Immigration police question ‘seasteader’

[MeePeeMai]

I guess his father never told him:   "Pick your battles wisely my son."

[raccos21]

This is Thailand what do you expect?

[mikebike]

7 hours ago, connda said:

Even if he 'won' in some international court (after many years) he will be blacklisted by immigration which would break off his access to his seastead... via Thailand.

 

This is bleeding edge stuff.  However, just like few envisioned Bitcoin, even fewer probably see the future in sovereign seastead communities.  But my guess is that as statists become more and more authoritarian, and as principles of Liberty, Fraternity, and Equality along with rule of law are trampled underfoot, there will be a subset of the population who will take to the new frontier.  Those people will be maligned, reviled, cursed, critized, condemned, and called 'crazies' and 'loons' by those who can only envision their reality as being one in which their actions are controlled, cradle to grave, by The State.  But - it's here.  A new paradigm.  A new frontier.

So this is the first of the birth pangs.  New and novel ideas are seldom born of complacency.  And just as frontiersmen and frontierswomen faced hardships and the unknown, so will these new travelers who journey to edge of the last frontier - The Sea - and seek to carve out independent lives.  

New? It is just a non-seaworthy boat at anchor. Millennia old.

[TKDfella]

8 hours ago, Kerryd said:

Actually, if you actually looked into it, you would find that he (Chad Elwartowski) has been heavily involved in this project since at least last October. His Facebook claims he started working for Ocean.Builder last February but articles on the website dated to last October were authored by "elwar" who also is the one who responds to comments on the site.

As well, it is stated that he and Nadia would be providing "on site property management".

 

He is NOT "just a tenant". And the Ocean/Builder website is NOT an "authoritative Journal". 

They were planning on selling a lot of these seasteads and were going to offer the first 20 "at cost" (of $150,000 US each - built entirely in Thailand). That is a commercial venture.

Also, if you actually did some research you'd know this isn't the first time they've tried something like this. It seems they previously tried to do it in French Polynesia but for whatever reason (no suckers ?) ended up letting that one "drift away" before trying again in Thai waters.

 

Also, if you actually looked into it, you'd find all sorts of warning flags popping up. Like how they only want payment in Bitcoin (because other payment methods would create problems - like leaving traceable money trails and tax issues). You'd also notice that their website is set up to be as anonymous as possible, with no addresses or business locations noted, no mention of CEOs/Board of Directors or any other details that might reveal details about who they really are (and where they are really operating from). 

Any information requires you to send them a message through their website (so you can't see an email address). They can then decide if they want to respond or not.

Note that it appears their website is registered in Panama as well. Home to a number of companies that specialize in creating "numbered companies" with no way of finding out who actually controls them (unless hackers manage to steal a large hunk of data and publish it like they did back in 2015).

Their "environmental plan" is to dump all their raw sewage into the ocean "where all the whale and dolphin poop goes" (which they say right on their site). But hey ! They are looking into growing edible seaweed too ! 

As for their other garbage, they claim they'll bag it and transport it to shore for disposal. You know. In the country that they think shouldn't have any say in what they do, but they expect to provide them with garbage disposal, shopping, airports, etc. Yeah right. "Oops, sorry darling. Wave knock all garbage bags into ocean." "Darn, that's the 6th time in the last 6 days that has happened ! Sure hope they float far away before spilling their contents into the ocean."

And you can bet they'd expect Thailand to rescue them of course when the next storm comes along that capsizes/sinks all their seasteads. They claim the average waves in the area (off the coast of Phuket) are only .5 meters. This is the same area hit by the tsunami in 2004 and the same (general) area where the storm last July capsized a number of tourist boats including the Phoenix where 49 people died.
(Note that they make no mention of any emergency procedures or safety equipment.)

I wouldn't put a single baht towards this venture and there are probably a lot of people out there that have been saved from losing a fortune. 

 

That's quite an in depth piece of info there. Since I haven't researched this then I'll assume you are correct. The other thing(s) that bother me this; 1, all foreigners in the kingdom have to register their address with immigration (just like the many expats here posted about on other threads). Since he had a visa what address did he register with immigration...any idea with that? 2, I find it a very unwise move to possess a visa and then not ask for permission concerning the 'seastead'. If it were me I wouldn't want to risk my status over the lack of a visit to the appropriate office(s) to find what the law was...especially with a junta government.

[Sealbash]

Even if he 'won' in some international court (after many years) he will be blacklisted by immigration which would break off his access to his seastead... via Thailand.
 
