Denied at Don Mueang.

[BuckBee]

9 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

so ur trying to live somewhere on the wrong visa and now working without a eb visa/extension

wow... ur just the kind of person SE Asian countries wants.

 

He not working, figure of expression 'working on getting a SETV in PP'

 

The OP seems pretty decent honest guy and not exactly been here on yrs of entries so no real need bust his balls or not even read the posts well .

 

Airports have got pretty nasty, even with visas and not many entries they spending lot of time flicking the passport pages ...

 

[travelerjim]

13 hours ago, Ian Pickles said:

Only posting as an FYI so others don't make the same mistake I did. A bit in my defense, I have never been told by immigration, nor have I ever read anywhere, exactly what we can and can not do with VOA's. And to save you a couple of key strokes, yes I am guilty of not doing enough homework on the subject. 

And beware even with a valid Tourist Visa ...Thai Immigration can deny you entry IF they suspect you are NOT a Tourist. Be prepared to be denied again for the same reason you were just denied.

Edited April 22, 2019 by travelerjim

[2rist]

When you guys say "back to back" and "visa run", how long do you exit the country before you reenter? I typically exit for a month before re-entering for and average of 2 months. Is that an issue?

[BuckBee]

^ it can be at airports

i've had hassle when been out of country for 10 months and they seen previous setv stickers in my passport

I live and work from singapore and any time here is purely leisure but recent gastapo training at swampy and DM means anyone with fair bit of history (more so if passport shows most of it, they don't see it on computers easily unless system flags you) could get ballache if you get wrong immigration officer and take a dislike to each other .

I always been able talk matters through but some of the staff are total dragons and making up rules and give you false information so you got be up to speed (know what forms/stamps say if don't read thai via research and prepared politely stand your ground) .

[RJRS1301]

Multiple entries on Visa exempt, not a tourist, refused for abusing system,

You think Canadian IO would allow foreign nationals to abuse your system as you have done in Thailand?

At 59 one would expect a little more common sense

[BritTim]

37 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Multiple entries on Visa exempt, not a tourist, refused for abusing system,

You think Canadian IO would allow foreign nationals to abuse your system as you have done in Thailand?

At 59 one would expect a little more common sense

In Canada, the rules are a lot clearer.

For the benefit of those planning to visit Thailand in the future, perhaps you can point to the rules that define allowable activities for a tourist, and the conditions under which you will be allowed to enter visa exempt. Some of us have found this difficult to find.

[Ian Pickles]

3 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Multiple entries on Visa exempt, not a tourist, refused for abusing system,

You think Canadian IO would allow foreign nationals to abuse your system as you have done in Thailand?

At 59 one would expect a little more common sense

In fact, Canada welcomes visitors who obey local laws and spend a lot of money, as I do in Thailand. I am sure it is the same in your country.

[seancbk]

17 hours ago, BritTim said:

A tourist visa is no guarantee of being admitted at Don Muang, but it does give you a better chance.

 

That's true, although most people who report getting hassled or refused haven't been staying here or visiting that often, what they have done is use Visa Exempt entries back to back without ever bothering to pay for the privilege of coming here. 
 

[Cereal]

28 minutes ago, Ian Pickles said:

In fact, Canada welcomes visitors who obey local laws and spend a lot of money, as I do in Thailand. I am sure it is the same in your country.

I'm not sure the letter of the law in Thailand allows for an unlimited number of border runs to renew a tourist visa. That is not what a tourist visa is for. What you are doing seems to be using a tourist visa for a permanent residency visa and I doubt that is legal.

[Ian Pickles]

2 hours ago, Cereal said:

I'm not sure the letter of the law in Thailand allows for an unlimited number of border runs to renew a tourist visa. That is not what a tourist visa is for. What you are doing seems to be using a tourist visa for a permanent residency visa and I doubt that is legal.

I am not a permanent resident and the "letter of law" is not well defined at all. But, my mistake, and now I know.

