Why the Chinese are infinitely more important than Western tourists to Thailand

[shackleton]

right I hope this ends people on here trying to justify how important  Western Tourists are to the Thai economy  and who are the biggest spenders overall 

[Lucius verus]

7 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Westerners are a low level, low priority thing of the past.  In 10 years there will be very very few.

Only if Thailand continues to become more expensive & dangerous.

Expats are certainly not coming here in numbers anymore.

Noise is worse than pollution IMHO.

The quality of life has been declining rapidly since the army took over.

Looks like they're not leaving either.

Disaster.

[ThomasThBKK]

8 minutes ago, 0815 said:

Go to one of the big shopping malls (like Central Festival in Chiang Mai) and you will see where their money goes...

Like emquartier? 

 

 

I life nex to it, can't see any rich chinese. 

 

Mostly western, arabs and thai hisos. 

 

Same in thong lor lol

 

Business partner has shops in icon siam, central world and co. Not many chinese customers either... 

[Thaidream]

16 hours ago, Kasane said:

Well, that's another nail in the coffin for low income, bar stool dwellers, old farangs whose days of faking income through false affidavits is coming to a close as Thailand understands that the Chinese are actually bringing in more wealth than the Western expats who have already been priced out of their countries.

You seem to have some type of ageism problem.  Please present your evidence that elderly  long stay  expats have lied about their income; have committed crimes ; and have become a burden to the Thai State. 

 

I also do not know anyone who cannot meet the financial requirements as set currently.  Many of us do not like the bureaucracy of the current police order; nor the fact that our Embassies  refuse to work with Thai Immigration on income verification but we can meet the retirements some of us quite easily.

 

In addition- there is a number of Westerners who plan on leaving Thailand  as they do not want to be placed in a position where following the Immigration law becomes a full time job watching dates and amounts of money in the bank at certain times.  They also have the income but  just don't want to waste their time or energy on the bureaucracy.

 

I have been coming to Thailand for almost 50 years; married to a Thai; and now a long stay expat- I have had every type of Visa there is except the O-X and Residence Permit.  I have never lied about income- always obtained extensions without issue- obtained Embassy Letters with truthful statements.   I know of no one in all the years I have been here who have  falsified anything.

 

The Chinese  have a population of well over a billion people and are within a short plane trip from their country so I don't need to be an expert in travel to figure out that they would come to Thailand as a primary choice.

 

People from the North and South American continent have to travel 20-25 hours to reach Thailand. Moist Americans don't come here as places like mexico; Costa Rica and South America are closer.

 

Europeans are more travel conscious and they have been coming to Thailand for ages. However, Europeans have decided that there are other places they would rather visit for reasons that have been discussed many times before.

 

If you can speak some Thai- ask any Bangkok Hotel Manager;  Taxi Driver or restaurant owner who they  prefer to have as a customer because of their spending patterns and respect for Thai culture.  It won't be the Chinese- as the monies the Chinese spend go to a very limited demographic- mostly affiliated in some way with China.

 

While it is true that an exodus of Westerners will not have a huge impact on the overall Thai  balance of payments- the exodus if it actually occurs will be felt in such places  with large concentration of Westerners such as Chang Mai; Phuket; Pattaya; Bangkok and Udorn.  These type of long stay foreigners will NOT be replaced by long stay Chinese who tend to return home after a few weeks.

 

Instead- what we will see are Chinese investors purchasing Condo's; forming companies to purchase land and reaping profits on turn over; rents; or other types of business- all dedicated to their own countrymen. The majority of these operations will repatriate funds to China and only marginally benefit Thais and those will be already wealthy Thais.

 

Short term players will  welcome the Chinese incursion but the long term strategist will try and win back Western tourism; Western expats and be wary of Chinese expansionism through mass tourism.

 

 

[kevin612]

Because the Chinese come here short time and spend more money 

[fullcave]

Many Europeans prefer to avoid the Chinese hordes so their numbers of visitors to Thailand will only tend to diminish even more. 

[vision]

16 hours ago, otherstuff1957 said:

Unlike Western tourists, they don't usually patronize small, local shops, smaller guesthouses or local restaurants.  Consequently, even though they spend more money, much, if not most of their money goes to foreign companies and their wealthy Thai partners.  A relatively small portion of their spending goes directly to local merchants and local SME businesses. 

