BK Bank example of Monthly Income for Retirement Extension

[sfokevin]

A Chiang Mai visa agent just recently posted this as an example of a bank letter that Chiang Mai Immigration would accept for purposes of extending visa using the 65k monthly bank transfer method... It is very interesting that the letter from the bank specifically states it is “Monthly Pension Transfer”... I wonder how BK Bank determines it was a pension transfer - I doubt this is a government pension.. Most likely a private pension (Or was this just added by the bank at the account holders request)... Given the account holders transfer amounts... My guess the bank would be most accommodating to him/her... 

 

[sfokevin]

I forgot to include the link of where it’s from...

They are a basic fast rack visa service...

Not dealing in special visa dealing...

 

[Maestro]

Thank you, sgkevin, for posting this example of a bank letter and the information source.

[gk10002000]

4 hours ago, sfokevin said:

I forgot to include the link of where it’s from...

They are a basic fast rack visa service...

Not dealing in special visa dealing...

 

So now they want proof of 12 months of contiguous transfers?  I can certainly do that, assuming I am willing to pay the fees  to do so, but since my income comes from dividends and interest, I would have to set up a "buffer account", transfer my dividends and interest into that, and then transfer the 65 baht from that.  Again, fairly easy for me to do on my USA end.  Now, the question is, will that be sufficient for the Thailand end?  My monies are NOT from a pension. 

[Maestro]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

...Now, the question is, will that be sufficient for the Thailand end?  My monies are NOT from a pension.

It depends on the immigration official to whom you summit your application.

[Thailand]

6 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

So now they want proof of 12 months of contiguous transfers?  I can certainly do that, assuming I am willing to pay the fees  to do so, but since my income comes from dividends and interest, I would have to set up a "buffer account", transfer my dividends and interest into that, and then transfer the 65 baht from that.  Again, fairly easy for me to do on my USA end.  Now, the question is, will that be sufficient for the Thailand end?  My monies are NOT from a pension. 

"- Your monthly pension/income must be transfer to Thai Bank Account no less than"

 

It says pension/income, not just pension.

[Thailand]

Based on that from Tian, who are Very close to immigration, leniency is out of the window.

I was going with 12 months of pension income and 6 months of additional income so would be short of 6 months additional income and 800K total.

 

[Thailand]

Bangkok Bank have given me copies of credit notes for a pension credit and an income credit. Each of them shows amounts and source of funds being overseas and specific senders including UK gov pension as the sender on one credit note.And then the amount actually deposited to my bank book after intermediary bank charges.

However, because they are showing as Bahtnet in my bank book as they enter via intermediary banks Bangkok Bank say they will not provide a letter saying the pension/ income are transfers from overseas.

Despite the credit notes showing source and final destination funds Bangkok Bank say  I have to contact the intermediary banks to get them to provide letters of confirmation the funds are from overseas!

Crazy.

[bkk6060]

5 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Bangkok Bank have given me copies of credit notes for a pension credit and an income credit. Each of them shows amounts and source of funds being overseas and specific senders including UK gov pension as the sender on one credit note.And then the amount actually deposited to my bank book after intermediary bank charges.

However, because they are showing as Bahtnet in my bank book as they enter via intermediary banks Bangkok Bank say they will not provide a letter saying the pension/ income are transfers from overseas.

Despite the credit notes showing source and final destination funds Bangkok Bank say  I have to contact the intermediary banks to get them to provide letters of confirmation the funds are from overseas!

Crazy.

?

I transfer from a US bank to BKK bank and it always says "international transfer".

This has been sufficient for immigration.

[johnmell]

Transfers i have made from HSBC in the UK To Bangkok bank via Swift, are shown on bank statement and bankbook, as bahtnet.

Anybody suggest how i get them shown as a foreign transfer.

Possibly use Transferwise?

[Spidey]

7 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

So now they want proof of 12 months of contiguous transfers?  I can certainly do that, assuming I am willing to pay the fees  to do so, but since my income comes from dividends and interest, I would have to set up a "buffer account", transfer my dividends and interest into that, and then transfer the 65 baht from that.  Again, fairly easy for me to do on my USA end.  Now, the question is, will that be sufficient for the Thailand end?  My monies are NOT from a pension. 