[2rist]

10 hours ago, BuckBee said:

^ it can be at airports

i've had hassle when been out of country for 10 months and they seen previous setv stickers in my passport

I live and work from singapore and any time here is purely leisure but recent gastapo training at swampy and DM means anyone with fair bit of history (more so if passport shows most of it, they don't see it on computers easily unless system flags you) could get ballache if you get wrong immigration officer and take a dislike to each other .

I always been able talk matters through but some of the staff are total dragons and making up rules and give you false information so you got be up to speed (know what forms/stamps say if don't read thai via research and prepared politely stand your ground) .

I see. Thanks for the reply.

 

But I am really curious. How long does a typical "back to back" visa runner spend outside of Thailand between visas? Does the situation improve if I visited two countries in the month (or so) I spend outside before coming back to Thailand?

[Tayaout]

26 minutes ago, 2rist said:

I see. Thanks for the reply.

 

But I am really curious. How long does a typical "back to back" visa runner spend outside of Thailand between visas? Does the situation improve if I visited two countries in the month (or so) I spend outside before coming back to Thailand?

No real answers. Some IO seems to think that it's mandatory to go back to your passport country to be a genuine tourist. 

[Thailand Outcast]

3 hours ago, 2rist said:

I see. Thanks for the reply.

 

But I am really curious. How long does a typical "back to back" visa runner spend outside of Thailand between visas? Does the situation improve if I visited two countries in the month (or so) I spend outside before coming back to Thailand?

A typical "visa run" for another 30 days (and 30 day extension) can be done in 1 day.  Fly out in the morning, fly back in the afternoon. 

 

A typical "visa run" for a 60 day visa (and a 30 day extension) is around 3 days in duration, but can be done in 2 days, if flights match up. However, with the new visa laws, we are seeing longer waiting times, with the Vientiane Consulate now a 2 week in advance appointment. 

 

So, instead of lodge passport and application today, pick up tomorrow, a consulate may say lodge today, pick up in 2, or 3 days time. 

 

  

[BuckBee]

9 hours ago, Cereal said:

I'm not sure the letter of the law in Thailand allows for an unlimited number of border runs to renew a tourist visa. That is not what a tourist visa is for. What you are doing seems to be using a tourist visa for a permanent residency visa and I doubt that is legal.

Letter of the law does allow for it if you got the financial means and are actually doing holiday/leisure activities .

I've stayed many times over a year purely on leisure break and had no problems getting 4+ setv or entering at land boarders, only swampy and DM are main ballache as they running there own rules and illegally voiding peoples entry through false claims and falsifying the denial report detail and relying on the aliens ignorance not to question it .

Know your rights and politely refuse sign documents if they expelling you on grounds of no means of support yet not even asked for financials etc .

Sure quite a few ask for trouble as don't do homework or simply too lazy make better visa and entry point decisions .

 

As my thai friends who retail at esplanade said at songkran, hardly any westerners anymore, it all chinese and korean and philippine teachers and thailand changing because of it and not for the better ...

 

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by BuckBee

[Thailand Outcast]

22 hours ago, moe666 said:

Do not kid yourself Thailand wants real tourist not people living here on tourist visas or VOA. This has actually been a long term battle for them as I can remember rule changes and better enforcement back in 2004 and 5. Of course the people pulling this all said the same thing, they just do not realze how much money we contribute. I guess it just isn't that much for them to worry about. Get the proper visa or go to one of the more welcoming countries at least in your eyes

As I have asked in the past, please define, "living here?" 

 

What criteria is used when deeming someone as "living here?" 

[Gweiloman]

 
As my thai friends who retail at esplanade said at songkran, hardly any westerners anymore, it all chinese and korean and philippine teachers and thailand changing because of it and not for the better ...
 
 

Oh. So you and your racist Thai friends think that westerners are better than others? Well, the Thai government doesn’t think so. I don’t remember reading any reports about Korean expats hurling insults at bar owners or Philippino teachers brawling on the streets of Pattaya.