 

The tourists that benefit Thai SMEs the most are actually the much-maligned backpackers!

It a fair point but the Chinese pay into the businesses that pay taxes so that even as the backpackers may be helping the general economy to a greater extent they are contributing less to the bureaucracy and its the bureaucrats that make the rules.  :S

[SkyNets]

Hopefully this will fix the street dog problem

[zydeco]

15 hours ago, DLock said:

They come for 1 or 2 weeks, spend more than western tourists, they don't make trouble, and they go home again, all orderly and well dressed.

 

Compare that to the image of western tourists, and you can see why we have become somewhat less desirable.

Do Westerners defecate on the BTS or in the airport waiting lounges? Do Westerners turn the Wats they visit into giant toilets? Do Westerners befoul the beaches with so many people it's standing room only. And do Westerners turn restaurants and cafes into filthy no-go areas with the skeletal food remnants looking like Cannae after Hannibal passed through?

[mercman24]

There is more to the economy than tourism.  tourist might spend more versus the European tourists, they are missing one important fact, they dont to factor in  EX PAT contributions. (those who live here full time, (ok this is about TOURISM) but they never come up with stats as to our input ,into the Thai economy, per year, i bet its a dam sight more than a 2 week spending  Chinese tourist, my spends are well over 1-5 milion baht per year, and dont forget the 400,000 in a Thai bank doing S.F.A. is there are figure for long time ex pats, i have never seen one ??. 

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

There is more to the economy than tourism.  tourist might spend more versus the European tourists, they are missing one important fact, they dont to factor in  EX PAT contributions. (those who live here full time, (ok this is about TOURISM) but they never come up with stats as to our input ,into the Thai economy, per year, i bet its a dam sight more than a 2 week spending  Chinese tourist, my spends are well over 1-5 milion baht per year, and dont forget the 400,000 in a Thai bank doing S.F.A. is there are figure for long time ex pats, i have never seen one ??. 

Too small to record when considering 80 million Chinese at 2 weeks each. 

[SymS]

17 hours ago, NotYourBusiness said:

Another humbling graphic (only 20 years away):

 

That looks like a PPP GPD chart instead of a nominal GDP chart. As of 2018 the US GPD is still fairly higher than the Chinese GDP.

The "expert" who has drawn that chart to 2040 has probably not looked at the awful demographics of China. Growth will slow dramatically.

[Duck J Butters]

16 hours ago, Bang Bang said:

The smart move is to accept that it will be China's world soon that the rest of us will be living in. And prepare accordingly.

 

A few phrases like

How are you? Yes, master. No, master. As you desire.

in Mandarin should be good.

 

But, seriously, I walk by King Power on Soi Rangam, which is Chinese tourists ground 0, every day and some of their women are majorly bangable. Prying them loose from their tour group is another matter but that's where language skills would help.

Exactly, there is massive money to be made off the Chinese here as a foreigner with a business.

 

I can personally attest to witnessing this change as I and my wife have several stem cell and anti-aging clinics throughout Thailand. Europeans come to Thailand still looking for Dollar Store prices and 50 cent beers like Thailand is still some third world dump that they heard about after watching the movie The Beach with Leonardo Di Caprio.

 

While the Chinese come to Thailand and are dropping $50k USD on stem cell treatment like it’s water to waste and another $50k on fun after the stem cell because they are now feeling superhuman.

 

The idea of a Westerner dropping $50k USD on anti-aging is laughable at best. I’d be hard pressed to get any American or European friends ( rich by Western standards ) to spend $3k USD which is my wife’s absolute minimum discounted price for stem cell treatment.

 

Bottom line is we just aren’t rich enough anymore ( well, I am, all thanks to Chinese tourists )  to compete with the Chinese tourist and we look poor and stingy in comparison. So the Thais have lost interest in us.

 

But if you have business in Thailand, you learn to love the Chinese tourist. China is building hi-speed rails that will connect China and Thailand and well, Thailand’s projection of 100 million tourists by 2030 is probably an underestimate. I would expect closer to 300 million tourists / year. 