This is bleeding edge stuff.  However, just like few envisioned Bitcoin, even fewer probably see the future in sovereign seastead communities.  But my guess is that as statists become more and more authoritarian, and as principles of Liberty, Fraternity, and Equality along with rule of law are trampled underfoot, there will be a subset of the population who will take to the new frontier.  Those people will be maligned, reviled, cursed, critized, condemned, and called 'crazies' and 'loons' by those who can only envision their reality as being one in which their actions are controlled, cradle to grave, by The State.  But - it's here.  A new paradigm.  A new frontier.

So this is the first of the birth pangs.  New and novel ideas are seldom born of complacency.  And just as frontiersmen and frontierswomen faced hardships and the unknown, so will these new travelers who journey to edge of the last frontier - The Sea - and seek to carve out independent lives.  

Thank you for a well thought out and forward looking post. Current con formative thinking and policies cause most people to immediately dismiss this concept. This concept is in its infancy, and may flourish or may be regulated out of existence.
There are logistical problems that have yet to been solved. ie: supply to the installation, trash disposal, medical emergencies or natural disaster response.
During the last 100 (+/-20) years, mankind has invented: Flight, air conditioning, computers, internet, mass transit, space flight, nuclear energy, heart transplant, lung transplant........and many ,more inventions innovations.
With the current and anticipated increase in computing power, no one can accurately guess what the future may hold, and this could easily include human habitation under or on the seas.
This seasteader could easily be to water habitation what the Wright brothers were to space travel. A very primitive start. The first step could lead to major scientific and practical applications within the next 100 years that no one alive today can comprehend.
I personally do not believe humanity today is at the pinnacle of its civilization.
All journeys start with a single step.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Guest]

3 hours ago, onthemoon said:

You consider Phuket News a legal authority?

No.

[ttrd]

On 4/19/2019 at 4:14 PM, Rama said:

instead of making wais and asking for forgiveness for not understanding the law, he has chosen to try and make an incident out of it. Even if he 'won' in some international court (after many years) he will be blacklisted by immigration which would break off his access to his seastead. Not a very rational or thought out plan (but the seastead isn't either, and neither is 'investing' in bitcoins).

Well  - here we find some interesting contradictions:

 

(1) RE - Even if he 'won' in some international court (after many years)

If he win meaning the seasted is legal.

 

(2) RE - he will be blacklisted by immigration which would break off his access to his seastead.

To be blacklisted it must be a plausible reason and if he won in a international Court such reason related to the seasted no longer exist.

 

And as we know there are several ways leading to Rome - no need to use Phuket as a base … 

 

[tudorc]

Theres a video out there,where he is talking openly of being founder of ocean builders,

looks like he could be in big trouble,was organising paying trips and 1 week training courses,

also some of the videos of the construction, there are foreign guys working on the project,

so also the work permits and so on.

looks like he could have contravened a few laws.

Edited April 20, 2019 by tudorc

[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, ttrd said:

Well  - here we find some interesting contradictions:

 

(1) RE - Even if he 'won' in some international court (after many years)

If he win meaning the seasted is legal.

 

(2) RE - he will be blacklisted by immigration which would break off his access to his seastead.

To be blacklisted it must be a plausible reason and if he won in a international Court such reason related to the seasted no longer exist.

 

And as we know there are several ways leading to Rome - no need to use Phuket as a base … 

 

No country is obliged to grant a visa to anybody, even if a court decides the seastead is in international waters and Thailand has no jurisdiction. No contradiction.

[utalkin2me]

THE absolute worst thing that can happen to this guy is he is allowed to live in that thing. 

 

I will tell you what, he is really onto something if he is thinking of housing prisoners. As far as living a nice life, that thing would be entertaining for all of about three hours after the first dramamine wore off. 

[ttrd]

16 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

THE absolute worst thing that can happen to this guy is he is allowed to live in that thing. 

 

I will tell you what, he is really onto something if he is thinking of housing prisoners. As far as living a nice life, that thing would be entertaining for all of about three hours after the first dramamine wore off. 

Excellent as fishermen's emergency point for fuel, depot, shelter, toilet etc … 

[Percy P]

On 4/19/2019 at 9:41 PM, observer90210 said:

How about questionning those who built the structure ? Doubt that the guy, as smart as he may be (or not be) did it himself ?

I believe the company that built it belongs to him. If he thought he could have gotten away with it the company could build to others. If there are 50 units their what happens to all the toiletries and wast . In the sea to be washed up on the surrounding island. He can not be a load to succeed.