It’s probably this condescending and superior attitude that causes IO’s to deny entry to some farangs.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[BuckBee]

23 hours ago, moe666 said:

Do not kid yourself Thailand wants real tourist not people living here on tourist visas or VOA. This has actually been a long term battle for them as I can remember rule changes and better enforcement back in 2004 and 5. Of course the people pulling this all said the same thing, they just do not realze how much money we contribute. I guess it just isn't that much for them to worry about. Get the proper visa or go to one of the more welcoming countries at least in your eyes

I think you kidding just yourself.

This has not been a long term battle, they been flip flopping the rules for almost 2 decades pending on what racist tit is in charge.

Most of the time they been more than happy with long term tourists, hell you can go get extensions every 60 days on your latest setv at changwattana and not even get hassled or need show much in way of validating your claims so why you think you not allowed to !?

Sure current Junta and one grumpy little elf not keen on westerners and keen keep our influence minimal but the immigration rules have changed very little for long term tourism and if truly wanted stop long term tourism one rule is all that be needed and programmed into system to flag anyone over the permitted days per year and job jobbed .

Reality is only the 2 main airports totally hostile due to personal agenda of those running immigration at those points (same as poipet doing it's own thing mess) and handling cases poorly with false/poor information .

Sure a lot of people truly do take the piss but it pretty easy pick them out and it pretty easy get idea of wealth and class of those you have doubts on .

swampy and DM may throw them out but 90%of land boarders let them in very same day with a smile and a wai lol .

Edited April 23, 2019 by BuckBee

[whitemouse]

On 4/22/2019 at 7:24 AM, transam said:

Perhaps you should have worn an SAS uniform....????

Man was denied entry, this affects many. But giggle away, you are retirement so others' suffering is a joke to you. 

[whitemouse]

On 4/22/2019 at 8:02 AM, Ian Pickles said:

Only posting as an FYI so others don't make the same mistake I did. A bit in my defense, I have never been told by immigration, nor have I ever read anywhere, exactly what we can and can not do with VOA's. And to save you a couple of key strokes, yes I am guilty of not doing enough homework on the subject. 

 

Thank you for posting your bad experience. This happens a lot now. 

 

There is no law that prevented you entry. You were unlucky. Those of us who read this sub forum regularly know this. Others are here to giggle, to cheer themselves up seeing fellow Thailand traveler suffer, don't mind them, that's how it is here. They are all on retirement extension, safely, as long as your troubles and theirs are dissimilar, they are happy. 

 

Get a new passport, try not to have more than 2, maximum 3 visa wave entries. Get as many TR visas in region as you can, if possible, travel home and get Multiple Entry tourist visa. 

[shy coconut]

On 4/22/2019 at 9:18 AM, Jimbo said:

It was possible to stay here for a long time on only tourist visas but that has changed. Anyway udonjoe has helped many expats so a bit of respect towards joe please


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Maybe a little respect is due to Ubon as well ????

[Ian Pickles]

48 minutes ago, whitemouse said:

 

Thank you for posting your bad experience. This happens a lot now. 

 

There is no law that prevented you entry. You were unlucky. Those of us who read this sub forum regularly know this. Others are here to giggle, to cheer themselves up seeing fellow Thailand traveler suffer, don't mind them, that's how it is here. They are all on retirement extension, safely, as long as your troubles and theirs are dissimilar, they are happy. 

 

Get a new passport, try not to have more than 2, maximum 3 visa wave entries. Get as many TR visas in region as you can, if possible, travel home and get Multiple Entry tourist visa. 

Thanks partner, some good points and advice in your post. As far as some others, well it is the internet age, trolling has become the norm for people with nothing better to do. 

[BuckBee]

4 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Oh. So you and your racist Thai friends think that westerners are better than others? Well, the Thai government doesn’t think so. I don’t remember reading any reports about Korean expats hurling insults at bar owners or Philippino teachers brawling on the streets of Pattaya.

It’s probably this condescending and superior attitude that causes IO’s to deny entry to some farangs.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Seems you one with some attitude and racism vibes . I'm Singaporean so pretty relaxed with asians and westerners .