 

The world is getting smaller and smaller thanks to technology ( singularity by 20240 ) and we are just at the very beginning of the gold rush that is Southeast Asia. Getting set up in Southeast Asia right now is like setting up shop during the California Gold Rush. You’re gonna get stupid rich no matter what business you’re in: We haven’t  seen anything yet my friend. There is stupid money to be made in Thailand and Asia in general. Stupid money. Like one of my wife’s Chinese patients just donated his yacht in Phuket to her clinic. Why? Because he doesn’t use it and was thankful that she made him feel younger and better. The yacht is worth well over 30 million baht but that was nothing for this guy. Chump change.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Duck J Butters

[JimP]

The article neglects to state they spit more, talk louder, and defecate more in public than Western tourist, too!

Edited April 25, 2019 by JimP

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, thailand49 said:

Too old to worry about it.  It makes no difference Chinese been here for a while no matter what they spend it isn't going to be used to better the lives of the average Thai s who are still the majority just more money in the pockets for their leaders. 

In Pattaya, you see a lot of highways being  built toll booth everywhere but when it rains the place still floods, anyone sees any new infrastructure like water treatment plants, any new garbage facilities, or even more money for the local schools so the poorest of the poor can go for free how about mass transit, better service at local government hospital. 

No matter how many Chinese bring in there will always be a bar stool for the expat just the beer will be more expensive whether it warrants it or not?

The poorest of the poor Thais go to school for free.  https://qz.com/1393992/how-thailands-massive-infrastructure-project-will-create-asias-next-big-innovation-hub/

[dallen52]

The Wong tour groups and the like don't allow the Chinese to spend anything other than at the pre selected venues and stores.

You can see them at the airport collecting all their spending money and where to go, what to do, from their group tour guide. 

Before being whisked away in one of the thousands of buses we all see.

Some tours allow the folks one free night.

All gratuities are taken care of by the tour group leaders. 

And you guessed it,  they rarely get passed on.

It's not uncommon for the night off crowd to dine locally and spend several thousand baht.

But leave a ten baht tip.

 

The average Thai on the street gains little from this mass influx.

[Sonhia]

Following on from earlier, it's those fat, lazy farang that lie,  sit in bars all day long that help Thai bar girl prostitutes pay for their famalies, help contribute to local commerce plus GDP, that help support Thais far more so than Chinese do, buy vehicles, property and soooooo on. 

 

So good luck to them

 

[dallen52]

13 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

The poorest of the poor Thais go to school for free.  https://qz.com/1393992/how-thailands-massive-infrastructure-project-will-create-asias-next-big-innovation-hub/

I've just forked out 13 grand, 10 for fees and 3 for uniform and books.

For a 16 year old poorest of the poor.

It would have been 50,000 if she wasn't in the top five academic performances for her locality. 

Maybe free to a certain point or age.

 

I'm not going to deprive her of a chance for an education. 

She is a bright kid.

Her mother was working building sites at age 12, to help support the family. 

Edited April 25, 2019 by dallen52

[Stoker58]

It’s not a good omen for Thai freedom. China wants obedient client states in its region, not liberal democracies.

[Bowring]

On the other side of the coin, the Chinese market only needs one order from Beijing and 40 million tourists will immediately relocate to other destinations. The slightest incident or accident would be enough to trigger such a reaction.

[Ulic]

A ridiculous article which brings liars, dammed liars, and those that quote statistics squarely into play. They ignore the fact that the average Chinese tourist stays 4 days while western tourists stay for an average of 3 weeks. The Chinese tourists are on package tours with the profit left at home. While the question is posed to Chinese tourists "how much do you spend per day" the real question should be, how much of that money stays in Thailand. Of course, retired expats whether staying on the 400/800 thousand yearly budget spend the most in Thailand. Yes, they have the lowest daily spend but the highest total spend which is much more important to the economy of Thailand. They smooth out the low-high season bumps, support the construction industry by buying and renting apartments, and support a whole network of Thai families. The Thai government really needs to stop listening to the TAT statistics which are twisted to spin a story of "look how well we are doing". Wake up and smell the coffee. Once you have driven away the western tourists and expat retirees with high prices, poor service, pollution, sewage, and garbage everywhere, silly hoop jumping visa regulations, they will be unlikely to return.  Vietnam will eat Thailands lunch in 5-10 years is my prediction.  