Jomtien Immigration recently announced that the evidence that they would require of this is that the monthly transfers were made on a similar date. They indicated that a 9 day spread in the dates would be acceptable.

 

08:49

 

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Spidey

[mtls2005]

13 hours ago, sfokevin said:

It is very interesting that the letter from the bank specifically states it is “Monthly Pension Transfer”... I wonder how BK Bank determines it was a pension transfer

 

The letter posted here simply has the "Other" box checked, into which one could ask BBL to type ANYTHING. My guess on that letter, and the account-holder, is that they were attempting to demonstrate qualifying transfers and perhaps, build up an 800,000 kitty?

 

It would be interesting to know the lead-time required to generate this letter? And how short the date needs to be?

 

FWIW, other members here have posted similar BBL letters which have been used successfully to renew ext stay/ret at Div 1/CW anyway. Often these letters are accompanied with the referenced Credit Advice/Receipts for each transfer listed. (Some people also offer up detailed, official/stamped statements. And a same-day "ownership" letter seems to be a requirement.)

 

Other similar letters have had top-most box checked (funds transferred in from abroad, is a rough translation - this may have been used in the past to prove the acceptable provenance of funds for a condo purchase).

 

 

There have been posts, again Div 1/CW showing leniency this year, as was directed/suggested, with as few as three (3) (Jan, Feb and Mar) qualifying foreign transfers. Some other offices appear to be less, or even not, lenient.

 

 

[jesimps]

1 hour ago, Thailand said:

Bangkok Bank have given me copies of credit notes for a pension credit and an income credit. Each of them shows amounts and source of funds being overseas and specific senders including UK gov pension as the sender on one credit note.And then the amount actually deposited to my bank book after intermediary bank charges.

However, because they are showing as Bahtnet in my bank book as they enter via intermediary banks Bangkok Bank say they will not provide a letter saying the pension/ income are transfers from overseas.

Despite the credit notes showing source and final destination funds Bangkok Bank say  I have to contact the intermediary banks to get them to provide letters of confirmation the funds are from overseas!

Crazy.

Which again should bring it home to the TI fanboys on here, it isn't that people can't afford to abide by the new rules, it's more due the fact that they're finding it difficult to prove their earnings to TI's satisfaction. I myself only have international transfer proof from January. Previously my transfers came via another bank and were recorded as domestic transfers. Therefore, until I see examples of Jomtien's reaction to "leniency" I'm planning to go the lump sum marriage extension route for the first time in 12 years. 

[vukovar77]

8 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

So now they want proof of 12 months of contiguous transfers?  I can certainly do that, assuming I am willing to pay the fees  to do so, but since my income comes from dividends and interest, I would have to set up a "buffer account", transfer my dividends and interest into that, and then transfer the 65 baht from that.  Again, fairly easy for me to do on my USA end.  Now, the question is, will that be sufficient for the Thailand end?  My monies are NOT from a pension. 

Well,maybe they will consider that as a pension.Problem about this can  be taxation on a pension here in Thailand if there is not agreement about exempt double taxation between Your country and Thailand???Need to check out all.It is easy to check out on internet.

[stephenterry]

1 hour ago, johnmell said:

Transfers i have made from HSBC in the UK To Bangkok bank via Swift, are shown on bank statement and bankbook, as bahtnet.

Anybody suggest how i get them shown as a foreign transfer.

Possibly use Transferwise?

Yes, funds coming in from UK using Transferwise are registered by BkB bankbook as FTT (Foreign Telegraphic Transfer). You'll also get a better rate exchange rate and no BKK fee.  

[lopburi3]

12 minutes ago, jesimps said:

it's more due the fact that they're finding it difficult to prove their earnings to TI's satisfaction. I myself only have international transfer proof from January.

Actually we do not seem to have a clear set of rules - and Banks have no clarification - suspect most do not have a clue what is required to be written; much less what the signer will require to do so.  

 

1.  Account - can it be joint with Thai wife?

2.  Transfer - what proof of origin required? 

3.  Can supporting documents be presented to immigration if appears a local transfer to bank?

4.  Time of transfer - required same time each month as recent report?

5.  Time of letter from bank?  Appears year report must be obtained from Hqs so another letter of account ownership also required same day?

 

Am sure many other questions remained unanswered or appear to have various answers.  