Try retailing with tour groups of chinese tourists and see how much of a headache you get and for hardly no sales lol .

As for Philippine teachers, huge amount thai parents and students complain about the low quality of teaching but they here as those at top like the low cost and kept it easy for them to legally work in teaching .

 

[mngmn]

15 hours ago, Tayaout said:

No real answers. Some IO seems to think that it's mandatory to go back to your passport country to be a genuine tourist. 

But how could they know that by looking at your passport? Many countries do not stamp your passport now.

[Tayaout]

48 minutes ago, mngmn said:

But how could they know that by looking at your passport? Many countries do not stamp your passport now.

When you look at my passport you can follow the entry/exit stamp and see that I was no back to my passport country for a loooooong time. Also my passport was delivered in SE Asia. Sometimes I get asked "when you return your country?". I'm not a genuine tourist. More like a life long traveler. 

[BuckBee]

56 minutes ago, mngmn said:

But how could they know that by looking at your passport? Many countries do not stamp your passport now.

That a good point and reason I got questioned once as they couldn't see I had been home and missed the fact by visually flicking through my passport .

Even a history print out was not accurate and IO had go away and print out another but I never got see that as they caved in with polite reasoning and realising don't get a visa or stamp in my home country lol .

[JackThompson]

 

On 4/22/2019 at 8:52 PM, moe666 said:

 Of course the people pulling this all said the same thing, they just do not realze how much money we contribute. I guess it just isn't that much for them to worry about.

15 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Oh. So you and your racist Thai friends think that westerners are better than others? Well, the Thai government doesn’t think so. I don’t remember reading any reports about Korean expats hurling insults at bar owners or Philippino teachers brawling on the streets of Pattaya.

It’s probably this condescending and superior attitude that causes IO’s to deny entry to some farangs.

The Thais who actually deal with foreigners find our "replacements" far inferior in every way to Western visitors - though the insults and complaints I have heard were not directed at Koreans or Filipinos - rather, those from a couple very populous countries.

 

I would encourage those who think this way, to speak with Thais who work with tourists (those who still have jobs), and ask them for their perspective.  Ask them which foreigners don't tip, are the most rude, only frequent businesses where Thais are paid the least and worked the hardest (or replaced by Cambodians or Burmese), etc. 

 

 

17 hours ago, BuckBee said:

As my thai friends who retail at esplanade said at songkran, hardly any westerners anymore, it all chinese and korean and philippine teachers and thailand changing because of it and not for the better ...

Yes - the Thais affected are much more angry than we are.  They cannot just "go to Vietnam instead," like we can.   But immigration has no way to extort money from Thais, so care even less about them than they do us.

 

There is no way to know

Edited April 24, 2019 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

On 4/22/2019 at 7:18 PM, Thailand Outcast said:

They are denying entry to people with tourist visas as well. Many of which have reported they fly to a nearby country and enter at a land boarder, with the same visa that was denied at the airport.  Go figure.  

Because those land-borders follow the law, and do not use lies / inapplicable reasons for denial.

 

On 4/22/2019 at 8:52 PM, moe666 said:

Do not kid yourself Thailand wants real tourist not people living here on tourist visas or VOA.

 

This has actually been a long term battle for them as I can remember rule changes and better enforcement back in 2004 and 5.

You only get 60-days max -then must apply for an extension to max-out at 90.  No one is "living here" on short-term entries - they must leave frequently, and upon each entry and visa-application show they still have money.

 

Visa Exempt border-bouncers were scrutinized during that period, but that "crackdown" (purportedly based on illegal-workers) never affected those with valid Tourist Visas and the cash to show.

 

 

On 4/23/2019 at 1:03 AM, travelerjim said:

And beware even with a valid Tourist Visa ...Thai Immigration can deny you entry IF they suspect you are NOT a Tourist. Be prepared to be denied again for the same reason you were just denied.

They are not denying for "not being a tourist."  They are denying for "not having long-term money" - even though the rules stay you just need 20K Baht for a 60-day permitted-stay with a Tourist Visa or 10K if entering Visa-Exempt. 