[holy cow cm]

It's the current regime that has fully turned the tables and put the thumbs up to their noses on Westerners and EU folk. But we are all going to have to deal with the Chinese in almost every country as the inevitable is that they are moving in everywhere. The USA is atrocious for how many now. Stupid USA! So on that said, my eldest daughter speaks and writes Chinese, my last kid being my daughter is taking Chinese, so once ready I will back them to make multiple linked businesses and then they can take the Chinese tourists money and still live a good life without them involved on the offside. Just because they are here in droves doesn't mean it really interacts in your personal life.

[Thaidream]

8 minutes ago, Duck J Butters said:

I can personally attest to witnessing this change as I and my wife have several stem cell and anti-aging clinics throughout Thailand. Europeans come to Thailand still looking for Dollar Store prices and 50 cent beers like Thailand is still some third world dump that they heard about after watching the movie The Beach with Leonardo Di Caprio.

 

While the Chinese come to Thailand and are dropping $50k USD on stem cell treatment like it’s water to waste and another $50k on fun after the stem cell because they are now feeling superhuman.

 

The idea of a Westerner dropping $50k USD on anti-aging is laughable at best. I’d be hard pressed to get any American or European friends ( rich by Western standards ) to spend $3k USD which is my wife’s absolute minimum discounted price for stem cell treatment.

 

Bottom line is we just aren’t rich enough anymore ( well, I am, all thanks to Chinese tourists )  to compete with the Chinese tourist and we look poor and stingy in comparison. So the Thais have lost interest in us.

 

But if you have business in Thailand, you learn to love the Chinese tourist. China is building hi-speed rails that will connect China and Thailand and well, Thailand’s projection of 100 million tourists by 2030 is probably an underestimate. I would expect closer to 300 million tourists / year. 

 

The world is getting smaller and smaller thanks to technology ( singularity by 20240 ) and we are just at the very beginning of the gold rush that is Southeast Asia. Getting set up in Southeast Asia right now is like setting up shop during the California Gold Rush. You’re gonna get stupid rich no matter what business you’re in: We haven’t  seen anything yet my friend. There is stupid money to be made in Thailand and Asia in general. Stupid money. Like one of my wife’s Chinese patients just donated his yacht in Phuket to her clinic. Why? Because he doesn’t use it and was thankful that she made him feel younger and better. The yacht is worth well over 30 million baht but that was nothing for this guy. Chump change.

You are speaking of a very small niche market at the moment- there are not many wealthy people per capita in China compared to the West.

 

I certainly would not hitch my  income to a star such as China for several reasons-

1.  Chinese economy is starting to slow down- and eventually will fall into recession as the economy is over leveraged

2.   Wealthy Chinese will not come to Asia in the future because they can get more bang for their money in the US and Europe. I am not speaking about your business set but in general to include  medical care.

3.  the Chinese Government is  Communist and State Controlled and it's mission is to simply control the resources of other states so it can maintain power.  It's goal is to gain land to grow  crops; establish  areas where fuel can be obtained to power its industrial and military growth. It won't succeed.

4.  China is not a country which endears itself to other populations due to it's lack of understanding local customs and it's lack of  manners-  Eventually the welcome wears off.

5.  China and the US are destined to become entangled in a war most likely over China's attempt to recover Taiwan and China's encroachment into the South China Sea. America will win and the Chinese economy will be destroyed.  

6.  Thailand will at some point move away from China once it realizes that it's sovereignty and it's culture is threatened. In addition- with the large scale Japanese investment in Thailand- the Thais cannot risk losing this source of investment and the Japanese see china as a Worldwide threat.

 

I do not share your enthusiasm for the Chinese because I still believe the major player in South East Asia will be the Japanese; The US; Australia and  Europe.

[onera1961]

17 hours ago, otherstuff1957 said:

A relatively small portion of their spending goes directly to local merchants and local SME businesses. 

Local merchants and street vendors in an informal economy don't pay taxes. They will spend their money boozing and the money will go to Chang Corporation. So the money is still going to big corporations.  

