it. 

82.5% against a bunch of nazis that only have 17.5%.

 

 

[sammieuk1]

Looks like one person trying to grind out a result from manufactured figures????

[candide]

7 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

Therein lies the problem.

They are making their own laws to suit their on agenda !

And, it is not 'returning' to undemocratic rule, it is 'STAYING' as undemocratic rule.

On top of it, they don't even follow the laws they have made.

[tlandtday]

7 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

Therein lies the problem.

They are making their own laws to suit their on agenda !

And, it is not 'returning' to undemocratic rule, it is 'STAYING' as undemocratic rule.

This is a huge turning point for Thailand.  If things remain the same the country will essentially translate into a dictatorship based on the China model.  It's already begun but will need a few more years to complete.

[robblok]

24 minutes ago, Kasset Tak said:

Same in Sweden, the Sverigedemokraterna (nationalist party) became 3rd largest party with 17.5%... but the other parties refuse to work with them as they are a nationalist party... instead they work together with the parties that are supported by 4-6% of the voters?! And frankly, Sverigedemokraterna would probably be the largest party in Sweden if you count away the migrants (25% of the population) that now have voting rites in Sweden!!!
That's democracy?!?!

Democracy is whatever coalition gets the majority not who is the biggest party. Seen it in the Netherlands too.  So yes its democracy. 

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, steven100 said:

Not only Thailand .... everywhere also. Democracy is just smoke and mirrors. Look at Australia for democracy .... 6 PM's in as many years, and it's economy is on the borderline of a recession, look at the UK, democracy works well there ! lol .....  it's a mess.

You can have democracy. imo

 

Democracy in most Western countries is certainly facing some challenges.

 

However, they have separation of parliament, government/executive and most importantly relatively independent robust judicial systems, not perfect and often beyond the reach expense wise of many, but still better than most.

 

Free speech, press, media, are much higher than in other parts of the world; as is the right to peaceful protest, unionize, and demonstrate.

 

Not perfect by a long way, but still much better than most.

[Baerboxer]

23 minutes ago, robblok said:

Democracy is whatever coalition gets the majority not who is the biggest party. Seen it in the Netherlands too.  So yes its democracy. 

 

Fine point, but that's not really democracy. Political parties win votes based on their manifestos. Coalitions require parties to compromise their promises contained in their manifestos. There is an implicit assumption that the electorate who voted for them won't mind. 

 

Coalitions and PR seem to go hand-in-hand and have led to huge numbers of failed governments in some EU member states, and even periods of no government for some.

 

Tricky, as we have recently seen.

[Baerboxer]

42 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Yes it is, it's a prime example of it. 

82.5% against a bunch of nazis that only have 17.5%.

 

 

 

Are you suggesting that the Swedish nationalist party wishes to remove democracy, become a dictatorship, expel or eradicate citizens based on racial and/or religious reasons and political opponents? If so please provide evidence.

 

Or are you simply a snow flake left wing liberal who labels anyone right of center "a nazi"? That seems the usual slur of the left state control wannabees.

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Fine point, but that's not really democracy. Political parties win votes based on their manifestos. Coalitions require parties to compromise their promises contained in their manifestos. There is an implicit assumption that the electorate who voted for them won't mind. 

 

Coalitions and PR seem to go hand-in-hand and have led to huge numbers of failed governments in some EU member states, and even periods of no government for some.

 

Tricky, as we have recently seen.

I am used to it being from the Netherlands. I prefer it actually over a country like the US where you basically just got 2 options and a system where even if the majority of votes is not won you can still be president. 

 

I would not call that a democracy when a majority does not mean they can supply a president. But that just my opinion.

[Baerboxer]

44 minutes ago, candide said:

On top of it, they don't even follow the laws they have made.

 

Politicians here, when in power, regardless of party affiliation, always seem to assume that they are making laws and rules which everyone else must follow, not themselves.

 

The "do as we say not as we do" syndrome and the belief the chosen ones are above and beyond the law!

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

I am used to it being from the Netherlands. I prefer it actually over a country like the US where you basically just got 2 options and a system where even if the majority of votes is not won you can still be president. 

 

I would not call that a democracy when a majority does not mean they can supply a president. But that just my opinion.

 

The whole point of the US electoral college was to protect the rights of smaller populated states. Without that they would risk domination by populace cities and states, and the risk disenchanted states would secede as they felt they had no say.

 

The UK's representative democracy is designed to give constituents in less populated areas fair representation as well as those in densely populated areas.

 

In countries where you have multiple parties with first, second, third choices with seats allocated to complex formula, the result is often a coalition, in which parties trade off and compromise, given a result that nobody actually voted for. Inevitably some will be more happy than others depending on how the trade offs go.

The problem with a simple majority is you can have 51% happy and 49% unhappy. 

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The whole point of the US electoral college was to protect the rights of smaller populated states. Without that they would risk domination by populace cities and states, and the risk disenchanted states would secede as they felt they had no say.

 

The UK's representative democracy is designed to give constituents in less populated areas fair representation as well as those in densely populated areas.

 

In countries where you have multiple parties with first, second, third choices with seats allocated to complex formula, the result is often a coalition, in which parties trade off and compromise, given a result that nobody actually voted for. Inevitably some will be more happy than others depending on how the trade offs go.

The problem with a simple majority is you can have 51% happy and 49% unhappy. 

So what your saying is that some votes are more important then other votes.. does not sound democratic to me.

 

I know how it came to be I understand the history behind it. 

 

I prefer the system we have above anyone else his / her system as its a true democracy where each vote is the same.  That is not to say that I don't see a point in the other system. But in a true democracy each vote is worth the same.

 

Sure the horse trading in coalitions is bad.. but usually they don't give in on their most important promises.

[mercman24]

like democracy in the UK, ?? 17+ million voted to leave the EU but 600 trying their damnest to keep us in  , at least our votes will count come the mext elections, i think we all knew nothing would change much in Thailand, they like power too much

[Kasset Tak]

17 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Yes it is, it's a prime example of it. 

82.5% against a bunch of nazis that only have 17.5%.

 

 

No, this isn't an example of democracy, because the Swedish population didn't vote to be overturned by migrants and lose their country!

 

Just a few examples that have made so many who are born Swedish to turn to the nationalist party:
* My father got reduced pension (after paying tax and for social security for 50 years!!!) because "there isn't enough money in the system" but the Swedish government still have money to pay welfare to migrants, that's higher than my fathers pension?!
* My niece lost her job (after 5 years working there) to a migrant because the government support employers (financially and with tax cuts) who hires migrants. So they kicked her out as they could save about 40% on the labor cost?!
* The crime rate in the city I come from has risen by 85% over the past 10 years. Not all of it is migrant related, but in the past we didn't have migrant gangs fighting other migrant gangs, migrants burning cars/killing people because they don't like the Swedish law/system?!
* The school where my sister works had to stop serving pork in the school cafeteria so that they could accommodate 2 Muslim migrant children that started studying there... pork was not a problem with the 5 Jewish children already studying there?!

So it's not that people are Nazis, they are just feed-up with a "democracy" that don't listen to the people who where born in the country... and again 82.5% is including the migrants... without them being able to vote (like in Thailand and many other countries...) it would me more like 75-25 (and they would be the largest party!!!)... or if there wouldn't be so much problems because of migrants, it would be 95-5 as people wouldn't be voting on the nationalist party... So, sure maybe Sweden is a democracy, but it is a democracy that has failed it's people!