 

The rule being used for denial is inapplicable to a person entering for a short-term permitted stay.

 

5 hours ago, Tayaout said:

I'm not a genuine tourist. More like a life long traveler. 

In terms of Thailand's laws, a tourist don't take a Thai-job, and has their own money to spend.  But you know about the airports and the one bad land-border - the laws don't apply there.

 

On 4/23/2019 at 8:59 AM, Cereal said:

I'm not sure the letter of the law in Thailand allows for an unlimited number of border runs to renew a tourist visa.

Actually, it does.  There is no legal reason for denial based on "here too much/often before."

 

Quote

That is not what a tourist visa is for. What you are doing seems to be using a tourist visa for a permanent residency visa and I doubt that is legal.

PR gives you the right to stay permanently.  A tourist entry gives you the right to stay for 30 or 60-days - extendable at immigration's discretion for another 30-days.  

 

 

On 4/23/2019 at 1:17 AM, 2rist said:

When you guys say "back to back" and "visa run", how long do you exit the country before you reenter? I typically exit for a month before re-entering for and average of 2 months. Is that an issue?

22 hours ago, 2rist said:

I see. Thanks for the reply.

 

But I am really curious. How long does a typical "back to back" visa runner spend outside of Thailand between visas? Does the situation improve if I visited two countries in the month (or so) I spend outside before coming back to Thailand?

16 hours ago, Thailand Outcast said:

As I have asked in the past, please define, "living here?" 

 

What criteria is used when deeming someone as "living here?" 

There is no known rule or set of legal definitions relating to the dishonest denials of entry.   Some people away for a year have been hassled.  Europeans who winter here (even older people - obviously retired) have faced the same.  Off/On oil workers also had problems (many don't come any more). 

 

What happens is based on whatever they feel like doing to you for any made-up reason - nothing based on law/order/rules - quite the contrary, in fact.

Edited April 24, 2019 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

On 4/22/2019 at 7:12 PM, Thailand Outcast said:

Yes, but what appropriate documents have the Thai authorities implemented for this sector of tourists?  Zero? 

 

They just let all that money go to Vietnam, Cambodia, Philippines, Bali etc, because, "You come Thailand too much.  What you do here?"  ????

They don't care about the Thais they are hurting with this policy, since Thais are not subject to extortion-schemes by immigration.  All they care about is their corruption-money. 

 

On 4/22/2019 at 9:42 PM, Ian Pickles said:

While I am at it, the Air Asia people were very reasonable through the whole affair, I can not say anything against them at all.  

Yes, they get to fill up empty seats at premium prices.  The question is, are the airline-agents sharing commissions on these last-minute priced tickets with immigration?

 

I do not know if the airline personnel work on commission, but if they do, I would be very surprised if an "arrangement" were not being made - creating an "extra" source of income for immigration which would not as easily show up in the newspapers as shaking-down tourists directly (has, in the past).

[Ian Pickles]

35 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

They don't care about the Thais they are hurting with this policy, since Thais are not subject to extortion-schemes by immigration.  All they care about is their corruption-money. 

 

Yes, they get to fill up empty seats at premium prices.  The question is, are the airline-agents sharing commissions on these last-minute priced tickets with immigration?

 

I do not know if the airline personnel work on commission, but if they do, I would be very surprised if an "arrangement" were not being made - creating an "extra" source of income for immigration which would not as easily show up in the newspapers as shaking-down tourists directly (has, in the past).

You are quite right on the premium price ticket. I paid 5000 Baht for a one way to Phnom Penh. 

[Ian Pickles]

On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 12:26 PM, Ian Pickles said:

You are quite right on the premium price ticket. I paid 5000 Baht for a one way to Phnom Penh. 

Just to close out the topic, should anyone care. I got a 60 day tourist visa in Cambodia and returned through Savarnabhumi today. Minimal issues upon entry, did not have to show onward ticket or cash, go figure. Anyway, thanks for your input guys. And before you get started, all ye trolls, yes I did learn something here so there is no need for slagging.