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, johnmell said:

Transfers i have made from HSBC in the UK To Bangkok bank via Swift, are shown on bank statement and bankbook, as bahtnet.

Anybody suggest how i get them shown as a foreign transfer.

Possibly use Transferwise?

Transfers that I have made via SWIFT from Halifax to Bangkok Bank, have all shown up as FTT (foreign transfers).

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, stephenterry said:

Yes, funds coming in from UK using Transferwise are registered by BkB bankbook as FTT (Foreign Telegraphic Transfer). You'll also get a better rate exchange rate and no BKK fee.  

I have had 1 out of 3 not register as FTT, when arriving at Bangkok Bank. That transfer was sent via TMB. There has been a lost of posts wrt this and apparently a lot of communication with Transferwise to try and ensure they use Bangkok Bank to clear transfers ultimately destined there. (From adding a comment in the transfer to emailing TW requesting this). I am not sure where the status currently is on this. 

[WeekendRaider]

6 hours ago, Maestro said:

It depends on the immigration official to whom you summit your application.

if it is a distribution from any type of USA IRA arrangement, it is pension income by any definition.  i.e. a 1099-R, the R stands for pension income.  if it applies.   Thailand may have a different definition, but that would be really really off base and pretty nutty as well.  almost all pensions now are like that, unless you were police or other government in which case, in conversation, those are actually "entitlements" now.... because we all voted for deficit spending and we knew all along those old law pensions are quite questionable now.  even Social Security to some degree shares this risk, especially of a lower US dollar in the future as a result.  keep hedged as much as possible in regional currencies!  yes???????

Edited May 2, 2019 by WeekendRaider

[jesimps]

3 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Actually we do not seem to have a clear set of rules - and Banks have no clarification - suspect most do not have a clue what is required to be written; much less what the signer will require to do so.  

 

1.  Account - can it be joint with Thai wife?

2.  Transfer - what proof of origin required? 

3.  Can supporting documents be presented to immigration if appears a local transfer to bank?

4.  Time of transfer - required same time each month as recent report?

5.  Time of letter from bank?  Appears year report must be obtained from Hqs so another letter of account ownership also required same day?

 

Am sure many other questions remained unanswered or appear to have various answers.  

All of those are concerns too if applicable to the applicant.

[Thailand]

1 hour ago, johnmell said:

Transfers i have made from HSBC in the UK To Bangkok bank via Swift, are shown on bank statement and bankbook, as bahtnet.

Anybody suggest how i get them shown as a foreign transfer.

Possibly use Transferwise?

Are the transfers initiated in Thai baht or a foreign currency? 

 

As I mentioned earlier, despite having credit notes from Bangkok Bank showing source and destination, the funds are in Thai baht and go through intermediary banks and show as Bahtnet. According to BB I have to contact the intermediary banks to get confirmation that 18 different transfers are from overseas.????

[mtls2005]

4 minutes ago, vukovar77 said:

Well,maybe they will consider that as a pension.

 

As has been often mentioned here hundreds of times, the "Orders" say, in Thai: "Pension, or other income". 

 

Yes, Immigration can/may ask for supporting documentation but I seriously doubt that that might be looking for much more than a source of the transfer truly being outside of Thailand. Expecting Thai IOs to dig through reams of information, and research the long-term viability various foreign pension (private, self-funded, government, etc.) vehicles (some of which are paid one-time annually) is ludicrous.

 

 

 

 

[jesimps]

4 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I have had 1 out of 3 not register as FTT, when arriving at Bangkok Bank. That transfer was sent via TMB. There has been a lost of posts wrt this and apparently a lot of communication with Transferwise to try and ensure they use Bangkok Bank to clear transfers ultimately destined there. (From adding a comment in the transfer to emailing TW requesting this). I am not sure where the status currently is on this. 

My December TW transfer was sent via TMB, the last four have been sent direct to BBL so maybe TW have sorted it out. It pays to keep a close eye on statements.

[mtls2005]

10 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

1.  Account - can it be joint with Thai wife?

2.  Transfer - what proof of origin required? 

3.  Can supporting documents be presented to immigration if appears a local transfer to bank?

4.  Time of transfer - required same time each month as recent report?

5.  Time of letter from bank?  Appears year report must be obtained from Hqs so another letter of account ownership also required same day?