[The Deerhunter]

18 hours ago, seajae said:

looks like this doesnt take in the zero dollar tours, all that money is spent in chinese shops/businesses

 

I agree.  Wonder how they cherry picked that figure.  No, I haven't read the full report yet but I suspect the figures are wrong for tour parties at least.

 

What percentage of Chinese tourists are in controlled tour parties and what percentage are travelling as independents, staying and shopping (when and where) they like?  Interesting figures, to say the least!!!!!!

[marcusarelus]

29 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

I've just forked out 13 grand, 10 for fees and 3 for uniform and books.

For a 16 year old poorest of the poor.

It would have been 50,000 if she wasn't in the top five academic performances for her locality. 

Maybe free to a certain point or age.

 

I'm not going to deprive her of a chance for an education. 

She is a bright kid.

Her mother was working building sites at age 12, to help support the family. 

Thai free education I believe stops at 15 years of age.  Uniforms and supplies are handed down from one child to the next. 

[Ridler]

I believe it's nearly there. The place where I work used to bring in a French language tutor (don't ask why) twice weekly but now she's been replaced by a Chinese woman.

Compare Chinese to French, Chinese and English are both growing, French is a dying language. Not growing at all

[ianezy0]

16 hours ago, Benroon said:

I can honestly say in all the years I've either been visiting or living here I have never had a Chinese gawp at me ? - Bizarre !

That’s because he forgot to add that you also had to be good looking!

[Kasane]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

You seem to have some type of ageism problem.  Please present your evidence that elderly  long stay  expats have lied about their income; have committed crimes ; and have become a burden to the Thai State. 

 

I also do not know anyone who cannot meet the financial requirements as set currently.  Many of us do not like the bureaucracy of the current police order; nor the fact that our Embassies  refuse to work with Thai Immigration on income verification but we can meet the retirements some of us quite easily.

 

In addition- there is a number of Westerners who plan on leaving Thailand  as they do not want to be placed in a position where following the Immigration law becomes a full time job watching dates and amounts of money in the bank at certain times.  They also have the income but  just don't want to waste their time or energy on the bureaucracy.

 

I have been coming to Thailand for almost 50 years; married to a Thai; and now a long stay expat- I have had every type of Visa there is except the O-X and Residence Permit.  I have never lied about income- always obtained extensions without issue- obtained Embassy Letters with truthful statements.   I know of no one in all the years I have been here who have  falsified anything.

 

The Chinese  have a population of well over a billion people and are within a short plane trip from their country so I don't need to be an expert in travel to figure out that they would come to Thailand as a primary choice.

 

People from the North and South American continent have to travel 20-25 hours to reach Thailand. Moist Americans don't come here as places like mexico; Costa Rica and South America are closer.

 

Europeans are more travel conscious and they have been coming to Thailand for ages. However, Europeans have decided that there are other places they would rather visit for reasons that have been discussed many times before.

 

If you can speak some Thai- ask any Bangkok Hotel Manager;  Taxi Driver or restaurant owner who they  prefer to have as a customer because of their spending patterns and respect for Thai culture.  It won't be the Chinese- as the monies the Chinese spend go to a very limited demographic- mostly affiliated in some way with China.

 

While it is true that an exodus of Westerners will not have a huge impact on the overall Thai  balance of payments- the exodus if it actually occurs will be felt in such places  with large concentration of Westerners such as Chang Mai; Phuket; Pattaya; Bangkok and Udorn.  These type of long stay foreigners will NOT be replaced by long stay Chinese who tend to return home after a few weeks.

 

Instead- what we will see are Chinese investors purchasing Condo's; forming companies to purchase land and reaping profits on turn over; rents; or other types of business- all dedicated to their own countrymen. The majority of these operations will repatriate funds to China and only marginally benefit Thais and those will be already wealthy Thais.

 

Short term players will  welcome the Chinese incursion but the long term strategist will try and win back Western tourism; Western expats and be wary of Chinese expansionism through mass tourism.

 

 

Low income, bar stool dwellers, old farangs whose days of faking income through false affidavits. Don't take it personally. But you can google for the answers that you are seeking.

[Olmate]

4 minutes ago, Kasane said:

Low income, bar stool dwellers, old farangs whose days of faking income through false affidavits. Don't take it personally. But you can google for the answers that you are seeking.

What’s google say about ????