 

My stab...

 

1.) No

2.) From outside of Thailand - detail shown on Credit Advice/Receipts

3.) Perhaps, if the associated CA/Rs match and indicate a source outside of Thailand

4.) A single monthly qualifying transfer consistently in the same 7-14 day window might be best?

5.) Unclear here. Expect the documents showing qualifying foreign transfers might be best dated within 7 days. The same-day ownership letter would, dare I say it, be dated the day of the application.

 

 

[jesimps]

11 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Transfers that I have made via SWIFT from Halifax to Bangkok Bank, have all shown up as FTT (foreign transfers).

I can confirm that my SWIFT transfers from the UK showed up here as FTT, but they were expensive which was why I switched to TransferWise.

[gk10002000]

9 minutes ago, WeekendRaider said:

if it is a distribution from any type of USA IRA arrangement, it is pension income by any definition.  i.e. a 1099-R, the R stands for pension income.  if it applies.   Thailand may have a different definition, but that would be really really off base and pretty nutty as well.  almost all pensions now are like that, unless you were police or other government in which case, in conversation, those are actually "entitlements" now.... because we all voted for deficit spending and we knew all along those old law pensions are quite questionable now.  even Social Security to some degree shares this risk, especially of a lower US dollar in the future as a result.  keep hedged as much as possible in regional currencies!  yes???????

No, that is NOT pension income by definition.  It is gross income by IRS definition.  One could simply be spending down a lump sum.  Don't confuse IRS terms with what I am sure Thais really expected as income from a pension that is in general considered sustainable and reasonably constant.  From the IRS "Form 1099-R, Distributions From Pensions, Annuities, Retirement or Profit-Sharing Plans, IRAs, Insurance Contracts, etc".   A distribution does not necessarily mean one has steady income from a pension.  Most Thais understand pension and monthly retirement plans.  Few would grasp the idea of having steady dividends from holdings inside the IRA which one then distributes out.  There is a big difference in distributing steady income stream, from distributing a lump sum one is drawing down.  I think the Thais won't get it in general

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, jesimps said:

I can confirm that my SWIFT transfers from the UK showed up here as FTT, but they were expensive which was why I switched to TransferWise.

As far as SWIFT transfers are concerned, one would expect every single one to have the same result to and from the same bank. Either it will always show up as FTT, or if you do not use a clearing bank or whatever other reason, some other bank gets involved, then there is a chance of another charge and it arriving at the Thai bank looking like a domestic transfer, consistently. 

The ambiguity comes in with Transferwise. It sure works out better financially though.

Edited May 2, 2019 by jacko45k

[stephenterry]

8 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Are the transfers initiated in Thai baht or a foreign currency? 

 

As I mentioned earlier, despite having credit notes from Bangkok Bank showing source and destination, the funds are in Thai baht and go through intermediary banks and show as Bahtnet. According to BB I have to contact the intermediary banks to get confirmation that 18 different transfers are from overseas.????

My last 8 transactions using Transferwise were all recorded as FTT.  If you're using a UK commercial bank, it is important to use the BKK account code 9002002000 (look up the details on their website) that ensures that sterling is transferred to BKK London - and not converted there into baht - so that sterling is sent to BKK Bangkok. There they will covert sterling to Thai baht and credit your account using the FTT code.

 

 

[mtls2005]

2 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

what I am sure Thais really expected as income from a pension that is in general considered sustainable and reasonably constant. 

 

What you are sure of hardly matters.

 

Thai Imm. is looking for "pension, or other income" in the form of past qualifying transfers, or a lump-sum. Period.

 

For that, they grant an extension of stay of 12 months. Period.

 

 

 

 

 

[Spidey]

Just now, jesimps said:

I can confirm that my SWIFT transfers from the UK showed up here as FTT, but they were expensive which was why I switched to TransferWise.

The Halifax charges me £9.50 for international transfers. Pretty much the same as TransferWise. I send the money in GBP and get a very similar exchange rate to TransferWise. I have heard reports that TransferWise transfers don't always show up as international transfers, whereas my transfers from Halifax have always shown up as FTT.

 

I did consider TransferWise but as the costs are very similar, I would prefer to transfer my monies directly from my bank in the UK to my bank in Thailand, without using an intermediary.